Advocacy & Safety - goddamn

this is straight up out of control.

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/local/story/441149p-371646c.html

Li'l Leaguer mowed down: Minivan kills B'klyn boy biking from game

By TANYANIKA SAMUELS, MICHAEL WHITE and JONATHAN LEMIRE
DAILY NEWS STAFF WRITERS

A 10-year-old boy biking home from his championship baseball game was struck and killed by a minivan in Brooklyn last evening, police said.
Shamar Porter, who was still wearing his Little League uniform, suffered severe head injuries in the horrific 6:40 p.m. crash, cops said.

"Everybody knew him. He was a prankster," said his devastated mother, Shawnette Porter. "He was into his sports and his video games and just being outside with his friends. He didn't care how hot it got."

"He was such a good boy," said the child's stunned grandmother, Patricia Porter, 49. "Everybody loved him. He loved his sports and he got good grades, too."

Shamar, an only child who was going into the fifth grade at Public School 213 in New Lots, was heading home after his team, the Athletics, won the game at Gershwin Park when the accident occurred. He was riding his bicycle south on Williams Ave. in East New York when he collided with the red minivan heading east on Linden Blvd.

The driver, who was not identified, remained at the scene and was not charged with any wrongdoing, police said.

However, in the tense moments after the accident, an angry mob tried to rip him from the vehicle before police restored order, cops said.

Shamar was rushed to Brookdale University Hospital, where he was pronounced dead.

A talented baseball player, Shamar was on two teams this summer, including one for kids older than he, his grandmother said.

"I was just with him last night," said Patricia Porter, standing near a makeshift memorial in front of the family's Sheffield Ave. "He was riding his bike up and down the street, just as happy as he could be," she continued. "He couldn't wait to play his game. He was so excited about the championship."

Thats pretty sad.

Atleast the driver stayed at the scene. Did the right thing. Must have been an accident, these things happen.

tragedy indeed.

Moving to Advocacy -
Might be a good idea to continue the dicussion in there, as I didn't see it in there yet.

Atleast the driver stayed at the scene. Did the right thing. Must have been an accident, these things happen.

Sad it is, but around here there are no accidents. The "cager" should be strung up by his testicles and beaten to death with a chainwhip. :rolleyes:

If I was a cop I'd have let the mob have at the driver, at least until back up arrived.

Since Linden blvd is a major road, it looks like Shamar may not have stopped or looked. It is sad, but when I was that age I thought I was immortal. It's a tough way to learn.

If I was a cop I'd have let the mob have at the driver, at least until back up arrived.
Do you have any more info, or do you just want him dead regardless of circumstances. What if this was a major road and he just turned in front of a car or ran a red light?

Sad it is, but around here there are no accidents. The "cager" should be strung up by his testicles and beaten to death with a chainwhip. :rolleyes:

Is this guilt because he drove a vehicle? How do you know what happened? Sounds as if the young boy may have gone through a stop sign. Note that the story says he collided with a van.

I was being sarcastic, but you'll find a lot here that say that the "cager" was guilty because he was driving a car. In this forum, even if the circumstances clearly indicate that there was some circumstance that was beyond the driver's control, and God forbid even if the cyclist caused the accident, the "cager" should still smoke a turd in hell because they killed a cyclist. After all, the consequences of their actions can have a more drastic effect on "innocent victims" than if a cyclist was just as irresponsible.

my thought is that is someone were to step infront of a gun that you're about to shoot and you shoot them you will be charged with man slaughter or whatever else you did, a car should be looked at in the same way

If I was a cop I'd have let the mob have at the driver, at least until back up arrived.

If that were to happen, drivers would have a valid excuse to flee the scene of an accident. Can you imagine everyone's reaction on this board if the driver, fearing for his or her safety, had peeled out leaving the poor kid to die? The police exist to enforce the LAW, not turn people over to a lynch mob.

my thought is that is someone were to step infront of a gun that you're about to shoot and you shoot them you will be charged with man slaughter or whatever else you did, a car should be looked at in the same way
That analogy breaks down. The laws of physics don't always work the way you want them to work. In situations involving a car, the vehicle which delivers the killing effect may already be "in flight". Sure the operator must take prudent and appropriate actions to avoid a collision but there are certainly circumstances which may thwart all such attempts. What this case really boils down to is answering these questions:
Did the driver create a dangerous situation by action or inaction regarding vehicular operation?
Did the cyclist create a dangerous situation by action or inaction regarding vehicular operation?
Did an external force outside of the driver's control create a dangerous situation?
Did an external force outside of the cyclist's control create a dangerous situation?
Was the situation which led to the collision expected or unexpected by the driver?
Was the situation which led to the collision expected or unexpected by the cyclist?
Was the driver properly prepared to handle the expected or unexpected situation?
Was the cyclist properly prepared to handle the expected or unexpected situation?Depending on the answers to those questions, the fault/blame may be attributed to the driver, the cyclist or the driver and the cyclist in varying degrees.

A grissly scene 10 years ago.
My 3yo Persion gets out of the house. Wife and I spend hours calling him to come back in. Darkness falls. We hear screaching tires and think oh ****. We run out to find a teenage girl in a car crying. She helps us find him under our hedge. We take him to the animal hospital. He is still alive today with titanium pins in both hips.
1. The hospital vet blamed us for letting him out.
2. The girl appologised for running him over.
3. We are stupid ****s for having cats.

Who is to blame for this?

We are stupid ****s for having cats.



An understatement for sure... but I have three so what do I know?!:o

If I was a cop I'd have let the mob have at the driver, at least until back up arrived.


Those on bikes tend to be on the losing end when involved in a collision regardless of fault. This does not make them the helpless victim however. It is entirely possible that it was the biker's fault.

I once hit a 15 yo on a bike with my car. He was running a red light and going the wrong way on a major road. Because he was going the wrong way across the intersection, I had no way of seeing him until he was within two feet of the right side of my car. There was a long line of cars and a van to the right of me obstructing my view. Not that I expected someone to be running a red light while going the wrong way!

I slammed on the brakes, but he bounced off my hood anyway. Fortunately I was only going 25 in a 35 since I was in a turning lane. Immediately, I was baraged with insults and threats by the other drivers at the intersection. The kid's bike was pretty well smashed and the kid had a very minor injury to his leg. My hood was dented.

I spoke to the police and they agreed that it was 100% the kid's fault. Despite it being his fault, there was still the mob mentality threatening me. I understand that people want to assume that "cagers" are always at fault since those on bikes are essentially helpless and unprotected in an accident. But it just isn't so.

Tragic.....regardless of who's fault it was, I hope some changes happen there to attempt to make the area safer, such as no large shrubs around intersections, etc.

I've never been in the area, so I don't know what it's like...but most areas have all kinds of crap blocking the view of intersections.

my thought is that is someone were to step infront of a gun that you're about to shoot and you shoot them you will be charged with man slaughter or whatever else you did, a car should be looked at in the same way

And what if that gun was fired on a firing range? What if the car was doing EVERY thing legally? Being on a bike does not make you innocent of every possible driving law.

If I was a cop I'd have let the mob have at the driver, at least until back up arrived.

Showing your true calling as part of the Hitler Youth again I see? Idjit.

complete speculation here, but if there is an area with a ton of kids around you gotta pay attention. kids are predictable in that they are unpredictable. too many times i've seen drivers hauling ass through school zones, where kids play, etc. even if they're going the speed limit, it's not good enough. slow down to 15 if you have to, if it saves a life, then it's worth it. too many people think the speed limit is the speed minimum.

For christ sake people, lighten up, I was being a smart ass. Give me a ****ing break! Youdon't have to be *******s about something I say.

More then likely I would place the driver in my cruiser until back up arrived to protect him or her from the mob. First I would try words to keep the mob back, then if needed I'd draw some sort of weapon, starting with a less then lethal as a threat of force to keep the mob at bay. As a last resort I'd draw my firearm as a method to keep the mob at bay. I would first try to use the weapon as a show of force, then if I had to I'd fire.

Typically when it comes to mob mentality when you just show a weapon as a show of force when one person in the mob backs down they all follow suit.

If the driver is found to be at fault I would probably like to turn his or her ass over to the mob but instead I'd arrest him or her & take them to jail if it was an arrestable offense, otherwise he or she would probably get a ticket & be sent on their way.

blah, blah, blah, blah-blah-blah, blah, blah-blah, blah....

nuff said

For christ sake people, lighten up, I was being a smart ass. Give me a ****ing break! Youdon't have to be *******s about something I say.

And you're a mason? You should know there are some things you just don't joke about.

Atleast the driver stayed at the scene. Did the right thing. Must have been an accident, these things happen.

"Accident" is an ambiguous term and should be banned from any discussion of vehicle collisions. The key element is whether the driver was negligent. Could the death have been prevented by the actions of a reasonable driver. Unfortunately, society has not come to an agreement on what constitutes reasonable driving behavior.

"Accident" is an ambiguous term and should be banned from any discussion of vehicle collisions. The key element is whether the driver was negligent. Could the death have been prevented by the actions of a reasonable driver. Unfortunately, society has not come to an agreement on what constitutes reasonable driving behavior.

Not really into the banning of words....

The key element is not whether the driver was negligent, but whether the driver and/or the cyclist was negligent. Being a cyclist is not a guarantee of innocence.

Whats the full story? Was the kid at fault or the driver?

It is indeed a tragedy, but we do not have enough information to draw any conclusions from it. The boy was heading south and the minivan east, so they were at right angles, which I take to mean one of them blew or maybe rushed a light or stop sign. And I wonder if "severe head injuries" means he wasn't wearing a helmet. (I know, it's not a guarantee.) Beyond these educated guesses, we have nothing to go on.

However, I would be surprised if they were both acting exactly as they should have.