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This does have an indirect relation to cycling advocacy.
It seems that this judge up in Michigan has come up with a very interesting punishment for teenaged traffic law violators. Have a read:
http://www.clickondetroit.com/automotive/9673799/detail.html
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Clever! That is something an individual will remember for the rest of their life.
What does surprise me is the young age at which people are permitted to drive in the USA. In the UK, one must be 17 to take lessons and obtain a driving licence. At 16, I think many are far too young for the responsibility of driving.
Then, you have the legal minimum age of 21 for consumption of alcohol. This has always amused us Brits. A little consistency in the law would be a wonderful thing. I'd love to see a 21 year lower age limit on driving though.
Ed
I have mixed feelings regarding minimum driving age. I took lessons at 15 1/2 and got my license almost immediately after turning 16, and except for one speeding ticket (75mph on a 65mph freeway) at age 21, I have a spotless 40-year driving record. I was ready to drive at 16, but I fear that many teenagers are not.
Europeans are generally far more tolerant of alcohol consumption than Americans, but fortunately also much more strict regarding motoring whilst inebriated.
Yes clever, I hope it works. So far it seems to be.
I did not realize a judge could decide what cases they want to come through their courtroom. I thought they were on a schedule & it had to be adhered to & they could not "dictate" what cases they want to see & which ones they don't.
I do not like using the bus as a form of punishment. If, however, it forces bad drivers to clean up their act.... Now maybe if we can get bus drivers to clean up their's.......
I do not like using the bus as a form of punishment. If, however, it forces bad drivers to clean up their act.... Now maybe if we can get bus drivers to clean up their's.......
Hrmmm... would sentencing bad bus drivers to ride a bike help? :p
This is a bad idea. Not everyone lives near a bus line (I had to walk 1/2 mile to get to the bus stop as a kid), and if you are in certain before or afterschool activities (sports, theater etc) the bus schedule seldom works. Add to that the potential impact on parents not having kids home as early (the bus can take up to 2 hours to drop off the last student where I live) and you have a recipie for a judge not getting re-elected. Legal or not, its a bad policy. Let parents be parents and let the courts do their job without interfering with parents. Suspend the license if you will, but finding parents to be in contempt if they drive their kids?
WTF is wrong with the USA if someone starts to cry over riding the bus? Seriously, WTF?!?
Very stupid idea. It is a minor slap on the wrist. Most students ride the bus anyway. I wonder how it would have worked for me as I lived only 4 blocks from school. That would make the closest school bus stop at teh school where it let students off. The closest regular bus stop was across the street from the school.
I also wonder how the judge was supposed to know. By high school bus drivers do not take role on hte bus. So either he has no way of knowing or he is creating a record keeping nightmare.
The really funny part is that going to school is one of the things you can get a conditional license for. But in this case the judge says no car for school, but it is fine for going out late to a party where you are far more apt to end up with driving problems.
Very stupid idea. It is a minor slap on the wrist. Most students ride the bus anyway. I wonder how it would have worked for me as I lived only 4 blocks from school. That would make the closest school bus stop at teh school where it let students off. The closest regular bus stop was across the street from the school.
I also wonder how the judge was supposed to know. By high school bus drivers do not take role on hte bus. So either he has no way of knowing or he is creating a record keeping nightmare.
The really funny part is that going to school is one of the things you can get a conditional license for. But in this case the judge says no car for school, but it is fine for going out late to a party where you are far more apt to end up with driving problems.
I think the issue is that the judge has suspended their driving privileges, so the student in question, is not driving anywhere. Like you I lived close to school, I think it was about 6 blocks, and I felt it was easier to walk. In college, I had 4 housemates, one had a car, it was actually further to walk from the student parking area, to the school building, then it was to walk from home. I think even the guy with the car walked most of the time, unless he needed the car for something. I did keep my 10 speed road bike handy though, there were often 4-5 bikes parked in the hallway at the house, great for going to other things, like shopping and laundromat. Just when you think this might be recently, it was 1982!!!
I think the issue is that the judge has suspended their driving privileges, so the student in question, is not driving anywhere. Like you I lived close to school, I think it was about 6 blocks, and I felt it was easier to walk. In college, I had 4 housemates, one had a car, it was actually further to walk from the student parking area, to the school building, then it was to walk from home. I think even the guy with the car walked most of the time, unless he needed the car for something. I did keep my 10 speed road bike handy though, there were often 4-5 bikes parked in the hallway at the house, great for going to other things, like shopping and laundromat. Just when you think this might be recently, it was 1982!!!
The article says:
If the teens violate the order to ride the bus, their driver's license will be suspended, and a fine must be paid. If they follow the order, the matter is dismissed.
You ASSUMED the judge was doing something rational. That you were lead astray serves to illustrate how stupid his actual punishment is.
That's insane...when I was in HS, i took classes at the local junior college right after school...there was no way a bus would have gotten me there fast enough...had like 15 or 20 minutes to go 3 miles IIRC...can you say undue hardship?
WTF is wrong with the USA if someone starts to cry over riding the bus? Seriously, WTF?!?
It's the "Great Unraveling", OG.
Just grab a tub of popcorn and enjoy the show.
The article says:
If the teens violate the order to ride the bus, their driver's license will be suspended, and a fine must be paid. If they follow the order, the matter is dismissed.
You ASSUMED the judge was doing something rational. That you were lead astray serves to illustrate how stupid his actual punishment is.
The judge is female, not male...
I think the punishment is fair. The judge should have been harsher on the teens. Kids are kids, a 16 yo cannot easily comprehend what it feels like to run someone over and kill them.... this judge is only trying to make these kids understand how serious their speeding problem is.
When I was a kid, I had to take the bus to school...
IF I had a car, I KNOW I would have been speeding like my other HS friends did ... So this judge is OK in my book !
I'm sure the judge takes into consideration all the various factors involved when sentencing the teens. I'm sure that if it had been me I would not have been forced to ride the school bus because I lived only 4 blocks from school and walked. There was no bus for me. For somebody like me, I'm sure the judge would have thought up something else, such as suspending my license and for anywhere I wanted to go outside of school, making me take a city bus, walk or ride my bike, and not get any rides from mom or my friends.
Sounds like a nanny-state to me. If we give them drivers licenses, then they should be treated equally to other people. Probably constitutional problems with this, and "equal protection under the law"
Sounds like a nanny-state to me. If we give them drivers licenses, then they should be treated equally to other people. Probably constitutional problems with this, and "equal protection under the law"
These are minors....
ummm .. aren't cruel and unusual punishments not constitutional? While this isn't cruel, it sure it unusual. The judge should've just suspended her license for a while and let it be that. Give the gubberment an inch and they'll take a yard. Next time you get pulled over on your bike for rolling through a stop, don't complain when you're forced to take the bus to work every day instead of riding your bike.
These are teens, teens in general have no respect for money, so fining them won't work.
A little embarrassment with their peers might do some good...
That's a stupid punishment, and not very enforceable under statutes. Why can't a judge revoke a teen offender's license, impose a ban from driving for a time, then compel the teen to demonstrate their maturity, lessons learned and willingness to take driving seriously by re-qualifying for their license once the suspension is completed. This would make sense for moving violations, moer serious offences, would require more serious punishment.
This kind of arbitrary 'sentencing' negates government-written statues, in favour of judicial activism and runs the risk of setting all kinds of dumb, poor-quality precedents, and as a result, inconsistent justice. What will the next judge do? Sentence teens to 'walk 5 miles to school, uphill both ways'?
This is a bad idea. Not everyone lives near a bus line (I had to walk 1/2 mile to get to the bus stop as a kid), and if you are in certain before or afterschool activities (sports, theater etc) the bus schedule seldom works. Add to that the potential impact on parents not having kids home as early (the bus can take up to 2 hours to drop off the last student where I live) and you have a recipie for a judge not getting re-elected. Legal or not, its a bad policy. Let parents be parents and let the courts do their job without interfering with parents. Suspend the license if you will, but finding parents to be in contempt if they drive their kids?
Hello? It's punishment! It's supposed to be a PIA, it's supposed to hurt. If the parents did their job correctly, they kids would not be in front of the judge.
This judge has hit upon a punishment that is not just monetary, but involes a broad aspect of the miscreant's life, including loss of face in front of their peers, afterschool (extracurricular) activities being restricted and parents stirred out of their orbits. Perhaps now the parents will keep a closer eye on their kids.
Where I grew up, you had to live at least 2 miles from the school in order to ride the bus. Less than two miles, Shank's Mares for you lad. Walk it. A half mile to the bus stop is what, 7 - 10 minute walk?
This broke down pretty much the way I thought it would. Some agree, some disagree. So, what do I think? I think it's a good idea. Not a great idea, but a good one. This judge has "hit them where they live" so to speak.
"Jent got the idea after a girl in her court for a moving traffic violation appeared not to take seriously either the offense or the possible fine." Yeah, that pretty much says it all. I'm betting that if this one hit a cyclist, and caused that cyclist to be seriously injured, she'd probably say "So? What's the big deal, anyway?" Then she's probably pull out her cell phone and yak it up with her boyfriend.
This past spring, there was a higher-than-usual number of bad accidents involving teens and cars in MA. Some state legislators wanted to increase the age for a license to 17 1/2, which would have put it among the highest in the nation. So, they filed a bill. Well,,,, First of all, it was interesting that so many teens developed this sudden interest in civics, and how bills become law, but that wasn't the good part. The good part was the reaction of parents, a lot of whom rumbled into the state house from the wealthy western suburbs, when the bill came up for public hearings. I watched this on the local political channel. One woman sat there, and with a perfectly straight face, (Botox?)told the members of the joint transportation commitee, that they had already picked out their daughter's car, for when she gets her license, and to not get it now would be so devasating....
Wow. There must really be something wrong with me. I didn't get a license until I was eighteen, or a car until I graduated college. I rode my Raleigh Record all that time. I guess I just wasn't living.
ummm .. aren't cruel and unusual punishments not constitutional? While this isn't cruel, it sure it unusual. The judge should've just suspended her license for a while and let it be that. Give the gubberment an inch and they'll take a yard. Next time you get pulled over on your bike for rolling through a stop, don't complain when you're forced to take the bus to work every day instead of riding your bike.
It is cruel AND unusual punishment, not cruel OR unusual punishment. It needs to be both to have a constitutional problem. And I doubt it would be found unusual in any legal sense. Also I've never heard of any punishment offered as an alternative to the standard punishment being thrown out on constitutional grounds.
As fordfasterr said they are minors. If I am not mistaken when it comes to punishment after they break the law minors do not have much in the way of rights, at least not as much as an adult would, nor should they. When they become legal adults then they can ***** & moan all about how their rights have been trampled on. Until then they need to shut up & take the punishment the judge doled out to them.
I watched this on the local political channel. One woman sat there, and with a perfectly straight face, (Botox?)told the members of the joint transportation commitee, that they had already picked out their daughter's car, for when she gets her license, and to not get it now would be so devasating....
Wow. There must really be something wrong with me. I didn't get a license until I was eighteen, or a car until I graduated college. I rode my Raleigh Record all that time. I guess I just wasn't living.
That is do depressing to hear. As I bemoaned in my previous post, WTF is wrong with this country?!? This is a truly pathetic state of affairs. :(
For the record, I didn't get a driver's license until I was, what, 26? I even lived in upstate NY for five potential driving years before that!
Wow. There must really be something wrong with me. I didn't get a license until I was eighteen, or a car until I graduated college. I rode my Raleigh Record all that time. I guess I just wasn't living.
I got my licence at 16, but didn't get a car until I was 24, no need, if it was too far to walk, I had a bike, if it was too far to bike, there was always the bus..:eek:
ummm .. aren't cruel and unusual punishments not constitutional? While this isn't cruel, it sure it unusual. The judge should've just suspended her license for a while and let it be that. Give the gubberment an inch and they'll take a yard. Next time you get pulled over on your bike for rolling through a stop, don't complain when you're forced to take the bus to work every day instead of riding your bike.
Nice overreaction. Driving is a PRIVILAGE, not a right...so that cruel and unusual crap goes out the window. This is a good way to circumvent a suspension...look at it this way, most insurance companies will not accept you on a recently suspended license. At that point you are stuck with crappy or very expensive coverage.
So we make riding a bus punishment...what happens to the public perception of mass transit?
However, taking away a high school student's sole vision of independance is a great idea for punishment.
Such a horrible trade-off, imho.
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