Living Car Free - How to Save Money on a Small Income

Here's a silly article on how to save BIG money on a small income. It listed ideas such as savings your $5.00 dollars bills in a coffee jar or sock money each month for your car insurance! How about getting rid of your car insurance by comming car free?? It's insane how someone making 18K a year can afford to drive a car in the first place.

All of those so called savings plans are just wishful thinking because a car will bleed you to death. There is no way you can save on that little bit of money when 20% of your income is going on transportation costs. All those 5 dollars bills in that coffee jar will end up paying for gasoline. I couldn't save any money at twice that income while owning a motorcar.

I think we can come up with a better solution on how to save money on a small income. I'll start it off right now and you can forget looking for pennies in your couch!

1. Sell your car and become carfree.

http://articles.moneycentral.msn.com/SavingandDebt/SaveMoney/SavebigOnATinyIncome.aspx

From the article:
>>>>10. Divide and conquer. Divide the total amount of your car insurance (or other irregular expense) by 12 and sock away that amount each month so you don't get caught short. Lea says she won't blow her holiday budget this year because she's used this system to save each month for gifts.<<<<

Steve,
I agree with your assesment of the car bleeding you to death. But! that is the beauty of budgeting, if you do it right it will show you exactly how much money you have and where it is going. And that is one of the reasons I don't have cable TV. We are only home 80 some days out of the year, why would I want to pay $70 a month for something I'm not using less than 20% of the year:p If you do it right it is a real eye opener. Unfortunately most people don't do it and have no clue where their money goes. Wanna guess how much my beautiful bride was spending on Sweet Tea and bottled water? (Hint: it was enough to buy a tank of gas a month:eek: ) but the budget/tracking showed it, and now she takes it from home in a thermos.:p

Aaron:)

Reams of money saving tips to read on this site..........

http://www.stretcher.com/index.cfm

The topical index is HUGE!!

(removed my OP as it was.....well....dumb. )

All of those so called savings plans are just wishful thinking because a car will bleed you to death. There is no way you can save on that little bit of money when 20% of your income is going on transportation costs. All those 5 dollars bills in that coffee jar will end up paying for gasoline. I couldn't save any money at twice that income while owning a motorcar.


Making statements like that doesn't make you more credible with the driving crowd, no matter the response you get here preaching to the choir.

What kind of car are you theoretically driving that you can't afford to put any money in savings while making 32k a year?

Making statements like that doesn't make you more credible with the driving crowd, no matter the response you get here preaching to the choir.

What kind of car are you theoretically driving that you can't afford to put any money in savings while making 32k a year?
How much do you spend on your car?

I currently sit in the $28,000 range. With all my bills right now, i'm looking at about $700/month in expenses. I probably could drive if I wanted to, but even for a beater I bet it would cost me at least 100+ per month, and that's just making 1-2 trips per month for the groceries, with insurance at $50-70. Plus, my moral conscience would hate me for it.;)

How much do you spend on your car?

A 1992 Toyota Tercel will run you about $2000 in good condition, and probably cost you a quart of oil every month ($48/yr). $3/gal for gas, you get ~30mpg at the low end. So you drive 20 miles a day, that's ~7500 miles a year. ~250 gallons of gasoline, that's $750.

So if I bought a new used tercel every year, I'd spend $2800 annually to have a car. If I kept that tercel for 4 or 5 years, my annual costs would be lower.

So now that's out there, what are you spending the rest of your $29,200 on?

EDIT: insurance, of course. Call it $75/mo, so an extra $800 a year. Now you only have $28,400.

I currently sit in the $28,000 range. With all my bills right now, i'm looking at about $700/month in expenses. I probably could drive if I wanted to, but even for a beater I bet it would cost me at least 100+ per month, and that's just making 1-2 trips per month for the groceries, with insurance at $50-70. Plus, my moral conscience would hate me for it.;)

I used to drive a beater, a real piece of junk, and it was still costing me over $300.00/month. Even seemingly cheap cars will drain your account pretty significantly if you fail to pay attention. (Of course, the money I save by going carless is being frittered away on bike stuff, hours spent in coffee shops, going to pubs to listen to music, and very foolishly buying a sailboat, but at least I'm now able to do these things without going into debt.)

A 1992 Toyota Tercel will run you about $2000 in good condition, and probably cost you a quart of oil every month ($48/yr). $3/gal for gas, you get ~30mpg at the low end. So you drive 20 miles a day, that's ~7500 miles a year. ~250 gallons of gasoline, that's $750.

So if I bought a new used tercel every year, I'd spend $2800 annually to have a car. If I kept that tercel for 4 or 5 years, my annual costs would be lower.

So now that's out there, what are you spending the rest of your $29,200 on?

EDIT: insurance, of course. Call it $75/mo, so an extra $800 a year. Now you only have $28,400.

You forgot repairs, a 1992 car is now 14 years old, and will need repairs, I don't think I ever had a car repair that didn't cost at least $500:eek: . So considering 6 repair jobs a year, that's another $3,000 and you thought old cars were cheaper.

I used to drive a beater, a real piece of junk, and it was still costing me over $300.00/month. Even seemingly cheap cars will drain your account pretty significantly if you fail to pay attention. (Of course, the money I save by going carless is being frittered away on bike stuff, hours spent in coffee shops, going to pubs to listen to music, and very foolishly buying a sailboat, but at least I'm now able to do these things without going into debt.)
Heh, You seem to be in the same 'boat' as me;) I spend a lot of money as well, on the coffees(cadence!!), lots of bike stuff, plus I go to a lot of shows & concerts, don't have the boat tho.:) Still, i'm much happier this way, i'm healthier, skinnier, sleep better...one way or the other, your account's gonna get drained.

You forgot repairs, a 1992 car is now 14 years old, and will need repairs, I don't think I ever had a car repair that didn't cost at least $500:eek: . So considering 6 repair jobs a year, that's another $3,000 and you thought old cars were cheaper.

6 repair jobs a year? $500 a repair? Maybe you need to switch to more reliable, less exotic cars.

I based all my information on my roommate. I specifically mentioned a 1992 tercel for a reason.

He recharges the freon (yes, freon, his parents bought a big tank of it before it was illegal to sell) every couple years, and puts in a quart of oil every month. The last "repair" work he did was to replace his stereo faceplate.

It depends totally on where you live. In Ontario, nobody gets away with less than $1000/yr for insurance, and it frequently runs up to $5000, especially if you are under 25.

When I started out on my own (about 15 years ago) I was making $28,000/yr. My take-home was $860 biweekly, so about $1900/month. I spent $500/month renting a room, $300/month for my $3000 car, and $500/month on my insurance. I'm not sure about repairs, but it was probably a few thousand a year.

I was barely hanging on every month. I can't believe I got my student loans paid off with that much money draining away.

I only wish I had thought about being car-free back then.

I spent 2200 euro on my car three years ago. Registration is 70 euro a year and insurance is 60 euro a year. I fill up the tank about once every three months which costs about 35 euro. Throw in another 100 euro for maintence and the total so for has been a little over 1000 euro a year, or 84 euro a month. The monthly sum will go down the longer I own the car. It is possible to have a low cost car for the times when you NEED one.

Lots of things bleed people to death.

Heck, go look at razor cartridges for a prime example of expensive...Those Fusion cartridges are like $4 each! EACH! That's ridiculous. Someone could get a double-edge "safety" razor or a straight razor, and save quite a bit of cash compared to these cartridges, and get just as good of a shave, if not better.

Same goes for our food...we could save quite a bit of cash by ignoring coupons. Coupons are a great marketing ploy: Make people buy more because they "saved money on it", regardless of if they really wanted it in the first place. Pretty much it's a ploy that pulls on a person's impulse control. Just go buy what you want, and don't buy any more perishable food than you need. Keep your pantry relatively bare as well. There is no such thing as saving money by spending more.

Reducing gas and electricity usage is a must. Keep in mind a TV consumes tremendous levels of power. And many of those Plasma TVs are actually worse than most CRT TVs in power consumption once you get past around 30". Consider floursecent bulbs in as many places as possible, or even LED cluster bulbs if you can afford them (less replacing, and lower power consumption compared to a regular bulb, plus less heat output). LED bulbs are best used in places where the lights will be used constantly and for extended durations, like living room lights.

Fixing the seals in your windows and doors is a fantastic way to shave a large amount of cash from your electricity bill. If you can see light through the seal, you are losing money in the form or heating/cooling through it.

TURN OFF YOUR COMPUTER WHEN IT'S NOT IN USE! A "gaming" desktop computer can eat up as much as $30 in power a month if left idle....more if you are running one of those folding programs on it. A more normal desktop computer could put $10-20 per month in electricity costs. So be sure to power it off when it's not in use. This goes for printers/monitors/computer speakers/etc.

I agree with everything you say EXCEPT this bit...

Same goes for our food...we could save quite a bit of cash by ignoring coupons. Coupons are a great marketing ploy: Make people buy more because they "saved money on it", regardless of if they really wanted it in the first place. Pretty much it's a ploy that pulls on a person's impulse control. Just go buy what you want, and don't buy any more perishable food than you need. Keep your pantry relatively bare as well. There is no such thing as saving money by spending more.
This can save you money as long as you are organised - we have a monthly shopping budget and plan what meals we are going to have. If you do this then you can take advantage of buying in bulk for useful items that you will use. Check what products can be frozen for later use.
Where people go wrong is trying to 'buy up' in order to save money, which results in exactly what you describe.

I agree, but I usually find that instead of it being used within the month, it usually sits "out of sight, out of mind" in the freezer. So after many failed attempts at organizing my meals and freezing stuff, I just said to heck with it and just buy what I will use for that week.

It also keeps the fridge nice and neat, which is a great bonus. The only things that stay in there for any duration are condiments and beer (I usually have one beer a week, so a sixer lasts me a while).

Making statements like that doesn't make you more credible with the driving crowd, no matter the response you get here preaching to the choir.

What kind of car are you theoretically driving that you can't afford to put any money in savings while making 32k a year?

You might have a point there. At the time, my rent, utilities, food, cell phone, student loans and credit cards alone were about $1,100.00 - $1,200.00 dollars per month. That would leave me about $100.00 dollars per week or less for descretionary income. In other words, I had about the same amount of spendable income of a high school teenager living at home. The 32K salary may go a long way in Idaho, but you'll struggle big time living in any major city. I guess you'll eventually become more responsible with money as you get older but the real savings didn't occur until I eliminated my second biggest expense. The motorcar.

You forgot repairs, a 1992 car is now 14 years old, and will need repairs, I don't think I ever had a car repair that didn't cost at least $500:eek: . So considering 6 repair jobs a year, that's another $3,000 and you thought old cars were cheaper.


I have a 1991 Subaru Legacy 4WD wagon with 160K on it. Bought it in 1999 for $5000 cash. When I got it I put ~$500 into it for some repairs. Two years ago I spent $1000 for struts and tires. Since then it has just been oil changes and routine maintenance. Insurance is $300/yr. I drive it once or twice a week. It looks good and is still reliable enough for a road trip.

When this car goes away I'm not sure what I will do. I certainly won't take on payments for another one. If I decide I need another car I'd wait til I could pay for one in full.

What kind of car are you theoretically driving that you can't afford to put any money in savings while making 32k a year?

32k a year would be a lot of money for me! I could work a couple years and then take a couple years off. I've never made more than $16k/yr in my life (according to the SS statement I just got.) I've been living on less than $10k (taxable) for several years now as I've been a 30-something f/t college student. My tuition is paid with Pell grants and scholarships at a low-cost state college. I have few bills otherwise: rent, phone (no cell phone), electric bill. These are shared with bf I live with. Otherwise there are groceries and anything else we want to buy (mostly bike stuff). No other debts otherwise. We do have money in savings too. We don't feel deprived. My bf has a 1994 Toyota truck that is a similiar situation to my Subaru described above.

So if I bought a new used tercel every year, I'd spend $2800 annually to have a car. If I kept that tercel for 4 or 5 years, my annual costs would be lower.

So now that's out there, what are you spending the rest of your $29,200 on?

EDIT: insurance, of course. Call it $75/mo, so an extra $800 a year. Now you only have $28,400.

Wait a second. A 32K salary is about $1,500.00 dollars a month net income (providing you're contributing to a 401K as you should be). Rent alone for a one room apartment can set you back about $1200- $900 USD in the New York Metro. I suspect this is the case in many cities but this leaves you about $500-$700 (or less) dollars a month to play with. You now take this money and pay off your credit cards, student loans, food, utilites, cable bill, cell phone bill, lunch and what are you left with? You haven't purchased any clothing, vacations, gifts or how about dating or just going out with the guys! If you have to spend a significant portion of this $500-$700 on a vehicle, now you're really broke!

Saving $3,500.00 hundred dollars a year for a car was a lot of money for me back then and still is! That's what you have to make (pretax) in order to spend $2,800.00 dollars on a used car. It would take about 5 months of saving every penny I had to come up with that kind of money.

Reams of money saving tips to read on this site..........

http://www.stretcher.com/index.cfm

The topical index is HUGE!!

(removed my OP as it was.....well....dumb. )

Very good website. Thanks

Lots of things bleed people to death...
Consider floursecent bulbs in as many places as possible, or even LED cluster bulbs if you can afford them (less replacing, and lower power consumption compared to a regular bulb, plus less heat output). LED bulbs are best used in places where the lights will be used constantly and for extended durations, like living room lights.


This is assuming you have no use for the extra heat generated by less effective bulbs (you talk about heating later in your post). My house heating is done with electricity, and it is on 24/7 about 8 months per year. I don't need it in the summer, so then any extra heat is wasted. But I don't have much use for lamps in the summer anyway, as there's usually more than enough natural light. I still use "energy-saving" bulbs, as they are more durable and work better in outdoor lights, for example. But energy-wise they're not that much cheaper for me.

--J

It's true that you can help heat your house by running inefficient indoor appliances. It's the same cost as electric resistance heating. It's about triple the cost of operating a heat pump. It's more expensive than gas heat, too (I don't know by how much though).

Compact fluorescents work well for me. It's hot nine months of the year where I live. We get more than double the expected electricity savings for efficient appliances. That's because any wasted power indoors also has to be pumped out by air conditioning.

When I used incandescent lights, I tended to use the 130V "long life" bulbs. They are even more energy inefficient than regular incandescents. I think people using air conditioning who change their whole house from 130V bulbs to CF will be surprised at the immediate electricity savings.

Reams of money saving tips to read on this site..........

http://www.stretcher.com/index.cfm

The topical index is HUGE!!

(removed my OP as it was.....well....dumb. )

I pulled this "money saving" idea from that website in an article about car options worth having:

"Cooled and heated cup holders:
Now here's an option we all can appreciate. In the all-new 2007 Chrysler Sebring sedan, the front cup holders can be cooled or heated to handle whatever drinks are on board. No word on the price yet, but it's likely to be a big hit and will quickly become a feature on other vehicles."

My idea of stretching my dollars must be different from theirs.

"Moneyless living" anyone???

http://www.zenzibar.com/Articles/moneyless.htm

6 repair jobs a year? $500 a repair? Maybe you need to switch to more reliable, less exotic cars.

I based all my information on my roommate. I specifically mentioned a 1992 tercel for a reason.

He recharges the freon (yes, freon, his parents bought a big tank of it before it was illegal to sell) every couple years, and puts in a quart of oil every month. The last "repair" work he did was to replace his stereo faceplate.
Freon is illegal because it does irreparable harm to the atmosphere that shields us all from cosmic radiation. Your "roommate" should be in jail. I would sentence him to be put in a cell with a huge sun lamp in it 24 hours a day. And no a/c.

For anybody interested in the real expenses of owning a car, rather than the fantasies this guy is spouting, there are many web-based and paper-based calculators that will give you a more accurate idea. 475/month for insurance? Ridiculously low. No repairs for a '92 car? I've owned toyotas; they're relatively reliable, but any 15 year old car is prone to breakdowns and is polluting worse than even big new SUVs. What do you hink is happening to that "quart of oil a month"? Either it's leaking into the groundwater, or we're breathing in the fumes when we sit behind this smoke spewing idiot on our bikes.

"Moneyless living" anyone???

http://www.zenzibar.com/Articles/moneyless.htm


Truthfully, I thought that article was creepy. I am all about living simply but dumpster diving for thrown out Grocery Store food is not the choice that I would make. It's different if you are put in that position where you had to, but I would not choose that life style.:eek:

Freon is illegal because it does irreparable harm to the atmosphere that shields us all from cosmic radiation. Your "roommate" should be in jail. I would sentence him to be put in a cell with a huge sun lamp in it 24 hours a day. And no a/c.

.

You are quite incorrect. When the ban went into place, it was on the manufacture of NEW R-12 coolant. There is no restriction on the use of existing stocks, and assuming this large tank was purchased before the ban it is quite legal (and a huge money saver, if you have looked into the price of R-12 lately). R-12 also makes much colder air than the new coolant, I kind of miss it.

Agree that that article is creepy. if you have to dumpster dive for food ...........well, its seems quite a stretch to say that is what you want to be doing and how you really want to live your life.

You might as well sho up at soup kitchens and pretend to be homeless at that rate.

I guess you could panhandle also......

This is assuming you have no use for the extra heat generated by less effective bulbs (you talk about heating later in your post). My house heating is done with electricity, and it is on 24/7 about 8 months per year. I don't need it in the summer, so then any extra heat is wasted. But I don't have much use for lamps in the summer anyway, as there's usually more than enough natural light. I still use "energy-saving" bulbs, as they are more durable and work better in outdoor lights, for example. But energy-wise they're not that much cheaper for me.

--J

Heat production (or lack therefo) by the fluorescent or LED bulbs can be offset through a miraculous advance in technology known as a sweater.

Bonus to LED bulbs is the well designed ones are incredibly efficient.

It also depends on your application. For example, the lighting in my living room os obscene in power draw....five 35w bulbs (cieling fan). I'm still working on finding a suitable fluorescent replacement, or a LED lamp that will fit.

My goal this year is to get my electricity bills below $100/mo, that is around a 30% drop in electricity usage.

You are quite incorrect. When the ban went into place, it was on the manufacture of NEW R-12 coolant. There is no restriction on the use of existing stocks, and assuming this large tank was purchased before the ban it is quite legal (and a huge money saver, if you have looked into the price of R-12 lately). R-12 also makes much colder air than the new coolant, I kind of miss it.

The manufacture of freon was banned in most countries for a very good reason: it was destroying the ozone layer, upon which most land-based life on Earth depends. Had the ban not been put into effect as quickly as it was, back in the early 1990's most of the ozone layer would be gone by now, with truly dreadful results. Whether or not the use of existing stocks is legal should be irrelevant. The fact that you see nothing wrong with using the R-12 that's left, and even miss it, simply so you can sit in a more fully air-conditioned car, is pretty f******* up.

Going back to saving money....

We buy in bulk.

Wait, 'tis canning season. Tomatoes are $11.99 a bushel, 53 pounds - 15 to 21 quarts of tomato sauce and whole tomatoes. My wife also makes salsa with them.
We'll probably do 3 bushels this year as we're getting a bit low. (about 30 jars left from last years)

Every 2 or 3 years we'll do pickles, because we don't eat them too much.

The manufacture of freon was banned in most countries for a very good reason: it was destroying the ozone layer, upon which most land-based life on Earth depends. Had the ban not been put into effect as quickly as it was, back in the early 1990's most of the ozone layer would be gone by now, with truly dreadful results. Whether or not the use of existing stocks is legal should be irrelevant. The fact that you see nothing wrong with using the R-12 that's left, and even miss it, simply so you can sit in a more fully air-conditioned car, is pretty f******* up.

You missed the point. All I'm saying is that unless "disagreeing with Roody" is a crime, there is no reason for that poster's roommate to belong in jail. I don't even have AC, so my relative level ****ed-uppedness (in your judgement) is purely academic.

With so many Americans paying like 28% of their income for gasoline and car payments; your car free goal is first step towards solvency. Sure beats, living in a tent and eating beans every meal.
If only your employer will respect such a decision and public transportation allows you freedom of movement.

A classic book on the subject is "Your Money or Your Life." I forget the authors' names and am too lazy to search now. It's a Penguin that's been through decades of reprints and revisions.


We used freon for many decades, and their are countless installed a/c systems that still use it. I'm glad they banned it, it was the right thing to do, but let's go easy on the hyperbole. If we went another decade or two that would not have destroyed "most" of the ozone layer and had "disasterous" effects. I too miss that super-cold auto air on a hot day, just as I miss carburated big block V-8s, but that doesn't mean I'm suggesting we should still be making them.

Heat production (or lack therefo) by the fluorescent or LED bulbs can be offset through a miraculous advance in technology known as a sweater.

True dat, but not relevant. I could replace all my lights with chemical lightsticks, but I would not see a whole lot of change in my electricity bill. That's because a) I have to heat the house somehow for the most part of the year and b) the vast majority of that heat comes from electricity.

Lowering room temperature (which is what you suggest above) is another matter entirely, and there's a limit on how much you can do that. More savings could be had if I settled for firing up the (electrically heated) sauna only once a month instead of once a week.

Someone mentioned heat pump, I have looked into it and currently it seems it might pay for itself in about 5-7 years, depending on how energy prices fluctuate. That's not counting maintenance costs, and in all likelihood there would be some during that time. So cost-wise it is not a clear winner yet, but it has other benefits that make me kind of like the idea.

--J

"Moneyless living" anyone???

http://www.zenzibar.com/Articles/moneyless.htm
Foraging is a good one - there are tons of blackberries around here at the moment and picking them provides not only free food, but free entertainment for the kids as well.

I think housing is No.1 when it comes to saving money, car No.2, and utilities No.3. I'd knock out 1 and 3 while minimizing 2, then go for the killing blow and knock 2 out once I'm done with 1 and 3.

True dat, but not relevant. I could replace all my lights with chemical lightsticks, but I would not see a whole lot of change in my electricity bill. That's because a) I have to heat the house somehow for the most part of the year and b) the vast majority of that heat comes from electricity.

Lowering room temperature (which is what you suggest above) is another matter entirely, and there's a limit on how much you can do that. More savings could be had if I settled for firing up the (electrically heated) sauna only once a month instead of once a week.

Someone mentioned heat pump, I have looked into it and currently it seems it might pay for itself in about 5-7 years, depending on how energy prices fluctuate. That's not counting maintenance costs, and in all likelihood there would be some during that time. So cost-wise it is not a clear winner yet, but it has other benefits that make me kind of like the idea.

--J

I guess it's a climate difference. In the winter here, I don't even use any heat. I just crack the bedroom windows and let nature keep the place cool. In the summer though, I see a $100-150 spike in how much I have to pay. In the winter, pretty much the water heater is most of my bills. I wonder what a tankless heater would do for the bills, but since this isn't "my" apartment (renter), I'm going to leave that be. I will upgrade the door seals and window seals though.


....but again, back in indiana I didn't spend too much on heat either....in the winters I kept the place at 65f. I figured wear a sweater, and at the least the beer will be acceptably chilled even at room temp :)

Foraging is a good one - there are tons of blackberries around here at the moment and picking them provides not only free food, but free entertainment for the kids as well.

I just started picking up burdock roots on the way home this summer. Good eating! I'm sure the runners on the MUP think I'm some nut job digging in the dirt on the side of the path, but twice a week I get my veggies for free.

475/month for insurance? Ridiculously low.
Where are you getting insurance from? The only way it should be this high is if it's brand new, and probably over the 30,000 mark with full coverage. My used car was something in the range of 75/month. Only if you were 18 would it be higher than this. Maybe you meant 475 per YEAR.

A classic book on the subject is "You're Money or You're Life." I forget the authors' names (something like Friehl?) and am too lazy to search now. It's a Penguin that's been through decades of reprints and revisions.


the authors' names are Joe Dominguez and Vicki Robin. It's a classic, and I also highly recommend it to anyone who wants to live better on less.

I just started picking up burdock roots on the way home this summer. Good eating! I'm sure the runners on the MUP think I'm some nut job digging in the dirt on the side of the path, but twice a week I get my veggies for free.

Our foraging this summer has been mostly mulberries (lots of local competition for them) and snails...

We also have an apple tree that come with the house, and rhubarb roots that were passed on to us for free.

You missed the point. All I'm saying is that unless "disagreeing with Roody" is a crime, there is no reason for that poster's roommate to belong in jail. I don't even have AC, so my relative level ****ed-uppedness (in your judgement) is purely academic.
I thought the idiot should be in the sunlamp jail because he's thoughtlessly messing with the atmosphere, not because he broke any laws. You might want to check with your community college about a class on the environment. You don't seem to realize that those who pollute are putting YOUR life at danger, and you have a right to be ticked off about that.

Condescension like that is exactly what turns people off on the whole concept of car free. You have no idea about my level of education, or really if I even disagree with you, but because you perceive that I disagree, it must be an educational failing. I don't particularly care really, I'll keep living my life as I do (which for the record, involves an awful lot of bicycling for transportation) because it works well for me. Another thing to consider is that some people are car free because they perceive cars as a waste of money, not out of any particular environmental concern. But seriously, when you want to jump down the throat of anyone you think might disagree, you don't win any converts to the cause.

Freon is illegal because it does irreparable harm to the atmosphere that shields us all from cosmic radiation. Your "roommate" should be in jail. I would sentence him to be put in a cell with a huge sun lamp in it 24 hours a day. And no a/c.

For anybody interested in the real expenses of owning a car, rather than the fantasies this guy is spouting, there are many web-based and paper-based calculators that will give you a more accurate idea. 475/month for insurance? Ridiculously low. No repairs for a '92 car? I've owned toyotas; they're relatively reliable, but any 15 year old car is prone to breakdowns and is polluting worse than even big new SUVs. What do you hink is happening to that "quart of oil a month"? Either it's leaking into the groundwater, or we're breathing in the fumes when we sit behind this smoke spewing idiot on our bikes.

Nothing my roommate does with freon is illegal. Check the laws.

Check basic insurance rates on an old, slow, economy car when your license is point-free. That's what he pays.

I'm telling you his car doesn't break down. I can't remember one instance in the 3 years I've known him where it gave him any trouble, a vast difference from my parents' (now sold) 96 suburban, or my other roommate's 1999 nissan.

A quart of oil a month is nothing when you consider the gas mileage he gets in comparison to the gas-guzzlers.


I recognize that a huge undertone of this forum is doing what's best for the ecosystem, but this particular thread was oriented around living cheaply. Yes, he could do better by the environment by selling his tercel (can you say scrap heap) and buying a brand new hybrid, or living carfree. It's impractical for him to live without a car, and inconvenient to boot. Buying a hybrid is tens of thousands of dollars he doesn't have.

Speaking of economics, I still have my car, but when I told GEICO that I was going to bicycle commute to work and that my yearly mileage would be drastically reduced, they gave me an additional $200 off my yearly insurance.

Our foraging this summer has been mostly mulberries (lots of local competition for them) and snails...

We also have an apple tree that come with the house, and rhubarb roots that were passed on to us for free.

Wow, snails, that's hard core. I've also been gathering a bunch of lambs quarters, purslane, and dandelions from along the path. Steam them all together and splash with olive oil, salt, and pepper. tastes better than spinach and was cheaper and fresher. One of the huge advantages to bike commuting for me has been that it gets me out into the city parks were I can find these things.

the authors' names are Joe Dominguez and Vicki Robin. It's a classic, and I also highly recommend it to anyone who wants to live better on less.

+1

I bought a copy and thought it a great book... i then found a copy in the thrift for 79c and will be passing that on to a friend when they come to visit. :D :D :D

Yes!
Car free is genius!
My wife and I live on a small income as I am currently a full-time grad student.
I am not car free yet, and my wife lives to far from work to practically become car free, but we are selling my car, and as soon as it's sold I'm running to work, when I save the money I'll buy a bike and bike to work.
Additionally, we don't own a tv - no cable costs, no home phone, only a cell phone with the t-mobile basic plan ($29.99 month) with t-mobile hotspot access and gprs access for our laptop added on (also 29.99 month).
And pay only $325 for rent, with our only utility we have to pay, electricity being less than $20 a month.
I've figured that after my car is sold, with the car payment, insurance, and gas, I'll save at least $5000 a year!
Living simple is fun, and as long as you live below your means you'll have extra cash to spend.