Car free with baby?

[Lieren]

Can anyone share their tips & tricks for living car-free with a baby? I'm ready to get rid of our household's only car - I've put only 306 miles on it since January 1 (my husband refuses to learn standard shift so I do all the family driving) and with the exception of the trip to have it inspected, could have done all of those trips by foot, bike, transit, or car-share with a little planning.

But, we're expecting our first child in October and everyone thinks we're insane to get rid of the car, which is making me waver. It's a great car, bought used so it's fully paid for, and it is nice to have it when we want it. On the "get rid of the car" side of the equation, we both bike to work (and I get free transit passes through my work for when I don't bike), there are four car-share cars within four blocks, three grocery stores within walking distance (one of which gives you and your groceries a free ride home), and someone is giving us a burley trailer as a baby present. Daycare is three blocks away. The pediatrician is just a few transit stops away. On the "keep the car" side, there's convenience and what currently seems like overwhelming societal pressure.

So, somebody, give me a little push! Tell me how easy it is!

[CommuterRun]

Here's my suggestion, take it for what it's worth to you and if you decide to discard it, so be it.

The car is paid for, so it's not costing anything in that respect and will be a whole lot cheaper than buying another car later. Keep up the maintenance on it to where it's driveable at any time, but store it. If it's not being driven, maintenance costs should be minimal. Check with your insurance company about a reduction in rates for a car you own and don't drive, but keep it covered. Add a fuel stabilizer and run the car before storing it. Don't loose the keys.

Keeping the insurance, registration, your DL and maintenance up to date could save you a lot of headaches later. Also if you go three years without auto insurance and then try to get it, you start all over as a new driver in the eyes of the insurance industry, with new driver rates. I just went through all this last year when I came back from three years when the military had me stationed outside the U.S., even though I had continous coverage in Okinawa the entire time on two cars.

Some people do successfully live car-free with a family, but since you already have the car and it's paid for, you're already set up for a "Plan B" scenario.

Congratulations on the kid.:)

[DizzyG3]

My wife and I sold our car a few months ago. We have a 2 year old boy and are expecting our second in November. We were in almost the exact same situation as you are now except we already had the kid. I won't lie to you. It isn't always a bed of roses. On the other hand, owning a car wasn't always great either. It sounds to me like you have pretty much everything you need right at your fingertips with groceries, public transit, and car share. I can't thikn of a reason to keep the car you have. Another possible "Plan B" would be to sell the car and put the oney into a CD or ING account that earns good interest. If you find car-free life not to your liking, you could then take the money and get something new. I would definitely look into the possibilty of getting insurance though. This bit me in the butt this weekend when I tried t rent a truck from a big home improvement chain to bring home a shed I had bought. They wouldn't rent to me unless I had a current registration for a car proving that I was insured. With the exception of this one incident, I have not missed having a car in the least. I bike to work as well and my wife takes care of our boy and everything else around the house. Sh ehas it a little more difficult than I do with the kid in tow, but manages to get around just fine. Maybe I'll have her post as well so you can get her thoughts directly. Most of our friends and family think we're crazy, but that goes both ways. We think they're crazy, too. I say GO FOR IT! The absolute worst case is that you regret the decision and buy another car in which case you end up back where you are right now and that's not so bad is it?

[DizzyG3]

I guess I dodn't really answer your original request for sharing tips and tricks. Here's what I would recommend:

First - Don't get a huge stroller. Get something light and compact, but good quality. We got a MacLaren Triumph http://www.maclarenbaby.com/us/2006_collection/buggies/product.php?m=triumph and it has served us well.

Second - Get a good sling (or other carrier) and learn to use it. We use the Maya Warp http://www.mayawrap.com and it has been great. Shop around though (if you haven't already) cuz there are only about a bajillion others available. A good kid carrier helps a lot and is better than dealing with a stroller when the kid is smaller.

Third - Take advantage of the monthly transit passes. They will easily pay for themsleves, especially if you already get them from your employer.

Fourth - When the kid is a little older, have a portable car seat handy. They're not suitable for infants, but hey they don't stay infants for long.


Fifth - DON'T be afraid to rent a car from time to time. You won't be any less car-free if you do. My wife and I rented a car for a trip the day after we sold our car. May sound silly, but it was strangely liberating.

Last - Keep a positive view to it all. All kinds of people will question what you're doing and call you crazy. Tell them honestly why you choose to do it, but don't be preachy (a hard lesson for me to learn). You just might influence someone else to do the same.

Best wishes to you and your (growing) family.

[donnamb]

Where do you live? I think your location makes a huge difference in whether or not it is doable.

[I-Like-To-Bike]

Can anyone share their tips & tricks for living car-free with a baby? But, we're expecting our first child in October...The pediatrician is just a few transit stops away. On the "keep the car" side, there's convenience and what currently seems like overwhelming societal pressure.

My advice - wait for a successful full term delivery of a healthy baby. Then maybe that pediatrician just a few transits stops away will work out just fine. Having kids is a crapshoot, very much in your favor, but why be hasty in getting rid of your, and your child's access to 24/7 transportation to full service and emergency health care?

[tsl]

The baby trailer made me think of this. It's apparently not advised to take infants on bikes or bike trailers. Something about the neck muscles not being fully developed and the skull plates not yet fused. I'm not a parent, so I don't know the details. It's worthy of investigation though.

There's a young dad who used to bring his daugher to the library where I work P/T, towing his daugher in their Chariot bike trailer. One day a couple of weeks ago he arrived by minivan. I was shocked, and asked why. He had his infant son in a carrier and explained it to me. More disappointed than either of us, was his daughter. She loves the Chariot but dad won't be riding for a year. Had a little resentment going there against her baby bro' for that.

[bragi]

I'd say ditch the car and get a Flexcar account in case of emergencies; you'd still have access to a car if something comes up, and it's far less expensive than actually owning one. It doesn't seem like you'll need a car on a regular basis. And as for social pressure: people will get over it once they realize you're serious, and will probably end up secretly admiring you for your choice, even if they never admit it.

[Platy]

If the mom doesn't see a need for the car, and if the dad refuses to learn how to drive it, the car may not be worth the expense. Young families are often under serious financial pressure. That's something to bear in mind. It's their decision to make.

[HardyWeinberg]

What kind of time lag is on your car shares? Can you always get one on demand?

I think a big thing is to expect frequent bannings from daycare for fevers trivial (teething) and major (actual illness occasionally strikes!). Can you easily work the triangle between picking your kid up early from daycare (when summarily banned) to the doctor (family doc/ped if appt available, urgent care/ER if no space or severe event) in time to get the kid back to daycare tomorrow (99% of daycare bannings are way pro-active, but still require MD note to return).

I'm pretty comfortable w/ our kids' system, providers of both health and day care and all their locations, so I can do w/o car (but my wife can't), but there are a lot of variables. If you're expecting your first and you don't really know how your kid will be, how the daycare is, yadda yadda, I wouldn't ditch the car unless the insurance is an unbearable financial burden.

If your husband is providing any keep-the-car pressure, make him learn the damn stickshift.

[Platy]

If your husband is providing any keep-the-car pressure, make him learn the damn stickshift.
Aye.

[Nightshade]

My advice - wait for a successful full term delivery of a healthy baby. Then maybe that pediatrician just a few transits stops away will work out just fine. Having kids is a crapshoot, very much in your favor, but why be hasty in getting rid of your, and your child's access to 24/7 transportation to full service and emergency health care?

While you have identified all the points that will allow YOU to go car-free adding a child to the mix is
an unknown element that can throw the best laid plans out the window.

That said, I agree with ILTB about waiting to see if child #1 is healthy enough to allow removal
of the car. Just keep minimum insurance on the car, drive it monthly to keep in shape, then let
some time pass to decide yes or no on keeping the car.

Bottom line here is......
There is not enough information availble yet to make an intellegent choice about your car.

[BenyBen]

For the car question: I'd say keep it for now. You never know when you may need it on an emergency. But you're probably the best judge on that situation, since you live in it. :)

I have a 5 month old baby by now, and we did this without owning a car. But it doesn't mean this will be currently so easy for you. There are certain factors that can make it easier on you. Anyhow, as far as tips and tricks:

-Get some kind of baby carrier. We got something like this (http://www.merehelene.com/en/portebebe-petitvoyageur.aspx), and it's been very easy walking around, and especially getting into a crowded bus when you need to get somewhere. If your husband doesn't want to wear it, just mention about all the feminine attention he will get, and he should get in line. :) Plus the baby loves it. When he's very young, that will always put him to sleep. When he's older and wide awake, he will mostly be calm and mesmerized by looking all around.

-Get a car seat!!!! Even without a car, if you need to take a cab, or a ride from friends/familly, a car seat is a must.

-Equip yourself with big sturdy backpacks, and sturdy, wide shopping bags (http://www.mec.ca/Products/product_detail.jsp?PRODUCT%3C%3Eprd_id=845524442543349&FOLDER%3C%3Efolder_id=2534374302699955&bmUID=1156776800994): We both have a bacpack, and one of them is always ready with the baby gear, while the other one if left empty, with a folded shopping bag inside. When we need to go fast to catch our bus, that really speeds things up. And when you're out and about like this, every oportunity to shop should be taken. The empty backpack and large shopping bag (can you say large diaper bag?) will come in handy more than once.

-Know your public transit, and your common routes, plan ahead the routes you don't know. Must large public transit offer a website with bus schedules, train stations, as well as a phone number you can use to check schedules for buses. Mine even has a route planner, which shows you available routes (using bus, metro and lightrail), as well as the time necessary to get to your destinations. Get familliar with yours.

The more you are informed, the easier using transit is. For example, all bus stops in my vincinity are bookmarked in my browser, for easy access. I have all my current bus stop code numbers stored in my cell phone (including return bus stops), so that I can plan ahead how to do things. From the restaurant, I can call in and find out how much time I have to go grocery shopping before my next bus.

That's about all I can think about for now. Though I know there's more, time is running short. :) If you're interested I'll try to post some more later on.

[I-Like-To-Bike]

It's their decision to make.
Obviously.:rolleyes: Also obvious is that one of them asked for advice. I think she should also consider asking advice from people who have experience with the sometimes difficult logistics of transporting infants in the real world, with real weather and with real complications, not just those who have read about various bicycling products in magazines or know about raising or caring for children from visiting their relatives at family picnics.

[BenyBen]

Obviously.:rolleyes: Also obvious is that one of them asked for advice. I think she should also consider asking advice from people who have experience with the sometimes difficult logistics of transporting infants in the real world, with real weather and with real complications, not just those who have read about various bicycling products in magazines or know about raising or caring for children from visiting their relatives at family picnics.

Did you fail the read the post just above your last one? Last time I looked, I live in the real world, and yes we've had to deal with weather. I guess that could be my next topic.

[I-Like-To-Bike]

Did you fail the read the post just above your last one? Last time I looked, I live in the real world, and yes we've had to deal with weather. I guess that could be my next topic.
Yes Beny you gave good advice too, as has tfahrner on occasion on the subject. Such advice stands out too because a large percentage of the posters who claim to be car-free (not car-lite) on this forum apparantly have zero practical experience and/or interest in the subject.

[BenyBen]

Yes Beny you gave good advice too, as has tfahrner on occasion on the subject. Such advice stands out too because a large percentage of the posters who claim to be car-free (not car-lite) on this forum apparantly have zero practical experience and/or interest in the subject.


You claim such advice stands out, but I say they are soon lost in a sea of unrelated ranting, and that is from both ends (carfree and non carfree).

If you are trying to help cut on useless information in threads, then be aware that whenever someone posts something in this forum that discredits and generalizes (from both ends again), it will most likely generate pages of posts unrelated to the current subject.

[CTAC]

I'd recommend to get a good stroller before all. You won't be able to use bicycle trailer until your child is at least several month old. Make sure that there is grocery story within walking distance where you can get diapers and formula, in case you suddenly find that you run out of them.
http://www.mykidscloset.com/mkc.images/items/19484/235x235/file0009548.02.jpg

[amward]

We have a 2 year old, and we're expecting in November (sound familiar, DizzyG3?).

Currently, we have 2 cars (both completely paid off), but one hasn't been out of the driveway since the end of June (and my brother borrowed it that day; we'll be getting rid of it soon). I would say the primary reason we use, and will keep one car, is for the regular visits to out-of-town family (many of whom are not in areas well supported by any kind of public transit). I ride to work; groceries, hospital, pharmacy are within a 5 minute walk; church, hardware store/lumber yard, fresh wood-fired-oven bagels & pizza, and downtown are within a 15 minute walk. Rec complex with pool, dentist, 24-hour grocery are ~30 minute walk. Our family doctor is ~40 minute walk (and it would probably take at least that long via public transit). All walk times above are one-way trips. We often have stretches of ~4 days when the car doesn't leave the driveway; we travel to visit family ~1 hour drive away at least once every 2 weeks.

I think geography plays a huge part in how car-free you are willing to go.

We have a Burley (purchased when our daughter turned 1, so I don't have experience with an infant in it). I'm very happy with it. We got a d-lite, and it's got enough supplementary luggage space that I can make it heavy enough that it's a chore to pull. I'd estimate that not putting a baby in until they're 1 year old is fairly conservative, but I'd definitely wait well beyond a few months (that only applies for pulling it behind the bikes...as a stroller, it should be good once they can sit up). I've pondered ways to attach the bucket car seat inside, but haven't made any attempts yet. Also, if you're comfortable with getting wet (or otherwise prepared for the rain), the Burley will keep your child dry. My wife, daughter, and I were at a community event that we rode our bikes to; it started pouring rain, and by the time we got home, only my daughter was dry.

Slings/carriers will become your best friend. We have a Maya (mentioned above) -- highly recommended: it's fairly inexpensive, and very good as a first sling for an infant. We also have an Ergo carrier (http://www.ergobabycarrier.com/) that is also great, especially with a toddler who's too tired to toddle. It was also ideal for travelling on the underground in London for a week.

Some of the other choices you can make can also reduce the baby-related errands you need to run. If you breastfeed, then you won't need to buy formula, etc. If you get some cloth diapers, then there are no trips to buy bulky packages of disposables. Around here, there are diaper services with weekly pick-up/drop-off that are cost- competitive with disposable diapers.

Like many others, I'd wait until the baby comes to actually sell the car.

Rather long winded, but hopefully of some value...

[BenyBen]

This is only my opinion, but I'm curious to hear about other car-free people.

I find strollers are usefull only in certain conditions. They can be cumbersome and slow when moving about a lot, and anoying to use in a crowded train/bus, or anywhere with a crowd.

Since im not going about in a car, I can't just stuff a big stroller in my backback when I don't need it, so it can become a piece of hardware I'm "stucked" with to carry arround.

[PaulH]

Most pediatricians recommend not taking a baby on a bike carrier or trailer until the age of about one year. You are going to be limited to walking and driving for that thime. If it is easier to use the car to get to the hospital, doctor, stores, etc., than to walk, I would most definitely recommend keeping the car. You will initially need a rearward-facing car seat. The good ones convert in various ways to suit your growing child.

If you keep the car, you still can't drive everywhere. Babies get really heavy after a few blocks, so a stroller is important. As BenyBen mentions, strollers don't always work (subways, beaches, hiking trails), so a backpack baby carrier is good to have. In short, my advice:

-Keep the car
-Get a car seat
-Get a good stroller (some bike trailers are also strollers - I think the Burley is one)
-Get a collapsable "umbrella" stroller for airplanes, busses, etc.
-Get a backpack carrier

Congratulations! Your life is about to become unimaginably complex, frustrating, and rewarding!


Paul

[tfahrner]

So, somebody, give me a little push! Tell me how easy it is!
It sounds to me like you've worked out enough details to need only a little push, indeed. Well, our son is now four and we have another kid on the way, and we've never owned a car, and we have no intent of changing that. I feel that we end up spending a lot more time in close physical exploration of the world and bodily closeness with our kid being cage free. This is as much a direct consequence of him not spending significant time behind our backs strapped into a plastic bucket with five straps, as of living in an environment and according to a routine in which cars are pointless apart from trying to seem normal to car addicts.

When our son does get into cars, a few times a year, he cries "I can't breathe!" and generally freaks out for a little while. He's otherwise a normal, confident, very happy boy in all kinds of situations. As much as I wish he weren't so distressed, part of me is glad he still knows something is not right with this arrangement. Reminds me that as cars were introduced, they were by law restricted to walking speed. These "red flag" laws were eventually repealed with great fanfare and even inter-city races were held at the dizzying new rural speed limit of 12mph: that's what seemed to unconditioned people a reasonable maximum for such heavy, noisy machines operated in rail-less proximity to human beings.

The right gear helps. It isn't all that hard to find if you're good at online research; I've listed some helpful stuff in previous posts, but suppose 3-4 years has left me behind the times as far as the niftiest infant gear goes.

Here's the latest bit of kit: http://todd.cleverchimp.com/blog/?p=139

[Slow Train]

Lots of advice here already :)

I think the little that I could add is:

If anyone could go car-free with a child it would be you! Kudos on thinking through the issue so thoroughly already! Since the car is paid for, and in good shape, the only savings you would get by going car-free would be the insurance/registration/taxes(?).

You could join one of the car-sharing services - insurance is included. And you can always call a taxi for those occasional "must go" right now times.

But on the other hand ----
It is always good practice when contemplating major changes to do them serially rather than all at once. I heard that nothing changes your life like having children and that first time parents just have no idea what is going to happen.

So how about this?
Keep the car and just enjoy being car lite++++ for the time being. tsl brings up a very good point about the tyke needing to grow a bit before he/she can be carried about as "baggage".

In a year, with the okay from your pediatrician, you can revisit the idea. You will have lost nothing really by keeping the car and you will be able to make a more informed decision then.

[Platy]

May I suggest a Snugli style front baby carrier and a backpack for the diaper kit.

[donnamb]

I think the bare minimum for babies in bike trailers is that they have to be able to support their own head with their necks.

[tfahrner]

Most pediatricians recommend not taking a baby on a bike carrier or trailer until the age of about one year. You are going to be limited to walking and driving for that thime.

Show me the peer-reviewed studies that support this conclusion. Filter out any common-sense abuse horrors of babies bouncing around trailers hauled at 20mph over pothole-strewn streets by meth moms. Filter out also stupidity-related tales of bikes tipping over as kids are loaded in and out of seats lacking decent stands, shunned in North America as dorkish. Then look at, say, the Netherlands, which has a far lower infant mortality than the US, and where infants are routinely hauled around from birth on bikes: http://todd.cleverchimp.com/bike/euro/eurobike-Pages/Image12.html and helmets serve only to identify American tourists. Compare to the US, where even in our child's highly regarded urban birth hospital, within walking distance of home, our child could not be released in any way other than strapped in to a recent-model car seat.

Cars are the #1 preventable cause of death of children in the US, except they're called "accidents" because it's supposedly a non-negotiable way of life. And if a kid on a bike is harmed by a car, it's the bike, not the car, that's called dangerous. Talk of helmets and paths closes over the obvious, because we're not prepared to deal with it as a society.

I call bull**** on what US motorist pediatricians fear about bikes. Sheep afraid of getting sued if they condone anything unusual, no matter how much more violent are the usual means of getting around than the gentle contractions of muscle operating on silent bearings; more judicious are the unencaged senses of the rider than roadway signals, signs, and GPS!

[Blue Order]

So parents should disregard the advice of their pediatrician because some guy on the internet says they should? Not to say that every doctor is right every time, and parents can and do question the advice of their pediatricians, but posting a picture of a cradle carrier on a Dutch bike doesn't prove anything except that somebody made a cradle carrier.

Maybe it's perfectly safe to haul babies around in trailers, but there are no peer-reviewed studies, or any other sort of "proof" offered in your post that argue against the advice of pediatricians, assuming that is in fact what pediatricians recommend.

[tfahrner]

So parents should disregard the advice of their pediatrician because some guy on the internet says they should?

no, responsible people should question questionable advice, especially when advised by authority figures in a consumer society that tends toward buying stuff unknown through most of human history and rare in some prosperous contemporary societies enjoying lower infant mortality too. the burden of proof is on those who counsel doing what in the majority of ages and places is not done, and does not generally lead to trouble.

responsible people should ask why an infant reclining securely in a carrier borne on a bike at 10 mph, with appropriate attention to the riding surface and the suspension afforded by tires or other means, is subject to greater trauma than an infant reclining securely in a carrier borne in a car at 60 mph. responsible people should question whether the answer involves the perceived risk of harm from cars colliding with said bike, and question whether it is ethical to augment one's own safety by jeopardizing that of others lacking several tons and thousands of dollars of motorized armor.

[Blue Order]

no, responsible people should questionNo argument from me there.


questionable advice,Well, what would make it questionable?


especially when advised by authority figures in a consumer society that tends toward buying stuff unknown through most of human history and rare in some prosperous contemporary societies enjoying lower infant mortality too.The problem I have with your reference to the lower infant mortality rates in the Netherlands is that it's a meaningless statistic that's used, however unintentionally, in a misleading way. I'll assume that the Netherlands does indeed have a lower infant mortality rate. It's not hard to believe. However, from the little I do know about infant mortality rates, it's my guess that better prenatal care and socialized medicine are the basis for the lower infant mortality rate in the Netherlands, and I would hazard a guess that the lower reliance on the automobile has little or nothing to do with the lower infant mortality rate. As I haven't done any research on this, and am only relying on my recollected reading, feel free to prove me wrong.

the burden of proof is on those who counsel doing what in the majority of ages and places is not done, and does not generally lead to trouble.I seriously doubt that hauling infants around on bicycle trailers is the standard or ever has been the standard for infant care, in the majority of ages and places, as you put it. So if a pediatrician counsels against it-- and I'm not saying the pediatrician is right, or that parents shouldn't ask questions-- if a pediatrician counsels against hauling infants around in bicycle trailers, that's not exactly counseling against "what in the majority of ages and places" is or has been done.

responsible people should ask why an infant reclining securely in a carrier borne on a bike at 10 mph, with appropriate attention to the riding surface and the suspension afforded by tires or other means, is subject to greater trauma than an infant reclining securely in a carrier borne in a car at 60 mph.I would agree if the infant is supported in the same way. If the support is in some way different, they can't be compared.

responsible people should question whether the answer involves the perceived risk of harm from cars colliding with said bike,I don't see how a 6 month old would be in greater peril than a one year old. They're both exposed to the same risk of collision.

and question whether it is ethical to augment one's own safety by jeopardizing that of others lacking several tons and thousands of dollars of motorized armor.I'm not sure what you mean here.

[Bike_UK]

She has it a little more difficult than I do with the kid in tow, but manages to get around just fine. Maybe I'll have her post as well so you can get her thoughts directly.
Yes please, i'd be interested to read her experiences. :)

[tuolumne]

I think the bare minimum for babies in bike trailers is that they have to be able to support their own head with their necks.

We've transported our children in bike trailers from as early as two weeks old. We use a rear-facing car seat strapped into the trailer. This is just as secure as transporting them by car. The baby will need a rolled up blanket or other such support to prevent their head from rolling side to side...but you would need that in a car as well. Rain cover protects from the elements. Cold weather travel is another issue alltogether, and is not possible with infants (in our mind) by bike. Our fifth child is now 3 months old. You'll find plenty of extra room in a trailer for baby accessories, groceries, lunch etc. We haven't strapped our children into the trailers without the carseat until they're old enough to walk...10 months or so.

[tuolumne]

Maybe it's perfectly safe to haul babies around in trailers, but there are no peer-reviewed studies, or any other sort of "proof" offered in your post that argue against the advice of pediatricians, assuming that is in fact what pediatricians recommend.

Parents should do what responsible parents have done for thousands of years. That is, make do with what they have to care for and protect their children to the greatest extent possible. Our responsible parents carried us in their arms in the front seat of their cars and felt is was perfectly safe. Their parents did the same. Perhaps in the previous generation they packed their infants away in the back of a buggy or wagon. I cannot speak as to the risk of a car vs. bike collision. Of course that is always feared, but it makes little difference as to the age of the victim. Pediatricians operate our of fear of a lawsuit-crazy generation. So, yes it is appropriate to go against their recommendations at times with careful consideration of the situation and all risks involved.

[Lieren]

Thanks, everyone! This is a real wealth of information and plenty for me and the hubbie to chew over. A few clarifications - I should have said we were thinking of the bike trailer as a hauling device more so than a kid-moving device, but the family we are inheriting it from did use it frequently with their babies by strapping a car seat in. And we've also been given a car seat with a removable infant seat that can be belted into a cab in a pinch. We've already got Maya slings and a loaner Baby Bjorn but haven't picked out a stroller yet ... we're leaning towards a Maclaren or an Ingelsina, which apparently can be collapsed by flipping a lever or some similar thing that is easy to do when the bus is coming.

I have to admit I hadn't thought about transporting a sick or injured child to the hospital (I'm still in the innocent phase of pre-parenthood) but there is a children's hospital and a university hospital nine blocks away.

We're in Philly, so insurance rates are high and we park on the street - often, the car is further from our front door than the trolley stop is. Since we drive so few places now, it's hard for me to envision how a car will make life easier, but it's also hard to envision all the changes a baby will produce!

Thanks again, and I welcome any additional thoughts or tips. This is really helpful!

[I-Like-To-Bike]

often, the car is further from our front door than the trolley stop is. Since we drive so few places now, it's hard for me to envision how a car will make life easier, but it's also hard to envision all the changes a baby will produce!
I lived in Philadelphia for 30 years. When you do get to your parked car it is ready to go, unlike arriving at the transit stop wondering when/if the trolley is coming .It is hard for me to imagine waiting for a trolley to arrive if in labor pains or with a sick baby, in the rain or snow, or at Midnight. Remember, emergencies and sickness won't always happen when convenient or according to the daytime rush hour schedule of SEPTA trolleys.

[mhifoe]

I lived in Philadelphia for 30 years. When you do get to your parked car it is ready to go, unlike arriving at the transit stop wondering when/if the trolley is coming .It is hard for me to imagine waiting for a trolley to arrive if in labor pains or with a sick baby, in the rain or snow, or at Midnight. Remember, emergencies and sickness won't always happen when convenient or according to the daytime rush hour schedule of SEPTA trolleys.

If it is an emergency you can call an ambulance or a cab depending on severity. No-one is suggesting taking a severely sick child to hospital by bus.

This is a much cheaper option than keeping a car for emergencies. What would you do if you car wouldn't start?

[jeff-o]

My wife and I have a second car that we do not drive. We're storing it until we get time to sell it. Right now, we have damage and theft insurance on the car, for a whopping $4.50 a month. I think you should keep it fully insured until the baby is born, and is a few months old. Then, take the car off regular insurance for another while longer. If you can get along without the car for another few months, then you can sell it. If not, then all you have to do is quick call the insurance agent to put the car back on full insurance.

[cerewa]

I have to admit I hadn't thought about transporting a sick or injured child to the hospital (I'm still in the innocent phase of pre-parenthood) but there is a children's hospital and a university hospital nine blocks away.

This question of "what about emergency trips to the hospital (or vet) because so-and-so is sick" comes up in practically every discussion about going car free. And the answer every time is, "take a taxi or ambulance."

[I-Like-To-Bike]

This question of "what about emergency trips to the hospital (or vet) because so-and-so is sick" comes up in practically every discussion about going car free. And the answer every time is, "take a taxi or ambulance."
Good advice - to give to somebody else - when the delay wouldn't bother the advice giver's welfare. The "answer" is unsatisfactory every time too.

[tfahrner]

Good advice - to give to somebody else - when the delay wouldn't bother the advice giver's welfare. The "answer" is unsatisfactory every time too.
I suppose the risk of my kid dying because i couldn't bike him to the hospital as fast as i could drive there is on the same order as that i would kill somebody else's kid on the way to said hospital in a car. Do you have a bomb shelter, ILTB? Won't you think of your family?

We live within 2 miles of 3 emergency medical facilities, as probably do many people living in cities (and yes we have a yard too and it's quiet when cars aren't driving by). This proximity didn't factor directly into our decision to live here, but if our kid had health problems it certainly would have been yet another reason *not* to live in an auto-dependent area (most places developed after about 1925 in the US).

[donnamb]

I only post this (http://bikeportland.org/2006/08/29/cool-ways-to-carry-kids/)because the writer (who happens to be writing about tfahrner) has a lot of experience with kids and no car, and some of the other commenters do, too.

[HardyWeinberg]

How close to your home (and the daycare and those hospitals, which are all close together apparently) is your work? That's a circuit you will have to make from time to time, get called out of work when the kid's fever spikes or some other symptom appears (our kids have been booted from daycares for everything from imagined pinkeye to imagined chickenpox, and only very seldomly for actual conditions, which we can usually spot and keep them home on our own initiative, but anyway the daycare decides we need to bring kid to MD for note before they can come back), you can call ahead to get an appt w/ MD so maybe you go straight from work to the daycare, bring kid from daycare to health provider, get the note so kid can go back to daycare that day (if there's time) or next day... if there's a lag in when you can get appt, then you go from work to daycare, daycare to home, wait tapping toes until appointment is available, yadda yadda...

[gwd]

I only post this (http://bikeportland.org/2006/08/29/cool-ways-to-carry-kids/)because the writer (who happens to be writing about tfahrner) has a lot of experience with kids and no car, and some of the other commenters do, too.
This quote from that link is a good summary:
"There are so many options and choices when it comes to kids and bikes that it can be overwhelming. "

Also they mention a trike made in Philly where Lieren is from.

[mhifoe]

Good advice - to give to somebody else - when the delay wouldn't bother the advice giver's welfare. The "answer" is unsatisfactory every time too.

I have a car, but if my child is ill I will call an ambulance rather than try and drive to the hospital.

An ambulance with flashing lights will make it through traffic faster than me, and an ambulance comes equipped with paramedics. Calling an ambulance is the quickest way to ensure your child gets medical attention as quickly as possible.

[Platy]

...Calling an ambulance is the quickest way to ensure your child gets medical attention as quickly as possible.

I agree. Consider some specific major medical emergencies. Seizure? Allergic reaction with breathing difficulty? Fall with possible neck or spinal injury? Hit by a car? Crushing chest pain? In many cases the most important thing is to get well equipped paramedics on the spot as soon as possible.

A few years ago my cardiologist used the specific words "stupid" and "lucky this time" to describe my choice to have my wife drive me to the emergency room instead of immediately calling 911 (the emergency phone number in most of the U.S.)

[I-Like-To-Bike]

I have a car, but if my child is ill I will call an ambulance rather than try and drive to the hospital.
I suppose that works if you want to call an ambulance every time you need to take a sick child to get unscheduled medical attention for say a broken arm, split lip, chipped tooth, fever, poison ivy rash, dog bite, etc. Are ambulances where you live also good for quickly leaving work or home to pick up a sick child from school or daycare too?

[Platy]

I suppose that works if you want to call an ambulance every time you need to take a sick child to get unscheduled medical attention for say a broken arm, split lip, chipped tooth, fever, poison ivy rash, dog bite, etc. Are ambulances where you live also good for quickly leaving work or home to pick up a sick child from school or daycare too?
Taxis as well as ambulances have been mentioned as possible solutions for those kinds of situation.

It might also be true that daycare and the mom's job are close together and convenient to the family's residence. It could even be possible that the mom is not required to work. As always, choices and planning are important factors for enabling carfree living.

[BenyBen]

I suppose that works if you want to call an ambulance every time you need to take a sick child to get unscheduled medical attention for say a broken arm, split lip, chipped tooth, fever, poison ivy rash, dog bite, etc.

I think the whole point here, is that if it's critical enough to need imediate assistance, then you need an ambulance (for real). For high fever, broken arm, ferver etc, a cab ride (if of course you live where cab service is available) will do the job.

Besides, for a broken arm or something not life threathening, waiting for a cab isn't going to change much since last time I've been to the H with a friend for a broken arm, we waited 5 hours before he got looked at.

Are ambulances where you live also good for quickly leaving work or home to pick up a sick child from school or daycare too?

No, but cabs certainly are! Which is what has been said. I feel like you're running around in circles, trying to stand on an a wobbly piece of argument....

[tfahrner]

How close to your home (and the daycare and those hospitals, which are all close together apparently) is your work?
I work from home now, but this is a luxury that only working hard and living frugally (car-free) for decades as an adult has brought us. The first 2 years of my son's life, I worked 9 miles away from home. On 2 occasions I biked away early because my son was sick. No big deal. On another occasion an ambulance was involved (not my kid, long story.) I arrived at the scene by bike before the hurt kid's parent did by car.

I've taken my son to the doctor when he's been sick on the bike several times, even in cold weather (even up the hill to UCSF Parnassus). I bundle him up. An early example: http://todd.cleverchimp.com/blog/images/IMG_177.jpg . One time he had croup (difficulty breathing and a barking-type cough); the cold air on the way to the doctor reduced the constriction of his airway, so he was asymptomatic until minutes after we got inside. He used to fall asleep on the bike any time we were underway longer than 5 minutes, so uncomfortable was it for him.

Until recently my son's preschool was 4.5 miles from home; the 4 legs of getting there and back every weekday was 18 miles, through the wet icy winter too. He napped in the trailer on the way home after finishing his snack. A neighbor whose child went to the same place would always marvel that we would arrive home at roughly the same time though she always drove (she had 4 kids; that would indeed call for more creativity).

[gwd]

I suppose that works if you want to call an ambulance every time you need to take a sick child to get unscheduled medical attention for say a broken arm, split lip, chipped tooth, fever, poison ivy rash, dog bite, etc. Are ambulances where you live also good for quickly leaving work or home to pick up a sick child from school or daycare too?
You are posting nonsense again. If the kid needs a quick attention the ambulance option works whether from school or home car free or not. If the kid is at school the kid should get appropriate care. My mother raised two infants much further timewise from medical help than where most city dwellers live car free or not. I was one of those infants. The time difference to get medical help in an urban setting in some situation where an ambulance is inappropriate between car free and non car free is much smaller than the difference between car dependent in a rural setting and car dependent in an urban setting. I don't think our parents exposed us to unacceptable risk by occupying the family farmhouse for a few years when they were just starting out. It saved some money for them just like a young urban couple today can save some money by going car free.

[mhifoe]

I suppose that works if you want to call an ambulance every time you need to take a sick child to get unscheduled medical attention for say a broken arm, split lip, chipped tooth, fever, poison ivy rash, dog bite, etc. Are ambulances where you live also good for quickly leaving work or home to pick up a sick child from school or daycare too?

If my daughter requires non-emergency treatment, she will be travelling there in a pram pushed by my non-driving wife. We live in the centre of town, five minutes walk from the doctors surgery.