Classic & Vintage - What brand of bike is this?

I bought this 10 speed bike in 1976. It was fairly used when I bought it. It has all the original equipment on it from when I bought it except for the handlebar padding, safety reflectors, and tires. It appears to have been painted at least once. I would guess at least mid-60s vintage based on the condition of the bike when I bought it. The bike has no markings of any kind on the frame. It has the following equipment:

Handlebar stem: AVA (France)
Axle Hubs and quick release: Sprint (France)
Rim: Nisi Toro (Italy)
Gear & Crank: Magistroni (50 & 47 tooth) (Italy)
Derailleur: Campignalo (Italy)
Brakes: Weinmann Vainqueur 999 (France)
Pedals: Atom (France)
Seat: Brooks (England)
Kickstand: SG (Germany)

I have been curious about its origin since the day I bought it. Any help would be appreciated.
http://i64.photobucket.com/albums/h184/lmdavis57/Bike0001.jpg
http://i64.photobucket.com/albums/h184/lmdavis57/Bike0002.jpg
http://i64.photobucket.com/albums/h184/lmdavis57/Bike0003.jpg

Cool lugs!

I have no idea what it is, though. Did you buy it new? EDIT: Ah, i see, you bought it used.

I would think those distinctive lugs would help ID it.

I was hoping that someone would recognize the lugs. I know nothing about antique bikes but I figured the lugs were unusual and would identify the frame manufacturer. The bike is very light.

Most of the components appear to be very good for the time period.

A 1960's Olmo? Look at this one. The lugs are very similar.
http://fixedgeargallery.com/2006/aug/roberson3084_comcast.htm

A 1960's Olmo? Look at this one. The lugs are very similar.
http://fixedgeargallery.com/2006/aug/roberson3084_comcast.htm

Could be. The lugs are similar if not identical and the chrome accents are exactly like mine except that mine does not have chrome lugs (or they are painted over?).

It appears the one in the picture has a lot of parts that were not original. I believe everything on mine is original except for the parts I added that I mentioned.

Never heard of an Olmo. Did some research and found out the brand is Italian.

A picture of the rear dropouts could shed some more light on the quality of the already nice-looking frame. What are your plans for this bike? It looks like it would be a fun project.

Yeah I was going to guess 60s Italian...the Olmo looks pretty close (good detective work!), but I've seen similar lugs on a couple other early Italian marques, too, so the lugs alone might not be unique to Olmo. Even with all that French stuff, the Magistroni cranks tend to indicate an Italian BB, but checking the BB will confirm IT or FR, right quick. I'd bet the dropouts are stamped plate, that would be common on this vintage, but yeah, show us a pic of them. Nisi rims with French hubs...hmmm...

Yeah I was going to guess 60s Italian...the Olmo looks pretty close (good detective work!)...
It was just dumb luck that I saw that Olmo the night before.

the different components probably indicate a different model, not that
the CR photo is of a bike with replaced components, the chromed
lugs support them being different models also. I don't think your lugs
have been painted over.
I would say 70's bike boom era.

marty

Considering the bike was fairly worn when I bought it in 1976 used, and had been painted over at that time, I have got to believe it is 60s vintage just from that, but I really have no knowledge of bicycles. There is evidence of white paint under the crappy brown, and red under that. The ugly paint job was one of the reasons I bought it. I was in college at the time and had a brand new Raleigh 10-speed stolen, so I bought this for $45 and figured nobody would want it.

Here are some additional pics as requested (I think I got the parts right that were of interest. I am not a cyclist and the lingo is not familiar to me).

http://i64.photobucket.com/albums/h184/lmdavis57/Bike0006.jpg

http://i64.photobucket.com/albums/h184/lmdavis57/Bike0009.jpg

http://i64.photobucket.com/albums/h184/lmdavis57/Bike0005.jpg

http://i64.photobucket.com/albums/h184/lmdavis57/Bike0008.jpg

Nisi rims with French hubs...hmmm...

The rear rim is Nisi. I can't find any markings on the front rim . Both hubs are Sprint.


A 1960's Olmo? Look at this one. The lugs are very similar.

I sent the pictures to the guy with the Olmo, he pointed out some differences that would at least eliminate it as same model if not a different manufacturer.

As of right now I have no plans for the bike, but I would like to know if it should be restored or left as is. I am not sure if this bike has any value either as is or restored.

Looks just like my Olmo that I've owned since 1982. Do you have a stamping just below the seatlug on the drive side? I was told my bike was an Olmo at the time when I acquired it, though it had no decals. I have seen 2 others through the years that were Olmos that are just like this one. Definitely very unusual. Here's mine (http://www.highertechpc.com/index.php?act=viewDoc&docId=14)

It may be an Olmo De Luxe. Mine is probably from 1968. I modified my Olmo when I was a kid, unfortunately, and has been that way it is since then. It's ready for a repaint since I never finished the current paint job. I just lost interest in finishing it years ago.

I do ride this bike. It is actually great. One of the best bikes I have ever owned, if not the best.

Thanks for the reply. I have checked my bike over and can't find any evidence of serial numbers or other identifiable markings, but these may be covered over by paint. I took a picture of the tubing below the seat post. As you can see no markings, but you can see some red paint popping through the layers of brown, gray, and white paint. All of this paint was on the bike when I bought it in the San Fernando Valley in 1976.

http://i64.photobucket.com/albums/h184/lmdavis57/Bike0010.jpg

I also noticed that your bike does not appear to have the fancy lug on the bottom bracket like mine does. You can see these in this picture:

http://i64.photobucket.com/albums/h184/lmdavis57/Bike0005.jpg

Regarding chrome lugs, the bike has none on the frame, but as you can see in this picture, the tops of the fork tubes have chrome lugs. Still wondering if they might be chrome underneath the paint, especially since the tubes next to the rear wheels are partially chrome as well as the fork tubes. Compare it to the photo of the 1960s vintage Olmo Special.

http://i64.photobucket.com/albums/h184/lmdavis57/Bike0011.jpg
http://i64.photobucket.com/albums/h184/lmdavis57/roberson3084_comcast-2.jpg

I found this 1961 Olmo photograph and advertisement (from Los Angeles where I bought the bike used). Similarities are sooo close. I gotta believe that mine is an Olmo. Where would identifiable markings be on Olmos? Did they put serial numbers on their frames or other markings?

http://www.vintagebicyclepress.com/images/olmopix.htm

LOL
That's funny.I got my Olmo in the San Fernando Valley (North Hollywood) too, back in '82.

Thanks for the reply. I have checked my bike over and can't find any evidence of serial numbers or other identifiable markings, but these may be covered over by paint. ...
I also noticed that your bike does not appear to have the fancy lug on the bottom bracket like mine does.

I have no doubt that yours is an Olmo. Mine, I have alway doubted because of the lack of fancy lugs at the BB, The old ad you posted does not appear to be like the one you have.

Here is another fancy lugged Olmo looking Cambio Corsa rear dropout bike (http://www.classicrendezvous.com/Events/Cirque/Cirque_05/photos/cirque_2005_swap_show_pics.htm) Notice the seat cluster area is different from yours and mine. Of course this bike is from the '40s. (image is toward the bottom, it's a Bianch Celeste color with 2 guys and 2 girls in the image)

What a great thread, this is fun to read. Looks like the specs in that advert for the "#3 professional regular" might describe your model Olmo, and it seems about 90% certain that's it's an Olmo. That Cambio Corsa shot has what looks like an Atala rear cluster and Atala-shaped decals/headbadge, but like I thought shows there are other makes with similar lugs, but still...yours seems like an Olmo. I'd bet there IS chrome under the painted lugs, but probably not in good condition, unless you're very lucky. Restoration would be a very nice project, and if you're so inclined this is a good candidate, but be prepared: it WON'T be cheap!

Yeah I was going to guess 60s Italian...the Olmo looks pretty close (good detective work!), but I've seen similar lugs on a couple other early Italian marques, too, so the lugs alone might not be unique to Olmo.

Similar lugwork was also seen on Torpado.

Here is another fancy lugged Olmo looking Cambio Corsa rear dropout bike (http://www.classicrendezvous.com/Events/Cirque/Cirque_05/photos/cirque_2005_swap_show_pics.htm) Notice the seat cluster area is different from yours and mine. Of course this bike is from the '40s. (image is toward the bottom, it's a Bianch Celeste color with 2 guys and 2 girls in the image)

Note also the lugs on the Motebecane Mod. Grand Record. It's not as noticeable as mine because the lugs are the same color, but the frame has lugs like mine, the rear drops look similar as well, and the seat post clamping is same as mine whereas a lot of the Olmos had a special clamp like this.

http://i64.photobucket.com/albums/h184/lmdavis57/OlmoSeatPostClamp.jpg

Yet others are simple clamps like mine but have an Olmo stamp on a downtube like this. Mine has neither

http://i64.photobucket.com/albums/h184/lmdavis57/OlmoSeatPost.jpg

I wish I could get a look at that Motebecane up close to checkout the BB and see if it has fancy lugs like mine. Maybe mine is a Motobecane and not an Olmo. Dang, how am I ever going to figure this one out?

Note also the lugs on the Motebecane Mod. Grand Record. It's not as noticeable as mine because the lugs are the same colorThe lugs on the Moto are Nervex Pros.

http://www.classicrendezvous.com/images/French/Motobecane/MotoJM4L.jpg

They are hard to see in the all grey bike ...

Bob

That part is easy, the Olmo (or any Italian from the '60s) should have a BB shell measuring 70mm wide. The Moto (or any French frame from the '60s) should measure 68mm wide...this is one of the easier things on a bike to measure, all you need is a good metric scale, go from edge to edge of the shell itself, just inside of the chrome plated BB cups. You are looking at 2 examples of Olmo seat cluster from very different time periods: the top could be from the '40s or '50s and the bottom is much more modern. Yours is probably from the '60s so in between and different from both of these...still doesn't rule out its being an Olmo, you may not know until one crops up EXACTLY like yours with its decals intact, and that could be a long time to never. Relax and enjoy the relative consensus of opinion, but keep looking...it's actually part of the FUN of this hobby...really!

Similar lugwork was also seen on Torpado.

Thanks for the other lead. I checked out Torpado and they do have fancy lugs, but from the pictures I have found the lugs do not match mine like the Olmo does. The write-up in Classic Rendevous (http://www.classicrendezvous.com/Italy/Torpado/torpado_main.htm)says they were imported into the US in the 70s and 80s (South Carolina).

I would definitely fix that up no matter what it is. I don't know if I would go for a full restoration, but it could be made very pretty. Cool bike.

That part is easy, the Olmo (or any Italian from the '60s) should have a BB shell measuring 70mm wide. The Moto (or any French frame from the '60s) should measure 68mm wide...this is one of the easier things on a bike to measure, all you need is a good metric scale, go from edge to edge of the shell itself, just inside of the chrome plated BB cups.

It's Italian. 70mm on the dot. Another indication it could be an Olmo.

When I worked in the LBS as a teenager, I bought a bike from the owner that he had acquired at a police auction. It was an early sixties Italian frame with plain dropouts, chromed head lugs, fork tips and chainstays. The chrome was shot. The bike was painted black with a rattle can. He had outfitted it with such high (sarcasm) end components like Sugino Maxy cranks and Atom hubs. It was light and cheap, and had Campy Gran Sport derailleurs with Campy Barcons. It had Universal center pulls, too.

What bugged me about the bike is that I had once owned another similar frame as well as seen others like it and didn't know the manufacturer. I recall seeing one bike like it with the name "Aquila", I think, but am fuzzy on that.

That was my last bike before a 25 year hiatus from riding. I painted it Schwinn Silver with a clear coat, did some lug accents in blue and put blue cotton bar tape on it. It really looked sharp. I think I sold it for $150 in 1975.

... What bugged me about the bike is that I had once owned another similar frame as well as seen others like it and didn't know the manufacturer. I recall seeing one bike like it with the name "Aquila", I think, but am fuzzy on that. ... Atala, perhaps?

One can always identify a Capo by its lugs :)

Hi All-

I have mostly lurked here since joining the group last winter, and really enjoy and appreciate the dialogue in this forum. Glad I finally have a chance to participate in the dialog. Trojanfan, FWIW, I have a 1964 Olmo Speciale (at least, it was sold to me as a '64 by the original owner). Looks like there's a considerable amount in common between these two. My cottered crank is engraved with 'Olmo' but may have been manufactured by Magistroni (as are the chainrings). Headset and seatpost clamp are also marked as Olmo. Rear der is Gran Sport like yours, along with Campy front der and shifters. Headtube lugs are remarkably similar, I think, as are the chainrings. My Olmo has the giant wingnuts from that era on the front and rear hubs. Rims are steel Fiamme, not Nisi. Not sure on the hubs. Will try to get some photos posted, or can e-mail them to you if you prefer.

Forjador

Post the the pictures here, please! I think many of us would like to see.

Here are links to a few hasty snaps of the Olmo that I mentioned. Sorry for the poor quality...I tried shooting these with a cheap camera, and without wearing my glasses. Getting old is hell...

http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n95/Forjador/headtubelugs.jpg
http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n95/Forjador/seatlugs.jpg
http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n95/Forjador/forklugs.jpg
http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n95/Forjador/dropout.jpg
http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n95/Forjador/crank.jpg

Here are links to a few hasty snaps of the Olmo that I mentioned. Sorry for the poor quality...I tried shooting these with a cheap camera, and without wearing my glasses. Getting old is hell...

http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n95/Forjador/headtubelugs.jpg
http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n95/Forjador/seatlugs.jpg
http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n95/Forjador/forklugs.jpg
http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n95/Forjador/dropout.jpg
http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n95/Forjador/crank.jpg

I'm glad you posted the images. I really wanted to see them also. I noticed that the head lugs are not identical to trojanfan's, nor is the way that the seatstays meeting with the seatcluster area the same. My bike has the head lugs identical to trojanfan's, as well as the seatstay to seatcluster attachment, but trojanfan's seatcluster lug looks just like forjador's. All probably due to variations in the years they were produced. In any case, after owning this bike for 24 years, this is the best collection of images I have seen to date on this particular frame.

I think I'll start a new thread and post images of my--what I believe to be a 1947 Italian with Cambio Corsa dropouts. The decals say Wilier, but I have a suspicion that is not really the case as all of the Wilers of the same era have different headlugs. I'll probably do it tomorow after I take some photos.

Yes, thanks for the post, Forjador...the plot thickens, it's got some strong similarities to the subject, but some differences too. Guess his is not a 1964 Olmo Speciale, but....

Forjador,

Thanks for the pictures. A lot of similiarities, but some differences. How about a picture of the whole bike just for documentation sake. It looks really nice.

I saw this today on ebay (http://cgi.ebay.com/Bugatti56-Brooks-Campagnolo-Rivendell-Raleigh-Suntour_W0QQitemZ130033028329QQihZ003QQcategoryZ98084QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem)

How come no one thought this might be a Bugatti? :)

http://i13.ebayimg.com/02/i/08/7f/bb/99_1.JPG

The steering head lugs and seat post lugs are similar to mine, but the lugs next to the crank are plain like the other Olmo in a previous post.

If you want to strip the ugly paint it isnt very hard. You can by spray on striper in pep boys or walmart or whare ever. It wont look as good as a pro paint job but you can get ok results from spray it yourself stuff. The real restorer guys are all cringing right now I bet.