Commuting - Hearing Loss?

I posted this in General Cycling Discussions (http://www.bikeforums.net/showthread.php?t=215186), but did not get an answer (some on hearing aids, but I'm not ready for those yet), so I though I'd try it here.

Does anyone know if the constant rush of wind noise has any detrimental effects on hearing?
What kind of decibel level are we listing to when pedaling at a decent clip?
I ask because my father, a dentist, has nerve damage to his ears from the constant whine of the drill.

--A

Absolutely, it aggrevates my tinnitus...

Yes. Conductive hearing loss can be expected. Accept it. Embrace it. There's alot in my environment I don't care to hear anyway.

You'll still be better off than someone driving a car with the stereo on. ( at least at the volumes that my cagers seem to have them at).

I can't put any numbers on it, but I'vew had the situation where I wheeled my bike into the garage and wondered what water was running as the rest of the family was out of town before I realised my ears were misbehaving due to the wind noise they'd just been subjected to. It is very infrequent that I get anything that bad, but it's hard to believe that there is not some cumlative damage happening. I've wondered about ear plugs to cut the noise some but worry that may impair hearing traffic sounds too much. All the advise anybody has ever offered is it doesn't happen to them or just turn your head a little, useless.

I don't mind the wind so much. It's the constant honking.

:)


Story: last night, around 9pm, I was riding on El Camino (a busy thoroughfare and major bus route). Traffic was light because it was late, and the stoplights seemed longer than normal because the usual constant stream of cars wasn't there. At one point, when the last car had gone through an intersection I was stopped at, I realized it was completely and suddenly silent. It was surreal. You could have heard a cricket chirp if there had been one. The noise started back up after a few seconds as more cars approached, but it made me realize how much traffic noise we block out most of the time. I wish I had more opportunities to ride at night - it's a whole other world out there.

I've wondered about ear plugs to cut the noise some but worry that may impair hearing traffic sounds too much.
I have the same concerns about ear plugs as well (and it's too hot to tolerate them at the moment). But I used to wear the foam rubber "chicklet" ones when I worked as a barkeep, because of the bands, and could still hear my customers. I may give them a try and if it's no worse than my car with the windows up, I may make it a permanent habit.

--A

Absolutely, it aggrevates my tinnitus...

I have a little tinnitus. It sometimes seems to get a little worse when riding or later in the day of a long ride. But not every time. Did you notice any particular pattern or anything to do with the weather? Mine seems to be worse in the cold.

A little bit worse when my sinuses are acting up or when my nose is stuffy.
But definitely worse when I'm cranking it on the way to work. I haven't listened to any music for the past 4-5 times that I've commuted.
It's a ringing in my ears and sometimes things go slightly mute for a while, its creepy.

concerts and machining (metal) have had a bigger impact on my hearing than bicycle/wind impacts!

Stick a cotton ball in your ear and get on with it.

concerts and machining (metal) have had a bigger impact on my hearing than bicycle/wind impacts!
I wouldn't guess that it would be a large impact, but the drill my father uses is not that loud either. He can hear a tv at a reasonable level and conversation is fine, but a high pitch alarm clock--nada. Anything high pitch and he is clueless. Try calling him on his cell phone for a full afternoon of fun.

A little bit worse when my sinuses are acting up or when my nose is stuffy.
But definitely worse when I'm cranking it on the way to work. I haven't listened to any music for the past 4-5 times that I've commuted.
It's a ringing in my ears and sometimes things go slightly mute for a while, its creepy.

Same here with sinus, nose etc. It feels as if there is a little fluid in there some times. I'm wondering if there is a very small infection or just some extra fliud. I have had it checked a couple of times with no answers. I have had it for years.

What?

I posted this in General Cycling Discussions (http://www.bikeforums.net/showthread.php?t=215186), but did not get an answer (some on hearing aids, but I'm not ready for those yet), so I though I'd try it here.

Does anyone know if the constant rush of wind noise has any detrimental effects on hearing?
What kind of decibel level are we listing to when pedaling at a decent clip?
I ask because my father, a dentist, has nerve damage to his ears from the constant whine of the drill.

--A
ANY prolonged exposure to constant high levels of noise is bad for human hearing as our bodies
were not designed to deal with high noise levels on a longterm repeat basis.

Will the rush of air past your ears damage your hearing on a bicycle?? NO, I don't think so as it's
no worse than the rush of air would be riding a horse which man has done for centuries. It's the
manmade noise that the killer.

ANY prolonged exposure to constant high levels of noise is bad ...Will the rush of air past your ears damage your hearing on a bicycle?? NO, I don't think so as it's
no worse than the rush of air would be riding a horse which man has done for centuries. It's the
manmade noise that the killer.

Good point. If you are riding in a pristine environment and the only noise you hear is your own breath, the beating of your heart, and the whistling of the air in your ears, I think the long term damage will be negligible.

I can't imagine there are many such commutes ... but I'm a life long urbanite, deaf as a door knob.

I've wondered about ear plugs to cut the noise some but worry that may impair hearing traffic sounds too much.

I've got a friend that uses those little yellow foam earplugs to keep down the wind noise when touring on her motorcycle. I can have a normal volume conversation with her after she's put in the plugs, but it cuts out the high-speed wind noise.

Interestingly enough, I had really started digging into this in the last few weeks. It seems like I read somewhere that the wind buffeting can reach the neighborhood of 110db. That's really loud. Think about it, if you are listening to music at a fairly high level, the wind noise can still drown it out to where it's inaudible.

I have a couple 35mhp+ stretches that I hit every day that started me pondering this issue. Motorcyclists also encounter hearing loss if they aren't wearing full coverage helmets.

I did uncover these http://www.slipstreamz.com/ , and have briefly tried them out. They do seem to cut the noise down significantly even with me not installing them correctly. The only place i could find that was selling them was here: http://www.macfriends.com/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWPROD&ProdID=2479

I'm currently working on a different design that is more of an airfoil to lift the air over the ear, while leaving the ear uncovered. We'll see how that pans out.

In the interim , I would say check out the slipstreamz.... if for nothing more than additional geek factor that they provide. Cuz these are the geekiest things I have ever seen. Yes, they far surpass even the orange safety vests.

Which reminds me of a question I asked long ago: are some helmets quieter than others above 25mph. Mine is a MTB helmet and it is very noisy on those downhills. But I haven't heard any roadies bragging that their helmets are quiet. I never had this problem with motorcycle helmets, so it's definitely a design flaw.

ANY prolonged exposure to constant high levels of noise is bad for human hearing as our bodies
were not designed to deal with high noise levels on a longterm repeat basis.

Will the rush of air past your ears damage your hearing on a bicycle?? NO, I don't think so as it's
no worse than the rush of air would be riding a horse which man has done for centuries. It's the
manmade noise that the killer.


So, 'natural' noise of the same amplitude is less dangerous than man made noise?

What kind of decibel level are we listing to when pedaling at a decent clip?
Depends on where you ride. If you're out in the sticks, it's insignificant.

Ride by a really busy 4 lane highway and it's extremely loud, particularly when it's wet. It's so loud that I had to buy a cell phone that sends text messages because I can't hear who I'm talking to even on max volume. I don't think that "normal" noise is dangerous for your hearing.

I've been riding for years and I can hear what you wrote just fine. :p

So, in places where it's illegal to have both ears covered by earplugs or headphones while operating a vehicle, what's a cyclist to do?

E.g. California ...


27400. A person operating a motor vehicle or bicycle may not wear a headset covering, or earplugs in, both ears. This prohibition does not apply to any of the following:

(... snip ...)

(d) A person wearing personal hearing protectors in the form of earplugs or molds that are specifically designed to attenuate injurious noise levels. The plugs or molds shall be designed in a manner so as to not inhibit the wearer's ability to hear a siren or horn from an emergency vehicle or a horn from another motor vehicle.


I'm hoping that "D" would be a reasonable exception.

I've worn earplugs while cycling for years; the protective type, as in (d) above. It cuts down on traffic noise and makes the ride a lot more pleasant. I don't feel it affects my ability to hear oncoming cars that much, and in any case, eyes and mirrors have the main job of doing that. My rides are always noisy, whether its from city traffic or the windblast of a good downhill run out in the country.

My ears are my friends. I've watched older relatives lose their hearing and it's not pretty. From what I gather, living with hearing aids is like having a tinny 1960s transistor radio in your head. And they cost as much (or more) than a high end road bike.

I've worn earplugs while cycling for years; the protective type, as in (d) above. It cuts down on traffic noise and makes the ride a lot more pleasant. I don't feel it affects my ability to hear oncoming cars that much, and in any case, eyes and mirrors have the main job of doing that. My rides are always noisy, whether its from city traffic or the windblast of a good downhill run out in the country.

My ears are my friends. I've watched older relatives lose their hearing and it's not pretty. From what I gather, living with hearing aids is like having a tinny 1960s transistor radio in your head. And they cost as much (or more) than a high end road bike.

Basicly there are two types of noise that do harm. First is loud "pulse" noise such as gunfire.
Second is "constant" noise such as a jet engine. Both of these types do harm because of the
high pressure air waves that carry the sound hitting the ear drum. This "concussion" pressure
just beats the crap out of the inner ear which cause deafness.

This "concussion" noise is often ignored due to the inability to feel the pressure after a time. The
cycle towards deafness is then underway.

This is where ear protection comes into play for the savvy & wise. The "concussion" can't harm the
ear if the pressure waves can't get to the ear drum IN FULL FORCE. That said, If you ride (or walk)
in an area of constant high pressure sound waves then it's smart to block as much of the sound as
you can safely.

Can someone tell me how fast one needs to go to have 85dB of wind noise?

i'd have thought it would be faster than most people here could average for 8 hours a day.

Gale force winds headon or riding a motorcycle at road speed or in open truck.
I doubt that a bicycle can go that fast.

That really depends on what type of helmet you wear (if at all) since the flow around that dictates the noise levels. It also depends on how your ears are shaped and where the wind is coming from. There's really no way to tell unless you take a head, stick a sound meter where the ear drum is, then measure it.

I just blew air over the sound level meter here with a piece of wax over it shaped like an ear and with a 25mph wind going over it, the SPL was averaging like 90dbA...

Slvoid,

Thank you for confirming what I was noticing. I think long time 90dba will result in hearing loss. Now to find a good set of earplugs.

That really depends on what type of helmet you wear (if at all) since the flow around that dictates the noise levels. It also depends on how your ears are shaped and where the wind is coming from. There's really no way to tell unless you take a head, stick a sound meter where the ear drum is, then measure it.

I just blew air over the sound level meter here with a piece of wax over it shaped like an ear and with a 25mph wind going over it, the SPL was averaging like 90dbA...

Seems like the little disposable ear plugs would be handy. I used to use them on a dirt bike I had and I could still hear someone talking loudly at me. The bike would make me deaf for a while without them.

Just a note to anyone interested; high end hearing loss is normal as you age. In this case his father attributes hearing loss to hi-speed dental drills, but this same type of hearing loss is normal for anyone over 45-50.

There is a cell phone ring tone available for teens to download that is designed so that parents and teachers cannot hear it, but teens can. Unfortunately for my daughter, I can still hear it though I'm 48.

Anything high pitch and he is clueless. Try calling him on his cell phone for a full afternoon of fun.

There is a certain amount of age-related high-frequency hearing loss, I think it's even got a technical medical name. A few companies have tried to capitalize on this making ringtones for cellphones at sufficiently high frequency that only people under ~30 should be able to hear it. The funny part is when students get in trouble when teachers who are in the small percent of the population that doesn't have this hear the phone ringing.

as per wind-noise. I figure a well sealed car's got to offer 20-30 decibels or so of attenuation, so most earplugs (just not the maximum strength ones) shouldn't be any worse than riding in a cage. they help for ignoring those silly cagers who wish to honk and yell at you too.

That really depends on what type of helmet you wear (if at all) since the flow around that dictates the noise levels. It also depends on how your ears are shaped and where the wind is coming from. There's really no way to tell unless you take a head, stick a sound meter where the ear drum is, then measure it.

I just blew air over the sound level meter here with a piece of wax over it shaped like an ear and with a 25mph wind going over it, the SPL was averaging like 90dbA...

90 dB has an allowable exposure of just over 2 hours a day, assuming you don't work in a noisy environment, which is fine for 90% of commutes. The other thing to realise is that 25mph is pretty much unsustainable for most commutes, and even then, turning your head slightly to the side every minute or two (checking traffic or just looking at the...flowers) will reduce the noise to well below 90dB. I'd say that the worries associated with wind noise causing hearing loss are probably better expended on drivers being knobs or roads being crap. But hey, each to their own.

Ok, so riding with a sound meter zip tied to my messenger bag a-la radio style on my way home yielded an average dBA of 96.2, low of 58, high of 112.

Absolutely, it aggrevates my tinnitus...

The ringing in my ears is so loud, I cant even hear my tinnitis.

On a serious note, I wish there was a surgery to correct tinnitis like there is for vision correction. In the military, I have access to free medical care, but the doctors keep telling me there is nothing I can do about it.

I've got a friend that uses those little yellow foam earplugs to keep down the wind noise when touring on her motorcycle. I can have a normal volume conversation with her after she's put in the plugs, but it cuts out the high-speed wind noise.

I used the kind that are bound together...they stay wrapped around the back of the helmet. I hold a plug in each hand while putting on the helmet and in the ears they go. Presto!

They tend to vibrate loose but they're better than nothing...Package says 25DB block. I'd venture to say they block more like 15.

Would love another easy no-fuss solution that works better and not too geeky.

There is some kinda experimental magnesium injection.
Otherwise I take 200% mag a day and it helps numb it a lot.

It would seem that helmets should have a muff built in to protect hearing.

Well, I hope Phonak have discount if you get them with the jersey.

Well, I hope Phonak have discount if you get them with the jersey.

No, you get steroids for your ear drums.

No, you get steroids for your ear drums.


Floyd uses testosterone for his tinnitus.

When asked about it his reply was "What?" :)

Ok, so riding with a sound meter zip tied to my messenger bag a-la radio style on my way home yielded an average dBA of 96.2, low of 58, high of 112.
Damn Slvoid,
Way to get some definitive numbers. Thanks. Guess I should keep my wonderings about body temp fluctuations during a ride to myself, huh?

Thanks again,

--A

There is a certain amount of age-related high-frequency hearing loss, I think it's even got a technical medical name.

It is called presbycusis, and it always seems to be the higher frequencies that people loose the ability to hear first. The thing I learned from working with the elderly is to lower the tone of your voice, and not increase the volume, in most cases this works, in others you just have to yell. I think in many cases it is more common for one ear to lose hearing faster than the other ear, I forget whether it is the right or left one that usually goes first.

Mind you my readings were in NYC.. your mileage may vary out in the country side. I'm gonna have to do a ride up an empty road to test that one.

I lost the ear buds to my iPod and went ahead and bought a pair of Slipstreamz (http://www.slipstreamz.com/) at the same time. They do the trick quite well, too hot for summer/hell season use but this fall and winter, I'm leaving them attached to my helmet. They are a bit quirky to get adjusted, but seem to work as advertised.

--A

I lost the ear buds to my iPod and went ahead and bought a pair of Slipstreamz (http://www.slipstreamz.com/) at the same time.

What a great product!! These neatly solve the common issue of safety about having earbuds IN the
ear that often is asked about here. These things put a speaker NEAR the ear which is neat as hell
to me.

It is called presbycusis, and it always seems to be the higher frequencies that people loose the ability to hear first. The thing I learned from working with the elderly is to lower the tone of your voice, and not increase the volume, in most cases this works, in others you just have to yell. I think in many cases it is more common for one ear to lose hearing faster than the other ear, I forget whether it is the right or left one that usually goes first.

Can you speak into my good ear please?

Slvoid is right. NYC will yield a higher reading. I had trouble finding a place in the City that I could carry on a cell phone conversation without asking the other person to speak louder. I rarely have that problem here.

The slipstreamz also work well without the ear phones in place. I think I'm going to really like these things.

--A

I've never found the noise levels too loud when I ride my bicycle. But have noticed the high levels of noise when I ride my motorcyle. Did some research, and found some custom ear plugs (db-blockers) that bring down all noise levels about 30db. This would allow you to hear traffic and voices etc, while keeping the ambient noise at a less damaging level.

If I hadn't already destroyed my hearing it might be an issue. But 10 years of playing punk rock probably had a bigger impact than any bike noise I could create.

The biggest issue for me is when I'm riding with someone. My helmet (Furio) creates so much wind noise, it's hard to hear the other rider talking. I find when I turn my head towards them, the noise decreases and I can hear fine.