Advocacy & Safety - 50kph/30mph statewide speed limit!

On March 1st our state will introduce 50kph speed limits for all suburban roads and the CBD. Main arterial roads will still be 60kph but all other roads will have a default speed of 50.
The advertising campaign informs people that if they are unsure of the speed limit then assume it is 50, that is the default speed now. There is a 3 month introduction period where police will be issuing warnings only, unless you are over the old 60 limit.

As a cyclist I am glad that this is happening and will be keeping an interest in how it will be policed.

As a driver (don't drive much), I am concerned that most cars are not designed to drive so slow in fourth gear. Most cars will have to be in third gear which creates more pollution, and is generally bad for the gearbox.
In a sports car the driver could be in second gear, not a great idea either. Unfortunately many councils are still going to keep their 40kph zones with speed humps even after the 50kph zone has been introduced. So we will have 40, 50 and 60 zones dependig on which street you turn into. Very confusing and a messy with speed signs all over the place.

Should be interesting!

CHEERS.

Mark

Dutchy, they've been doing this in NSW and Qld for a few years now. In NSW it seems to be helping and making a lot of the towns I visit safer places to ride. In Qld, however, they simply don't bother enforcing the law, so it's the same as it always was.

Go to England, the default is 60mph out in rural country!

I am not really that familiar with what the laws are on rural roads in the USA. But in the suburbs and towns of any size, on any street where there are houses, children, or oldsters about, the speed limit should be 30 MPH (50 kph, approx). Thats as fast as I go. Maybe little miss soccermom might be anxious to get her darling daughter to the field for kickoff time; but I don't go any faster.

roughstuff

60Mph is 100Kph. Still slower than most of the US where speed limits are 70 to 75mph (about 120kph) or even higher.

Originally posted by cycletourist
60Mph is 100Kph. Still slower than most of the US where speed limits are 70 to 75mph (about 120kph) or even higher.

I don't know of an states with limits that high. In Mass, it's 65 MPH on the highways. In the city, 30-40 but mostly in the 30 MPH range.

Out here, the big highways are 65mph, and the default for rural roads seems to be as fast as you go on the highways, with slight allowances in places where you might be at risk of hitting a deer, cow, or child...

30mph everywhere sounds lovely.....

In my area residentail speed limits are just a little less than 50 kph and most city thouroughfares are posted between 50-75kph.

What needs to be remembered is that in Detroit, speed limits, stop signs, and traffic lights are mere suggestions. Nothing except vigorous enforcement of posted signs, devices, and limits has any effect on most drivers here.

Speed bumps and potholes seem to be the most effective way to limit speeds here.

regards
Dan

In the state of Oregon, a few really stupid right-wing state legislators want to raise the rural speed limit to 75 mph; I think this is on INterstates but may be on some state roads. What the heck; hicks in the sticks like to drive with their dicks!

Originally posted by Stor Mand
I don't know of an states with limits that high. In Mass, it's 65 MPH on the highways. In the city, 30-40 but mostly in the 30 MPH range. Try Florida on the interstate highway system

Originally posted by Raiyn
Try Florida on the interstate highway system

The limit is 75 MPH in FLA?!? You would think that would be the last place to have it that high?

Several western states have speed limits of 70 - 75 mph. Missouri is 60-65 depending on the road. Interstate44 is 70 I think.

There are 75 mph roads in Virginia, they are everywhere. Personally I think it's fine on these big superhighways. With today's cars better handling and braking, we are safer at 75 then we were 30 years ago at 55 (as long as the trucks go a little slower).

My bigger concern is how to get all the yahoos to stay under 30 mph in the 25 mph zones in the neighborhoods.

In many California residential neighborhoods, we have to fight to maintain a 25mph/40kph speed limit, because of a homicidally-written state law which requires that speed limits be set at/above the 85th percentile of motorist speeds. That's right, folks, the fastest 15 percent of motorists set the speed limit for everyone. Wonderful!

Originally posted by John E
In many California residential neighborhoods, we have to fight to maintain a 25mph/40kph speed limit, because of a homicidally-written state law which requires that speed limits be set at/above the 85th percentile of motorist speeds. That's right, folks, the fastest 15 percent of motorists set the speed limit for everyone. Wonderful!
This is a Sin.

(Say John, does this apply during a traffic jam when average speeds rarely exceed 5 mph? :roflmao: )

Originally posted by cycletourist
Several western states have speed limits of 70 - 75 mph. Missouri is 60-65 depending on the road. Interstate44 is 70 I think.

On Washington interstates, it's 70MPH outside of major cities and 60MPH around them. I was recently on a drive from Phoenix to Albaquerque and the speed limit on I-40 was 75MPH. All throughout Michigan... even passing through suburban areas, the speed limit is 70MPH. It's only when you get into the actual city that it drops to 65MPH. Now keep in mind that these are all POSTED speed limits. The default speed limits can be different. For instance, in MI, it's 65MPH for freeways, 55MPH for highways and 25MPH for residential and business streets. In WA, it's 60MPH on highways, 50MPH on county roads and 25MPH on city roads. Keep in mind that the roadway definitions vary from state to state. For instance, California defines a highway as any street with a curb that seperates pedestrain from vehicle traffic. This means that streets like Market St. in downtown San Fran are considered highways. A freeway is a street with limited access.

Here is a link that shows all the US speed limits by state. Just a few years ago Montana had no speed limit, only left as "resonable and prudent" which has been changed for obvious reasons.

http://www.hwysafety.org/safety_facts/state_laws/speed_limit_laws.htm

Originally posted by add229
Here is a link that shows all the US speed limits by state. Just a few years ago Montana had no speed limit, only left as "resonable and prudent" which has been changed for obvious reasons.

http://www.hwysafety.org/safety_facts/state_laws/speed_limit_laws.htm

Wasn't there a whole bunch of states that got rid of daytime speed limits for cars?

Originally posted by Spire
Wasn't there a whole bunch of states that got rid of daytime speed limits for cars?

Just Montana for a couple years, back to having a speed limit now.

There are a few highways in this part of Tennessee that are 70mph posted speed limit. Most of the trafic on these roads run in the 75mph range with out a thought of being stopped and issued a trafic citation. These roads are limited access and are much more like an interstate, 4 lanes with a broad shoulder, than a state highway. All these roads have the bike route sign posted on them and you see riders using them with in feet of 75mph trafic. I have done this myself, but prefer to take the quieter 2 lane roads that the fast 4 lane has replaced. The problem is when the drivers hit the 2 lane they drive like they are on a limited access 4 lane highway!

This law (the 50 km/h limit in South Australia) is a total crock, purely designed to raise more money from speeding fines.

With the passage of this law, there will be three urban speed limits - 40 km/h, 50 km/h and 60 km/h.

The advertising claims that if there is no sign then the limit is 50 km/h. This is not true.
In the legislation, councils and the state government can put any speed limit they like - there is no requirement for them to put up signs advising the limit !

The Prospect council has 40 km/h speed limits on 'byways' ( there is no definition of a 'byway' ), without a single speed sign.
There are very few 60 km/h signs on 'arterial' roads (there is no defintion of an 'arterial' road). Arterial roads in Adelaide are not necessarily the wide, multi-laned roads like USA or Europe - many are goat-tracks that can barely fit two cars across.

This means that unless you have psychic powers or a photographic memory, you really don't know what the speed limit is (and they often change along sections of road between traffic lights, not just after intersections).
The only notification required is that the changes to speed limits are advertised in The Goverment Gazette - that no-one reads.

This means that unless you have psychic powers or a photographic memory, you really don't know what the speed limit is

You are absolutely correct. I have noticed that Cross rd, West Tce and Greenhill rd now have 60 signs. Duthy St is a main rd but is a 50 zone, with not one single sign. The only way I know it is a 50 zone is because I read it in the paper.

The commercial I saw last night said "when turning from a main road onto a side street the limit is now 50" and it shows 2 children riding their bikes across an intersection. Do they really expect us to believe that this is all being done so children can ride safely in the street?

The government said that there would be an 3 month education program to warn drivers of the new laws. In today's paper I read this "police were analysing data to identify 50km/h zone hot spots and would introduce speed cameras to the zones by the end of the week". So much for a 3 month period, more like 6 days!

CHEERS.

Mark

PS. From what I have seen the new limit doesn't apply to buses.:crash:

Originally posted by Stor Mand
I don't know of an states with limits that high. In Mass, it's 65 MPH on the highways. In the city, 30-40 but mostly in the 30 MPH range.
Most of the country has higher limits than does the northeast. Texas is 70 on 2 and 4 lane rural highways except in metropolitan areas. In some "air quality zones" they've dropped it 5MPH even away from the cities. Around Dallas-Ft. Worth you have to get a full county away before the speed limits go back up to 70.

Oklahoma is 70 on most highways and 75 on turnpikes.

New Mexico is 75 on most rural 4-lanes, I don't remember how fast the 2 lanes were.

Arizona is 70 or 75. Nevada I don't recall, but I think it was 75.

Montana and one or two other states have no speed limit on rural freeways. Come to think of it, Nevada might be one of those states. I know it was before the defunct 55MPH speed limit. I remember when a buddy and I were headed from CO to CA across NV in his SuperBee. It was my turn driving and I was cruising along at about 125MPH when I saw a highway patrol way up ahead. I figured I'd slow down when I got a little closer to him but it took me forever to catch him. When I finally did I eased on by at 125 and he did nothing but glance over and then go back to eating his sandwich at 120MPH or thereabouts.

Missouri is 70 on most 4-lanes, not sure about rural 2-lanes.

Residential streets are pretty universally 30MPH or 35MPH in dense areas and 40MPH or 45MPH on the outskirts of towns. Here in Texas most school zones are 20MPH and very strictly enforced. School zones on major roads are generally 30MPH.

John

High speeds (like above) in MA will generally get you a trip to jail and/or huge fines, as well as the farce of the insurance companies tacking on surcharges for several years, even for minor offenses. Generally, highway speeds are running 75-80 mph, though the speed limit is 65 mph.

Originally posted by Stor Mand
High speeds (like above) in MA will generally get you a trip to jail and/or huge fines, as well as the farce of the insurance companies tacking on surcharges for several years, even for minor offenses. Generally, highway speeds are running 75-80 mph, though the speed limit is 65 mph.
I get a ticket about every 4 or 5 years. That's the real point of speed limits anyway, to generate some revenue for the state. When you have highways (out west) that were designed for 90MPH traffic in the 60s, and that were pretty darn safe at that speed even in 60's and 70's vintage automobiles, it's kind of hard to swallow a 60 or even 70 MPH limit on that highway "for safety" when 99% of the cars on the road today handle much better than those of thirty years ago and are far safer when a crash does happen.

In most places they set speed limits at 80 to 85% of what drivers would prefer to drive and the reason is all about revenue. At that level not too many people will raise heck (i.e. vote the state legislatures out) about the low speed limits and they'll still have enough speeders to make some bucks for the gov'ner.

John

Originally posted by HalfHearted

In most places they set speed limits at 80 to 85% of what drivers would prefer to drive and the reason is all about revenue. At that level not too many people will raise heck (i.e. vote the state legislatures out) about the low speed limits and they'll still have enough speeders to make some bucks for the gov'ner.


Actually, the real reason for speed limits is the fact that most drivers simply don't have the competence to drive any faster. Forget what people would prefer to drive at - the fact is, when most people get behind the wheel of a car they tend to lose their rationality. Even as it is we've had people caught driving at > 200km/h around here in urban areas.

Why do you think we also need rules about which side of the road to drive on? Or lines painted on the road telling people this? Or traffic lights? If the majority of drivers could act rationally, we wouldn't need any of this.

My only problem with speed limits is that the fines for breaking them aren't high enough. What's the point of fining someone $81 or whatever. Personally, I think it should be an amount that people can't buget for, like $1,000+. And if people don't want to pay the fines and give money to the "big bad evil government", they should just drive at or below the posted speed limit and it wouldn't be a problem.

If you get a ticket in MA, it will basically cost a thousand dollars - cost of the ticket plus insurance surcharges.

Originally posted by Stor Mand
If you get a ticket in MA, it will basically cost a thousand dollars - cost of the ticket plus insurance surcharges.

Most people don't think of that, so it isn't really a deterrent. I say, make it so just the ticket itself is worth $1,000.

Chris L,

Nope, it's all about revenue ;) At least here in the US. I agree with you that laws are necessary and some people wouldn't be able to operate safely without them. However, I think most of the people who wouldn't be able to operate safely without them are the same idiots who drive like maniacs in spite of the laws.

But, if it were about safety they'd patrol more heavily in areas where there are frequent accidents. They don't. They patrol in areas where the road is good and traffic moves well because that's where people are speeding. In those "surprise" areas that generate a lot of accidents because poor road design "sneaks up" on unaware drivers even when they're not speeding, you almost never see a patrol car. (And they don't fix the problems with the road design until either a spectacular multi-fatality accident or a whole string of fatality accidents in a short time span generates a lot of embarrassing news coverage.)

On my 40+ mile commute I know exactly where the cops are most likely to be found and I know where I've seen multiple accidents over the years. There isn't a single overlap between the two.

If it were about safety then tickets written would be more or less evenly spaced throughout the month. They aren't. I see four to five times as many speed traps during the last three days of the month here in Ft. Worth as I do during the rest of the month.

If it were about safety they'd make drivers prove competency behind the wheel. They don't. Most of the kids getting driver's licenses here have about ten hours behind the wheel when they get their license. The driver's test is a joke. Drive around the block and parallel park. That's about it. If you take driver's ed you don't even have to take a driving test administered by the DMV, instead your driver's ed instructor "tests" you. At the last house we lived in our driveway was about 70 feet long and straight as a Kansas highway and some of my daughter's friends who'd just gotten their licenses couldn't back down the driveway and out the double gate in one try. And we won't even talk about senior citizens who can't see over the steering wheel and have advanced alzheimers but keep getting their licenses renewed by mail.

A few years ago the good citizens of Fort Worth passed a "crime control" sales tax increase so the police could hire more officers. Within several weeks of the new tax becoming effective I saw the number of speed traps on my daily commute double. I guess that writing tickets is a lot safer than serving warrants and pursuing felons.

The city of Dallas recently instituted a new program for rating their officers. They get points for various activities like making felony arrests, writing tickets, and so on. The scores are weighted so that writing traffic tickets (i.e. generating revenue) has the highest "cost / benefit" ratio for officers -- i.e. the way they can make the most points for the least amount of time spent. If it were about safety the "cost / benefit" ratio would be higher for things like making felony arrests and conducting field sobriety tests.

So, I agree in principal that some law is necessary but I'm not blind to the fact that the vast majority of traffic laws, and especially of traffic law enforcement, is about generating revenue, not enhancing safety. And, I don't really complain about it, much ;)

I drive whatever speed I feel is safe. The only accident I've had in 26 years of driving, much of it commuting 500 miles a week, was a couple of years ago when a silly twit of a college student decided to pass me on a residential street when I was turning left. In almost all cases I would not be driving any faster even if the speed limit were higher. So, every four or five years I get my ticket and pay it just like I pay all of my other taxes :D

John

HalfHearted,

You make some valid points. I have to agree with you (man, that was hard to type!). I myself was going to make the point about the lack of testing drivers go through, but I forgot all about it. It's a shame that laws that were probably well intended initially are being abused by law-enforcement now. I think what we need here is a change to the enforcement policy, fast!

Originally posted by Chris L
I have to agree with you (man, that was hard to type!).
Why? Are you disagreeable? :lol:

In my 26 years of driving I've seen law enforcement slide steadily downhill, unfortunately. Maybe I was just naive when younger, but I always felt that cops were supposed to be the good guys. Now, I see cops behaving very badly all the time, knowing they can get away with it. There is a Fort Worth police officer that lives out here in Weatherford. He drives a patrol unit home (hey Fort Worth residents, aren't you glad you passed that tax increase so the cops can commute at your expense?!) and drives like a madman on the freeway. I've seen him two or three times in the morning and a couple of times in the evening speeding, tailgaiting to intimidate people out of his way and doing all the things he spends the rest of the day ticketing others for. I've tried to keep up with him a couple of times and could not do so even at my most wreckless. He blows right through speed traps at "twenty over" because he knows his buds on the local police forces won't ticket him. Just another symptom of the decline and fall of modern society, I guess.

I've reported his unit number to the Ft. Worth police and maybe it finally did some good. The last time I saw him he was still driving faster than traffic but not as aggressively as before.

It still boggles my mind that the Ft. Worth police department lets officers use patrol cars to commute to their homes 25 miles away in other counties, though. (Maybe it's his girlfriend's home and he officially lives in the city?) In any case, your tax dollars at work, Fort Worth.

A few years ago I was coming back from Louisiana late one night and had to take sharp evasive action to dodge a Dallas cop who lost control of his vehicle while crossing the median to chase down a speeder. The guy he was in such a wreckless hurry to catch had passed me doing about ten miles over the limit on an almost empty eight-lane highway, not unsafe at all. The cop bounced through the median sliding sideways and out of control and would have T-boned me in the left center lane if I hadn't seen him just in time to dodge two lanes to the right. That cop was far more dangerous than the speeder that he chased down and stopped. It kind of surprised me that he had the nerve to go on and stop the guy after pulling such a bone-headed stunt himself.

John

Your worried about 3 different zones and are confused over them? Try the States mate! You got your 25mph school zone (some communties use 20), 25mph in some residential and 35 in others; 40 or 45 in city streets; 50 on larger city streets; 60 or 65 on populated in city freeways; 70 or 75 on rural freeways with some states slowing you down to 65 at night.

Personally I believe they should limit school zones to 20mph when children are present of course, 30 in residential; 45 in city (regardless if the streets are large or not); 75 on city freeways (they will never acheive that speed anyway due to gridlock); and they should have unlimited speed limits on rural freeways or back country highways and roads and enforce the use of the right lane (which is our slow lane here) at all times unless passing another car than move to the next left lane to pass than back to the right.