I have seen the foul depths of evil in my fellow americans, and today i was road raged in Seattle by a wacked woman who claimed to be a 'bike rider', raced bikes, bought custom frames at this downtown shop, and was a lawyer to boot! What a crazy incident.....
I was riding towards into downtown Seattle this morning on 2nd Ave. 2nd ave is a four lane one way, with a bike lane on one side.
I was clipping along on a slight uphill in and near the bike lane, then merged right to make a right turn in a few blocks. Bikes are allowed to ride on either side of a one way here. a truck was stopped in the road ahead and i moved into one of the middle lanes to get around him. there was very little traffic, and i was not cutting anyone off, just typical Seattle Belltown traffic..... At the moment i pull nearly abreast the truck, the trucker decides to cut across ALL the lanes of traffic without signalling to make a left turn. I merge further out, and flip the driver the #1 signal. there was light traffic otherwise, and my riding was impeding no drivers behind me.
At the stop, a woman rolls down her window and starts screaming at me.....
" I'm a bicyclist and you are the bicyclists that get us killed out here! I'm a bike racer, I buy bikes at a (downtown seattle custom bike builder) and you give us a bad name! You should be going 35 miles an hour if you are in the lanes (inflating downtown speed limits by 10 MPH)....I'm a lawyer!!"
So, we begin a heated discussion of the ROWs in the state of washington, and bicyclists rules of the road.....this woman stayed thru two light cycles, arguing with me about how i such a bad bicyclist for going around the truck and flipping the driver off; the truck driver is stuck helplessly behind her.
She even got out of the car, to get all in my face,and was checking if my bike had a speedometer....she was such a wackjob, i was suprised I didn't mace her. she had already identified herself as a 'lawyer' and one that defended bicyclists....what a joke. i accused her of road rage; fired off the name of a bike lawyer in Seattle, and urged her to reaquaint herself with the revised code of the state of washington regarding bicyclists....
what an idiot. i cannot believe american society has sunk so low, that this type of behavior is engaged in by a lawyer, one who races bikes and buys fancy bike frames.
I think too, this is indicative of a schism in bicycling culture, betweeen the spandax Audax wannabees, and the utility and transportational bikers.
The BikeForums Team
-adv-
This is an archived thread, you can find the full version of this thread, with images, links and more content here.
i think you shouldn't flip pickup trucks off and then get in front of them
Bockman
was she hot?
FLBandit
They're cute when they're angry! :)
HWS
i cannot believe american society has sunk so low
It was one woman. Not "American society".
kb0tnv
You should have told her "I will let you talk to MY lawer!" and then gave her his phone number and road on! People don't understand the concept of speed LIMIT and the fact that you are supposed to drive according to the conditions (i.e. slow down) Just because you can go 25mph or 35mph doesn't mean you always will. Plus a bicyclist is allowed the full lane if necessary and as long as your communicating your intentions you are in the right. Looks like she was slowing everyone down at that point. I would have called the cops or told her too if she had a problem. No reason to argue since it is her word against yours. Flipping people off is not a good thing! It just makes people more negative towards cyclists! That is one thing I don't think was a good idea to do.
Keep Cycling!
sgtsmile
what an idiot. i cannot believe american society has sunk so low, that this type of behavior is engaged in by a lawyer, one who races bikes and buys fancy bike frames.
I think too, this is indicative of a schism in bicycling culture, betweeen the spandax Audax wannabees, and the utility and transportational bikers.
Without meaning any offence, I can believe that <any> western society has sunk so low. The kind of bike she rides has nothing to do with her behaviour (despite what some would say), her racing has nothing to do with her behaviour (I have met cyclists who race who are wonderful, who are *******s, and those who dont who fit both descriptions as well - the divide between different cycling "types" is largely artificial), and her being a lawyer has nothing to do with her behaviour. I think the majority of reasons why people act like this stem from a few things: a lack of maturity, selfishness, a sense of "moral" or other superiority, and a lack of maturity (oh wait, I said that already).
Being self serving is beaten into our heads when to be considered a success by mainstream culture you have to "win", beat the other, and everything is a competition. This tends to bring out the less pleasant characteristics in some people. Some people are able to achieve "success" by society's standards and remain nice, but a lot of people struggle to do so, and by now, I am sure we all realise that someone who triggers the "pet peeve" response in another person, will receive the brunt of the strung out person's bad behaviour. Just look at bikeforums for some beautiful examples of this: it is a study in character assassination.
The schism in bike culture exists, yes. But again, I would argue that I comes from a lack of willingness amongst people who ride different bikes for different reasons to accept people for who they are. It is the same mentality that makes it difficult for drivers to accept bikes. It is also from a lack of maturity, selfishness, a sense of "moral" or other superiority, and a lack of maturity. What matters in the world of biking is that people are on bikes. The OP's example is just another bad example of what "elitism" can create. (and I have seen that go both ways too - "roadies" ripping into mtn bikers, mtn bikers ripping into roadies, utilitarians snobbilly flipping off anyone in lycra, etc etc etc - pity the poor person with 3 bikes who engages in all kinds of riding! they must claw themselves to death everynight!)
supcom
I can't believe you would waste your time arguing with an obviously irrational person.
vtjim
They're cute when they're angry! :)
:D
Q. How do you know if someone is a lawyer?
A. (S)He'll tell you. :rolleyes:
sgtsmile
I can't believe you would waste your time arguing with an obviously irrational person.
Thanks for the great siggy quotation!
PaulH
- pity the poor person with 3 bikes who engages in all kinds of riding! they must claw themselves to death everynight!)
There's a European commuter bike, a road bike, and a hybrid in my garage. I may be at risk for this. Thanks for the "heads up."
Paul
* jack *
....she was such a wackjob, i was suprised I didn't mace her.
I would never pass up the opportunity to mace a lawyer.
MarkS
was riding towards into downtown Seattle this morning on 2nd Ave. 2nd ave is a four lane one way, with a bike lane on one side.
Bad biker! Get back in your bike lane! Bad!
Good to see "velo-transit" is alive and well in Seattle. As long as there are bike lanes, somebody is going to think you always have to be in them.
Bekologist
I'm sure you would have treated me the same way, eh, Mark?
i was preparing to make a right, so had moved to the side of the street opposite the bike lane.
this woman was a rager, an asshat. talking to a yipyah who purports to 'defend bicyclists' in the legal arena is worth jawing over.
And she WAS hot; i was hoping for a little 'fatal attraction' action....... ;)
rando
she obviously thought you were hot. :D you should get her # next time.
krazygluon
Things like that give me desire to make some copies of the Kentucky Revised Statutes regarding cyclists, fold them up into neat little parcels and have them ready for re-education purposes. Were she not hot, I wouldn't've wasted my time on her Bek, but since she was, I don't think I can really blame you too much other than waving my finger and saying "don't flip off trucks, that's bad for numerous reasons unrelated to this thread"
come to kentucky: you'll learn you can flip off everyone but the truck drivers. they're nice people on the road (I usually get more courteous behavior from trucks on or off bike) but don't mess with them.
timmhaan
road rage is one of the ugliest aspects of human nature. it's absolutely disgusting to watch and be a part of.
genec
Bad biker! Get back in your bike lane! Bad!
Good to see "velo-transit" is alive and well in Seattle. As long as there are bike lanes, somebody is going to think you always have to be in them.
Why? Why can't we tell the public that cyclists have the same rights to use the road as everyone else, and that bike lanes are only a convenience.
Every state in the US has a law that gives cyclists the same rights on the road as any vehicle, and generally experienced cyclists know that... but do we bother in any way to tell the public?
Those that do not cycle, drive about assuming they own the road, and that cyclists have no rights to it... laws however give us rights that no one knows about. It is as if we have Stealth Rights.
"Yes, you have rights, but we shan't tell anyone now shall we."
It is as if you are increadably rich, but cannot spend a dime!
Apparently even miss lawyer didn't even know...
San Rensho
Get her name and report her to the state bar association. Seems she has some anger management issues the Bar might be interested in.
catatonic
Yes, you should have asked for her card, and then reported her to the BAR for unprofessional conduct. They take thing slike this pretty seriously.
JohnBrooking
They're cute when they're angry! :)
Lawyers? Racers?
Bekologist
I GOT her name, and vehicle tag... ya'll think i should?
rando
yeah, I would.
timmhaan
I GOT her name, and vehicle tag... ya'll think i should?
you would be a hero if you did. okay, that may be overstating it a bit, but i think you should. definitely.
MarkS
Why? Why can't we tell the public that cyclists have the same rights to use the road as everyone else, and that bike lanes are only a convenience.Bike lanes aren't just a convenience if the law says you have to be in them ... even if the fine print allows you out for good behavior.
But, yeah, letting the world know that bikers have rights too is a good idea. But how do you do that in a state that has already eliminated driver's education? Obviously, just tellling people (like Bek tried here) that you have rights has no effect because of the generally stubborn quality of human nature.
I have never heard or seen a pro-bike advertisement on broadcast media. I've never seen a "share the road" advertisement in any magazine. I've never seen a "share the road" billboard. These are the most common and credible ways of disseminating information. So I assume that no matter how much money I send to some "bike advocacy" organization, the money is not going to be used that way.
After these commercial approaches, we would have to look for more grass-roots ways to get the word out. What are low-cost ways of getting the word out? Here's some that occur to me at the moment:
Posters on light poles and such, just like "lost doggy" posters
Share the road signs on sticks just like you see during election campaigns.
Larger posters on electrical boxes like you see with those advant-guard semi-art "Rebel" posters
Leaflets slipped under windshield wipers
Hand out "tracts" at freeway exits
Not sure about the legality of posters and such -- though certainly other groups seem to get away with them.
joejack951
Funny how so many people that take the time to inform me of how and where I should be riding my bike also like to say that they are cyclists too. Apparently, I'm supposed to draw the "logical" conclusion that if someone else does it, it must be the right way. Right. Funny how I've never seen any of those "cyclists" ever riding on those same roads that they are driving on. Well, except for one. I almost started my own thread about this encounter but I'll use this thread as it has some similarities.
I'm riding to work one morning about 2 weeks ago. I turn right out of my neighborhood (on red which is allowed) and since a small pack of cars is coming, I pull into the shoulder and get up to speed. Once they've passed, I move out into the right lane (2 lanes each direction) as no one else is in sight and I'm approaching a bus stop and intersection soon. In my mirror, a see a Miata pull out of my neighborhood and as it's passing me in the left lane the guy yells at me to get in the shoulder (I'm about 100 yards from the bus stop/turn lane now). He pulls back into the right lane and I stop a few seconds later behind him at the red light. I'm thinking to myself what kind of jerk sees me leave the neighborhood then yells at me out on the road. Well, the guy turns around and says to me "You really should be riding in the shoulder." I respond, "What shoulder? you mean the turn lane?" He's a bit frazzled by this response and continues with, "Well, I race and ride a lot of miles around here..." I cut him off as I think I recognize him and ask if he's John Q. who I've gone on a group ride with before. He's says yes then starts again with, "This is a high traffic road (we were the only ones at the light with one other car at the time) and you should be in the shoulder." I then say, "Well, I ride this road every morning and seem to do just fine. I think I can handle it." He's says ok and takes off as the light turns green.
Side note: one of the reasons I have decided not to ride with this group any more is the amount of clueless riders who run stop signs and, as evidenced by this guy, don't know how to handle a multilaned roadway with many turn lanes. There are very few spots on this road where the shoulder is of any use (one of them being right outside my neighborhood) yet most cyclists just blindly ride down the side of the road going straight through every turn lane (I did it myself for a while having "learned" from others' behavior). Hopefully I get some time to really discuss this road with this guy.
donnamb
Absolutely report her. That kind of popping off could be terrible for a client if she did it to a judge. I wonder if asking her out as she was catching her breath would have worked. A guy at a restaurant did that to me once. I didn't accept, but it sure made me lose my ranting momentum. :o
On the subject of transportation vs. racing/road cyclists, I don't know if it's part of the schism, but the only motorists who yell at me for doing legal things and preface their rant by saying that they are cyclists are the road/racing types. How do I know this? They always shoot off a long list of whatever rides/races they've been on in the last year. I'm not sure why they think I need to know that, but they sure give non-road cyclists a pretty bad impression of themselves.
billh
you would be a hero if you did. okay, that may be overstating it a bit, but i think you should. definitely.
she was definitely coming on to you. If she sues you, that's a SURE sign she really WANTS you. :p
you could have diffused the situation with "So . . . are you into . . . latex?"
Blue Order
I GOT her name, and vehicle tag... ya'll think i should?I'm having a hard time seeing this as a case of road rage. Typically, we would be talking about somebody using their vehicle to try to intimidate you, throwing things at you, or otherwise trying to intimidate you to abandon your right to the road. She didn't do those things. She took you to task for flipping the truck driver off, and for riding in the middle lane, because those things "give cyclists a bad name." She had a disagreement with you about proper cycling behavior, one cyclist to another.
And maybe that disagreement got heated enough to cross the line into inappropriate behavior (I'm assuming from your description that she got out of her car while she was in the lane, and argued through two light cycles?). The question is whether her disagreement with you was of a nature that it *would be* appropriate to report her for disciplinary action. If she threw something at you, or tried to run you off the road, I'd say yes. If she was arguing with you about appropriate cycling behavior, I'd say no. If it was somewhere in between, you have to decide for yourself if her behavior touches on questions of professional ethics-- meaning that she was behaving in such a way that sanctions against her for violations of profesional ethics would be justified. Illegal behavior would be sanctionable, while disagreement-- even vehement disagreement-- would not be. You decide.
My own feeling about these issues is that too often, people are tempted to report people unfairly. The most outrageous example I know of is a woman I knew, a vegetarian (I'm vegetarian too, incidentally), who decided to call in a false report of erratic driving on a truck driver (who hadn't actually done any erratic driving) to his company. Her rationale was that he shouldn't be driving for a meat company. Regardless of whether somebody is vegetarian or a meat eater, it was unfair to falsely report that driver. And that's how I feel about reporting this woman-- if there is a valid reason to report her, then she should be reported. If instead, the reason to report her is for payback, then don't report her.
banerjek
I can't believe you would waste your time arguing with an obviously irrational person.
+1 I've always lived by the motto "Don't bark at dogs." This would be one of those situations where that applies.
I wouldn't waste time reporting her. First of all, it sounds like she's just some wack job and didn't do anything particularly dangerous (even if it is very easy to get heated up in a situation like that). More importantly, she'll encounter someone like herself soon enough. That way, 2 jerks can punish each other thoroughly without you having to be involved.
nova
Bike lanes aren't just a convenience if the law says you have to be in them ... even if the fine print allows you out for good behavior.
But, yeah, letting the world know that bikers have rights too is a good idea. But how do you do that in a state that has already eliminated driver's education? Obviously, just tellling people (like Bek tried here) that you have rights has no effect because of the generally stubborn quality of human nature.
I have never heard or seen a pro-bike advertisement on broadcast media. I've never seen a "share the road" advertisement in any magazine. I've never seen a "share the road" billboard. These are the most common and credible ways of disseminating information. So I assume that no matter how much money I send to some "bike advocacy" organization, the money is not going to be used that way.
After these commercial approaches, we would have to look for more grass-roots ways to get the word out. What are low-cost ways of getting the word out? Here's some that occur to me at the moment:
Posters on light poles and such, just like "lost doggy" posters
Share the road signs on sticks just like you see during election campaigns.
Larger posters on electrical boxes like you see with those advant-guard semi-art "Rebel" posters
Leaflets slipped under windshield wipers
Hand out "tracts" at freeway exits
Not sure about the legality of posters and such -- though certainly other groups seem to get away with them.
In all state laws ive looked at (about 12 or so so far) doing a bi of leg work for some on the forums here who are not sure about a given law in their town. Towns cities localities can not legally enforce a law that is in direct conflict with the state law. Well its not exactly that simple. They can legally write a ticket but you legally do not need to pay that ticket you just need to contest it in court.
The UVC (uniform vehicle code) classes bikes as vehicle's. This means such invalid laws as cities such as avon and avon lake here in ohio that states bikes must be ridden on the sidewalk or bike path where such a path or side walk exist are invalid (soon to be illegal out right in ohio).
To date after looking at these various state laws all have had similar terms with regards to cycling and bikes and class bikes as vehicles.
I know 12 out of 50 is not great sampling but it was also only based on post here regarding such invalid local laws and ords.
Its been fairly uniform in that a city can not have a law in direct conflict with state law. The only time a city or locality can have a law in conflict with state law is with regards to giving a person more rights.
Example state x has a law that forbids cyclists to ride on any local roads between 3 and 6 pm. City y in that state could allow bikes to ride any where they like any time they like. But city z could not make it against the law to ride bikes on local roads between 2 and 7 pm. While they could legally ticket tickets would be tossed out in court.
JohnBrooking
I have never heard or seen a pro-bike advertisement on broadcast media. I've never seen a "share the road" advertisement in any magazine. I've never seen a "share the road" billboard. These are the most common and credible ways of disseminating information. So I assume that no matter how much money I send to some "bike advocacy" organization, the money is not going to be used that way.
Take a look at this (http://www.bikemaine.org/share_the_road.htm). The broadcast campaign they mention took place in May in the Portland, Maine area. They are now in the phase of studying its effectiveness.
nova
Yes, you should have asked for her card, and then reported her to the BAR for unprofessional conduct. They take thing slike this pretty seriously.
+1
But double check your state laws first make sure the state does not give cities the power to write and enforce laws in conflict with the state laws. If not go by what your state law says if so check the local laws and then report her.
My guess is like most every state cities cant pass and enforce laws in direct conflict with state law where that law remove or restricts rights.
bmike
I have never heard or seen a pro-bike advertisement on broadcast media. I've never seen a "share the road" advertisement in any magazine. I've never seen a "share the road" billboard. These are the most common and credible ways of disseminating information. So I assume that no matter how much money I send to some "bike advocacy" organization, the money is not going to be used that way.
You need to come to Burlington, VT. Busses with their sides plastered in "share the road" - aimed at cyclists and drivers. PSA's on the local radio encouraging cyclists to get respect by following traffic laws, and drivers to respect cyclist's right to the road... bike lanes too, but I don't like em.
Oh, and I've only been living in town for less than a week. Looking forward to meeting some of the cycling community.
nova
Take a look at this (http://www.bikemaine.org/share_the_road.htm). The broadcast campaign they mention took place in May in the Portland, Maine area. They are now in the phase of studying its effectiveness.
/me starts to hate Portland ...
I sware you guys got it good for the most part in Portland. Ive yet to see a single share the road sign here in ohio. Ive covered about a 50 x 25/30 mile area in north east ohio. Mostly along the tow path and surrounding roads. This should be a hot spot for such signs but not a single one.
Roody
If she's a lawyer and she's a cyclist and she's a motorist....and she STILL doesn't know the laws regarding bikes on the road--
--No rant from a cyclist is going to educate her, and neither is a bunch of signs on lamp posts.
genec
Bike lanes aren't just a convenience if the law says you have to be in them ... even if the fine print allows you out for good behavior.
But, yeah, letting the world know that bikers have rights too is a good idea. But how do you do that in a state that has already eliminated driver's education? Obviously, just tellling people (like Bek tried here) that you have rights has no effect because of the generally stubborn quality of human nature.
I have never heard or seen a pro-bike advertisement on broadcast media. I've never seen a "share the road" advertisement in any magazine. I've never seen a "share the road" billboard. These are the most common and credible ways of disseminating information. So I assume that no matter how much money I send to some "bike advocacy" organization, the money is not going to be used that way.
After these commercial approaches, we would have to look for more grass-roots ways to get the word out. What are low-cost ways of getting the word out? Here's some that occur to me at the moment:
Posters on light poles and such, just like "lost doggy" posters
Share the road signs on sticks just like you see during election campaigns.
Larger posters on electrical boxes like you see with those advant-guard semi-art "Rebel" posters
Leaflets slipped under windshield wipers
Hand out "tracts" at freeway exits
Not sure about the legality of posters and such -- though certainly other groups seem to get away with them.
Exactly... it seems that all forms of formal bicycle advocacy have failed us here. There are paint and path advocates, and VC advocates, but not a one of these advocacy groups has let the public know that we have rights to the road. It is as if these formal advocacy groups are expecting uninterested motorists to learn this stuff by osmosis. The laws are for cyclists, but the other users of the road have to be aware of them for the laws to have any effect.
There is this one line in the CA driver's handbook: "Bicyclists on public streets have the same rights and responsibilities as automobile drivers. Bicyclists are part of the normal traffic flow and are entitled to share the road with other drivers." But this is 1 page of 99, that most likely the motorist is going to ignore anyway... as they are NOT tested on it.
It is about time for cyclists to go beyond CM... and to formally announce to the driving community that we too have the same rights to the road. Just riding in the streets does NOT tell motorists that the law supports us. Motorists tend to think they are doing us a favor in allowing us to use their streets.
How bad of a problem is this... well apparently even police do not realize that we can use the streets just like a motorist... as exhibited by the Portland issues of getting a ticket for making a left turn on a bike.... and other stories here on A&S of similar nature.
MarkS... those are good ideas... perhaps a stealth campaign of posters is better than the current situation of nothing.
Roody
Exactly... it seems that all forms of formal bicycle advocacy have failed us here. There are paint and path advocates, and VC advocates, but not a one of these advocacy groups has let the public know that we have rights to the road. It is as if these formal advocacy groups are expecting uninterested motorists to learn this stuff by osmosis. The laws are for cyclists, but the other users of the road have to be aware of them for the laws to have any effect.
There is this one line in the CA driver's handbook: "Bicyclists on public streets have the same rights and responsibilities as automobile drivers. Bicyclists are part of the normal traffic flow and are entitled to share the road with other drivers." But this is 1 page of 99, that most likely the motorist is going to ignore anyway... as they are NOT tested on it.
It is about time for cyclists to go beyond CM... and to formally announce to the driving community that we too have the same rights to the road. Just riding in the streets does NOT tell motorists that the law supports us. Motorists tend to think they are doing us a favor in allowing us to use their streets.
How bad of a problem is this... well apparently even police do not realize that we can use the streets just like a motorist... as exhibited by the Portland issues of getting a ticket for making a left turn on a bike.... and other stories here on A&S of similar nature.
MarkS... those are good ideas... perhaps a stealth campaign of posters is better than the current situation of nothing.
I think it's going to take a decades-long ad campaign to inform cagers of our rights and change their attitudes about cycling. We need something along the lines of the anti-littering campaigns in the 1960s and 70s, which finally had some success after many years and a spearheading effort by a First Lady of the United States (Mrs. Johnson, of course). There are currently two cyclists who could get such a campaign moving, if they cared to: Lance Armstrong and George W. Bush.
I don't see any so-called "advocates" moving in this direction. It's really very discouraging to me, and I've pretty much given up any hope for advocacy in this country.
JohnBrooking
/me starts to hate Portland ...
I sware you guys got it good for the most part in Portland. Ive yet to see a single share the road sign here in ohio. Ive covered about a 50 x 25/30 mile area in north east ohio. Mostly along the tow path and surrounding roads. This should be a hot spot for such signs but not a single one.
We also have hardly any bike lanes, which is either good or bad depending on how you feel about them. Myself, I've learned without them, so I don't personally feel the lack.
genec
I think it's going to take a decades-long ad campaign to inform cagers of our rights and change their attitudes about cycling. We need something along the lines of the anti-littering campaigns in the 1960s and 70s, which finally had some success after many years and a spearheading effort by a First Lady of the United States (Mrs. Johnson, of course). There are currently two cyclists who could get such a campaign moving, if they cared to: Lance Armstrong and George W. Bush.
I don't see any so-called "advocates" moving in this direction. It's really very discouraging to me, and I've pretty much given up any hope for advocacy in this country.
Agreed. Locally I plan on passing out leaflets with cycling info... but there should be a bigger campaign... and this time of high gas prices and the enduring name of Lance would be a good start to a campaign like this.
JohnBrooking
Exactly... it seems that all forms of formal bicycle advocacy have failed us here. There are paint and path advocates, and VC advocates, but not a one of these advocacy groups has let the public know that we have rights to the road. It is as if these formal advocacy groups are expecting uninterested motorists to learn this stuff by osmosis. The laws are for cyclists, but the other users of the road have to be aware of them for the laws to have any effect.
And even the VC advocacy is not that effective, as it does not reach most cyclists either. What fraction of bicycle riders ever take a safety course or otherwise learn much about riding on the road?
nova
We also have hardly any bike lanes, which is either good or bad depending on how you feel about them. Myself, I've learned without them, so I don't personally feel the lack.
Well i have no official BLs just a couple roads with very wide paved shoulders they are marked with a white line but they are not a bike lane. As their not even along the length . I do tend to ride there when i can but would not matter one way or another on these couple roads. They just tend to be quite bike friendly to start.
Id kill for a couple share the road signs or bike lanes on a couple roads here.
CommuterRun
The redneck in me says after she told you she was a lawyer, you should have asked, "Are you really a lawyer?", just before you punched her in the nose. (Don't really do that, it's not advice. Just something I would think of.)
The more civil side of me says don't sweat it. In nearly every instance when people make claims like in this instance, they are lying.
Of course, if you got her name you could look her up in the American Bar Association. I hear (strictly hearsay) they just looove to hear about unprofessional actions taken by their members.;)
nova
And even the VC advocacy is not that effective, as it does not reach most cyclists either. What fraction of bicycle riders ever take a safety course or otherwise learn much about riding on the road?
VC like it or hate it is far from cycling advocacy. To me cycling advocacy would be pushing for things like share the road signs (bl if you like them). Better drivers ed for drivers relating to cycling.
Safety classes for both children and adults Programs to provide decent lights to those with out them. How about this for a idea state sponsored/donation sponsered lights. Put it place laws state wide making it illegal to cycle with out lights a night. But instead of ticketing the first time give the cyclists a light or voucher to get one. Any cyclist who did not put a light on their bike after that would damn well deserve a ticket. Hell im a bit of a ass id probably not mind seeing the person having their bike impounded. Simply put if you don't put the light on or get one and put it on with a voucher that gives you a free light theres soemthing wrong with you.
Lights are very basic safety devices at night you simply should not be with out one. I my self dont have a bike light and i don't ride at night. If something happens i have to i strap a flash light on my bike and toss the blinky on
rgerve
Sounds like you may need a lawyer.
nova
Sounds like you may need a lawyer.
Rofl lawyer v lawyer ....
rando
VC like it or hate it is far from cycling advocacy. To me cycling advocacy would be pushing for things like share the road signs (bl if you like them). Better drivers ed for drivers relating to cycling.
Safety classes for both children and adults Programs to provide decent lights to those with out them.
+1
khuon
You wasted a perfectly good opportunity. I would have said the following...
"Listen. We can both stand here in the middle of the street and argue with one another, taking up our respective time and blocking traffic. Or we can continue this discussion over a drink or lunch or dinner. How about you meet me at the McMenamins on lower Queen Anne around <insert convenient time>?"
:)
DataJunkie
For all we know she worked at McDonalds. People frequently lie while in confrontations.
I don't know how many times I have heard "I'm a cyclist for x amount of years. What you are doing is wrong" and always while I am obeying the law. Go figure.
Damned if you do. Damned if you don't. Personally, I believe that no matter what you do or how you ride, eventually you are going to make someone angry.
nova
VC like it or hate it is far from cycling advocacy. To me cycling advocacy would be pushing for things like share the road signs (bl if you like them). Better drivers ed for drivers relating to cycling.
Safety classes for both children and adults Programs to provide decent lights to those with out them. How about this for a idea state sponsored/donation sponsered lights. Put it place laws state wide making it illegal to cycle with out lights a night. But instead of ticketing the first time give the cyclists a light or voucher to get one. Any cyclist who did not put a light on their bike after that would damn well deserve a ticket. Hell im a bit of a ass id probably not mind seeing the person having their bike impounded. Simply put if you don't put the light on or get one and put it on with a voucher that gives you a free light theres soemthing wrong with you.
Lights are very basic safety devices at night you simply should not be with out one. I my self dont have a bike light and i don't ride at night. If something happens i have to i strap a flash light on my bike and toss the blinky on
Hmm bad taste to qoute your own post? heh
Just want to clarify a bit
I didn't really touch or explain why i don't see VC as cycling advocacy very well.
Heres what i mean. VC is more a style of riding than a method to get others in to riding or getting our rights to the road known. I met back up with a old friend of mine i've not talked to in like 5 years. Shes considering getting in to a cycling. The last time she has road a bike was when she was 6 with me (16) and her brother (14). Id never even consider trying to get her to ride VC. Instead im going to essentially teach her what rights she has to the road and whats legal. Things like how no city in ohio can ever force her on to the sidewalk regardless of what their invalid ords say. If she does not feel comfortable getting in the left turn lane to turn left but instead wants to turn right then find a safe place to cross so she can then take a spot at the light to finally get the direction we are going then great thats what we will do.
Ill explain to her that while this is legal to do its also legal for her to take the lane for the left turn just as a car does. If I tried telling her that she should ride in a VC manner it would scare her off not make her want to ride. VC requires you to be comfortable in traffic this level of comfort does not come with out experience. I know even HH has to agree here. Your putting your self in to a position that seems dangerous even if it is not. I don't think its wise to always take the center of a lane.
I see cycling advocacy as promoting cycling in general not as promoting a form of riding. I will make use of a side walk to put my self in a position where i can more easily and safely merge with traffic when i need to ride the wrong way. Example the local thrift store often has bikes so i stop there every chance i get. Its the one on ( chipcom back me up on this wooster road). Its right before a semi blind hill. So i ride up the side walk in this case with the flow of traffic about 50 60 feet at slow speed till i can see the cars coming. Then i cross to head home. There are places where i ride contraflow on the side walk to do the same thing. I don't go fast at all more like 3 or 4 mph. Sure its not VC but ill tell you its damn effective cycling. Ive had drivers yell "lucky *******" at me while their stuck there or "i wish i could do that" Ive said you can! just go to rd bike shop and get your self a bike :) Thats gotten more than a few "hmm"s from drivers. To me this is what cycling advocacy really is.
Its getting that driver to go hmm this guy might just have a point here. Or damn he sure seems to be having fun and a easy time with this mess.
I do silly things some times on my bike like this just as a way to strike up a conversation with a driver. If you can get a driver smiling and laughing and relaxed you might just get them in to cycling. If you are talkign to one and they ask questions like yeh but how many miles can you really ride? Or how can you get to work on a bike with out spending a extra hour commuting. Ive had those questions come up and i answered
Q
How far can you really ride a bike?
A
Well it depends on if im riding to work or if im riding for fun. I my self can do 10 12 15 miles to work with out being any more tired than if i got a ride from a friend.
Q
Well doesn't it take longer to get to work on a bike
A
sure some times maybe as long as 15 minutes longer. But other times if the road is flat and busy with cars stuck at lights for a few red green cycles i can get there faster than if i drove or got a ride. See that nice wide shoulder? I can ride on it and get past the traffic jam and its perfectly legal for me to do so as its a bike lane. (never had the chance to answer with the its a bike lane part before as we really have none here)
Most of the answer in the 2nd question i have said a few times. I know for a fact that it got at least oene driver only in to cycling and driving. He had a 30 mile trip to work daily. What he would do is ride half way to a local park in route and ride the other 15 miles :)