Bicycle Mechanics - No braze ons !!!

The old bike im fitting out for a winter/ rain commuter has a near perfect re-paint job under all the grease & grime, but it has no braze ons , id like to fit 2 water bottle cages 1 to the down tube & 1 to the seat tube but I dont want to make a mess of the paint job & I dont want it to look too clunky, I ,spose to be in period it should have one of those double cages that used to fit on the h/bars, have,nt seen any around for yonks. Anybody got any ideas how to fit my b/cages onto the down &seat tubes without braze ons .Thanks
:beer:

How about on the seat? There are several cages for double bottles on the seat where a seat pack would normally hang. Out of the way and aerodynamically quite clean.

Oh I just might:
The Quick Cage™

Goes on any bike instantly, anywhere room is available on the frame or seat post. Great for cruiser bikes, BMX bikes, kids' bikes, and the serious commuter. The most convenient and cost-effective way to put a water bottle cage on a bike without braze-on lugs. Includes a 23 ounce water bottle with the Twofish insignia.


Bicycling Magazine's highest rating! July '96
see it here http://www.twofishunlimited.com/bike.html

You can get band-on cages. Don't look pretty, but they'l do. Use tape to cover the frame so the band doesn't chip it.

My Flying Scot has no bottle cage bosses/ I hang a cage from the saddle loops

Use rivnuts like they use on aluminium bikes. Ask your LBS

Any decent mechanic should be able to drill holes in your old steel frame and set water bottle mounts into the holes. Be sure that you drill a pilot hole (a small one) first so that when you drill the large one the bit doesnt slide down the side of the round tube and destroy your paint. The threaded inserts are fairly cheap, around $3 and the labor at a shop is around $20. A special tool is needed for setting the inserts so I would strongly recommend letting the LBS do it.

-Ryan

Originally posted by greywolf
The old bike im fitting out for a winter/ rain commuter has a near perfect re-paint job ....snip....... but I dont want to make a mess of the paint job & I dont want it to look too clunky, /snip Ok guys drilling holes isn't going to help the paint job one bit which was one of the main concerns. Geez read a post why don't you?

Zefal makes a plastic gizmo called the Gizmo. It clamps around the tube and allows for a bottle cage to be mounted. It is probably about as paint friendly as anything you will find. I've seen them at my LBS. I don't know who carries them online.

Click here for Zefal. (http://www.zefal.com/anglais/indexbidonsang.html) Then choose "cages" and scroll to the bottom of the page.

Check this out:

How to attach water bottles without braze-ons. (http://www.nordicgroup.us/cageboss.htm)

Or, of course, you could drill holes in your frame. :P

Don't tell me you would rather have this ****
http://www.nordicgroup.us/cageboss/keelnylo.gif or this
http://www.nordicgroup.us/cageboss/twofishcage.gif
attached to your bike rather than factory looking bottle mounts that were installed in the frame? Anyone who can use a drill can put these in without damaging the paint.http://www.sherex.com/assets/images/a_cal-series.gif

-Ryan

Well, the Zefal Gizmo doesn't look quite so cludgy. I stole the pic from the Nashbar site. You can buy them there.

Originally posted by BikerRyan
Any decent mechanic should be able to drill holes in your old steel frame and set water bottle mounts into the holes. Be sure that you drill a pilot hole (a small one) first so that when you drill the large one the bit doesnt slide down the side of the round tube and destroy your paint. The threaded inserts are fairly cheap, around $3 and the labor at a shop is around $20. A special tool is needed for setting the inserts so I would strongly recommend letting the LBS do it.

-Ryan Isn't it a bit difficult getting a drill in position to drill the holes?

You could use a drill press to get a whole exactly centered, and would have no problems positioning the drill then. Could be done with a hand drill to but would be a bit harder.

Ok enlighten me, how does one get a drill press inside the frame triangles to drill the hole straight? Hmmmm? 'splain dis to me Loozy?

It is best to use a drill block or jig to get the holes properly aligned and spaced, this is not a good thing to drill freehand. You also need a drill stop to keep from pushing through the hole and damaging the other side of the tube. This can be done without damaging the paint.

Seems to me you'd need a right angle drill or a flexible shaft on a moto-tool, plus a drill guide that could be clamped in place. Those aren't cheap tools so I'd say the LBS is the way to go unless you already have the tool or are planning on upgrading a lot of old bikes ;)

John

Originally posted by Kev
You could use a drill press to get a whole exactly centered, and would have no problems positioning the drill then. Could be done with a hand drill to but would be a bit harder. Sure...take the frame apart to use a drill press on it.:rolleyes: :rolleyes:

Most frames are big enough for a hand drill using a guide or a pilot hole to prevent the bit from slipping out of place. If a drill won't fit then a dremmel tool with a bit in it should slide in just fine. And a drill press, well thats applesauce.

-Ryan

Stop the drill! I have read that it is a bad idea to drill directly into a frame. There is a rather significant tendency that the threads will get stripped during normal use. I suppose braze-ons are stronger because they add extra metal into which the screw goes. I think you are stuck with some of the different band solutions already mentioned.

Cheers,
Jamie

Originally posted by jmlee
Stop the drill! I have read that it is a bad idea to drill directly into a frame. There is a rather significant tendency that the threads will get stripped during normal use. I suppose braze-ons are stronger because they add extra metal into which the screw goes. I think you are stuck with some of the different band solutions already mentioned.

Cheers,
Jamie Cdale and others use rivnuts in just a drilled or punched hole.A steel frame has to be lesss of an issue.

Thanks for your suggestion , web-sites & feed-back its given my brain some ideas to work on ! The rive-nut idea is good but I would convince my-self that I`ve put it in the wrong place , its not quite straight :( you know how it goes !
Thanks again:)

Cdale and others use rivnuts in just a drilled or punched hole.A steel frame has to be lesss of an issue.

Can rivnuts be used on a carbon frame?

^^^ Yes, some CF frames use rivets to hold the cable stops. Of course, it wouldn't be my 1st choice if I was shopping for a CF frame and saw rivets instead of molded in place bungs/bosses.

Here is just what you need if $40 isn't too much of an investment.

http://www.biketoolsetc.com/index.cgi?id=92531081272&d=single&c=Tools&sc=Frame-Building&tc=Jigs/Jiggers&item_id=SN-JIG

I usually take a normal water bottle cage and hose clamp it on the frame. Also it won't hurt your paint if you wrap electric paint where the hose clamp will go.

Zefal Gizmo is my vote. Click on the Falcon of England link in my signature to see one in use on the seat tube.

Here is just what you need if $40 isn't too much of an investment.

http://www.biketoolsetc.com/index.cgi?id=92531081272&d=single&c=Tools&sc=Frame-Building&tc=Jigs/Jiggers&item_id=SN-JIG

Thanks for the link. Now the question is what type of riv-nuts to use, Steel, Alum, or SS? Is there any functional difference with a CF frame? Theres certainly no dissimilar metal issues, but are there any incompatibility issue with either style? What about smooth vs splined?

Is the riv-nut kit for 89 the best way to go, or can I use a standard rivet gun for 1/8 or 1/4 rivets and a 10 pack of riv-nuts sufficient? Of course with the correct size drills, etc.

Can rivnuts be used on a carbon frame?

Now the question is what type of riv-nuts to use, Steel, Alum, or SS? Is there any functional difference with a CF frame? Theres certainly no dissimilar metal issues, but are there any incompatibility issue with either style? What about smooth vs splined?

Is the riv-nut kit for 89 the best way to go, or can I use a standard rivet gun for 1/8 or 1/4 rivets and a 10 pack of riv-nuts sufficient? Of course with the correct size drills, etc.

Zefal Gizmo is my vote.
+1 I would use the gizmo, cheaper + very little chance of ruining your frame.

If you are determined to use rivnut/nutsert, have a shop do it. If they mess-up, it's on them.

If DIY:Get some advice from a carbon builder 1st. Alum. rivnut/nutserts are softer, use them.
Standard rivet gun will not work.
Good Luck.


Or buy one of these
http://www.aircraftspruce.com/menus/to/rivnuttools.html

Hmmmm..... I'm normally one for trying things, but with carbon fibre, I have serious doubts about an amateur using a rivnut.

This is because of the crush factor in getting the rivnut rivetted and tight against the wall of the tubing even if aluminium rivnuts are used.

I know that normal rivets are used in fibreglass and other epoxy-resin filled materials, and on commercially produced CF frames, but I would fear (a) drilling the hole and (b) compressing the rivnet would damage the carbon fibres.

I would imagine the commercial frame builders using rivets to hold in place stops, etc, have taken these fittings into account when moulding the tubeset, rather than later drilling an ad hoc hole. That is, the lay-up of the CF strands is around those areas or the holes are moulded into the tube from the outset.

But I am open to correction.

http://www.frameforum.net/forum2/index.php?showtopic=834&hl=rivnuts

http://www.frameforum.net/forum2/index.php?showtopic=2556&hl=bottle+boss#

Mmmmmm... thanks for the links. I think they confirm it's not something for the unskilled to fiddle with.