Washington Post: Front Page W&OD Article

[drolldurham]

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/08/17/AR2006081701613.html

"Good point" or "Sensationalized hype"? I'm leaning towards the latter. Yes, there were three tragic deaths. Yes, there are a**holes on the bike trail. But come on, the bike trail is not a death trap.

[linux_author]

- anyone who has lived in N. Va/DC/People's Republik of MD knows what a******* folks are on the roads, so it's no big surprise that casual trail users might think the same of a 'certain class' of riders (the implication in the article being 'roadies'?)

- i can see how some folks might think that way... i've witnessed the same described behavior down here... watched a roadie, riding at 20+ mph, whiz by two friends stopped BY THE SIDE of the trail, then clip a mirror off my friend's handlebar... the rider kept going and never stopped... no apologies, 'sorry,' nothing!

- now i realize that this was aberrant behavior... yes, roadies ride fast, often faster than posted limits on trails... i also realize the impression of unfriendliness is due to concentration and 'in the zone' focus on the part of the rider...

- i'll leave the debate about trail/no trail and freds and peds up to others here...

:-)

[slagjumper]

Seems like this is a good problem to have. If too many cyclists are using this trail, city planners should start expanding cycling facilities and safety education programs.

[JohnBrooking]

Seems like this trail is on the leading edge of how to accomodate growing numbers of cyclists. Too many people in too small a space, with different agendas. (Gee, just like roads!) They mention a 15 MPH speed limit, which might be okay for recreational cruising, but most commuters are not going to want to keep it under 15. I know I wouldn't want to.

[GGDub]

I see this on our MUP here lots. Its not the speed really (I ride a SS and can't go fast) its the passing on blind corners, pathway pacelines and competitive commuters who are the problem (the ones who get pissed when they are passed and then wheelsuck). At 30 km/hr one can still stop pretty quickly, provided you can see far enough ahead. What makes me laugh the most is when I see some dudes with safety vests, mirrors the whole shebang doing 30+ km/hr drafting someone who doesn't know they're there (which means they don't call out peds, obstacles etc), but I guess they're safe because they're wearing a vest!

[nm+]

Yeah, on issue with MUP design is some moron decided that blind corners and "meandering" was a good thing. Building a safe bath requires that we be able to see whats coming up. Also, a center line is indispensable, esp when theres a blind curve. I notice in the picture there isn't one.
What they probably should do is divide the trail into two paths going each direction, wide enough for at least two bikes abreast. There's a few streches like that on American River Trail (a pretty good trail for going long distances if you watch out for the homeless), and you definitly feel safer going faster on them, as you can pass everywhere and no one's coming at you.
Of course, it doesn't negate the morons who wdon't bother with a simple "on your left."
Trails need to be seen as bike "freeways," wide enough for sustained speeds with minimal crossings, esigned for commuters going to and from residental areas outside of downtown, much lik freeway atries are designed. These cannot be seen to negate the importance of good on-street facilities, given that they will need to eb the last few miles.

[Da Tinker]

Hmmm. The article states this two way MUP is 8 - 10 feet wide. And yet the AASHTO standard for a one way is 10 feet. So there is a design problem. Then add in a wide range of users, moving at a wide range of speeds, we got some real issues.

Many MUPs did not seriously consider cyclists in their design, hence the narrow, winding nature. Nice for walkers, but tough for the fast-movers.

[Keith99]

More deaths in hte last year than the 31 years before that. Seems to most likely be just a statistical fluke.

It is also worth noting that 2 out of 3 deaths involved cars. To me that means a bike path that crosses roads. Often that means cyclists who have gotten into the mindset of no cars and cars who have bikes pop up where they did not expect them (or anything else). That perhaps is a death trap.

[ken cummings]

The Long Beach MUP is an interesting variation. The foot traffic is striped off to a 4 foot section towards the shore and the cyclists have two 5 foot lanes. I rarely had trouble with Peds crossing over onto the bike section. Most walkers understood the danger of steping into high speed traffic. The only two things bad about the path were deep sand on both sides and a silly gate at one end that was closed at night so as a commuter I had to carry my bike around it in the sand for 20 feet.

[markf]

There's an increasing tendency for the roadies to bike on the roads around here, even though we have a very extensive shared use path network. I think it makes life more pleasant for the families on their once a month bike ride, the walkers, the joggers, and just about everyone. It's also safer for everyone, since the fastest moving and most aggressive riders are on the roads where they belong.

We do get the occasional yahoo yelling at cyclists to "get on the bike path", but the local police are pretty supportive of cyclists who ride on the road and obey the vehicle laws.

[carless]

Yeah, on issue with MUP design is some moron decided that blind corners and "meandering" was a good thing. Building a safe bath requires that we be able to see whats coming up. Also, a center line is indispensable, esp when theres a blind curve. I notice in the picture there isn't one.
What they probably should do is divide the trail into two paths going each direction, wide enough for at least two bikes abreast. There's a few streches like that on American River Trail (a pretty good trail for going long distances if you watch out for the homeless), and you definitly feel safer going faster on them, as you can pass everywhere and no one's coming at you.
Of course, it doesn't negate the morons who wdon't bother with a simple "on your left."
Trails need to be seen as bike "freeways," wide enough for sustained speeds with minimal crossings, esigned for commuters going to and from residental areas outside of downtown, much lik freeway atries are designed. These cannot be seen to negate the importance of good on-street facilities, given that they will need to eb the last few miles.
The AR trail is strictly a recreational trail. It is not designed for going to work. I like the congestion, mishaps and publicity this MUP is generating. maybe they will expand it, or make it go places. More bikes=safer.

[UmneyDurak]

Heh everyone hates roadies. On a road it's cars, on a bike trails it's other bikers.

[oboeguy]

This looks, unfortunately, like the future of the Hudson Greenway in NYC. Over the last couple of years it has become VERY popular and quite crowded at peak usage times. There's one section were, *cough* the wealthier set *cough* tend to use the path where guess what? barrieres are put up as "traffic calming" measures and official park maintainers once in a while yell at cyclists for going to fast. Sure, traffic calming is great, but doing it only where folks tie up their fancy boats while section further north suffer neglect? Please! Anyhow, classism aside, it's going to become worse, IMO. The last two bike crashes I've witnessed have been on this path (head on cyclist on cyclist!).

[John E]

Heh everyone hates roadies. On a road it's cars, on a bike trails it's other bikers ... and pedestrians.

The other big problem I have is with 3-abreast joggers, all of whom presumably drive cars at other times, hogging the entire Class II bike lane on Coast Highway 101 through Carlsbad.

[AndrewP]

The increased bike traffic would justify upgrading the trail. Improve sight-lines on bends, underpasses at intersections with vehicle traffic, turn the path to make the bikes face oncoming motor traffic before crossing the road.. The Lachine canal bike path here in Montreal has a parallel gravel path for pedestrians, dog walkers and joggers. The bike path gets pretty crowded during the commute home in summer evenings.

[PaulH]

I ride that trail every few months when I drop off/pick up one of our cars from a shop in Falls Church. Whoever wrote that piece lives in an alternate universe. Maybe it is bad on weekends, but the commuters at rush hour are very polite and well behaved.

The thing that sucks about the WO&D is the bad signage. Try to find it from the connecting roads, or find the right exit to the road you want.

Paul

[sbhikes]

Traffic jams on the bike path? That could only mean that good facilities invite more people to ride bicycles!

Now all you need are more and better facilities. And if the traffic is too bad on the bike path, just use the street. That's what I do.

[cc_rider]

My post on this subject from the commuter forum.
"One solution - add a couple feet of width of the trail and a Jersey barrier right down the middle.:eek: :p

I often do part of my rides on the W&OD, since it runs near both my home and office. Usually only have a "crowding" problem in a few places, middle of Vienna, Reston Town Center, middle of Falls Church, Partlow's in Ashburn. The more common problem is rude or stupid behavior. Not paying attention, reckless or selfish behavior, poor bike skills, not riding or walking in a way that makes it easier/safer for other to use the trail. Where it really is crowded, most people slow down and pay attention. The places between the crowds can be dangerous."

I was on the first 7 miles of the W&OD today, and several other local trails and roads. Except for the street crossings at Columbia Pike and at Washington Blvd where everyone bunches up while waiting, the trail was not very crowded, espicially for a weekend. Mount Vernon Trail wasn't crowded, nor was Beach Drive, Rock Creek and most of the Capital Crescent. Worst was CCT approaching Bethesda, along the river and the parts of the Custis Trail (busy for 9:30am)
Maybe there was a MUP boycott today.:rolleyes:

Did see some stupid behavior, some by bikes and some by runners, but not in the crowded areas and none of it on the W&OD.