Bicycle Mechanics - gear shifters ? I want to change mine

Ive got the Diamondback Wildwood Tandem....and yes we love it and dont intend to change til this one literally will not work anymore...but I hate those positive click shifters. I have every since the first time I saw them. I dont want to explain 'why' I dont like them, I just dont :)

This is a personal preference thing, so please, no one try to talk me out of it, tell me Im ignorant, compare what I have with what I want, etc....just please help me find a site where I can buy what Id like to get :)

What Id like is the old ten speed sort of shifters... the ones that sit on the neck and you have no clue what gear your actually in....NO positive clicking either, please, that is part of my irritation with the shifters we have (that and the fact that they are well into the grip area and with my larger hands are often in the way.

Is there a good site where I can find this type of shifter for a 24 (sorry) speed ?

thanks :)
wm

What you're referring to are "indexed" shifters (the kind that click into place for each cog) and "friction" shifters (the kind that move continuously in between gears). I happen to prefer friction shifters most of the time, since they need less adjustment, although I find them not so good for racing and fast rides where I need to shift fast.

If I understand you correctly, you want stem shifters, which attach to the handlebar stem. Um... frankly, I think that's foolish because it's a bad place for shifters: it is better to have shifters closer to the brakes and further from the center of the bike, to improve your balance. They are basically considered obsolete. But if you REALLY want stem shifters, then pretty much *any* will do... since they work in friction mode it doesn't much matter what kind of derailers or cassette you have. I have a few pairs of stem shifters in my parts bin, yours for the price of shipping.

The problem is that if your tandem is a newer model, it almost certainly has a threadless headset with a 1-1/8" stem. I don't think that any stem shifters exist which will fit a threadless stem/fork. But if you have a 1" threaded/quill stem then stem shifters will work.

I would suggest that instead of using friction STEM shifters, you use friction BAR-END shifters. Here's an example of what they look like on my bike:
http://bike.toleressea.net/steely_dan_aug2006_small.jpg
They attach to the ends of the handlebar, and all models of them can be made to work in friction mode. There are many models still made, or you can find them used much cheaper since you don't care about the indexing. www.Nashbar.com sells brand-new bar-end shifters for about $50, but I think the best FRICTION-MODE model ever are the old SunTour barcons which can be had for about $10 on ebay.

If you have downtube lever bosses, I'd suggest Shimano's Light Action shifters.

If you'd still prefer to mount on the stem, you can sometimes find Light Action shifters with a stem clamp adapter for traditional diameter stems. If you have a threadless 1-1/8" fork, you might be able to use a downtube lever clamp on the larger stem.

Take care,

-Kurt

thanks.

I dont like the click shifting as it seems like one or two gears are always having trouble when shifting to the next lower gear....like it tries but it gets hung up. Ive cleaned the crap out of everything and adjusted till Im just about fed up with it. there is always one or two gears that are a pain....even when we first got the bike and the store bike mech. had it as good as he said it probably would get.
I just dont remember ever having this type of problem with my old 10 speeds with the shimano parts.

I guess anything that is friction instead of that clicking thing would be sufficient....and also they cant be the kind that sit next to the grips like the stock ones do....they are in the way of my hands more times than not.

Additionally, the stem does seem to be 1" not 1 1/8".

Do you have a link where I could look at these 'bar end' shifters?

Sorry about the OP, its just that most of the time when Im on the internet on forums like this when I ask a question some 14 year old kid comes in and posts 10 times telling me how stupid I am for asking what Im asking ....Im 41...I dont need the games just some answers :)

So, what would you guys suggest....

I like the friction idea and I need the shifters away from the grips.... :)

thanks.

I dont like the click shifting as it seems like one or two gears are always having trouble when shifting to the next lower gear....like it tries but it gets hung up. Ive cleaned the crap out of everything and adjusted till Im just about fed up with it. there is always one or two gears that are a pain....even when we first got the bike and the store bike mech. had it as good as he said it probably would get.
I just dont remember ever having this type of problem with my old 10 speeds with the shimano parts.

I guess anything that is friction instead of that clicking thing would be sufficient....and also they cant be the kind that sit next to the grips like the stock ones do....they are in the way of my hands more times than not.

Additionally, the stem does seem to be 1" not 1 1/8".

Do you have a link where I could look at these 'bar end' shifters?

Sorry about the OP, its just that most of the time when Im on the internet on forums like this when I ask a question some 14 year old kid comes in and posts 10 times telling me how stupid I am for asking what Im asking ....Im 41...I dont need the games just some answers :)

So, what would you guys suggest....

I like the friction idea and I need the shifters away from the grips.... :)
Okay, I think you're telling me that your bike has flat mountain bike handlebars. Is that correct??

I thought you had drop-bar road bike handlebars. Unfortunately, there aren't too many friction-shifting options for flat handlebars. There are very old thumb shifters which are not in a very good position for easy shifting in my opinion, but you might like them... Your best bet for these would be to look on ebay, they should be quite cheap. If you really *do* have a 1" threaded stem (go to sheldonbrown.com and red about the difference to make sure), then you can still use stem shifters with the mountain bike handlebars. It will look goofy as hell, but if that's what ya want then go for it :)

Hi again.

Well, all I did was measure the neck...it was exactly 1".....Im not sure if this was the correct way tho....

Our bars arent exactly flat....theyre raised about 2 inches or so from the center.....not flat at all.

Ive tried moving the shifters in a bit, that has them kind of out of the way, but not enough...regardless of that tho, its that annoying thing of not being able to get them set perfectly.

Im not overly concerned about the look if it means having something that works the way Id like it to. :)

Ill check out the site...thanks :)

Hi again.

Well, all I did was measure the neck...it was exactly 1".....Im not sure if this was the correct way tho....

Our bars arent exactly flat....theyre raised about 2 inches or so from the center.....not flat at all.

Ive tried moving the shifters in a bit, that has them kind of out of the way, but not enough...regardless of that tho, its that annoying thing of not being able to get them set perfectly.

Im not overly concerned about the look if it means having something that works the way Id like it to. :)

Ill check out the site...thanks :)
Okay, those *are* flat bars for the purposes of what kind of shifters and brake levers you can use. The other option is drop bars, for road bikes, which are totally different.

Unfortunately, if your stem is exactly 1" in diameter, that means you have a 1-1/8" fork. If your stem was 7/8", that would be the right size for stem shifters. (I know, quite confusing :)) You almost certainly have a threadless stem, which clamps on to the outside of the fork, rather than a quill stem, which goes INTO the fork (can you check that for sure?). I highly doubt that there is any practical way to mount stem shifters to a threadless stem ... though somebody please correct me if I'm wrong.

Actually, I'm kinda stumped here. I can't think of any very good way to get friction shifting on a modern mountain bike with 1-1/8" threadless fork... maybe somebody else can think of a way.

Despite the fact that your bars have a bit of rise, they are still "flat bars" in bike terms. The alternative is "drop bars", the downward curved rams-horn type bars you see on all road racing and most road bikes.

You are limited to the shifters intended for Mountain Bikes so forget the bar end types as these are pretty much for drop bars only. (Of course, now I'll hear from someone who fit them to an MTB.)

If your bike has downtube bosses you could fit friction type downtube shifters and these will be as out-of-the-way as you can get.

Actually, I'm kinda stumped here. I can't think of any very good way to get friction shifting on a modern mountain bike with 1-1/8" threadless fork... maybe somebody else can think of a way.
The bike is a tandem so it may have downtube bosses.

Shimano's Light Action shifters

Just looked at this and they seem perfect....now just where to buy them :)

Actually, I'm kinda stumped here. I can't think of any very good way to get friction shifting on a modern mountain bike with 1-1/8" threadless fork... maybe somebody else can think of a way.

Simple. Use a 1-1/8" downtube shifter boss clamp on the stem, then mount those Light Action road levers on it.

-Kurt

so what are these 'downtube bosses' ?

Simple. Use a 1-1/8" downtube shifter boss clamp on the stem, then mount those Light Action road levers on it.

-Kurt
+1 Great idea! I'd forgotten about those clamp-on downtube bosses...

Just looked at this and they seem perfect....now just where to buy them :)

Here you go. Shimano Light Action shifters, NOS, on eBay, ending in 1 hour, 10 minutes, complete with 1-1/8" clamp.

http://cgi.ebay.com/SHIMANO-L422-DOWNTUBE-SHIFTERS-with-cables-NOS_W0QQitemZ280016968960QQihZ018QQcategoryZ36140QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

-Kurt

so what are these 'downtube bosses' ?

They are brazed-on pieces on the downtube to bolt the shifters into. See my post above though - you don't need 'em.

Best of luck!

-Kurt

Here you go. Shimano Light Action shifters, NOS, on eBay, ending in 1 hour, 10 minutes, complete with 1-1/8" clamp.

http://cgi.ebay.com/SHIMANO-L422-DOWNTUBE-SHIFTERS-with-cables-NOS_W0QQitemZ280016968960QQihZ018QQcategoryZ36140QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

-Kurt
These are definitely what I want....but.....how do I know if this 1 1/8 is correct or not?

These are definitely what I want....but.....how do I know if this 1 1/8 is correct or not?
Well, you said that the stem measures "exactly 1 inch" in the place where you want to clamp on the shifters... is that correct?

In that case you want a 1 inch clamp (which may not exist, since these shifters were originally meant to go on a downtube). Or you could buy this 1-1/8" size... and make a shim using a thick piece of rubber wrapped around the stem. A shim can work very well, and though it may make your bike look goofy... oh wait, your bike is already going to look goofy with stem shifters :)

Well, you said that the stem measures "exactly 1 inch" in the place where you want to clamp on the shifters... is that correct?
yep


Or you could buy this 1-1/8" size... and make a shim using a thick piece of rubber wrapped around the stem. A shim can work very well.....
thanks :)



oh wait, your bike is already going to look goofy with stem shifters :)
This is the type of thing I was trying to avoid.....thanks for the help, but I could do without the sarcasm....it doesnt make me want to come here with questions....

This is the type of thing I was trying to avoid.....thanks for the help, but I could do without the sarcasm....it doesnt make me want to come here with questions....
Awww, c'mon ;) I'm not telling you not to do it, just poking a little fun because it's a very unusual modification. In any case, I hope you enjoy it. I certainly like my bar-end friction shifters a lot.

What about Paul's Thumbies with barcon shifters?

http://www.paulcomp.com/thumbmtn.html

Just utilise the friction option. As I understand it, it's not the position of the stem shifters that was the important thing, it was having shifters that didn't click (index)but worked by friction.

but I think the best FRICTION-MODE model ever are the old SunTour barcons which can be had for about $10 on ebay.

I definitely agree they are the best, but I'm guessing you haven't priced them lately.

I definitely agree they are the best, but I'm guessing you haven't priced them lately.
Whoa! Looks like they're going for about $30+ these days. I got mine at a swap meet for $5, still attached to a pair of drop bars. I'm gonna hang onto these babies... they're my precccciioussss :D I dunno if I could bear the thought of shifting with anything else now.

I also have a couple pairs of SunTour Accushift 7-speed bar-end shifters which I got for free. They look to be pretty nice too.

The shifting problems you describe are often caused by a bent rear derailler hanger. This must be checked with a hanger alignment tool, as you cant tell just by eyeballing it. Ask your bike shop to check with this tool

Ive tried moving the shifters in a bit, that has them kind of out of the way, but not enough...regardless of that tho, its that annoying thing of not being able to get them set perfectly.


Moving the shifters would require re-adjusting the cable length to correct the shifter's indexing.

New cables and cable housings will usually make a big improvement to index shifting.

Having said that, I too appreciate the advantages of friction shifting.

Al

Look in this thread:

http://www.bikeforums.net/showthread.php?t=220587

Stacey seems to have bar end shifters on straight bars.

Look in this thread:

http://www.bikeforums.net/showthread.php?t=220587

Stacey seems to have bar end shifters on straight bars.
The bike in the photo doesn't have straight bars, it has mustache bars and these are suitable for bar end shifters since the ends turn back almost parallel with the frame.

something I needed to add, based on a couple responses, is that this bike is pretty new, just got it this year and havent put many miles on it at all yet.
Theres not any real reason for it to be damaged as we havent wrecked it or bumped it and the guy did a complete check up when we bought it to make sure it was all operating properly.

The bike shop mechanic showed me how to adjust almost everything as far as easy stuff goes and its been fairly fine except for the one issue of one gear or so not always wanting to change.

Ive been reading up on the index shifters and it isnt completely uncommon for one gear to be out just as Ive been seeing...and from what Ive read it there isnt any adjustment for a single gear in the shifter if its not sitting right.

Im going to go with the shimano downtube shifters someone presented earlier...what I need to know now is do I need to have a specific one for a 24 speed or will any do?
Ive noticed some list 8 or 10 speed and some dont say anything at all...so what do I need to look for?

thanks for all the help so far. :)

Agreed with the index, my barcons have index or friction, and I always run them in friction mode, plenty of times I shift when in index and it just clicks for a while, realy hate that. with frictions I may not drop directly into the gear I'm aiming for, but it's very simple to adjust it.
I prefer them.

Ken.