Training & Nutrition - Soy vs. Regular milk

not much more to add.. im looking for benefits of soy vs regular milk, if any? i drink skim milk usually but have tried soy lately and its not to bad. also theres a "light soy chocolate milk" that tastes awesome.


any input?

I like Vitasoy light chocolate ok but I found I wasn't go though it fast enough before it would go bad. I end up just always using vanilla Vitasoy 'Complete' as a base for everything and adding flavoring as desired. One thing I like about soy milk is that you can buy a bunch of the shelf stable stuff and not have to keep a lot of milk in the fridge; just pop them in as needed...

Oh yeah I should add that my wife like Hood 'Carb Countdown' chocolate milk. I think they may have renamed it to 'Calorie Countdown'. Anyway, less calories & carbs than regular or light soy chocolate, but thicker and creamier. I think it tastes pretty good but I usually just let her have it to herself.

Define 'regular'. Whole milk? 2%? Skim? The disadvantage of whole milk is probably obvious - twice as much fat. Another benefit I see is that you don't risk ingesting hormones that were pumped into the cow to increase production way above normal.

Lowers cholesterol and heart disease risk: http://www.healthcastle.com/benefitsofsoy_heart.shtml

Other misc. soy benefits: http://www.soyinfo.com/benefits.shtml

Hope this doesn't seem too preachy. It's my first post here because I'm such a bike noob that I rarely get into a thread I can contribute to. :o

I buy skim milk and put soy
or preferrably WHEY protein powder
in it. See the website at:
http://www.wheyoflife.org
for details on the many, many
health benefits of whey protein
powder.

Soy milk is too expensive for
my taste and doesn't have
enough amino acid content.

Yea, non-animal sources of protien - like soy - usually have less complete amino profiles.

Define 'regular'. Whole milk? 2%? Skim? The disadvantage of whole milk is probably obvious - twice as much fat. Another benefit I see is that you don't risk ingesting hormones that were pumped into the cow to increase production way above normal.


Soy milk has just as much fat as whole milk unless you get the lower fat versions which seem to have just come out.

Generally speaking cows may be given oxytocin to help them "let down" the milk.

But soy isn't innocent either. It has phytoestrogens which may have an effect on men. Ever notice all of those Soy Menopause products geared to women with hot flashes? Yup, its the phytoestrogens in soy that help with hot flashes the same way Premarin (conjugated estrogen) helps with hot flashes.

The soy milk in my fridge has 4g of fat (0g trans) per 8 fl. oz., and it isn't marked as a low-fat version.

According to http://www.nal.usda.gov/fnic/foodcomp/search/, whole milk has 7.93g of fat per 8 fl. oz.

The right light chocolate soy milk is like liquid crack. Good stuff. :D

I have to have both. Normal milk, and soy chocolate milk.

Soy milk has just as much fat as whole milk unless you get the lower fat versions which seem to have just come out.

Generally speaking cows may be given oxytocin to help them "let down" the milk.

But soy isn't innocent either. It has phytoestrogens which may have an effect on men. Ever notice all of those Soy Menopause products geared to women with hot flashes? Yup, its the phytoestrogens in soy that help with hot flashes the same way Premarin (conjugated estrogen) helps with hot flashes.

I agree. I have never been wild about soy as a protein source. If you want regular milk and avoid the additives, try organic milk. Yes, it is more expensive.

Soy milk is too expensive for
my taste .


Where have you been shopping? I've NEVER paid more for soy then regular. Normally I pay 1.09 for a quart of the non refridgerated fortified kind versus 1.99 for a quart of whole milk.

+1 on anything organic

I love soy milk and rice milk. Regular milk makes me phlematic.

Sigh,
you beat the tar out of BS and old wive's tales and 5 minutes later
the same foolishness is back.

Soy milk is fine, just beware most have lots of added sugar. I buy an unsweetened variety; but they sneak a little sugar into that as well.
Here is an analysis
http://www.nutritiondata.com/facts-B00001-01c218l.html
Americans get plenty of protein, so the fact that this protein is
not quite perfect is basically irrelevant. In any case you can easily
up the protein rating by having a grain product like cereal or bread with the milk.



Milk is also good, if fatty. I usually get a protein fortified skim milk.
http://www.hphood.com/products/prodDetail.aspx?id=357
You prob have something like this available.

In general, cyclists don't need to worry about protein. You should take advantage of the glycogen window that happens for 20 minutes after you stop
exercising; but other than that it's not a big deal. Just drink what you like.

There's no such thing as soy milk. It's soy juice. Know how come I know there's no such thing as soy milk? Because there's no soy titty, is there? -- Louis Black :eek:

If you're concerned about the levels of oil or sugar added to soymilk, you could always make your own:

http://www.soymilkmaker.com/

Where have you been shopping? I've NEVER paid more for soy then regular. Normally I pay 1.09 for a quart of the non refridgerated fortified kind versus 1.99 for a quart of whole milk.

+1 on anything organic

Yes, but I pay only $3.49 for 2 GALLONS of skim milk.
Trader Joes, the best price I can get on Soy, sells it
for $1.99 a quart, or they used to a couple of years ago.

I live in Southern California, I don't know if it is more
expensive here or not.

drink water, not milk or soy

and eat cheese

it is the best

Yes, but I pay only $3.49 for 2 GALLONS of skim milk.
Trader Joes, the best price I can get on Soy, sells it
for $1.99 a quart, or they used to a couple of years ago.

I live in Southern California, I don't know if it is more
expensive here or not.


I make mine at home with the machine that marks has posted. It cost 5 cents for the beans for 1-1/2 quarts.

not much more to add.. im looking for benefits of soy vs regular milk, if any? i drink skim milk usually but have tried soy lately and its not to bad. also theres a "light soy chocolate milk" that tastes awesome.


any input?

I've had to soy vs regular arguement with people before. Here is what I know

Soy milk is going to tend to have more fat calories
soy itself has qualities that reduce your chances of getting cancer
soy milk does not contain natural calcium, it is fortified with calcium. Also, something in the soy blocks some calcium from being absorbed, so you're getting much less calcium.
Soy in excess [doubt you'll ever drink THAT much] will cause kidney failure
Protein content between soy milk and regular milk is about the same
Soy milk is more expensive

Drink whatever you like. If you're lactose intolerant, then the choice is obvious.

I live in Southern California, I don't know if it is more
expensive here or not.Its $12 for 12 boxed quarts of Kirkland brand soy milk at Costco.

Just get soybeans from the Asian grocer. Soak overnight, boil, puree in blender, and strain.

Anyone drink rice milk? I thinkit tastes good but I'm not sure how it stacks up against soy or regualr milk in terms of nutrition.

Rice milk has the same nutritional value as rice. Anything else is added.

There's no such thing as soy milk. It's soy juice. Know how come I know there's no such thing as soy milk? Because there's no soy titty, is there? -- Louis Black :eek:


Well, You can mold tofu in lots of shapes.

Soy Milk is for people who haven't tried Almond/Rice Milk
Almond/Rice Milk is for people who haven't tried HazelNut Milk

Cows don't even drink cow milk, only calves do.

The benefit of Soymilk, is that it doesn't have any of the hormones that a mother cow gives it's calf which help it become a 1,200 lb. meat machine. I don't know about you, but I don't need those hormones working against my weight loss capabilities. Regular Soy seems to have half the fat as regular milk, low and non-fat soys all seem to add sweetener. You have to decide which you want to keep out of your system, the fat or the sugar.

Stick to water except when you need a creamy ingredient for preparing meals, says I.

The benefit of Soymilk, is that it doesn't have any of the hormones that a mother cow gives it's calf which help it become a 1,200 lb. meat machine

Last time I checked Holtsteins were not 1200lb meat machines. They look more like concentration camp survivors. And, no soy milk doesn't have cow hormones but it does have plant hormones. They are called phytoestrogens. I am not about to say soy is bad or it is good or that milk is bad or good. It isn't that simple, but the local news likes to portray science as being that simple.

In fact, I can predict with absolute certaintly that the news somewhere in the US will be reporting on a study tonight about how chocolate is good for you. I don't know who is doing all of these chocolate studies, but us real scientists have better things to do than worry about the effects of snickers on the human condition. But I digress.

Soy DOES have phytoestrogens which I am pretty sure it probably not a good thing for men to consume in large quantities, unless you were really wanting to fit into that nice sleek evening gown. But again, as it goes for just about anything.....moderation is the key.

I personally prefer the taste of soy milk over cow's milk, but I since I am losing weight, I can't justify the extra calories of soy milk over skim. Bottom line, drink what you want. It probably doesn't matter much either way.

Soy DOES have phytoestrogens which I am pretty sure it probably not a good thing for men to consume in large quantities, unless you were really wanting to fit into that nice sleek evening gown. But again, as it goes for just about anything.....moderation is the key.This is confusing because we're also being told that athletes like Landis may have taken testosterone-like compounds derived from soy. You can get estrogen AND testosterone from the same product?

Also, it appears estrogen-like compounds derived from plastics are showing up in everyone that lives in modern societies.

From the top rated website on a Google search on "cow weight slaughter (http://64.233.161.104/search?q=cache:i0Bq0x_tUVgJ:extension.missouri.edu/nwregion/ExtNews/September%25202005/05-September%2520regional%2520newsletter.pdf+cow+weight+slaughter&hl=en&gl=us&ct=clnk&cd=1&client=firefox-a)"

"the average mature cow weight was 1,160 lbs"

I guess I'm missing your point - how many 1,160 lb soy plants are there? I would suggest that the human body is made to consume vegetables in large quantities, and animal products in small quantities if at all.

Organic skim milk. Low GI for everyday use. I only use it in cereal. No growth hormones. No antibiotics.

I like soy milk but only the stuff we get when we go to Taiwan or that I make myself. Commercial stuff here doesn't do it for me.

I use rice milk for biking meals - before and after. High GI. Tastes good enough.

Agree that water is better as a drink.

From the top rated website on a Google search on "cow weight slaughter (http://64.233.161.104/search?q=cache:i0Bq0x_tUVgJ:extension.missouri.edu/nwregion/ExtNews/September%25202005/05-September%2520regional%2520newsletter.pdf+cow+weight+slaughter&hl=en&gl=us&ct=clnk&cd=1&client=firefox-a)"

"the average mature cow weight was 1,160 lbs"

I guess I'm missing your point - how many 1,160 lb soy plants are there? I would suggest that the human body is made to consume vegetables in large quantities, and animal products in small quantities if at all.

I think the two of you are talking about different types of cattle. Beef cattle are fattened up for slaughter but dairy cattle aren't, so they tend to be smaller.

think the two of you are talking about different types of cattle. Beef cattle are fattened up for slaughter but dairy cattle aren't, so they tend to be smaller.

Thanks you beat me to it. Holsteins are skin and bones and milk. Angus, polled herefords, angus-hereford crosses, etc... are meat machines. You do not consume milk from the meat machines, only because farmers don't want to waste their money(i.e. grain and hay) on building muscle mass for an animal that has the sole purpose of manufacturing milk. That is why Holsteins look the way they do. Nearly all of their energy goes into making milk.

Now veal comes from the male Holsteins that are inevitably born as part of the freshening process.

And thus concludes the cow lesson for the day in a place called bike forums. :)

This is confusing because we're also being told that athletes like Landis may have taken testosterone-like compounds derived from soy. You can get estrogen AND testosterone from the same product?


Well that makes absolutely no sense. Soy actually reduces testosterone levels in men....

And yes, you can get both hormones from a single "product." Men have both testosterone and estrogen. Though obviously the levels differ from men to women.

And thus concludes the cow lesson for the day in a place called bike forums. :)

Uh, not so fast; cows all still have cow hormones. Just because the cow has not been allowed to develop to it's full potential doesn't mean it doesn't have the hormones or capability to do so. My point is that cow hormones are for cows. When I did drink milk, I bought Organic to try and reduce/eliminate the added hormones that go into regular milk, and then the point was made to me that there are still hormones even in organic milk that are not made for my body.

You want to quibble about the weight of different breeds of cows? Great, I guess you need to show me a healthy milking cow that weighs in at 169 lbs. - the ideal weight I'm trying to hit. ;)

Uh, not so fast; cows all still have cow hormones.

Yes, of course they do. I didn't feel the need to point out the obvious. Estrogen in soy however is not so obvious.


You want to quibble about the weight of different breeds of cows? Great, I guess you need to show me a healthy milking cow that weighs in at 169 lbs. - the ideal weight I'm trying to hit.

You started the "quibble" about weight in cows...it only became a quibble when you were wrong.

As far as a healthy milking cow at 169 lbs....human women can weigh that and produce milk...:eek:

As far as a healthy milking cow at 169 lbs....human women can weigh that and produce milk...:eek:

It's getting a bit cyclical with you, but in the end thanks for making my point. Human milk is for human babies, cow's milk is for cow babies. The right hormones for the right job.

I haven't completely exhausted the varieties availale, but silk runs the same price as organic milk around here, which is about double the price of regular milk (isn't it odd that the stores charge the same for whole, 2% and skim?)

Random tip if you are trying to cut back on dairy:

I have only ever used milk for cereal, never drinking. When I tried to cut back on dairy, I moved from organic skim to soy milk, which I loved at first, but was just too thick for cereal (and the watered-down experiment was not successful!). So then I tried fruit juice. What a godsend. Fruit juice is so sweet, it makes my grape nuts taste sweeter than Frosted Flakes. I'm at the point now where I use about 25% juice and 75% water. Doesn't work with all types of cereal, but grape nuts and most kashi type cereals are awesome that way. No more $5 gallons of organic milk!

Cow's milk is chock full of hormones that humans don't need. I would NEVER feed my child cow's milk unless it's certified organic and not full of those hormones.

Soy/rice/almond etc milks do not have any such things. For that reason alone I use them.

Cow's milk is chock full of hormones that humans don't need. I would NEVER feed my child cow's milk unless it's certified organic and not full of those hormones.

What does organic have to do with hormones in milk? It would still have all of the naturally occuring hormones that lactating cows have.

It's getting a bit cyclical with you, but in the end thanks for making my point. Human milk is for human babies, cow's milk is for cow babies.


And soy milk is for soy babies?

What is wrong with ingesting parts of animals? It is about as natural as you can get. We are omnivores that are supposed to have a varied diet of plants and animals. Like I said in an earlier post...moderation is the key. Too much of anything can be bad. Even too much water is lethal.

What does organic have to do with hormones in milk? It would still have all of the naturally occuring hormones that lactating cows have.

But not unnatural levels of artificial hormones.

But not unnatural levels of artificial hormones.

What artificial hormones?

What artificial hormones?

http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?sec=health&res=9B02E3D81438F93BA25756C0A962958260

"But last November, when the Federal Food and Drug Administration approved the use of bovine somatotropin, a synthetic version of the hormone that stimulates milk production..."

http://www.answers.com/topic/bovine-somatotropin

"A hormone of cattle that regulates growth and milk production. It is also produced by genetic engineering and administered to cows to increase milk production. Also called bovine somatotropin."

http://www.ejnet.org/bgh/

Plenty of reading there, but seriously not objective.

http://www.fda.gov/bbs/topics/CONSUMER/CON00068.html

The FDA says, "screw you tree huggers, it's a-ok." (paraphrase)

http://www.whfoods.com/genpage.php?tname=foodspice&dbid=130

"Cows may be treated with a compound called recombinant bovine growth hormone rBGH. Canada has banned the use of this hormone in cows, based on research from Canadian scientists. Their report on rBGH noted that cows injected with the growth hormone reportedly have a 25 percent increase in risk of mastitis, an 18 percent increase in the risk of infertility and a 50 percent increase in the risk of lameness. Another independent Canadian scientific committee found there was no direct risk to human health. Several U.S. groups have opposed the use of the hormone. One concern is that cows with mastitis are treated with antibiotics. The best way to ensure that you buy milk that has not been treated with rBGH is to buy organic dairy products."

Well those were certainly unbiased sources written in peer reviewed scientific journals....;)

Well those were certainly unbiased sources written in peer reviewed scientific journals....;)

The utmost in objectivity, no doubt!

But the point is that you asked about artificial hormones. The links are suggesting there's no question of there being artificial hormones in the milk.

Obviously the safety of such hormones is a topic of debate. I pass no judgement either way. But I do drink organic milk, rice milk, and soy milk. It may be in vain but it helps me sleep better at night. Or wait, no. That's the beer.

Or wait, no. That's the beer.

And we all know how safe beer is.

Those hormones are safe as determined by clinical trials. Just because something is "artificial" doesn't make it bad, and natural doesn't make it good. You mention beer. Did you know that beer is made using biotechnology?

And we all know how safe beer is.

Those hormones are safe as determined by clinical trials. Just because something is "artificial" doesn't make it bad, and natural doesn't make it good. You mention beer. Did you know that beer is made using biotechnology?

Like I said, I'm not passing judgement. No need to take every comment as a threat to your philosophy. This is merely an informational exchange. You asked about artificial, I provided an answer. I did not say it was a good or bad thing.

"Good" or "bad" are decisions for me to make for myself. I don't expect you to abide by those decision. I don't even expect to get them all right. Pointing to beer in a conversation about milk is merely deflecting the conversation about the said pieces of information above.

Above all, I make no contention that I live a perfect, nor consistent, life.

Thanks, and good night.

Pointing to beer in a conversation about milk is merely deflecting the conversation about the said pieces of information above.

You were the one that mentioned beer. I was merely pointing out the hypocrisy of consuming something known to be toxic and produced with biotechnology, yet you are afraid of drinking milk.

It isn't necessarily about you specifically, but I have encountered quite a few people who are essentially clueless about basic science, diseases, physiology, and so on yet hold on for dear life to a few questionable tennents such as avoiding "chemicals" or biotechnology or "artificial" or thinking organic is in some way better.

Artificial isn't necessarily bad and natural isn't necessarily good. Heck 100% natural product could contain the following: cobra venom, lard, opium, lead, crude oil, coal, E. coli, and let's through in some pure sodium just for fun. Yummy!

Anthony is an excellent example of a person having just enough knowledge to really screw himself up. He doesn't have enough to truly understand the scientific concepts, but just enough that he thinks he actually knows what he is talking about.

There's a significant amount of government funded research that indicates that milk promotes many diseases of the west which are not shared by the rest of the world's population until they adopt our eating habits. Soy makes me sick after about 10 days of regular consumption. A very nice tasting alternative is Almond milk. Don't care for Rice milk.

Al