Advocacy & Safety - Mountain Bikers and Their Dogs

If any of you do this please respond with your justification on why you do it.

For the rest of you...

I ride two parks in particular where I've run into this problem. Number one - the parks are MTB friendly, but still require leashing of dogs. It irritates me enough when hikers hike with their dogs off leash. I've started to see recently some of our "own kind" (Mountain Bikers) biking the trails with their dogs running alongside or behind them!!

What the heck are these boneheads thinking!?

Let's see - first it's dangerous to the owner and the dog. It's violating the leash laws (like the hikers really need one more reason to complain about MTB'ers). The dogs are "evacuating" all over the place. It's dangerous to other riders. And there are rattlesnakes in these parks - adding more potential danger to the dogs.

I'm working on a flyer to hand out to folks on the trail to re-enforce in a nice diplomatic way, the rules of the trail and the leash laws...and the rattlesnake danger. Anyone else do something like this? Have some verbage to share?

I think it's great that you are trying to buck an ominous trend, bC.
As a hiker, I am dismayed by the yayhoos that bring their d@mn dogs everywhere, usually in complete disregard of rules (& etiquette) for the enjoyment of wilderness areas. :(
BTW, is the dog thing a recent trend (this issue has probably been explored thoroughly on other forums)? It seems like this wasn't even an issue until the 1990's...
I seldom get good results when talking to people who know they are in the wrong, so I've given up saying anything to them about their dogs; they are the people who I simply ignore when encountering them on the trails.
The sad thing is that dog owners are otherwise nice people. They just happen to become instantly defensive if you say anything about their bringing dogs into unappropriate places.
I really am glad that you are willing and able to deal with them in a positive way. Thank you.

I've been on trails in so.cal that have been completely taken over by people and there dogs. At the head of the trail it stinks sooooooooooooooooooooooooooo bad. Especially after a rain. Talk about inconsiderate!!!

I'll report back with how my efforts at diplomacy and trail advocacy work out throughout the summer!

I own a dog and she comes riding/running with me whenever I go. I don't see the "danger" to her or others. She's a yellow lab and is very obediant and gentle. It's good exercise for her, and time well spent together. Why not bring her?

I do not however, take her to trails where dogs are not allowed. Out of respect of the law, and others. There are other places to ride, so I'll go there with her. If there is no mention, then she comes along.

She automatically learned, w/o any teaching on my part to "GO" about 10'0" off the trail in the bushes. Not any worse than any wildlife in these parts. She'll either run behind me, or between riders. She doesn't get in the way, and know the command, "GO, GO, GO" if she's in the way. How is this dangerous to her or other riders.

If we are coming face to face with other riders, we keep going. The only time there is a dilemma is if we are stopped. Then, she responds to voice commands and knows what "Off Trail" means and is usually in the bushes anyways.

When we get back to the trailhead and the truck, she goes back on a rope tied to a tree.

Rattlesnakes? We get them down here, but I guess not in the frequency you might. I've never run into any. I would be concerned about her safety and would leave her home if I was riding in an area known to be heavily populated with rattlers.

I love my dog, and love being outdoors with her. Heck, I'd rather ride with her than some people I know. I guess I don't understand the big deal. Why shouldn't she come? She's as much out of place in the woods as I am. If I can be there, why can't she?

She doesn't litter, like leaving her punctured tube or powerbar wrapper on the trail, she never loses any equipment/tools and she never swears when hurt. She has less impact on the trails than I do.

What is the problem?

The wilderness is such an inappropriate place for a dog. Heaven forbid a dog be able to run about without a leash in the wilderness. You go for a walk in the wild and get pissed if you see a dog in front of you?
Riding a bike with the dog following isn't dangerous. I don't know where that comes from.
Look, there are sensible things dog owners need to do (like pick up after them and train them to behave) but legislating every nook and cranny of the earth to be anti-dog doesn't help anything but force people to walk their dogs illegally and raise the cost of enforcement of ridiculous laws.
If a dog is off the leash and makes you have to slow or stop on the trail- it's a problem with the owner of the dog right? But if you have to slow or stop for a child running around or a horse you don't complain because YOU would be the jack@ss for barrelling down on them.

How about this- it takes consideration and patience on EVERYONE's part to make MULTI-USE trails enjoyable for everyone. Dogs have been human companions since the beginning of man's history! It's not going to change now or should it. Responsible dog owners are not going to be persecuted for stupid laws or attitudes by me.

My big deal is...the trail systems I'm referring to are leash law specific. Hikers AND bikers are ignoring the well posted signage requiring leashes and picking up excrement.

I supposed to me (who's never ridden a trail with a dog in tow), that it APPEARS dangerous to the dog because a dog is certainly less predictable than a riding partner. It seems like it would be pretty easy to have your own dog dart out in front of you - quite possibly injuring you and the dog.

I certainly APPEARS to be dangerous to myself and the dog, when I see another rider approaching at typical trail speeds. The dog is running to and fro behind the rider. I have to slow down and STOP to keep from running into the dog...yet the other rider keeps plowing along with complete disregard for how it might be impacting my ride.

This is the same thing I run accross with hikers...normally a friendly "passing on your left" or head on approach and a "hi, how are you doing" is sufficient. But more and more lately, I've run accross other riders and hikers who by themselves would be no problem. But when you add a friendly (I LOVE DOGS GUYS!) dog that's meandering around on the trail - it is an unwelcome disruption that frequently leaves its little packages on the trail. I don't particularly appreciate flying along a trail and splashing through a doggie pile - or having to suddenly avoid doing so.

I have also run accross hikers, hiking with leashed dogs that maintain proper control and proper trail etiquette when they hear or see you approaching.

a2psyklnut - I'm with you man, it's easy to say "my dog is no problem" - but how can we all agree one way or the other about the issue. You and your dog are probably part of like a 10% minority of good behavior and good doggie trail etiquette (though I still feel you should pick up after your dog).

The trails I'm referring to are HEAVILY traveled, multi-use trails within city limits (and some of the BEST trails you could hope to find anywhere) - so you can only imagine the amount of use and excrement I'm talking about.

As far as the snakes go - the city and parks goes through the same thing - year after year. One or two dogs are bitten and die in the parks each year due to owners allowing their dogs to roam freely.

I do not advocate that every nook and cranny of the earth be anti-dog - I love dogs, I would however appreciate everyone following the same set of guidelines and etiquette when out on the trail.

BTW - How can we convince horse riders to pick up...or at least sweep those huge friggin piles to the side of the trail?? LOL!

My wife and I, dog included were out in CO this past summer. One of the things we enjoyed was the amount of people WITH dogs. What a treat! It was great to see so many people enjoying the beautiful outdoors with the beloved pets. On the same token, I can understand the problem that the sheer number of dogs could have on an area with that many dogs.

If the area where you ride has a leash law and everyone is ignoring it, then I'm with you! You have every right to complain.

I don't pick up after my dog when riding due to the low numbers of dogs in the area. However, I respect your wish for owner's to pick up after their dogs, and will do so in higher populated areas, or middle of trail deposits.

Horses, don't get me started on them!

L8R

Labs are an exception - aside from young ones - the barest movement from the owner and they completely ignore you. If there are boisterous dogs about, I focus on them. They hear you long before their masters and will respect your space if you make eye contact and give them a little room. It works. I also hit a dog once when I came over a sharp rise at speed. I was pissed but didn't say anything, I knew the dog's owner (a local shoprat) and everyone, including the dog, knew it wasn't my fault. You can also give a dog a little rub with your knobby - they hate it.

at least one or two people are injured or die from snake bites every year. That doesn't mean anything. Dogs get hit by cars every year but so do people, racoons and squirrels. So what.
Riding your bike with a dog isn't dangerous and every dog with rider or runner I have seen is fine. If they untrained, it may be a problem but the type of people that do these activities have their dogs trained to be obedient.

I am not disagreeing with some of what you say. I am disagreeing with alot of the anti-dog sentiment on trails/parks/etc.

The main issue is dog waste. If that one thing were gone, I am sure there would be no dog issue whatsoever.
But that's what they say about mountain bikers- they are dangerous, disruptive, inconsiderate and contribute greatly to trail erosion. They will legislate mountain bikers out of every nook and cranny too. Dumb laws don't help solve problems, they cause alot more problems and limit everyone's ability to access these areas as they wish to.
I say everyone should be able to access and enjoy these areas if they do so in a responsible manner.
Horse excrement is not as damaging to the environment since they eat mostly hay, grasses and natural feed. It breaks down relatively fast. If they are fed like a dog, than it is a problem about 100x worse than any dog droppings.

The problem starts with the phrase "if they do so in a responsible manner"...and that's relativism. There are just way to many people out there that wouldn't have a clue what "responsible manner" is. So - rules and laws must be established and followed.

I guess we should do the responsible thing and make mountian biking illegal on all the trails too. Too many don't have a clue.
Or we can try for education on the proper use of trails and why instead of complaining and legislating.
For now you'd be happy because it would make illegal something you don't like. It won't be fun when they target something you enjoy-like riding your bike.

I have noticed an increase in the number of dogs (and riders) as the weather improves toward summer. With the increase in traffic lately it is dangerous IMO since its something else that takes your attention from the trail. Particularly in windy single-track (switchbacks) when a dog is running around cutting between trails and not heeding its owner. I've had a dog run uncomfortably near my bike twice in two weeks. If you're going to ride with your dog I would appreciate not doing it on single-track. Take your dogs on jeep or railroad trails.

I understand what you are saying bC. I have a similar situation but with a bit more added. I have a Pit Bull. I take him to parks (not dog parks) etc. He is always on a leash (not a retractable) and I ALWAYS carry crap bags. I will take him to whatever trail that allows dogs. I do not believe in letting him dog off leash in parks or trails. I do get in the faces of dog owners who are complete idiots, who let their dogs crap all over everything and do not clean it up, who let they dogs get into mischief and do nothing about it or who cannot control their dogs. I will even go as far as discipling someone elses dog if they do nothing about it. In the mortal words of the judge in Caddyshack, "I didnt want to do it, but I felt that I owed to them". My dog got jumped 3 times so far, and all 3 times I physically stopped the other dog before my dog got a hold of them... just for the fact that I own a Pit Bull and all 3 times the other owners looked at me as if I were insane. The dogs were a dalmation, golden retriever and an English Sheep dog. And the owners called them mellow and good natured....whatever. If you own a dog you better damn well take care of it and respect the space of other people.

TLN - AMEN!

What I EXPECT is common decency and responsibility for anyone's own actions and by extension the actions of their pets, children, etc...

I agree with you completely TLN. Our Khiva is 1/2 Pit and 1/2 Lab (we think, she was a rescue so we can't be sure). And she's a big, playful, people-loving goofball. But she's also an alpha and doesn't respond well to aggressive or (worse) passive-aggressive dogs. So we always keep her on the leash while out on the trail or in the local park. We're totally (probably too much) sensitive to the whole pitbull prejudice thing, especially of the owners of "sweet and harmless darlings."

So it drives me crazy when these owners leave their darlings off leash and they come up and provoke Khiva. I'm sure they're reasoning is that "My dog is too special to be leashed." Bah.

Leash up those dogs. You're not doing anyone a favor by letting them off leash.

EVERYONE on the trails needs to be responsible, I rode with a guy I just met a couple weeks ago and as we approached a hiker and his leashed dog on a single track trail, my fellow rider didn't slow down(we were flying pretty good)and he left this hiker on his back in the bushes with his dog now loose as he couldn't hold him while he fell. I stopped and helped him up, got the dog back under control, apologized profusely, and rode on. When I met up with that dude later I started kinda reading him the riot act, he called me a wimp and took off. This was in a state park. We need to promote all the goodwill we can to make up for the idiots, same with dog owners, they need to help by telling other dog folks what they are doing wrong IMHO.....tom

Caloso,
I dont mean to side track of this issue but just for a brief moment. At this time I dont think you can be too sensitive of the "Pit Bull" issue. Since there are places like New York, were if an incident happens and you own a Pit Bull or even "Pit" type dog you will be at fault even if you dog didnt start anything. Thats just the way it is. This prejudice is far far from going away because of idiots who inbreed and breed inadequate dogs, ignorant owners, gang bangers/drug dealers, and lastly the media for not getting their facts straight....about anything.
I for one try to help educate people of what a truly well bred Pit Bull is capable of. I mean that in a good way.

Well said, TLN.