Recreational & Family - "Girls" bikes

My daughter is 10 and is about to outgrow the 24" Trek I bought used for her a year or so ago. I have an 8 year old boy as well. She and I ride together on weekends - not really far but I'd like to get to where we could go on long rides together. I want to get her on a small frame 26" pretty soon - do I have to buy my girl a 'girl' bike? It would be cool to be able to buy her a nicer bike that she could hand down to my son. The Trek will have to be sold and another bike bought for my son because of the girl frame.

What is your take on girl bikes - needed for girls or just a throwback to past times? She wants another hardtail mountain bike. We don't ride offroad, she just likes being able to cut across fields and curbs.

Thanks,
Mike.

Step through frames are a throwback to when it was damn near maditory for women to wear dresses. However, I find them useful with child seats, as you can't kick your leg over the seat. Also, certian members of clergy still use them.

As for Trek, get her a 13" or 15" 3500 MTB. It has a ridgid fork, but that will teach them better handling skills.

Does she have a preference?

Girl's bikes are the new boy's bikes.

Unless she specifically prefers a woman's frame bike, I would suggest getting her a small frame mens bike , 13" or 15" as suggested above. The mens frame bar makes the frame a bit sturdier but she has to be able to dismount off of the bike without difficulty and without hitting the bar. If she is more comfortable with a conventional ladies frame then by all means get her that. About 2 years ago ,when my 14 year old daughter was then 12, I purchased a new ATB for her and gave her the choice of frames. She felt more comfortable on a ladies frame so that is what she rides. We ride as a family on rail trails, with my daughter on her ladies ATB and my wife prefers a ladies frame hybrid. To each his or her own !

I'm in a similar situation as you. My daughter is outgrowing her current bike, and the next size up is the 24" kids frame. So we went to the LBS and looked around. They suggested a small adult frame, 13" or 14", as it will last a lot longer than the year or so I might get from the 24". I'm actually considering the Trek 4300 or 4500 for her. Being a girl, however, she doesn't like the colors of the men's frames, so I'm looking at the WSD (women's specific design) for these bikes. They start at 14", so I'll probably have to wait for 4 or 5 months for it to fit her. My understanding is the the WSD frames also have shorter reach brake levers, and since my daughter has small hands, I think that'll work. Also, she likes the colors a whole lot :)

Her current bike is a hardtail, and she's ready to go on some longer and tougher trails, so that's why I'm looking up the Trek line a bit. She even watched a short track race with me, and there was a girl her age competing, so I think it'll be the best bang for the buck. Good luck to you!

First of all, the whole terminology is so obsolete! A true woman-specific bike would still have a horizontal (not slanted) top tube, since nothing in female anatomy suggests that she can't wear pants or dismount by swinging her leg over the saddle... However, that bike would have geometry that is geared toward the more typical female anatomical proportions (e.g. narrower handlebars due to narrower shoulders, anatomically correct seat, different length of top and seat tubes etc.).

The "ladies" bikes sold at department stores today have none of these features. All they have is a slanted top tube, and all that does is make mounting and dismounting easier, but at a cost of a more fragile (or heavier - to compensate for the mechanically inferior design) frame.

So designating bikes as being for men and women based on the angle of the top tube is ridiculous. It's all about whether you prefer a slightly sturdier, lighter, stiffer, faster bike or an easier and safer mount/dismount procedure. In no way is this gender-specific, so in theory the girl's brother should be just fine riding a "ladies" frame. However, little kids are dumb and love to tease other little kids, so I suggest you get you daughter a "boy's" bike if you want it to serve as her brother's bike later. Just because most little boys won't be caught dead on a "girl's" bike, regardless of how stupid this designation to start with. On the other hand, "boy's" bikes are typically known as "just bikes" and nobody usually makes fun of girls for riding one.

The smaller frame sizes vary little or not at all between the mens and womens. Women specific bikes will have a shorter top tube, narrower handlebars, smaller brake levers, wider saddles.

Check this site out: http://www.teamestrogen.com/wsdBikes.asp

Many small 26" wheel bikes are way overbuilt for the stresses any small rider can create.
The Terry Susan B (http://www.terrybicycles.com/cycling_savvy/susanb.html)is quite highly rated for road and light trail riding.
There is a strong market for used SBs so they hold their value well.

If you want to import, try the new range of Islabikes, www.islabikes.co.uk - they have been verywell reviewed in the UK press and deservedly so. Three members of my Kids Saturday Bike Club have them. They are very well specc'ed and the prportions are designed for children, esp. crank lengths and brake lever size/ease of operation.

My daughter is very fussy about things, and really wanted a "girl's bike" so she could get on it easily, without having to swing her leg over. To me this is silly, but to her it's an issue, so I bought her a "girl's bike". The difference in strength and stiffness isn't going to make a difference to her at this point. If it gets her to ride, a "girl's bike" is da bomb. If she ever gets more serious about riding she can get a "real bike".

One advantage to the "women's" frame...it will have a much lower standover height, possibly allowing your daughter to get on that adult bike earlier.

For the '07 model year, Trek has added WSD features to bikes all the way down to the 820. The 820, 3700, and 3900 WSDs all come as women's frames. The horizontal top tube doesn't appear until the 4300. And the lower end WSDs have extremely "kid-friendly" color schemes and paint jobs.

My teenaged girl rides my old Gary Fisher, but my wife who has short legs needs a step through frame.

I want to add to what I wrote before. First of all, I think "boys' bikes" are better. Their stiffer and stronger. No serious woman cyclist I know rides a "girls' bike". However, there are girls, like my daughter, who prefer a girls' bike for the reasons stated above.

I suggest you talk to your daughter. Tell her that boys' bikes are stronger, and that no serious woman cyclist rides a girls' bike. Tell her that girls' bikes were designed during a time when girls had to wear skirts and it was considered unladylike to swing a leg over a bike. Ask her if she wants to go back to those days when women were second-class citizens.

If she still wants a girls' bike, get her one. She'll be more inclined to ride it than if you push her into getting a boys bike.

Nothing wrong with a step through frame, nor are they only for women. I see many elderly prefer and ride step through frames because it's just easier to handle/balance when grocery shopping or just getting on a bike. As long as a bike does what you want it to and you are having fun, who can really criticize one's choice/preference? Some mountain bikes geometry are so low and compact, they could easily be mounted or stepped over without having to swing your leg to any great degree and that could be a viable alternative, esp if it's going to be used by kids of either sex.

My teenaged girl rides my old Gary Fisher, but my wife who has short legs needs a step through frame.

Some are made with very low top tubes. Although there are a lot of women who are under 5' (50% of women of Japanese descent are under 5') and millions are 4'9" or less, so even a WSD design will begin to approach a step-thru at some point.

I really like this trend of modified diamond frames becoming more acceptable for women cyclists. It has been too long coming. Frames like the following just don't look like a good idea for a bicycle:

I have 3 daughters aged 7, 11, 16. Since they are the daughters of a crazed bike nut, they have 10 bikes to use. They have 20", 24", and 26" bikes to use. We even have a tandem that the 11 and 16 year old can ride. They love that because the younger one can keep up and they can talk easier while riding. The 12" pink schwinn with matching streamers is still hanging in the rafters of the garage though they are all now too old to ride it. The 16 year old recently asked if she could have "her" pink bike when she moved out!

Anyway I find that girls do like girl featured bikes. The 1972 blue, "lil Chick with the matching blue flower seat sceams out girl and they all hit a stage where they love that bike. I find that they are drawn to that. We also have a few Mixtie style frames, which have the effect of giving more stand over room, while, (now hear comes the claim), are often stronger than triangle frames. Color is important. No self respecting american girl, (pre 13) would choose a black bike. The favorite colors are purple, pink, white, and red. Though I am not a fan of streamers I indulged them so that my fanatisizism does not chase them off. Thankfully they seem to give up their interest in streamers when they hit 13.

I think that most kids under 14 do not need a shock but these are on almost every bike over 250 bucks. The shocks on most kids bikes really are not worth it. They wear out quickly. A 70 pound kid can kill a standard shock fork in a year or two. And could if so inclined fly 20 feet through the air and land with no shock fork and no knee pain! Shocks add weight, and suck the power of of the kid's pedal stroke.

I would encourage you to buy a bike, specific to that kid's size and tastes. Dont overlook used bikes. In fact one of the best bikes I got for them, I paid only $140 used-- for a canandale c300 in mint condition. Even though they did not pick that bike, (dad just showed up with it one day), they love it because it is so light and easy to spin.

One advantage to the "women's" frame...it will have a much lower standover height, possibly allowing your daughter to get on that adult bike earlier.

For the '07 model year, Trek has added WSD features to bikes all the way down to the 820. The 820, 3700, and 3900 WSDs all come as women's frames. The horizontal top tube doesn't appear until the 4300. And the lower end WSDs have extremely "kid-friendly" color schemes and paint jobs.

We were looking at a 4300 WSD just this past weekend. Nice bike and the 16" fit her perfectly. Sadly (for her) it only comes in silver - she likes blue. She like the bike a lot, so she may get over the color thing.

Although there are a lot of women who are under 5' (50% of women of Japanese descent are under 5') and millions are 4'9" or less,

I just had to look this up and confirm.

"According to the latest report, the average height of 17 year-olds for the year 2000 was 170.8 centimeters for males, and 158.1 centimeters for females. The same figures for 1900 were 157.9 and 147 centimeters, which means that in the space of 100 years, the height of Japanese teenage boys has risen by 12.9 centimeters, and of Japanese girls, by 11.1 centimeters. This is a remarkable increase when one considers that the height of Japanese of the Jomon and Yayoi periods increased by only five to eight centimeters over the space of some 10,000 years."

Thats a little under 5' 2" for the girls. Although, they did only measure 17 year olds and does not take into account the older women who would be shorter if the trend line from 1900 is followed. I know many asian women, and almost all are 5'3" and above. Maybe western asians are taller still?


Sadly (for her) it only comes in silver - she likes blue. She like the bike a lot, so she may get over the color thing.
May not be worth the expense but you could get it painted. Depending on what kind of paint job you had done, I'd guess $100 and up. Probably $2-300 if you had a nice one with stickers reapplied. But that really is a guess. Dr D.?

I just had to look this up and confirm.

"According to the latest report, the average height of 17 year-olds for the year 2000 was 170.8 centimeters for males, and 158.1 centimeters for females. The same figures for 1900 were 157.9 and 147 centimeters, which means that in the space of 100 years, the height of Japanese teenage boys has risen by 12.9 centimeters, and of Japanese girls, by 11.1 centimeters. This is a remarkable increase when one considers that the height of Japanese of the Jomon and Yayoi periods increased by only five to eight centimeters over the space of some 10,000 years."


Actually it's even more amazing when you consider the biggest jump didn't occur until after WWII.

I did look up official statistics before posting what I did about women's heights. It is not surprising that 17-18 year olds are taller. My stats were from across the entire adult population.

I have three Asian female employees, all under 30, who are all under 5'0". I also see many Asian female students on campus (Wisconsin-Madison) who are around 5' or shorter. I'm only 5'7" and I tower over many of them.

I have a hard time finding men's bikes that fit me well, because I have a short inseam. So short that I cannot buy off-the-rack pants that fit me. I have to have them taken up. Getting a good fit on a bike when one has an upper torso of a 6-footer and the lower torso of a 5-footer is challenging.

I have a hard time finding men's bikes that fit me well, because I have a short inseam. So short that I cannot buy off-the-rack pants that fit me. I have to have them taken up. Getting a good fit on a bike when one has an upper torso of a 6-footer and the lower torso of a 5-footer is challenging.

You have more justification for a custom bike than most rec cyclists who have them.

I want to add to what I wrote before. First of all, I think "boys' bikes" are better. Their stiffer and stronger. No serious woman cyclist I know rides a "girls' bike". However, there are girls, like my daughter, who prefer a girls' bike for the reasons stated above.

I suggest you talk to your daughter. Tell her that boys' bikes are stronger, and that no serious woman cyclist rides a girls' bike.
Do you tell your daughter that she cannot be a "serious cyclist" until she prefers and rides a frame that meets your standards of seriousness?

The only problem with any road bike is the teenager's desire to conform. My oldest grand daughter loved the 24" mixte I gave her, especially when she found its highest gear allowed her to outrun most of the neighborhood boys on their mountain bikes. Later, at age 13, she informed me the bike wasn't " in style" anymore & wheedled her dad into buying a mountain bike in an appropriate girly shade of pink. The mixte is now in my son's basement waiting for little sister. Don

My oldest grand daughter loved the 24" mixte I gave her, especially when she found its highest gear allowed her to outrun most of the neighborhood boys on their mountain bikes. Later, at age 13, she informed me the bike wasn't " in style" anymore...
She doesn't look at the Classic & Vintage forum, does she :p ?

My personal recommendation would be to see about picking up a used mixte. Another thing to consider is, at a certain size level, it will be a lot easier to re-sell a traditional diamond frame than to re-sell a 'ladies' frame bicycle.

In my humble opiniion, of course.

East Hill

I commute year round on a bike with a step through frame. They are really good for either men or women, as they work as well with suits and overcoats as with dresses. My take is that stepthrough is to bike as door is to car. During the winter, I bash along over ice blocks for miles, and there are no structural problems.

I think a traditional "girls bike" sends a good message to your daughter that bikes are serious transportation, not weekend toys that require special clothing. However, what really matters is what your daughter wants. What is her preference?

Paul

I'm with Paul. I ride my bike every day. It is my main form of transportation. I go to work with it, take my groceries home on it, haul 40 lbs bags of cat litter with it, I even use it to take my cat to the vet. It's a step-through model, and my only bike. Is that serious enough, do you think?

She doesn't look at the Classic & Vintage forum, does she :p ?

My personal recommendation would be to see about picking up a used mixte. Another thing to consider is, at a certain size level, it will be a lot easier to re-sell a traditional diamond frame than to re-sell a 'ladies' frame bicycle.

In my humble opiniion, of course.

East Hill
Hey, I was gonna say that!

Donna, you are seriously serious and I give you major props. Keep up the riding.

my daughter -- now 9 -- has been on a 20" for two summers now, and will get a third out it before i hang the bike for her 4-y-o brother (x is remarried, boy is my "nephew", tho he calls me 'daddy' almost daily); because of our finances, LBS bikes for kids are out of reach. so i take advantage of my job, and upgrade the Wally bikes that i get for them. her present bike is full-suss, rear cantilever (see San Andreas), and because the crap fork on it started to 'clunk' with every little bump she hit -- and she LOVES bumps! -- i swaped it out for an old RS Jett mtb fork. odd -- bmx '990' brakes adapt perfectly to v-brake posts when you go from 26" wheel to 20"; front end is a bit choppered, but we took a 2 1/2 hour ride today, and she is ecstatic!

she's always loved what i brought home for her, and this bike is the least 'girly' she's ever had; yellow mainframe, dark charcoal swingarm. it's 7sp, with an alu crank off another bike that came in in pieces.

now, if she gives me the 'teen p.c.' routine, she'll either ride what i can give her or not ride.

I think a traditional "girls bike" sends a good message to your daughter that bikes are serious transportation, not weekend toys that require special clothing.

Bikes are serious transportation, not antique toys bent to conform to sexist fashion norms.

Step-through frames may permit a lady to mount a bicycle with her dignity intact, but the frame won't do a darn thing to keep her petticoat from getting snagged on the rear tire or caught in the cranks. Seriously dude, are you raising your children in the 19th century?

Anyone know how the Trek 3700 bike is. I looked at it today with my daughter and she like the womans version of it "Blue with bubbles" for $279. She was able to get on and off much easier that the trek hybrids.

-Dave