Professional Cycling For the Fans - LeMond Wants Landis To Tell Truth

http://torontosun.canoe.ca/Sports/OtherSports/2006/07/30/1710095-sun.html

:bday:

And I want LeMond to STFU. Yes, I know everyone is entitled to their own opinion.

So am I.

LeMond has successfully gone from my idol in the 80's, when I last raced...to someone I wish would disappear from the planet.

Congratulations Greg, you idiot.

Duh!!!!

GL is stating the obvious. Everyone wants the truth. But unfortunately most people have a version of the truth that they expect to hear. What annoys me about GL is that he isn't factoring in the circumstantial evidence. He basically trying to make himself seem like he was the only dang cyclist who won without cheating. PLEASE get over LA. He is *****ing about this because he so friggin jealous he wasn't smart enough to not get shot in a hunting accident or smart enough to not let Hinault cheat him out of win. He believes he could have won seven. So to keep his name alive he is denigrating any American that wins. Notice he didn't attack Ulrich when he won the tour. It appears to me he wants to be the only American that ever won the tour.

Here are the issues with this whole mess:
1 - steroids cannot be used for one day. So Landis would have had a series of shots to boost his performance.
2 - If steroids made the difference then why did Landis crack on stage 16?
3 - The test used for steroids in blood has some problems.
4 - The organization to be fair could ask that Landis undergo analysis to determine if high-testo levels were drug induced or a natural phenomena of alcohol, cortisone shots or other factors.
5 - What were Landis' testorone counts the day before and day after. If significantly different is it medically possible for someone undergoing steroid injections to be able to have normal range testo levels the day before and the day after?

Can LeMond be banned for being a fricken mouth? Man,is he a bitter old man or what. I'm kinda starting to feel sorry for him,really. IMO,nothing should have come out until the b tests are checked. This isnt fair to Landis if they come back neg.

I like Greg LeMond a lot but he needs to cut his loses and be quiet, nothing to gain for him by this.

Why is GL so wrong.

What Floyd did was the last desperate act of a rider watching what might be his only chance at a TDF win fade away. Put the patch on his sack the night before and hoped it would be undetectable and boost his recovery. Now he just needs to admit it.

Get over it he cheated and GL is calling him out on it.

I've had a very similar reaction to most posters regarding GL: i.e. sour grapes / looking for attention.

However, and I'm not saying I buy this myself, but what if he's right? I mean what if Lance and Floyd and most of the other top riders are cheating? What if the problem is so severe that honest, clean riders don't have a chance? What if he was clean and realized that doping was becoming so widespread that even his awesome talent could no longer keep him competitive?

There's so much speculation on all sides, and clearly many involved are lying (I'm not sure which side is which...). All I'm saying is that IF (big if) he's right and sincere, then perhaps histiorically he'll be viewed in a different light. As it stands now I only see angry responses to what he says; I don't see what he has to gain. Unless he's right and sincere... then perhaps he's willing to ruin his popularity to fix a problem he thinks has ruined competitive cycling for honest athletes.

Just a thought...

Sadly, Greg Lemond, a once great champion, uses this type of issue to try to prevent himself from becoming a footnote in cycling history. It's really sad, but his big mouth has gotten him in trouble his whole life, why stop now.


------------------

I've had a very similar reaction to most posters regarding GL: i.e. sour grapes / looking for attention.

However, and I'm not saying I buy this myself, but what if he's right? I mean what if Lance and Floyd and most of the other top riders are cheating? What if the problem is so severe that honest, clean riders don't have a chance? What if he was clean and realized that doping was becoming so widespread that even his awesome talent could no longer keep him competitive?

There's so much speculation on all sides, and clearly many involved are lying (I'm not sure which side is which...). All I'm saying is that IF (big if) he's right and sincere, then perhaps histiorically he'll be viewed in a different light. As it stands now I only see angry responses to what he says; I don't see what he has to gain. Unless he's right and sincere... then perhaps he's willing to ruin his popularity to fix a problem he thinks has ruined competitive cycling for honest athletes.

Just a thought...

well i think most are using something and i think GL did too. nevertheless LA was proven innocent and GL is clearly calling him a cheat and landis' B test results have yet to be returned.

i think GL is a whining, self-serving POS. he's claims to want to clean up cycling but really he just wants to be acknowledged as the greatest american cyclist, which he will never be.

ed rader

Greg LeMond was a whiner and an ass when he was winning, why should he be any different now?

So the real question is how did Lemond come back from such a devastating injury himself? Wasn't he having trouble keeping up with the peloton in the early part of the year before his 2nd tour win? Then all of a sudden he's a contender again?

He is just bitter because he does not look too good in Lycra anymore.
Kenal0

Why is GL so wrong.

What Floyd did was the last desperate act of a rider watching what might be his only chance at a TDF win fade away. Put the patch on his sack the night before and hoped it would be undetectable and boost his recovery. Now he just needs to admit it.

Get over it he cheated and GL is calling him out on it.

What,you dont need to see the b samples?

However, and I'm not saying I buy this myself, but what if he's right? I mean what if Lance and Floyd and most of the other top riders are cheating? What if the problem is so severe that honest, clean riders don't have a chance? What if he was clean and realized that doping was becoming so widespread that even his awesome talent could no longer keep him competitive?

There's so much speculation on all sides, and clearly many involved are lying (I'm not sure which side is which...). All I'm saying is that IF (big if) he's right and sincere, then perhaps histiorically he'll be viewed in a different light. As it stands now I only see angry responses to what he says; I don't see what he has to gain. Unless he's right and sincere... then perhaps he's willing to ruin his popularity to fix a problem he thinks has ruined competitive cycling for honest athletes.

Just a thought...


The problem with GL is he makes sweeping statements in the hopes that one day there will be a case proving him right (which then must mean that he was right about everyone else he accused).

Duh!!!!

GL is stating the obvious. Everyone wants the truth. But unfortunately most people have a version of the truth that they expect to hear. What annoys me about GL is that he isn't factoring in the circumstantial evidence. He basically trying to make himself seem like he was the only dang cyclist who won without cheating. PLEASE get over LA. He is *****ing about this because he so friggin jealous he wasn't smart enough to not get shot in a hunting accident or smart enough to not let Hinault cheat him out of win. He believes he could have won seven. So to keep his name alive he is denigrating any American that wins. Notice he didn't attack Ulrich when he won the tour. It appears to me he wants to be the only American that ever won the tour.

Here are the issues with this whole mess:
1 - steroids cannot be used for one day. So Landis would have had a series of shots to boost his performance.
2 - If steroids made the difference then why did Landis crack on stage 16?
3 - The test used for steroids in blood has some problems.
4 - The organization to be fair could ask that Landis undergo analysis to determine if high-testo levels were drug induced or a natural phenomena of alcohol, cortisone shots or other factors.
5 - What were Landis' testorone counts the day before and day after. If significantly different is it medically possible for someone undergoing steroid injections to be able to have normal range testo levels the day before and the day after?

re: 4 Voight has pointed out, those testosterone records are a part of every riders medical file so it will be easy enough to verify or refrute what Landis has said about normal levels.
re: 5 there would have been no reason to test the 29th place stage finisher/3rd place GC rider the following day.

The full Lemond quote as reported in other media reports (links to which are posted on BF in other threads) starts out with I hope its not true, and then goes on to say if he's confirmed positive... Now it would be more diplomatic to wait until its confirmed or not, but I don't think there's much wrong with what he said. And if you substitute "Santiago Botero" for "Floyd Landis" I'd wager not a soul on this board would have a problem with the statement. (or at least there wasn't much concern for Botero at the time).

I tried the "Santiago Botero" substitution.
Convicting someone, ANYONE, before they are PROVEN guilty still bugs me.



http://www.conservativelife.com/images/israel.gif

I'm so fed up with Greg Lemond and his mouth, that I would give up cycling before I rode a Lemond bike.

I tried the "Santiago Botero" substitution.
Convicting someone, ANYONE, before they are PROVEN guilty still bugs me.



http://www.conservativelife.com/images/israel.gif

then why didn't you post a thread Botero is getting screwed being pulled from the tour just because its alleged he was in OP. I didn't see a whole lot of sympathy on here for those guys. But don''t mess with our hero

well i think most are using something and i think GL did too.



This not the case. If you read Eddie B's book and other comments by people in GL's era you would know that GL did not juice up.

According to Eddie, he even refused vitamin booster shots early in his career while with the USA Cycling program.

So, I can understand his distressed anger at dopers in this era of cycling.

then why didn't you post a thread Botero is getting screwed being pulled from the tour just because its alleged he was in OP. I didn't see a whole lot of sympathy on here for those guys. But don''t mess with our hero

Proabably because I was in France, RIDING the tour route during late June into July, and watching the tour, not logging in here.
As a matter of fact, I think ALL the riders who got jerked from TDF the day before the start because of allegations in OP were screwed. If Basso, Ulrich, etc. are cleared, I hope they sue their teams into bankruptcy.

I used to be a huge LeMond fan. I was on my knees screaming in front of the TV the day he beat Fignion by 8 seconds. Now I just wish he'd go away and be quiet. If Armstrong and/or Landis are ever found beyond a doubt to be guilty then I'll apologize. But until then LeMond needs to live with the fact that other Americans have won the TDF and shut up.

SB

We all want the truth. GL was one hell of a racer and will forever have my respect concerning his Tour victories. Regarding the current matters, I wish he would resist speaking until he knows all the facts.

We all want the truth. GL was one hell of a racer and will forever have my respect concerning his Tour victories. Regarding the current matters, I wish he would resist speaking until he knows all the facts.

I'd be quite happy enough to see that in here as well.

Cheers,

Brian

We all have to know what Greg's response would be. It's a shame that someone so bright and successful is yet so publicly critical. Every winner, every year gets my undying respect and so does every other soul that completes the horrible - beauty that is the tour.

It's a shame that someone so bright and successful is yet so publicly critical.
He's BRIGHT? He'd be the first pro cyclist with that honour if this were the case.

I still respect Lemond, and he has the right to say what he wants, regardless if he's annoying. You can argue that clouds still hover over Lance, and definitely over Landis now.

I road the hell out of my 80s steel Peugeot because of him.

The clouds are moving over to LeMond. Is there a reason we only hear from him when there is a problem with a us rider? Did he comment on the others that got caught before the race? What does LeMond do these days?

Well, he became or rather promoted himself as the US ambassador to cycling with his TDF victories. I don't blame him for wanting to ensure his legacy isn't dwarfed by Americans who may be cheating.

Sorta like the old-time baseball players who aren't happy their legacies and records are being overtaken by the steroid era.

I don't blame him for wanting to ensure his legacy isn't dwarfed by Americans who may be cheating.
Lemond was cheating.

Whatever Euro. You can keep saying that, but you have no proof. That is just your opinion. Your logic seems to be very simple. If an American wins something he was doped. For that matter that seems to be your logic period. If cycling is just full of dirty cheats then why do you even care who wins?

Lemond was cheating.

Wow you're stupid...

You clowns are looking really smart. Greg was talking about the isotopes and the foreign testoterone last Friday. People were too busy trying to take shots at him when he was telling the truth.
It shows how much you guys really know. Stick to talking about flippling stems and what pump you like.

i too won't ever ride a lemond, but what i really don't get is why he continues to bash american riders, and the sport in general. maybe some of that buckshot has constricted blood flow to his brain.

he, of all people, should be praising the triumphs of american riders, no matter what.

he, of all people, should be praising the triumphs of american riders, no matter what.

He did praise Landis...

Lemond hails 'best ever Tour', praises 'clean' Landis

Lemond had nothing but praise for Landis, the surprise winner of tour's yellow jersey. "He was one of my favourites before the race. He's clean and what's more, he's a great guy," he added.

http://au.news.yahoo.com/060724/19/zw6l.html

...until Wednesday night/Thursday morning :p

Its a load of BS to say that LeMond is just trying to trash American riders. He gains nothing if Floyd is guilty. I saw some of the TV interviews he gave after this and he is genuinely sad that Floyd tested positive. And everything he has said is valid:

If riders still choose to dope despite all the attention it's been given recently, it would take a huge scandal like the winner of the TdF testing positive to really cause the uproar needed to make a significant impact in the way organizers deal with doping. If others are convicted, they can deny it - if the WINNER is, there's no turning away from that.

And if Floyd is guilty then, as LeMond said, he shouldn't hide behind lawyers and PR people - he should be honest and transparent about it, or he stands to do even more damage to the sport than his doping alone would have done.

Wow you're stupid...

No dude - YOU are stupid, ill informed and naive.

The article that the OP sites is pretty incomplete and takes only a few select bits of what Lemond said when the "A" results were made public.

To hear what Lemond actually said, go to http://broadband.espn.go.com/ivp/splash

Then click the "Launch Video Player" button

When the next screen pops-up, enter Lemond in the search field in the lower left, then click on the Lemond video.

Then judge.

Thanks for the video link, celticfrost; this does cast him in a much more reasonable light than he seems to be being portrayed in the forums. -D

You clowns are looking really smart. Greg was talking about the isotopes and the foreign testoterone last Friday. People were too busy trying to take shots at him when he was telling the truth.
It shows how much you guys really know. Stick to talking about flippling stems and what pump you like.

It's the same old thing, for bike racing. The one that speaks out is always going to get insulted many times over. Everyone basically telling him to "shut up" ( Armstrong...)
The whole idea is to not talk about doping, unless when trying to make it sound like "it's just a few bad apples in the peloton"

I think the thing that makes Greg Lemond such a punching bag here is his arrogance. He implies that "absolutely NO ONE could win 5 or more Tours unless they are on something . . . . EXCEPT ME ! ! I could have done it, but I got shot."

Well, Lance WAS on something. Remember his Nike commercial 4 or 5 years ago when he is doing a voice over as they show different clips of him: "People ask me what I'm on. What am I on? I'm on my bike 6 hours a day working my a$$ off. What are you on?"

The cycling community as a whole would have much more respect for him if he would keep his derogatory comments to himself and try to help build up cycling in this country.

IThe cycling community as a whole would have much more respect for him if he would keep his derogatory comments to himself and try to help build up cycling in this country.

See post #41.

Success in a sports endevor does not necesarily mean intelligence. Lemond was a great cyclist but the more he makes comments like this, the sadder he looks. He is a bitter and dejected has-been that hopefully will go away soon enough.

Success in a sports endevor does not necesarily mean intelligence. Lemond was a great cyclist but the more he makes comments like this, the sadder he looks. He is a bitter and dejected has-been that hopefully will go away soon enough.


Trevor, did you watch the interview? What comments did you find sad or bitter?

Just out of curiosity.

How do we know GL never doped?

I hope there is more than because he said so and he never tested positive because that does not fly well these days.

Think if GL did what he did in this era he would be accused of cheating?

I was not referring to only this specific incident.

Trevor, did you watch the interview? What comments did you find sad or bitter?

Yep, the media serves up the Kool-Aid and most folks just blindly drink it :rolleyes:

Serious questions re Greg:

1. Has he done much to foster cycling (either pro or amatuer) in the US since he retired? Perhaps sponsor a team, lend his name, etc.
2. Does he support some type of charity or do something to benefit others?

Again, serious questions about what he has been doing with his fame and has he tried to help others as the only time I seem to hear his name is when he is taking shots at someone.

... Lemond was a great cyclist but the more he makes comments like this, the sadder he looks. He is a bitter and dejected has-been that hopefully will go away soon enough.

Did you watch it?, your statement seems pretty specific. I watched the interview again and didn't see bitter, dejected, or even hear anything derogatory. If anything he was cautioning the interviewer to "wait intill the B sample results are in". Trying to understand what you saw or heard in it?