Folding Bikes - Kinn-Ovation

Anyboby have any experiece with K-O direct drive chainless folding bike.http//:www.kinn-ovations.com

I don't have experience but small flurries of discussion about them flare up here from time to time. Most people seem to be of the opinion a drive shaft is a bad idea because of a supposed inefficiency which leaves me scratching my head a little. I don't see many cars and trucks that use a chain-drive, and my days with the lego give me the impression it should be a good system if done well.

I suppose one concern is wear on the gearbox at either end - there is only room for so many teeth on small 45° transfer gears. so unless everyone had this system economies of scale probably mean replacing worn cogs in such a high load area would always be pricey. And chains fit any bike whereas driveshafts have to be 'just so' length.

I get the impression riding a bike with one would be very responsive - perhaps too responsive. Maybe it's to do with the slight 'give' in a chaindrive that makes it more humanlike to ride!?!?!?!?

Thoughts anyone? Bueller? anyone?

Welcome to the Kinn-Ovations web site for innovative chainless/drive shaft bicycles--the new technology for bicycles of the future.

Why does everybody who comes up with a driveshaft bicycle claims that this is the future ....

Shaft bicycles have been arund since 100 years .... they were actually ther rage in the late 30s than died cause of 20 % more powerloss than chaindriven bikes... Nowadays there is a bike company every 5 or so years which comes up with the revolutionairy idea and claims that this is the future ....

interesting claims they do have .... but I digress
whats wrong with the seatpost ??? only for real small people ?

wonder what the weight is ?

thor

I wonder what the gear ratios are for this bike since it doesn't have a chainring. I can just imagine how high 2nd gear would feel like. I guess you would probably have to change the sprocket to 16T to make it feel comfortable. At $400.00 USD, the bike is quite expensive and there are better alternatives from Dahon and Downtube.

Where did you get your facts from Thor ? (same place that says belts waste 20% too :) )

facts from workin in the industry for 30 plus years

shaft drive is more or less 20 % ....20 is actually pretty good for a shaft drive
belts have more various powerlosses, depends a lot of the quality of the belt, for example usually it varies between 20 to 30 % ... but again it changes easily

thor

Which industry ? ... 1880's victorian mills :) ....... Things have moved on since then.

Shaft efficiencies are in the low to mid 90%'s and belts mid to high 90% and lubricated chains are in the high 90's. A poorly lubricated / dirty dry chain is less efficient than a modern belt. Not exact % efficiencies as in each case it depends on the set up eg gear profiles, lubrication, bearings etc. (Similarly on belts, tension, twist, flanges and for chains - alignment, eg when chain not in line so side plates catch/rub. Also a hub gear when not in direct drive is much less efficient dropping 3 to 10%.

Shaft drive and belt drives do have a place, along with fully enclosed chain drives - especially for urban use where normal clothes are worn.

I do agree with you though, this particular bike looks pretty average

I am hoping to have some K-O user's opinion.
<Shaft drive and belt drives do have a place, along with fully enclosed chain drives - especially for urban use where normal clothes are worn.>
This seems to be my situation. I commute in my suit.
Durabilty/efficiency seem to be the concern. however K-O claim the technology is similar to the belt less drive system in the better motor cycle on the road today. I guess Durability is the only real issue?!

BMW has successfully used shaft drives on their motorcycles for years.

I have no experience of this particular bike, but have ridden a shaft drive bike for about 10 miles - I didn't notice any particular reduction in efficiency, but I did notice the extra weight (approx 1.0Kg extra). I also noticed a slight vibration but this was not a problem. The only other folding shaft bikes I've seen are Zero (http://www.zerocycles.co.uk/) bikes in the UK. Velovision did this review (http://www.velovision.co.uk/mag/issue10/shaftdrive.pdf)of a shaft bike. Other alternatives are Belt drives as on Strida (http://www.strida.com), and all enclosed chain guards which work well with hub gears .... this option might open more opportunities for you to be able to use any of the fold in half type bikes like Dahon and Downtube - no good for bikes that disturb the chain drive durring folding (like brompton, birdy) or with derailieur gears.

I know this post is old, but I got a chance to ride this bike last weekend. It's really a nice little bike.

Anyboby have any experiece with K-O direct drive chainless folding bike.http//:www.kinn-ovations.com

Quite a find there, wubrew (unless you work for them, heh heh heh).

A much lower price than the Dynamic shaft-drive folder too. I don't see the weight mentioned anywhere.

They also mention lubing the gear case (every 6 months I think), and that the warranty on the shaft drive is 1 year. My shaft drive (not a folder), doesn't mention any periodic service, and has lifetime on the shaft drive. Now it does look like this one has the same drive train (no separate tube for the shaft, but using one of the fork arms; and Shimano 3-speed hub), so I wonder why the maintenance and warranty are different.

Quite a find there, wubrew (unless you work for them, heh heh heh).
No I am not a "plant" like the dynamic thread. I started this thread when I was a newbie to the folding world. I googled and follow every site that came up under folding bicycle. Since then I have moved on. May be direct drive deserve a second look?

... May be direct drive deserve a second look?

I'm having a great experience with a shaft-drive bike. The technological arguments against it are bogus, see the Usenet thread in rec.bicycles.tech. The price points have now become affordable.