Touring - Touring bike recommendations for LOADS

I've finally (and reluctantly) concluded that my 60cm Klein Navigator is just a touch too large for me. I'm shopping for a touring bike suitable for loaded touring that I can test ride before buying (no frame-only, build-it-yourself projects). Cost target not to exceed approximately $2K, but load capacity is of paramount concern.

I currently weigh 275, and since I like to ride with panniers AND like to ride dirt trails occasionally, I want 700c x 37mm tires. Any bike I buy will need to have lots of clearance for tires!

What makes and models do youse gals & guys suggest?

Waterford Adventure
http://www.waterfordbikes.com/site/designs/t.php

All Waterford bikes are custom, it will fit. I test rode an Adventure cycle once,
it will handle the load easily.

I recommend the Surly Karate Monkey.

http://www.surlybikes.com/karatemonkey.html

There are plenty of small workshop/custom bike makers (http://www.henryjames.com/blocator.html)in the US but it is tricky bringing this under $2k. You should probably be looking at stock design.
The Bruce Gordon BLT (http://www.bgcycles.com/blt.html)is a good benchmark for your style of tourer. It is built up pretty much as most experienced tourers would spec a bike.

See if you can find a new Koga Miyata near you. Not saying it's the only game in town but these bikes have plenty of world expeditions under their belts. For instance, take a look at http://www.downtheroad.org/ Tim is a big guy, they carry big loads and ride all kinds of roads.

Also check out the Cannondales to see if they'll take the tire size you're looking for. You should be able to test ride one of them.

Good luck and have fun looking.

I recommend the Surly Karate Monkey.

http://www.surlybikes.com/karatemonkey.html

Well, in that case, why not the Long Haul Trucker? But the OP wants to buy a complete bike, not a frame.

Does the Trek 520 have that kind of tire clearance? That might be a good one to look at.

Ummmm, have you thought of a Mtb? There are Lots of older Mt bikes with good ride geomerety that can be set up for touring at your LBS. this would keep the bike in your price range,give you the componets you want,and be strong as hell!
I toured on a 23"91 Miyata trailrunner for years,beat the crap out of it,overloaded it,rain,mud,sand,gravel,rocks,pavement,snow,kids,cats and the occasinal Volvo were just some of the things that it took in stride.
I'd still be riding it ,but some schmuck stole it three years ago,the bike I have now is nice (05 Novara Bonanza) but I miss the old school ride!

Burley makes at least two steel touring bikes that fit your parameters. The Vagabond comes with a rear rack, 105 components, and cantilever brakes. I think it retails for about $1600. I rode on the other day and I thought it was a superior bike. Two neighbors have put 1000s of miles on them and loved every mile. You should confirm that it can fit a 37+ mm tire.

I'll second the Burley suggestion if it fits.

26" wheels would be my choice for what you describe.

However the bike that just begs to be yours is the Comotion Americano. It's built to tandem specs in a 700 mm single touring bike, they have a good reputation for getting people the proper fit. Particularly people like yourself who already have some benchmark having had one or more frames. A test ride is probably not as accurate as a fitting since people can make mistakes and let circumstances influence them even when they are testing a bike.

If you really want local and cheaper, get a Canondale 800 and use your budget to upgrade from the base model, perhaps adding some serious racks or some beefed up components like a CNC front brake, or discs.

I went by the LBS today and they recommended either a Specialized Crossroads or a Hardrock MTB. Comments?

Also, nobody locally (or in the State, probably) sells Waterford, Surly, Cannondale, Koga, Burley, or Comotion. I'd for sure like to ride it before I buy it, so those (unfortunately) are probably out. The "other" bike shops in town sell Kona (some options there...), LeMond, Trek, and various other high-end racing bikes that aren't for me.

Well ... do you prefer flat bars over drop bars?

There is a long thread that discusses using a mountain bike for touring. So you can check that out to see whether the pros and cons are worth it. You will probably want to switch handlebars or add bar-ends to increase the number of hand positions. The aluminum frame can be uncomfortable over the long haul. Although my understanding is that some heavy riders appreciate aluminum's greater rigidity.

You will save a lot of money going with the Specialized hybrid/mountain bike. Although you would be getting lower quality components. If that is the price range you are more comfortable with and you want drop bars then perhaps you should be looking at the Bianchi Volpe or Fuji Tourer (~$800-900). Trek has a touring staple designated as the 520 (~$1200-1300). All three of these bikes have a following.

The Waterford and Comotion bike would be quite expensive. I have not looked at them in a while; but I think that they are about 25-50% more than the $2000 limit you mentioned earlier.

Is it really the case that there are no Cannondale dealers in LA? I am shocked. Perhaps you should take a trip to Houston for a bigger selection if a test ride is mandatory. Cannondale's T-series of touring bikes have a strong following as well. I noticed that there are several places with the 2005 models on sale.

Good luck.

I went by the LBS today and they recommended either a Specialized Crossroads or a Hardrock MTB. Comments?

Also, nobody locally (or in the State, probably) sells..... Surly

ask your local to let you see the QBP catalog (the one without the prices,) open it up. in the first 70 pages or so is the complete line of Surly frames, and gruppo packages preselected by QBP to be a good match to the frame....(you even get component choices) ... point at the Long Haul Trucker or the 26" frameset of your choice (karate monkey) and say,

" I want to order THAT."

I can't think of a bike shop that doesn't order from QBP, but an entire state could be filled with them, i guess. Around Seattle, at least 4 bike shops i know of have the LHT built up, but that isn't crucial, if you like drop bar bikes, it will treat you well as a touring bike.

also the Co-Motion Americano is excellent advice, the Burleys, too. but those ARE genuinely hard to source....a trip north to Oregon, perhaps?

a LBS that suggests a crossroads or a hardrock for loaded touring is blowing smoke up your nethers, my friend.

Probably the comotion is overbudget, but I have no idea how serious that item is. With a Klein and now looking for a 2K bike there may be some further resources. I still think that if you rode off on the wrong frame size once (and who hasn't ever had doubts on that score) then you are probably no less likely to get the right bike by a custom order than a test ride. Test rides rarely are perfect comparisons, like you have all the sizes and component mixes and brands you want to try, and you get all the time and realistic conditions to do them. And the main point is that the local bike shop will always present you with a choice between differnt off the rack options, in the end none may be much of a fit.

For instance my recent touring off the rack bike was set up as a fixed gear when I test rode it, and it had great standard geometry that doesn't fit me. It's a good bike that I could ride for ever, but I'm going custom since i can.

the Co-Motion americano is a SERIOUSLY built ride for the cyldesdale out there.... they use a heavier gauge tubing, used in their tandems, STOUT rim and hub choices spun into high spoke count wheels....i forget if they are full custom or partial off the shelf; i think the latter.....

A great set of sturdy wheels is perhaps THE most important componentry on the bike. These are the crucial elements, i believe. Before even deciding on a bike or frame the OP could get a set of 36f/48r Phil Wood hubs built up on the 135-100 spacings to Sun Rhinolites, Velocity Dyads, or Mavic 717ers, and have the half of the bike build in the bag.

most any off the shelf bike you buy, if you buy a not completely custom specced bike, will need a new, better set of touring wheels, in my opinion. even the Trek 520 comes with a lameish wheelset.....

do they have to be 700C wheels?? why not consider 26" wheels ...
try looking at tom teesdale (http://www.tetcycles.com/Frames/Mountain/MT_Touring/mt_touring.html) and also a thorn nomad (http://www.thorncycles.co.uk/nomad.html), which are heavily discounted right now ...

Co-Motion are great bikes but logistically may be difficult (Oregon), and they are pricey ($3K or so?).

I second the vote for a Surly Long Haul Trucker, if you can get one built up by a good LBS.

Another excellent rig for you would be a Cannondale T2000, which has a very strong frame for heavier riders. The T2000 also comes with excellent wheels and components, and will handle large tires.

The LHT and T2000 are both outstanding tour-ready rigs, reasonably priced and warrant a serious look, even if you have to travel some distance to try one out. I would not buy any bike without a test ride and proper fit.

In many cases, I'd agree with youse guys about the low value of a test ride. In my specific case, however, I've got the "what I want" dialed in to such a degree that I can probably make one or two in-flight adjustments and be able to tell "yes" or "no." My criterion is simple - If I can comfortably ride the bike with my hands an inch above the handlebars with only the slightest of tension in my lower back, then the bike fits. Otherwise, not.

Having been down that road more than twice, I absolutely refuse to buy another bike mail order, regardless of how suitable the design or how attractive the price. I WANT TO RIDE IT FIRST!

I've lots of experience swapping drop bars for flats, so that issue isn't a deal breaker. I've also got a deep enough spare parts box that component quality isn't much of an issue either. For me, it all comes back to whether or not the frame fits. FIT IS KING!

Thanks for the replies and sage advice. I'll post photos when I choose.

Regarding your fit, if you ride a bike now and know what position you like, measure it. You can then figure out if you can transfer the points of contact (POC) to another frame. You dont need an exact match in geometry to duplicate POCs since you have some sdjustablity with seatpost layback and stem length.
I measure in [x,y] using the bottom brackert as [0,0]. A pumb line and some tape to mark the top tube are handy.

Regarding your fit, if you ride a bike now and know what position you like, measure it...

You're right, MichaelW - this is a great strategy. Unfortunately, I got stupid & sold the bike that fit me before I measured it! Now I'm back to square one.

if you cannot test ride what you want, go get a diagnosis fit-forgot the actual name, no bike required - at a bike shop, that will cost some lucre, but will give you your ideal frame sizes for the riding position you want, etc.....

Also, go get a set of custom wheels spun up (you're going to want to replace any wheelset that comes on a stock, sub 2,000 dollar bike unless it is extremely special....)

and start taking trips out of state to try out bikes on test rides, if you cannot find a bike shop in the greater LA basin/ SoCal that has bikes suitable for your needs..... there are Long Haul Truckers available for test rides all around Seattle......

if you cannot test ride what you want, go get a diagnosis fit...Also, go get a set of custom wheels...and start taking trips out of state to try out bikes on test rides...

Thanks, Bekologist - good suggestions all.

My LBS fits for best efficiency - not best comfort (which is what I desire). Their "fit" on my current frame might have been the best for racing efficiency, but it left me aching after a mere 20 miles. Fortunately, being a valued customer, they charged me only a minimal amount for their efforts.

I've already had Rev. Chuck make me some 36-spoke, three-cross wheels with Velocity Dyad rims for my 37mm tires. These should be fine for any 700c frame that has adequate clearance for them.

I do travel out of town frequently, so I'll start test riding more and visiting less when I'm in strange shops.

Thanks again for the feedback.

...sounds like you are well on your way to that next touring bike!

At 270 lbs I would think that you'd need a custom bike but I just looked at the specs on that Waterford and I wouldn't hesitate to use that.

Burley's Hudson is their heavier tourer, and a decent value with a lot of good components. Co-Motion's Americano is an excellent bike, plenty heavy-duty with a 145mm rear dropout width to accommodate a tandem undished rear wheel, but over the budget you stated, though. Urbane Cyclist in Toronto has some very interesting shop brand cycles that might meet your needs.

The Rivendell Atlantis is a heavy touring design, and could carry you with your loads without problems. With a decent build, though, it's over your limit unless you can find one used.

I think the best bang for the buck, built up, is the Burley. If you want to do the build from ordered parts, then the Surly LHT is also good.

The local shop also recommended a Specialized TriCross or a Bianchi Volpe. A second shop I visited recommended a Trek X1. Since these can be found in town and ridden before purchase, any yeas or nays on these models? I'd obviously have to take MY wheels with MY 37mm tires in to see if the frames would have adequate clearance, but assuming that all pass that test...

The local shop also recommended a Specialized TriCross or a Bianchi Volpe. A second shop I visited recommended a Trek X1. Since these can be found in town and ridden before purchase, any yeas or nays on these models? I'd obviously have to take MY wheels with MY 37mm tires in to see if the frames would have adequate clearance, but assuming that all pass that test...

Those are all decent basic bikes. I would suggest something a little beefier like
the Burley Vagabond, Waterford Adventure, or perhaps one of the Cannondale touring bikes if they have good wheels. All of the ones I mentioned are serious touring bikes made to take a serious load.

If they are suggesting the Trek X1, why in the world aren't they suggesting the trek 520?

i've got some bigadze 37 tires on mine by just a little file work on the base of the steerer tube.


the Trek 520, NOT the X1. what a bunch of smoke blowers. they want to sell you whats in hand.

Re Cannondale T800: beefy, solid, BUT has some toe overlap at the front (on M and L frames, not sure about larger) which makes me reluctant to ride it off-road. If this is not an issue, make sure you test ride one - they are widely available, shouldn't be hard to find a bike shop with one in stock.

If you already have some wheels then you might as well get something like an lht frame. You can pick one up for 350, and even if in the end it doesn't work, you can get back started for a lot less, maybe that time you could get a custom frame or something.

...they want to sell you whats in hand.

YES, Beckologist - you are exactly correct. It is coming up on Fall, and even though "riding season" is year-round here, the bulk of bike purchases are Spring and Summer ones. Also, the 2007 models are due out soon, and the shop is eager to rid themselves of the '06 models ASAP.

I looked at the Trek site & saw what you're talking about. It looks like a better choice. The sales kid, however, may just have been ignorant of that model, never having seen one - I'm willing to give him the benefit of the doubt.

Again, though, I run up against: The shop isn't going to order a specific model, in a specific size without a buying committment. I'm unwilling to make such a committment until AFTER I've had a test ride. Catch 22!

At least I know that there are other options... Thanks for the feedback.

I owned a 2003 Volpe. It was a nice bike but for heavy loads, no way. As nice as it was commuting and riding around, the frame felt a bit wiggly with a moderate load. I suspect a heavy load would vibrate it like a tuning fork. Maybe things are different now that they've gone from Reynolds 525 to Bianchi mystery metal.

There have been few changes to the Volpe model since 2003. But my experience with the bike is more positive than halfspeed (I had an older model). Then again, even with another 30-40 pounds of stuff (which is about all that I carry on my light tours) I still weigh much less than your 270 pounds.

The Specialized Tricross has a carbon fiber fork, if I am not mistaken. Probably a very bad choice for a 270 pound dude going on tours with some off-road riding.

Since you already have sturdy wheels for whatever you purchase (which rule out the mountain bikes and any other bike with non-700 wheels), I personally think that you can't go wrong with any steel framed bike with a touring geometry. Some bikes will have a better mix of components than others. But again, you mentioned that you have a good set of components to upgrade here and there.

Given your spending limit of $2000 and the desire to test ride, there *has* to be a relatively local shop that has the following:

Cannondale T-series (aluminum but a quality company)
Fuji Tourer
Bianchi Volpe (you already test rode the bike)
Trek 520

All of them are popular brands carried by bike shops all over the place. If you want something a little more special and are willing to travel to test ride, then look for the Burley or a shop with a Surly Long Haul Trucker already built.

Perhaps the best strategy would be to find a group of "old-timers" in the area and discover what shops they recommend. Here in DC, without hesitation, I would send you to the Plum Grove Cyclery out in Leesburg. The owner is an expert in bike fit and has a lot of models in the shop. They could fit you to a bike in the shop and then find something that matches the geometry and ergonomics but more suited for touring for under $2000.

Good luck.

Oh, one more thing, I recall that the Cannondales come with tires 37 mm wide. So they have a pretty good chance of fitting your wheels.

Just out of curiosity, why haven't you just bought a Surley Long Haul Trucker? It isn't as if that's an unknown bike here.

Just out of curiosity, why haven't you just bought a Surley Long Haul Trucker? It isn't as if that's an unknown bike here.

The Surley is a well-known, and well-respected touring bike. Unfortunately, nobody here carries it. I want to RIDE IT BEFORE I BUY IT! I've bought too many bikes that looked good on paper (or the screen) but didn't fit, didn't feel right, or didn't work with my wheels.

Local dealers stock Trek and Bianchi, but NOT the touring models. I can't ask them to special-order a touring model in my size, test ride it, and then say "no thanks." So let's set the criteria one more time: I WON'T BUY IT UNLESS I CAN TEST RIDE IT FIRST! That pretty much rules out the Surley, the Cannondale, the Trek touring model, the Bianchi touring model, and anything else that isn't commonly on the LBSs' showroom floors.

Options that I ran into locally DO include some NOS models from the early '70s including:

MASA 15-speed, Raleigh Reliant 10-speed, Raleigh Gran Sport 10-speed, Panasonic Sport Deluxe, Raleigh Grand Prix, and Raleigh Super Sport. Any of those steel-frame antiques suitable for touring with 37mm tires?

The Surley is a well-known, and well-respected touring bike. Unfortunately, nobody here carries it. I want to RIDE IT BEFORE I BUY IT! I've bought too many bikes that looked good on paper (or the screen) but didn't fit, didn't feel right, or didn't work with my wheels.

Local dealers stock Trek and Bianchi, but NOT the touring models. I can't ask them to special-order a touring model in my size, test ride it, and then say "no thanks." So let's set the criteria one more time: I WON'T BUY IT UNLESS I CAN TEST RIDE IT FIRST! That pretty much rules out the Surley, the Cannondale, the Trek touring model, the Bianchi touring model, and anything else that isn't commonly on the LBSs' showroom floors.

Options that I ran into locally DO include some NOS models from the early '70s including:

MASA 15-speed, Raleigh Reliant 10-speed, Raleigh Gran Sport 10-speed, Panasonic Sport Deluxe, Raleigh Grand Prix, and Raleigh Super Sport. Any of those steel-frame antiques suitable for touring with 37mm tires?

I don't think there's a solution in a new bike. You need a purpose built tourer but all you've got are road, cross and mountain bikes available to ride. Road and cross bikes aren't going to be solid enough for what you want and mountain bikes won't fit your wheels.

So, you've either got to be willing to take some road trips or buy used.

Used, look for a Miyata 1000 (or even one of their lesser touring models would be great), Specialized Expedition or a Trek 620 or 720. Skip the 80's 520s. They were entry level in the Trek touring line and tend to be overpriced. Then, get to work with your parts bin. You can take out ads in your local swap paper and Craig's list. Hit garage sales and flea markets as well. It'll take some time, but something will eventually come up.

--edit--

Being in Louisianna you'll need to take special care that any vintage steel didn't sit under flood waters for weeks.

I don't think there's a solution in a new bike...and mountain bikes won't fit your wheels...It'll take some time, but something will eventually come up...

I'm beginning to think you're right, halfspeed. One thing I forgot to mention - in addition to my custom-built 700c heavy-duty wheelset, I also have a brand new set of 26" Shimano MTB wheels ALSO with 36-spokes and heavy rims! This makes a wider variety of bikes possible.

Any thoughts on converting those NOS 70's steel models I mentioned? The Gran Prix models were made of Reynolds 531 and are still new-in-the-box... The Panasonics were non-butted chrome-molly, but VERY sturdy (as were the C-Itohs and the MASAs). How feasible is it to change from 27" wheels to 700c?

I'm beginning to think you're right, halfspeed. One thing I forgot to mention - in addition to my custom-built 700c heavy-duty wheelset, I also have a brand new set of 26" Shimano MTB wheels ALSO with 36-spokes and heavy rims! This makes a wider variety of bikes possible.

Any thoughts on converting those NOS 70's steel models I mentioned? The Gran Prix models were made of Reynolds 531 and are still new-in-the-box... The Panasonics were non-butted chrome-molly, but VERY sturdy (as were the C-Itohs and the MASAs). How feasible is it to change from 27" wheels to 700c?

I'm not familiar enough with those models to say. You might want to ask the C&V folks.

Changing from 27" to 700C is often, but not always possible. If the brake pads have 4mm of downward adjustment, it's a definite 'go'. Otherwise, you have to start looking at things like drop bolts. (Search Sheldon's site for information on them including a homebrew solution.) This brings me to a caveat in using old road bikes for touring. A lot of those old DiaComp brakes don't have the greatest stopping power. I wouldn't trust them to stop me with a full load. Better to look for cantis. Also, they often are very short on braze-ons. (My '77 Trek road bike doesn't even have bottle cage mounts, cable stops or guides or shifter bosses.) On the plus size, tire clearance and frame durability are pretty good.

If you've got 26" wheels, I'd look for a mid-90's mountain bike from Trek or Specialized.

I'm not familiar enough with those models to say. You might want to ask the C&V folks....A lot of those old DiaComp brakes don't have the greatest stopping power...On the plus size, tire clearance and frame durability are pretty good...If you've got 26" wheels, I'd look for a mid-90's mountain bike from Trek or Specialized.

Thanks again for the good suggestions, half! Since I've got a variety of LONG and regular-reach brakes in my spare parts box, the DiaComps aren't an issue. Tire clearance & frame durability are worth having, though. My MTB shopping will probably be at garage sales.

Given how limited the selection in your area is and how important your test ride criteria are to you I would recommend you plan a trip to the nearest large centre and test ride some of the suggestions in this thread.

I think it would be a huge mistake to buy something local that fits okay, but doesn't perform as you would like with a load. If you do decide to go the local route I would bring a set of panniers and racks with you to the store along with your wheels. Test ride the bike fully loaded.

Alternatively go test ride what you have available locally and when you find a good fit measure it. Then you can just order up one of the touring bikes mentioned here based on those measurements.

Good luck with your search.

Just ran across a short review from the 2005 Bike Show concerning bikes for large folks:

CO-MOTION MAZAMA bike
Here's the first bicycle to seriously address a growing trend in the U.S. -- more people weighing 300+ pounds The Co-Motion Mazama: In effect, it's a tandem built for one rider. Everything about it is tandem strength, including the tubing and wheels, from a company renowned for making great twofers.
The Mazama is hybrid style with a compact frame that's easy to get a leg over. A short top tube and tall stem provide a comfortable reach. Disc brakes front and rear make sure momentum doesn't rule the day on downhills. "I wouldn't be afraid to see a 500-pounder on this bike," says Co-Motion headman Dwan Shepard. No, the Mazama isn't cheap at $2,895. http://www.co-motion.com