Custom Builders, who's best?

[IRideTheRoads]

I plan to buy a custom Ti road bike.
The three builders I'm currently considering are Seven, Independent Fabrication and Serotta. I'm leaning toward Seven because their web site and literature stress the metallurgical prowess of their tubing and I'm a metallurgy geek, but I've heard that their measuring system is weak. IF has won Bicycle Mag "Lust" two years in a row and that's a strong endorsement. Serotta supposedly has the state-of-the-art measurement system and is the largest of the three.
Anyone able to give firsthand experience with any of these companies? Is there a company that makes a Ti bike better than any of them?
Thanks for any help.

[bmike]

I have my IF (ti) almost built.
I'll write and post about it soon (about a week) over in the long distance forum (its a brevet bike).

IF was great to work with, I visited and got a tour, and dealt directly with one of the designers when I had questions. I liked the company philosophy (employee owned) as well as the punk rock meets bike science meets art school meets incredible craftsmem and women.

About 14 weeks from deposit to frame delivery to my LBS. I'm waiting for a few misordered parts (not IF's issue) - and I'll finish the build.



The Ti frame is beautiful. I have the steel fork (long reach brakes, low riders for lights, clearance for fenders) which is also a work of art. I saw the frame for the first time this Friday and started the build. Made me want to frame it.

The frame "looks right" - the welds are incredible - the detailing superb. (I have the shot peened Ti, no paint) Frame only weighed under 3 lbs. Not sure what the fork weighs - I could go carbon if I was a weight weenie - but I'm not really.

Rough wild ar$e guess will be a 20 +/- pound bike with pedals, heavy crank, Salsa bars, and my old stem. (will be upgrading a bit as I go) Of course I need to add fenders, lights, hydration, aerobars, etc for my LD stuff... so I'll have to work on losing another 10 pounds for next year.

I'll update here when I post the build.


Not sure what you mean by "measuring system" - if you are talking fit, go see these folks: FitWerx (http://fitwerx.com/) - I believe they deal with all 3 companies.

Would Seven have propreitary tubing? Seems that any respectable builder could get whatever tubing you wanted... IF shot peens their frames for strength. Joe explained it to me on my tour - something about hitting the Ti at certain angles to strengthen or align the structure...

I don't think you can go wrong with any of the builders listed - some of the local guys I used to ride with had IF's - and they can be pretty rare on the road - they are rideable works of art.

[Thylacine]

It's hard to define what 'better' actually means. Personally, I'd get fit up buy someone independant of any builder, and then take that information to a builder and talk tubing selection and geometry to best suit what you want to do. No one company has a fit system that is even close to the quality of fit you get from someone that is a sports physiologist / bike fit specialist.

In terms of Ti tubing, eveyone uses the same stuff anyway, so I'm not sure what this 'metallurgical prowess' you're talking about actually is. It's all the same Seamless Grade 9 CWSR 3-2.5 Ti from where I'm sitting.

I think what it boils down to is which company can you relate to the best, and which provides the best value. Personally, I think you can get a better deal in terms of customer service and often in overall quality, by going with one of the smaller players.

Naturally I'm biased, but short of recommending us, (http://www.thylacinecycles.com/gallery) I'd say you'd be doing yourself a disservice if you didn't take a look at the likes of Kent Eriksen, Steve Potts, Jim Kish and Black Sheep for your next Ti bike.

[lrzipris]

Before you decide, talk to Tom Kellogg at Spectrum.

[bmike]

My IF thread. (http://www.bikeforums.net/showthread.php?t=223783)

[SEAtrain]

Great list of options. Thanks!

[brunop]

IF. with seven second. frankly, i think the welds on serottas are sloppy for that price.

i have 2 IF's. one steel and one TI which i will have in about a month.

[Revtor]

go with the place you can actually drive to and get fitted in person. you will be in love with whichever you choose..!
Steve

[Jakey]

I have limited experience, but I had a personal fitting with Antonio Mondonico and the frame he built me is magnificent. He doesn't build ti though...so I guess this post is pretty much meaningless.

I've heard good things about IF.

[potus]

there's also http://strongframes.com & http://www.moots.com/ to consider.

oh man I wish I were in your shoes.

[dogpound]

I also have to IFs (both steel) and had a wonderful experience with them.

[kipjac]

This is in reply to the guy who is trying to decide from whom he should buy a custom titanium frameset from; Seven, IF, or Serotta:

I've owned my Seven Axiom since 1998 and the bike is an absolute joy to ride. Seven sent me a very detailed 15 page measurement questionnaire before my purchase that included such things as style of riding, detailed body measurements, current bike geometry, presence or absence of pain while riding, and many other riding aspects that I've now forgotten. In addition to that, I had several telephone conversations with them during the course of my frameset's manufacturing process that clarified any questions they had about sizing and fit and we also corresponded via email on numerous occasions.

Myopinion is Seven is second to none and I would recommend them wholeheartedly based on my experiences with them. I've ridden my Axiom thousands of miles since then and love every minute being in the saddle.

[cs1]

I plan to buy a custom Ti road bike.
So far so good.

The three builders I'm currently considering are Seven, Independent Fabrication and Serotta.
All very good accomplished shops. They aren't really custom builders like Richard Sachs though. I would say they are more like Waterford, which aint a bad thing though.

I'm leaning toward Seven because their web site and literature stress the metallurgical prowess of their tubing and I'm a metallurgy geek, but I've heard that their measuring system is weak.
If you want real world fitting, then buy a Rivendell. He doesn't use any mumbo jumbo BS "secret" fitting methods designed by an M.I.T. grad. Post a question on his method and every single buyer of a Rivendell will give you a thumbs up.

IF has won Bicycle Mag "Lust" two years in a row and that's a strong endorsement.
Of all the statements you made so far, that is the weakest. Since when is vanity a good reason to do anything? Well, I take that back. My wife feels it's a great idea when she goes on a spending spree.

Serotta supposedly has the state-of-the-art measurement system and is the largest of the three.
See the previous post on fitting. As for size, Richard Sachs is a one man shop and is regarded as the "Premier Framemaker" living today. Size only matters in sex. LOL

Anyone able to give firsthand experience with any of these companies? Is there a company that makes a Ti bike better than any of them?
Thanks for any help.

Pesonally, I would go for a quality steel Reynolds 853 frame. The difference in weight is minimal. Nothing beats a high quality lugged steel frame. What would you rather look down at on your ride, hand carved lugs or welds? There just isn't that much craftmanship in a weld. Good luck in whatever you choose, they are all fine builders.

Tim

[bmike]

So far so good.


All very good accomplished shops. They aren't really custom builders like Richard Sachs though. I would say they are more like Waterford, which aint a bad thing though.


If you want real world fitting, then buy a Rivendell. He doesn't use any mumbo jumbo BS "secret" fitting methods designed by an M.I.T. grad. Post a question on his method and every single buyer of a Rivendell will give you a thumbs up.


Of all the statements you made so far, that is the weakest. Since when is vanity a good reason to do anything? Well, I take that back. My wife feels it's a great idea when she goes on a spending spree.


See the previous post on fitting. As for size, Richard Sachs is a one man shop and is regarded as the "Premier Framemaker" living today. Size only matters in sex. LOL



Pesonally, I would go for a quality steel Reynolds 853 frame. The difference in weight is minimal. Nothing beats a high quality lugged steel frame. What would you rather look down at on your ride, hand carved lugs or welds? There just isn't that much craftmanship in a weld. Good luck in whatever you choose, they are all fine builders.

Tim


Everything you say is true, when relative to you, and what you like, and what you read, and what you believe.

The Rivendell fit is pretty primitive compared to getting a Serrotta certified fitter and getting on a fit cycle to see how you ride and what you look like on the bike. My IF fit was done through a LBS with a phys therapist who specializes in bikes watching me pedal. We took dimensions, did flexibility and range of motion, looked at an existing medical condition and noted it all on the IF fit form.

Upon taking delivery of my frame I assembled it and had a pro fit done at FitWerx in VT. Smarted money I've spent on cycling.
There is no "mumbo jumbo" - there also weren't any lasers and formulas - just folks who love bikes and making people comfy on em.

Fit is dynamic - how can 1 page in a BW catalog that you fax back to a shop in CA really be "real word"?

... and most Rivs are made overseas. As far as I know the 3 brands the OP mentioned keep the craft (welds or not) stateside. IF is even worker owned.

Your comment about "custom" seems off. I sat down with the designer at IF and talked tubes, got a tour, and we looked at geometry with a computer representation of me (from my fit) on the screen. We tweaked some things before we pushed go.

[cadence90]

DeSalvo rocks Ti...as well as Kish, Spectrum, Roark, Crisp, Nelson, Potts and Castellano for Offroad.

DW

See these threads for a Kish ti road frame (http://www.bikeforums.net/showthread.php?t=241159) and a Kish ti hardtail (http://www.bikeforums.net/showthread.php?p=3295966#post3295966). Good stuff!