Fifty Plus (50+) - Bicycle GPS System?

Is such a thing available? If so, what would you recommend and what might I expect to pay?

Lately, I have been taking longer and longer rides to/through increasingly less familiar territory. Sometimes I like getting "lost" as long as I don't actually get lost - something I've done a time or two - not so lost that I was in danger of never finding my way home, but, turned around enough that I didn't know whether to turn this or that way.

On a bike, each wrong 'that way' can cost you tons of time if each wrong turn take you 3 or 4 miles to determine that you should have gone the opposite way.

It's not a pressing issue, but a GPS unit would be a neat and fun toy.

Caruso

Not sure if this is what you are looking for, but I read a lot about it on various threads here in BF.

Garmin Edge 305 http://www.garmin.com/products/edge305/

They (Garmin) also make an Edge 205 that comes without heart rate monitor or cadence. The 205 is quite a bit cheaper than the 305. They don't have mapping features but they will give you a virtual bread trail to follow your way back home or the have a "find" feature that will point towards you home (or starting point) and tell you how far away you are.
I've got the 205 and love it. It gives you more info that you can believe. Such as:
speed
average speed
max speed
heading
distance traveled
time of day
time of ride
% Grade
elevation
sunrise
sunset
distace to finish

It also has a virtual training partner that you can "race" against, or pace yourself.

Pretty cool little units ....

They (Garmin) also make an Edge 205 that comes without heart rate monitor or cadence. The 205 is quite a bit cheaper than the 305. They don't have mapping features but they will give you a virtual bread trail to follow your way back home or the have a "find" feature that will point towards you home (or starting point) and tell you how far away you are.
I've got the 205 and love it. It gives you more info that you can believe. Such as:
speed
average speed
max speed
heading
distance traveled
time of day
time of ride
% Grade
elevation
sunrise
sunset
distace to finish

It also has a virtual training partner that you can "race" against, or pace yourself.

Pretty cool little units ....
So, it gives % Grade? Is that an ever changing number like mph? Just curious how it is displayed or if it is given as a readout after a ride.

Cycling Plus (a British magazine) just did a review of GPS systems and concluded that no current system was really very well designed for cycling. They also indicated that they thought it wouldn't be long (1 or 2 years) before that changes.

Edit 1-8-07 Got my first personal view of the Garmin 305..... Cycling Plus was wrong. This thing is pretty cool.

I have the Edge 305 and you can set your starting point and it will tell you what direction to get back or you can bactrack your course but their is no mapping software. It is a great cyclometer with a lot of features but I also have the Garmin Etrex Legend http://www.garmin.com/products/etrexLegendcx/
which sounds more suited for what you are looking for. You can put in your starting point, drive 50 miles, get lost and then tell it to route you back and it will give you turn by turn directions. You can get the bike clamp and it runs on AA batteries and gets decent battery life. It will give you basic functions like speed distance time and that type of info. If you need mapping software then this unit is pretty good and durable.
If you want a nice cyclometer that you can use to give you the general direction you need to go then the Edge 305 is one of the best out there.
Kenal0

So, it gives % Grade? Is that an ever changing number like mph? Just curious how it is displayed or if it is given as a readout after a ride.
Yup, it changes all the time like your speed, but it's kind of a fun feature. At the end of a ride you download all the info into your compuer and it shows grade on a graph..... if you want.

If I'm not mistaken you can get handlebar mounts for almost any Garmin unit and the units start around $100. The 205 can be found for $200-250.

I think I would find that more informative than gps...either that or disconcerting that my hills shouldn't be as hard as they are.

My personal thought was to go with a true GPS like the Garmin GPS Map 60 CSx It could help when you're lost, and also give you map data. It doesn't have the cycling specific functions, but it could also be useful in the car as well.

From my limited understanding, the bicycle related "gps" systems are good as cyclocomputers and recording rides, but not good for keeping you from getting lost. I don't think they can display a map or directions...

Garmin does sell a bicycle mount for several of their units including the GPS Map 60 series.

What's wrong with a good old-fashioned paper map? I have a basic GPS that leaves a crumb trail (no mapping), and I use it sometimes on mountain bike rides, but for road stuff, AAA maps are hard to beat. You get them free if you're a member, and the regional maps show a lot of detail without being too clumsy. The one I'm looking at, Central California, covers from Reno-Tahoe to the coast and from roughly Chico in the north to Monterey in the south. Larger scale city maps are available, but these show nearly all the secondary and tertiary roads between the cities. I've used them for years.

I use a Garmin venture CX. It has a moving map and a nice clear screen. I get speed and distance info as well as being anle to load routes from my computer and rides into my computer. I use it for road riding (speed and distance), off road riding (I have loaded topo maps nto it), city riding (I have city guides) and as a GPS in my car. Its great and the handlebar mount kits are perfect.
Cycling Plus is the best bike magazine going and I don't know why they left this model out of their testing (maybe they didn't want to do two models from one mfg.).

If I use one at all I use the Garmin Etrex. But being the retrogrouch that I am I usually take a paper map of the area I am going to be riding in. Besides it is a good conversation starter...take the map and walk up to somebody...when I was younger I met some cute women that way;) :p

Aaron:)

They also indicated that they thought it wouldn't be long (1 or 2 years) before that changes.

"Long" depends upon your point of view.

Caruso

What's wrong with a good old-fashioned paper map?

Nothing - except I cannot consult a paper map while riding, and I definitely cannot see it at night. That's why I'm interested in some sort of GPS system.

Thanks for all the replies. Looks as though some useful units already exist. For a few hundred dollars, I'll probably spring for one of them and move on to something better when it comes out.

Caruso

$190- scroll down to picture of Garmin 205 (http://www.shop.com/op/~Garmin_EDGE_205_Training_Device_for_Cyclists-prod-27243687?buy=9)

The garmin Edge and is a training tool for analyzing your ride after the fact and defining training programs and courses to follow. It can guide you if you have done the course before and recorded it. You can also create courses using various tools but if you really want to on the fly navigation a different device would be better. Here is some of the things you can do with the edge and SportTracks software.

I can also highlight an area in the graph and see the corresponding place on the map that matches the data

I use an E-Trex Legend, very usefull, cycle or car. You can load maps, route & waypoints. They have a $30.00 rebate going on now and you can find a bundle with car mounts and map software.

For what you describe I would definitely go with a moving map display unit. I've been using an older Magellan unit for several years and like it. But I'm about to upgrade to color display, USB connectivity and memory card expansion. I have most of the software for Magellan units but am a little frustrated with creating and uploading routes that mirror the yearly ride across Wisc (new route every year). I considered the Magellan Explorist 500 (I prefer discardable batteries to rechargables), but I'm thinking I might like the routing capabilities in the SW for the Garmin Etrex color series.

Garmin 60CS is what I use in my car, my bicycle and when hiking. Its an awesome hand held gps mapping unit. I used a Garmin Vista before that but the battery life was terrible, the screen difficult to read in bright light, and it often lost satellite reception in heavy tree cover, or around cliffs. That said I just bought an edge 305, and love it for what it is, a training device and bike computer that uses GPS technology for speed and course calculations. But if you want a GPS for mapping and routing I love my GPS 60Cs.

The GPS has been a good training device for me as it is tracking my speeds on the various terrains. I have theForeRunner 205 and have found it very beneficial.

I check out my route before I start; and take the attitude that I get lost; I get more exercise and more time enjoying the riding. Then I might come back and check out the change in performance while I am chyecking out the new areas that I am enjoying.

So I use my GPS as a training device rahter than mapping software

Very pleased with the Magellan Explorist 600....I get about 18 hrs of use before having to recharge....have downloaded map of all of Florida from computer and all waypoints/notes, etc. for planned Nov 6 credit card tour from Ft Myers/Cape Coral to Daughter's in Jacksonville,FL......Ft Myers to Ft Pierce, then Adventure Cycling's route up A1A to Jacksonville...440 mi +/-...
Magellan's use of SDI card overshadowed the negative of a proprietary battery...for me at least.....

If you get a Gramin 205 be aware that the % grade function is not reliable. Older GPS units are notorious for the elevation bouncing around a lot and this makes the % grade function shall we say "highly variable" and IMO not a good way to determine true % grade, espcially over short distances.

Using a GPS has many advantages over a paper map:

No unfolding/folding of map enroute
It knows where you are and can show you if you are approaching or missed a turn.:)
You can zoom in to have higher detail or out for the bigger picture
It can record where you've been automatically in case you want to backtrack or use that trail again
Performs trip computer functions
Maps lie! trails, roads are offset from actual locations on maps for visual separation. This isn't required for GPS mapping.
Your trip can be shared and viewed with satellite photography backdrop Cool!
Google Earth provides this capability.
You can see a great example of trail sharing by visiting the GPSmapping tab of trailcentral.com (http://trailcentral.com)
My website GPS biking Denver (home.earthlink.net/~gps_dr) has over 700 miles of mapped Denver metro bicycle trails (source of many trails on trailcentral.com).

GPS selection:
Color allows for quicker identification of map features.
A lot easier to determine if a line is a track, river, road etc
Garmin color units have better battery life than their grayscale units (or most competitors units)
Sunlight readable display!
Some color units are virtually useless in changing light conditions.
(for non-mounted uses, this is less critical)
Garmin wins this category easily
Some grayscale displays are also easier to read than others
Larger screens can provide better map item separation, reducing eye time away from path
e.g. Garmin 76 or 60 series, Magellan Explorist XL or Lowrance iFinder series.
Multiple tracklog capability to allow displaying trail networks
Most newer units provide this, but beware of non-Explorist series Magellans
USB connectivity allows data to be shared on newer computers
Most older units use serial data transfer protocol that is slower and requires an adapter to work with many newer computers.
Some GPSs don't provide for any data transfer capability
Expandable memory (not strictly needed, but nice)
e.g. Garmin CX models, Magellan explorist 400, 500, 600 & XL, Lowrance iFinders
Vendor support
Garmin shines here too!
They are #1 in consumer GPS sales for a reason
Software & firmware fixes and enhancements flow freely and documented
They have a variety of products to meet user needs
Magellan (AKA Thales Navigation) was recently sold from it's parent company. There are hopes (and my recent experience) that they will become more responsive.
Ease of use
Newer models have improved user interfaces as well as functionality
Dedicated buttons simplify operations
Softare - for all practical purposes, only a GPS vendor's mapping software can be loaded onto a GPS.
Lowrance & Magellan topo software provide 50' elevation contours. (Garmin provides this in their "National Parks" & "Canada Topo" products.) I expect Garmin to come out with something with better topo contours outside the national parks, there is money in it for them.
The Garmin MapSource software also allows viewing your data via Google Earth.

I own 2 Garmin & a Lowrance iFinder series GPS (all grayscale) and sell Garmin, Lowrance, Magellan & Cobra GPS where I work.
The Garmin GPSmap 76 CSX is on the top of my GPS wishlist
For hunting/hiking, i prefer the Lowrance Expedition C
If you want small, try the Gamin eTrex Venture CX
The Magellan Explorist 500, 600 & XL are very easy to use
Happy GPS biking

Here's what I did for "on the cheap" GPS just for emergencies, especially since I tour long distance at night. I take a paper map anyway, but I just upgraded my cell phone to a Motorola RAZR, which is small and light and has GPS mapping capability that can be accessed under my cell phone plan on an individual instance or by monthly subscription. Under my plan it costs $4 a day (individually) or $9 per month for a subscription. So I figure if I'm ready to bonk, lost at night, it's starting to rain, and I REALLY don't want to be lost, $4 get's me un-lost. - and I like the idea of having GPS if I ever have to call 9-1-1. To date I haven't had to use either capability, but I take my cell phone with me for safety sake, and it only costed $69 for the RAZR when I renewed my plan. Other brands of cell phones are adding this capability as well.

I second paper maps. Paper maps make finding routes that likely have less traffic easy. You can find parks point of interest that a 1" screen would hide. My guess is that 1 gps costs the same as 30+ maps. I bet paper maps weigh less too.

A GPS will tell you where you are instantly, a paper map would require a bit of thinking.

My Garmin Map60CS makes finding an alternate route easy as well. Before leaving I load in the local mapsets for the area I plan on traveling in. A few weeks back I went to New Paltz NY to try a rail trail. We found the trail very boring. Used the maps on the GPS to get us back to our start via local roads. I had a paper map from a local toursit guide, but it didn't have the detail of the maps on my GPS, nor did it show my location on the map as I rode.

"local toursit guide" Go to a gas station and buy a road map. You would be surprised at what the amount of information a 30" static paper screen has vs a 1" dynamic active matrix screen has.

A GPS will tell you where you are instantly, a paper map would require a bit of thinking.

Also add to that the fact that you could be wrong too and send yourself in the wrong direction. When the wife and I go out, she has a Garmin forerunner attached to her bike and i have the paper maps. paper maps are also could if you want to connect to another trail that probably won't show up on the GPS map. also paper maps are great when the gps battery dies, or for some reason, known or not, it can't reach it's satellite. however, if you take many wrong turns and get totally lost, the GPS helps a lot more than the map.

I am revisiting this subject (almost had forgotten about GPS units) since the Mrs. and the kidlums (more lum than kids these days) gave me an Etrex Vista CX for Christmas.

They somehow got the impression that the bike mount was included in the base package, so I haven't used it on the bike yet, but have had a lot of fun learning to use it in the car (while someone else does the driving).

Looks like it will work out fine for my biking adventures. I'm anxious to get out and get lost on roads I would not normally bother with.

I was really not much into paper maps, geo8rge, especially on a bike. If they work for you, that's great. FWIW, the zoom function on the Garmin unit allows you to back out and see a more general view of the area or to zoom in and see a closer view of the detail around your position.

In my "package" was a smaller package containing Mapsource City Navigator North America, so, I can either use the unit/software to track actual rides, or sit in the house and plot rides in points I may never visit during this "trip through."

Very much looking forward to getting my new toy tethered to the "beast" so I can give both (and me) a real work out.

I like the feature that allows you to plot a route, then, ignore the unit until it beeps to warn you of an upcoming turn.

If for some reason you miss the turn or decide on an alternate route, it will recalculate from your "off-route" location to re-route you over an alternate course to your destination. Pretty cool, I think.

Caruso

Caru,

I've had the Vista since August or so and have really enjoyed it both on the bike(s), and in the car and motorcycle.

On the bikes we use it for tracking the routes and the usual navigation in the car or motorcycle. It's small enough to fit on the handlebars but functional as the bigger units in the car.

The display is great in the sun and the battery life is phenomenal (20-30 hours). I use rechargable NiMhs and have found to ALWAYS replace before a ride.

You can then load the track back to the pc and see the profile, map it, or other features like gpsvisualizer.com and Goggle Earth. It's fun to 'fly' over your latest century with Google Earth.

There have been a lot of GPS threads around here lately. I'm not complaining at all. I like GPS threads. A lot. Much if not all of the imformation has been covered in previous posts. It's always a good idea to repeat them. Repetition is the mother of learning.

I like my Garmin 305. You can go to a mapping program (I use CourseCreator2), outline a course, download it to your Garmin, so It'll point the way. I take the cue sheets on rides that look interesting, and using the Garmin I just take off. It's pretty cool. It would be cooler if the Garmin 305 had a true mapping function built in. It doesn't. I bet the Garmin 405 will. It'll cost a million dollars.

I then upload my rides to Motionbased. It lets me keep track of my times and progress. It also lets me review other people's rides, which is really really cool when they live in Koala Lampur.

Dennis/Weak:
I plan on using my GPS unit in the same manner as you describe. One question . . . I was looking at Google Map - will I need to pay for a subscription to look at the routes I generate as I'm out riding? I have played around with Google Map, but have yet to invest in a subscription because, until now, I could see no practical application that pertained to me.

We have already had a lot of fun using the Vista CX to "find" a couple of movie theaters, the Kimmel Center (my son played in one of those "Salute to Vienna" holiday concerts there - music was just alright, singing was pretty bad) in Philadelphia, Lees Hoagies in Southampton. It's pretty clear that the thing can be very useful. I have a project meeting in Harrisburg in the morning. Have plugged in the address and already know how to go. I'm certain this is nothing special in GPS units, but it is really cool to set the thing and depend upon it to beep a couple of times in advance of where you need to change course - you don't have to sit and watch it. I am especially looking forward to using it for some of my night rides. I could never get my cyclo-computer to light brightly enough at night that I could actually tell how fast or far I had ridden without stopping and shining a light (really tough to find your moving speed when you have to stop to read the speedo!!). I know that a GPS will not be quite as accurate at instantaneous speed readings, but, at least that screen will come on nice and bright when yo press the button.

I bet I have some 20 hours of use on my original set of AA Alkaline batteries and the power icon has lost just one segment so far.

I didn't need this thing at all, but it's fun to have just the same.

Caruso

You don't need to pay for anything I don't think. I sent Brad Culberson some money for his mapping site, although that was voluntary. I got a subscription to MotionBased, but really don't need one to use most of the features. Don't know about Google maps, but don't need to use it, either.

while I carry a Silva navigator (http://audiovisual.kelkoo.co.uk/b/a/ps_9293592/100278823.html) for GPS info, lat and long, and elevation,etc, it does not have mapping, so I also carry paper maps, usually pages torn out out of a cheap road map.
or free maps from tourist information offices.

Both together they work for me.

george

Any major differences between the Garmin Vista CX and the Garmin Venture CX? Aside from the price?

Foolish heart:
You could check it out in detail here: http://www.garmin.com/products/etrexVenturecx/. Looks to me as though the two key differences are that the Vista includes an altimeter and has a USB port so that you can download maps, waypoints, tracks, etc. from your computer. I make those assumptions from reading the bullet points at the above site. I am still exploring my Vista. You can set it to optimize routes for specific vehicle types: Bus, Car, BIKE, and to avoid toll roads, etc.

I received the bike mount this week, and have mounted the unit on my bike. Went out yesterday to test it out. Worked like a charm - and, because you don't need to illuminate the screen during the daytime, I am certain there is an insignificant drain on the batteries.

I took a 10-mile ride after dark last night just to see how convenient it would be after sunset. Again, it works fine, and you can set the degree of brightness for the display to very low or through several increasing steps to very bright. You can set the illumination to go off after a certain time interval, or to be constantly on. I like the dim, constantly on setting so that after I turn it on, I never have to touch the unit while riding to see my progress, estimating speed, heading, etc.

It's a very nice unit.

Caruso

Venture CX is a Legend CX w/o Mini USB cable & included memory card, different color.

The Vista has electronic compass & barometer/altimeter the other 2 don't have.
Electronic compasses aren't all that accurate and must be level. Barometric elevation varies as the weather changes. Both must be calibrated.

The mapsource software is a good investment for the etrex vista. You can install more detailed maps than the factory default ones. Also creating routes is easier on my computer than trying to do it on the fly on the GPS. I use the mapsource metroguide and topo.

Venture CX is a Legend CX w/o Mini USB cable & included memory card, different color.



I apologize for the ignorance, gps_dr. But for that minimal difference, the price difference is quite considerable. Am I correct to assume that I can buy the Venture Cx and just get a mini USB cable and a memory card on my own, save some money in the process, and eventually have a set-up like the Venture Cx? Or can I even go one step further and get a 128 MB card instead of the 32 or 64 MB card that's packaged with the Legend Cx?

And while I'm at it, do I gather correctly that both the Venture Cx and the Legend Cx come with a bike clip?

Garmin uses a standard mini usb connector that you may already have from a camera.
$14 for Garmin Cable. I bought a 1GB Micro SD (SanDisk) for $35 after rebate locally. If you buy the Micro SD seperately, they come with a SD card carrier you can use to plug into the PC for map transfer. Don't waste money on a hi-speed card (They tend to have problems with GPS units).

For Biking Use, I don't see a big benefit with the vista. If you are into stats, the barometric altimeter on the Vista will show more accurate elevation changes in you active track log than the others.

The color etrex models come with the clip that attaches to the battery cover that latches into the rail mount. You still need to get/have the rail mount portion.

If you are near a Sportsmans Warehouse, they have the Venture CX for $220 during January (at least the mountain region's ad).

If you'ld like to see what can be done with a Garmin GPS on a bike -----
Visit http://geobiking.org/Maps.aspx

About 850 miles of bike trails viewable via satellite imagery (on PC) that you can upload into your GPS & follow.

Thanks for the heads up, gps_dr.

You can also get preloaded SD cards they have extra map details and travel info (hotels/resturants etc.) which is great for trips to foreign countries.