Professional Cycling For the Fans - Gatlin test Positive (athletics)

With all the talk of doping in the cycling circles, I read the following article on Eurosport.
Justin Gatlin 100m Olympic gold medallist and equal world record holder, 9.77secs.
Gatlin tested positive in an event back in April, so wondering how this is comparing in the news in the USA in comparison to Flandis. Has it even made the news etc. etc.

http://www.eurosport.com/home/pages/V4/L0/S18/E6359/sport_Lng0_Spo18_Evt6359_Sto634844.shtml

Watch this...
Gatlin, who is black, will be vilified by the American public and media. Landis, who is white, will be given the benefit of the doubt and defended using every excuse known to science.

Just look at Barry Bonds, should I remind you that he is also black? Barry is assumed guilty at every turn. Compare to Lance Armstrong, who is white, who is given the benefit of the doubt and vociferously defended no matter how many more credible witnesses, testimony, or tests show his guilt.

the point here is that american athletes seem to keep cropping up for drug cheating...is it simply because there is a higher standard of testing being done in USA or is it a problem with how athletes are educated and a 'culture' of acceptance of taking drugs?

the point here is that american athletes seem to keep cropping up for drug cheating...is it simply because there is a higher standard of testing being done in USA or is it a problem with how athletes are educated and a 'culture' of acceptance of taking drugs?

Gatlin didn't test positive in the USA. It was a test in Europe. One thing of note about Gatlin, he tested positive while in college as well. He received a 2 year ban at that time. He's looking at a life ban this go around. Gatlin's coach, has coached 10 different atheletes who have been banned in the past.

Bonds has a couple of things going against him. He's never been liked by the media. That goes back long before he was in the hunt of the homerun title. He's always been antagonstic towards the media and they return the sentiments towards him. Now that he's chasing Aaron, they relish at the opportunity to tear him down. If Bonds wasn't looking at the homerun title and generally hated by the media, then he wouldn't be taking so much grief. He'd be getting it, but not nearly as much. Of course, the media seldom ever mentions that during the time of the Balco investigation, taking steriods and other performance enhancing drugs weren't even against the rules in Major League Baseball. That's a lot of hoopla for something that wasn't even violation of rules.

Gatlin will barely blip the media here. Just like the rest of the American track stars that were linked to the Balco investigation. Take Marion Jones. Her ex-husband was linked to Balco, has tested positive, and has been banned. The father of her child, Tim Montgomery, was caught up in Balco, has tested positive, and has been banned. Marion was linked to Balco but has yet to test positive to anything. Most people aren't even aware of it. The average sports fan probabaly doesn't even realize that the Balco investigation started off as a track and field scandal. Bonds and Giambi just happened to be clients as well.

Of course if you ask any of these athletes, none of them ever took anything to enhance their performance. They have no idea what happened.:rolleyes:

I read that as well this morning. And what I was wondering is this: Gatlin tested positive for testosterone also but it appears that the test was different than the one Floyd had. Unless I'm reading this wrong, this test seems like it would be able to tell for sure whether the testosterone was originating from the athlete's natural body processes or from an outside source. Here's the quote... and why don't they do this one of Floyd? Wouldn't that test actually be more definitive?

QUOTE: (the cyclist in question is of course FL)
<<The test on the cyclist measured the ratio of testosterone to epitestosterone in his system and found an imbalance. Gatlin's test was different. Called a carbon-isotope ratio test, it is essentially a test that looks only at testosterone, not epitestosterone, and can determine whether the testosterone in a person's system is natural or unnatural. The results of both athletes' tests point to the same type of violation of illegal-substance policy.
In his statement, Gatlin said he tested positive for "testosterone or its precursors." "Precursors" is another term for anabolic steroids.>>

Anybody?

Watch this...
Gatlin, who is black, will be vilified by the American public and media. Landis, who is white, will be given the benefit of the doubt and defended using every excuse known to science.

Just look at Barry Bonds, should I remind you that he is also black? Barry is assumed guilty at every turn. Compare to Lance Armstrong, who is white, who is given the benefit of the doubt and vociferously defended no matter how many more credible witnesses, testimony, or tests show his guilt.


It's a heinous plot, perpetrated by THE MAN, to keep the brother down!

Watch this...
Gatlin, who is black, will be vilified by the American public and media. Landis, who is white, will be given the benefit of the doubt and defended using every excuse known to science.

Just look at Barry Bonds, should I remind you that he is also black? Barry is assumed guilty at every turn. Compare to Lance Armstrong, who is white, who is given the benefit of the doubt and vociferously defended no matter how many more credible witnesses, testimony, or tests show his guilt.

The only actual facts that can be gleaned from your post are that Landis is white and Bonds is black. Perhaps you should post some verifiable examples of your claims.

I read that as well this morning. And what I was wondering is this: Gatlin tested positive for testosterone also but it appears that the test was different than the one Floyd had. Unless I'm reading this wrong, this test seems like it would be able to tell for sure whether the testosterone was originating from the athlete's natural body processes or from an outside source. Here's the quote... and why don't they do this one of Floyd? Wouldn't that test actually be more definitive?

QUOTE: (the cyclist in question is of course FL)
<<The test on the cyclist measured the ratio of testosterone to epitestosterone in his system and found an imbalance. Gatlin's test was different. Called a carbon-isotope ratio test, it is essentially a test that looks only at testosterone, not epitestosterone, and can determine whether the testosterone in a person's system is natural or unnatural. The results of both athletes' tests point to the same type of violation of illegal-substance policy.
In his statement, Gatlin said he tested positive for "testosterone or its precursors." "Precursors" is another term for anabolic steroids.>>

Anybody?

I'm not a biochemist or doctor. But here's an attempt at explaining it for you...

A cyclist wouldn't necessarily take steroids. While track sprinter would definitely benifit from certain types of steroids. You have to remember that anyone doping and/or taking other performance enhancing drugs is going to do or take anything possible not to test positive. The specific drug might not show up on a test because of masking agents. The tests don't necessarily look for the specific drug. The tests will look for unusual variables, like high levels of testosterone(or ratios in Landis' case), that will indicate that the subject has been doping/juicing.

So basically different sports, different types of cheating, different testing process.

MaryAnn,

In the Landis situation the IRMS is the second test and either will or won't be the "smoking gun." (Some French media are reporting that Landis' has also failed this test. I don't know but I thought that test wasn't administered to A samples.)

The test that we know Landis has trouble with is not proof of doping in and of itself but a suspicious sign that calls for the more sophisticated IRMS test. If Gatlin or Landis fail(ed) the IRMS they're in trouble.

My guess is that Gatlin had the same initial test as Landis but confidentiality was maintained until the positive on the IRMS came out. That's the way it's supposed to happen anyways.

Btw Bonds is pretty hard to defend except by pointing out, as has been, that baseball turned a blind eye to steroids until the home run situation became ridiculous. No way to know of course but if the white Mark McGwire were still playing he'd be catching an awful lot of heat too. He'll be eligible for Hall of Fame induction soon, that'll be interesting.

Btw Bonds is pretty hard to defend except by pointing out, as has been, that baseball turned a blind eye to steroids until the home run situation became ridiculous. No way to know of course but if the white Mark McGwire were still playing he'd be catching an awful lot of heat too. He'll be eligible for Hall of Fame induction soon, that'll be interesting.

The only thing that really bothers me about the heat that Bonds is getting is that nobody else is getting any. There were a whole lot of players juicing. But the general perception is that Bonds is the only one that was. There is no way to know who was or wasn't. Everyone likes to point out the muscle gain by Bonds. But take a look a Mark McGwire when came up with Oakland versus his days in St. Louis. Huge difference. The only reason Bonds came up is because of his link to Balco through his trainer.

Incidently, since baseball started testing, pitchers have been caught more than position players juicing. Years ago, the baseball mentality was that lifting weights would have a negative effect on a batter's swing and a pitchers arm motion. So much for that train of thought...

I've also heard comments from various players that now that baseball is testing alot of pitchers don't seem to be throwing so hard. Of course, like in cycling, names are not actually dropped.

Like I said it'll be interesting to see how McGwire's Hall of Fame voting goes.



:beer:

A cyclist wouldn't necessarily take steroids.

Why not?

The only thing that really bothers me about the heat that Bonds is getting is that nobody else is getting any. There were a whole lot of players juicing. But the general perception is that Bonds is the only one that was. There is no way to know who was or wasn't. Everyone likes to point out the muscle gain by Bonds. But take a look a Mark McGwire when came up with Oakland versus his days in St. Louis. Huge difference. The only reason Bonds came up is because of his link to Balco through his trainer.

Incidently, since baseball started testing, pitchers have been caught more than position players juicing. Years ago, the baseball mentality was that lifting weights would have a negative effect on a batter's swing and a pitchers arm motion. So much for that train of thought...


...and mark mcgwire is retired - bonds hated and antagonized the media...mcgwire did not - bonds is generally quite good at acting like an a$s...mcgwire knew how to act humble and use the 'aww shucks' routine - bonds had a balco connection...mcgwire did not.

Watch this...
Gatlin, who is black, will be vilified by the American public and media. Landis, who is white, will be given the benefit of the doubt and defended using every excuse known to science.

Just look at Barry Bonds, should I remind you that he is also black? Barry is assumed guilty at every turn. Compare to Lance Armstrong, who is white, who is given the benefit of the doubt and vociferously defended no matter how many more credible witnesses, testimony, or tests show his guilt.


the report i heard this morning said that gatlin tested positive for the CIR (carbon isotope ratio) test which supposedly can discerne artifical testosterone from naturally occuring - the CIR test is most likely where landis will go if the b sample comes back positive. i found it interesting that gatlin or rather track and field was able to keep the results secret for 2.5 weeks. cycling testing labs seem to be a hotbed for blabbermouths but i'm sure that is on dick pounds to-do list.

Watch this...
Gatlin, who is black, will be vilified by the American public and media. Landis, who is white, will be given the benefit of the doubt and defended using every excuse known to science.

Just look at Barry Bonds, should I remind you that he is also black? Barry is assumed guilty at every turn. Compare to Lance Armstrong, who is white, who is given the benefit of the doubt and vociferously defended no matter how many more credible witnesses, testimony, or tests show his guilt.

Is this what you want? seems you are trying to create/perpetuate racism, where no evidence of any is taking place. Remember, when there is no victim, or drama or white supremist plot. create it.

Just in case you are confused, you are part of the problem.

Why not?

Well, to re-phrase...A cyclist would benefit from other types of performance enhancing such as doping. Particularly in events such as the grand tours. Steroids will help any athelete. After all, being stronger and faster is always an advantage.

i found it interesting that gatlin or rather track and field was able to keep the results secret for 2.5 weeks. cycling testing labs seem to be a hotbed for blabbermouths but i'm sure that is on dick pounds to-do list.

Interesting point. Its actually common for T&F test results to stay under wraps. Which tends to add to the conspiracy theory mindset amongst the a lot of the T&F people. Basically, things can happen in that period between when the test results are learned and when they are actually reports to the media.

There is so much at stake at the elite level of these sports. Unfortunately, scandals are common in both sports. Its hard to say which is the best method.

Watch this...
Gatlin, who is black, will be vilified by the American public and media. Landis, who is white, will be given the benefit of the doubt and defended using every excuse known to science.

Just look at Barry Bonds, should I remind you that he is also black? Barry is assumed guilty at every turn. Compare to Lance Armstrong, who is white, who is given the benefit of the doubt and vociferously defended no matter how many more credible witnesses, testimony, or tests show his guilt.

Troll.

But feeding troll is my hobby, I can't afford a koi pond, so here's my response:

Because Lance never brought his son to a press conference, made him cry. And then said that the press made him cry.

Well, to re-phrase...A cyclist would benefit from other types of performance enhancing such as doping. Particularly in events such as the grand tours. Steroids will help any athelete. After all, being stronger and faster is always an advantage.
For the record, there are many different kinds of steroids. You're referring to anabolic steroids however, and those just don't make you stronger, they also aid substantially in recovery and maintaining/rebuilding lean mass. Also, the term doping refers to all methods of use re: performance enhancing drugs.

let me guess? drank all the tom tidley at the nuclear sub with flanders?

I read that as well this morning. And what I was wondering is this: Gatlin tested positive for testosterone also but it appears that the test was different than the one Floyd had. Unless I'm reading this wrong, this test seems like it would be able to tell for sure whether the testosterone was originating from the athlete's natural body processes or from an outside source. Here's the quote... and why don't they do this one of Floyd? Wouldn't that test actually be more definitive?

QUOTE: (the cyclist in question is of course FL)
<<The test on the cyclist measured the ratio of testosterone to epitestosterone in his system and found an imbalance. Gatlin's test was different. Called a carbon-isotope ratio test, it is essentially a test that looks only at testosterone, not epitestosterone, and can determine whether the testosterone in a person's system is natural or unnatural. The results of both athletes' tests point to the same type of violation of illegal-substance policy.
In his statement, Gatlin said he tested positive for "testosterone or its precursors." "Precursors" is another term for anabolic steroids.>>

Anybody?

MaryAnn, read this http://www.signonsandiego.com/sports/20060729-9999-1s29landis.html

The test referred to in Gatlin's case is a carbon radioisotope test, and it looks probable that its already been done on Landis and was positive.

Watch this...
Gatlin, who is black, will be vilified by the American public and media. Landis, who is white, will be given the benefit of the doubt and defended using every excuse known to science.

Just look at Barry Bonds, should I remind you that he is also black? Barry is assumed guilty at every turn. Compare to Lance Armstrong, who is white, who is given the benefit of the doubt and vociferously defended no matter how many more credible witnesses, testimony, or tests show his guilt.

I think there is a much easier non racial explanation. We don't care about track and field or Gatlin, and we assume sprinters ala Ben Johnson use steroids. So when we hear Gatlin's positive, we go ok, what's new and go on.

We do care about cycling and Landis. He's our hero and we want to believe in him. Consequently a fair number of people on this forum are willing to swallow a fair amount (i.e. Floyd's rapidly increasing bar tab) and make a lot of tortured arguments (it's alll a big french lie) to suspend their disbelief.

One other significant difference is that Gatlin's B sample has been tested and the testing process has run its course. I'm willing to give Landis the benefit of the doubt until its confirmed, but I'd bet heavy the B sample and the radioisotope test are going to hang Landis.

Jim Rome was just talking about how the official excuse from the Gatlin camp is that a disgruntled masseuse rubbed 'testosterone cream' into Gatlin's legs during a pre-race massage.

Can't help but laugh at that one... but hey, at least they're trying.

Masseuse rubbed testosterone containing substance into his thigh? Didn't she have a tissue?

Gatlin didn't test positive in the USA. It was a test in Europe. One thing of note about Gatlin, he tested positive while in college as well. He received a 2 year ban at that time. He's looking at a life ban this go around. Gatlin's coach, has coached 10 different atheletes who have been banned in the past.

Actually, I think Gatlin was tested after a relay meet in Kansas. In college, his positive resulted from a prescription for his Attention Deficit Disorder condition.

Actually, I think Gatlin was tested after a relay meet in Kansas. In college, his positive resulted from a prescription for his Attention Deficit Disorder condition.

This is correct, from what I understand. The prescription drug Adderall (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adderall), a stimulant amphetamine is often prescribed for ADHD.

For the record, there are many different kinds of steroids. You're referring to anabolic steroids however, and those just don't make you stronger, they also aid substantially in recovery and maintaining/rebuilding lean mass. Also, the term doping refers to all methods of use re: performance enhancing drugs.

Right. You are correct about the different types of steroids. I generally think of blood doping in terms of the transfusion process stuff that is common in cycling. I don't think that in many other sports, like football, an athelete who uses steroids would be considered "doping". That's just the way I refer to it as an athlete that came from other sports into cycling. But we're basically talking semantics here. Not really all that important to the overall issue.

This is correct, from what I understand. The prescription drug Adderall (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adderall), a stimulant amphetamine is often prescribed for ADHD.


Well, he still received a ban for it. And that's the excuse he gave then. Now its a disgruntled massage therapist that wanted to set him up. So the guy rubs cream from steroids into him during a massage...right, Justin:rolleyes:

Maybe Justin or Floyd are the long lost unborn twin of Tyler Hamilton.

This is correct, from what I understand. The prescription drug Adderall (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adderall), a stimulant amphetamine is often prescribed for ADHD.

It'd be a shame if someone gets a lifetime ban for a childhood prescription for a medically recognized condition given him by his parents commencing as a minor. Do they have any sentencing lattitude to treat the alleged testosterone violation similar to a first offense? Seems they gave a reduced sentence on that unintentionally doped mountain biker wherein the pharmacyst made the mistake, but that was a first offense.

I played football in college and got tested a few times. I also get tested as part of my employment. Before every test they ask if you're taking any medications, prescription or over the counter. Even simple cold medicine. They give you a chance to name anything that might show up. Yet with these guys we always hear about the excuse after the positive test. ADHD? How come the Adderall hasn't popped up before, Justin? Why didn't he name it prior to the test? That's why the governing body banned him. Because it was a BS excuse.

This testing isn't new stuff that just pops up to these guys. They're told about the testing procedures and the ramifications long before the tests. They know that the list of banned substances is a long list. Many of which are easily obtained at grocery store because their masking abilities. But when they get popped for positive, the BS excuses come flying out. Oh, I didn't know you meant all prescription medications, oh I didn't know you meant flu medicine, I've got ADHD, my massage therapist, my unborn twin, flax seed oil, blah blah blah...Its all a bunch of crap.

I am in no way saying I am on Gatlin's side on this, but as far as the banned substance list for the NCAA goes, it is kind of hard to keep up with. I run D1 Cross Country and some of the things on the banned list are crazy. Sudafed was on the list until recently. Most athletes don't even think twice about taking a cold medicine like that. But at the same time, we are told to take ANYTHING along the lines of medicine, meal replacement formulas, etc to the trainers to have it checked out. I'm sure that Gatlin had this opportunity also, so who knows. 2 failed tests is pretty bad...

All i'm saying is it is very hard for the average college athlete to keep up with a list that is that long and has so many over-the-counter drugs on it.

It'd be a shame if someone gets a lifetime ban for a childhood prescription for a medically recognized condition given him by his parents commencing as a minor. Do they have any sentencing lattitude to treat the alleged testosterone violation similar to a first offense? Seems they gave a reduced sentence on that unintentionally doped mountain biker wherein the pharmacyst made the mistake, but that was a first offense.

The first offense (Adderall) was his warning. Yes he was prescribed it. He should have gotten a TUE, if it was critical for him to have the med. Since his first conviction Gatlin has portrayed himself as Mr. Clean and spoken out against doping and gotten involved with children and youth in the issue. If the testosterone analysis is upheld, I hope he does get the lifetime ban. NO MORE EXCUSES.

I just want Carl Lewis to come back and put these kids to shame
..you know he could!

No better event in all of sports than the 100M
His 100 meters
+long jump and anchor leg


These guys are not even close to his level
Not nearly as exciting
No matter if they have broken his records
whole nother level
..and clean
I hope.

..and clean
I hope.

http://english.pravda.ru/world/20/91/368/9845_doping.html

In an interview with the newspaper Orange County Register, Carl Lewis, 41, said he had been caught using drugs in 1988, but still was allowed to participate in the sporting events. That was a decision of the US Olympic Committee. The USOC decided that the athlete doped unintentionally: they said he had no notion that a cold medicine that he used contained some prohibited components (which were pseudo-ephedrine, ephedrine and phenylpropanilamine, stimulants prohibited for use). In the words of Lewis, "hundreds of people were caught using doping," and, in the same way as Lewis himself, all of them were allowed to participate in the international sporting events.

I am in no way saying I am on Gatlin's side on this, but as far as the banned substance list for the NCAA goes, it is kind of hard to keep up with. I run D1 Cross Country and some of the things on the banned list are crazy. Sudafed was on the list until recently. Most athletes don't even think twice about taking a cold medicine like that. But at the same time, we are told to take ANYTHING along the lines of medicine, meal replacement formulas, etc to the trainers to have it checked out. I'm sure that Gatlin had this opportunity also, so who knows. 2 failed tests is pretty bad...

All i'm saying is it is very hard for the average college athlete to keep up with a list that is that long and has so many over-the-counter drugs on it.

You are right about that list. Most of what's on it, the average athelete would never suspect would cause a problem. And most of what's left after that, the average athelete wouldn't even know what it was.

But I think most college atheletes take the approach that you do. I did the same thing. Report any and everything. Considering how harsh the penalties are and the stigma attached, why take a chance and assume somethings okay...


I think the rules have changes since '88 and Lewis' days. There was a lot of controversy about allowing atheletes that happened to test positive get off because of an excuse. You can only imagine what kind of abuse that could lead to...

I am in no way saying I am on Gatlin's side on this, but as far as the banned substance list for the NCAA goes, it is kind of hard to keep up with.

Good working rule: If it ends in "....one." probably should take a pass.

http://english.pravda.ru/world/20/91/368/9845_doping.html

In an interview with the newspaper Orange County Register, Carl Lewis, 41, said he had been caught using drugs in 1988, but still was allowed to participate in the sporting events. That was a decision of the US Olympic Committee. The USOC decided that the athlete doped unintentionally: they said he had no notion that a cold medicine that he used contained some prohibited components (which were pseudo-ephedrine, ephedrine and phenylpropanilamine, stimulants prohibited for use). In the words of Lewis, "hundreds of people were caught using doping," and, in the same way as Lewis himself, all of them were allowed to participate in the international sporting events.

Phenypropanilamine was in Slim-Fast. Who would have thought Slim-Fast would get you a positive doping test?

The first offense (Adderall) was his warning. Yes he was prescribed it. He should have gotten a TUE, if it was critical for him to have the med. Since his first conviction Gatlin has portrayed himself as Mr. Clean and spoken out against doping and gotten involved with children and youth in the issue. If the testosterone analysis is upheld, I hope he does get the lifetime ban. NO MORE EXCUSES.

TUE is a UCI excuse-Gatlin is in track where they don't look the other way like UCI.
Never spoke of excuse, dosn't look like they gave him an excuse to begin with. I was talking about the sentencing phase not the guilt phase.

TUE is a UCI excuse-Gatlin is in track where they don't look the other way like UCI.
Never spoke of excuse, dosn't look like they gave him an excuse to begin with. I was talking about the sentencing phase not the guilt phase.

No, you are mistaken. TUE is much broader than UCI alone... see:


http://www.wada-ama.org/en/exemptions.ch2 (http://www.wada-ama.org/en/exemptions.ch2)

and from the IAAF- International Association of Athletics Federations (the track and field equivalent of UCI):

http://www.iaaf.org/antidoping/downloads/section=64/indexTUG.html

Did Gatlin race in this years Tour???

TUE is a UCI excuse-Gatlin is in track where they don't look the other way like UCI.
Never spoke of excuse, dosn't look like they gave him an excuse to begin with. I was talking about the sentencing phase not the guilt phase.

This is his second offense. Gatlin appealed his two-year ban and the IAAF reinstated him based on the fact that it was a prescription he'd been taking since childhood. However they also sternly warned him at the time of reinstatement:


However, Council stressed that Gatlin HAD committed a doping offence and issued a warning that
any repetition of his positive result would result in a life ban. (See Council Statement in Anti-doping News on Page 5)

The IAAF Council also stated its position in relation to cases of athletes who are prescribed prohibited substances in connection with the treatment of ADD and related disorders. Athletes requiring amphetamine medication f or the treatment of ADD must ensure that this medicine is taken under close medical supervision, to ensure that they do not compete under the performance enhancing influence of amphetamines. The IAAF will not grant applications for athletes with ADD who seek an exemption on medical grounds to use amphetamines during competition.

SOURCE: http://www2.iaaf.org/news/newsletter/news57.pdf

So, he's had a second chance. He got a lesser penalty on the first occasion. It's time, IF UPHELD, to say ENOUGH!

Watch this...
Gatlin, who is black, will be vilified by the American public and media. Landis, who is white, will be given the benefit of the doubt and defended using every excuse known to science.

Just look at Barry Bonds, should I remind you that he is also black? Barry is assumed guilty at every turn. Compare to Lance Armstrong, who is white, who is given the benefit of the doubt and vociferously defended no matter how many more credible witnesses, testimony, or tests show his guilt.

Yeah right, all of America is one giant Klan rally.:rolleyes:

ESPN reported yesterday that Gatlin's coach, Graham, has been banned by the USOC from all of their facilities and training sites. Also that Marion Jones and others that were linked to Graham were barred from an upcoming meet in Germany. Its sure not looking good for Gatlin now...

Yeah right, all of America is one giant Klan rally.:rolleyes:


Are you white? It sure sounds like you are.

Just to show how much bias there is between black athletes (guilty dopers or merely suspected) and white athletes (guilty dopers or suspected)... see the latest article on Velonews - "California cyclists back Landis". You ask these same people if they think that Gatlin is a doper and the answer is an immediate yes because he tested positive. Yet, you ask them if Floyd is a doper and the answer is no, he wouldn't do such a thing. You ask these people if Barry juiced and the answer is yes. Yet Barry never tested positive. You ask them if Armstrong used EPO and the answer is always no, he would never do such a thing.

Says Sharon Roberts quoted directly from the Velonews article, "Sharon Roberts, who rides for the I.E. Bikes racing team. "But he knew if he won, he was going to be tested. So why would he ruin his career for one day?" :rolleyes: Translated... Floyd's white. He's not one of those big muscular black guys that do steroids. So, of course he would never cheat like they would. :rolleyes:

http://www.velonews.com/news/fea/10654.0.html

There are a few flaws in your argument.

By far the biggest is that noone, or at least not the VeloNews writer, asked these Californians about Gatlin. Their "answers" are merely hypothetical musings on your part. You put those words about Gatlin in their mouths.

That's a big enough problem in and of itself but you go on to assume these people are rascist and will presume Gatlin guilty based on racist reasons and Landis not guilty for similar reasons.

Do you know any of the people interviewed personally? If so you may well be qualified to consider them racist. If not then it's deroagatory, defamatory and presumptious to do so. The article doesn't ID their ethnic background. Unless you're sure it's a dangerous assumption to even call them white.

There's a rule about assuming and you have proven it correct.

BTW as point of a legal fact neither Landis nor Gatlin is yet a proven "drug cheat." They have both failed a similar test and both will soon present explanations to the USADA. Not until or unless the USADA rejects the explanations is either man convicted. Even then there is still appeal to the CAS. The process is not yet complete and it's still early to be crying racism or French conspiracy, as the case may be.

im white and i think there both guilty!