General Cycling Discussion - Informed my bike isn't ideal for riding on street

Interesting discussion today with a DMV officer. Seems he rides also and noticed my bike, a Specialized Allez, sitting next to my desk. He asked me if I was doing a local 150 ride coming up (which I'm not). He informed me that if I was, I would have to get rid of that seat (a Brooks) and get wider tires.

I told him I had no plans on removing the seat since it was the most comfortable seat I had ever ridden and what is wrong with the tires?

He told me they are too narrow for riding on roads and streets. They will cause too many flats. On last years ride, a lot of guys riding with "skinny" tires were getting flats. He just helped his daughter inlaw pick out a new bike and he made sure she got a real road bike with inch and a half tires. Tires like mine are useless for riding. (Of course, then he tells me this story of their last club ride and that she got a flat).

If he didn't have the power to yank my dealer's license I would have told him what I really thought of his opinion. He is also the second or third person to tell me to get rid of that "old fashioned" saddle and get a gel. Granted, the Brooks on the Allez looks out of place, it is a Champion Flyer, but it is comfortable.

I just can't figure out that if he has been riding as long as he says he has (twenty years) he has the idea that 700-23 is too small for a road bike.

the only time i flat my 700x23s is when they are not properly inflated. size is more comfort than durability-- i jump high curbs and go up stuff and generally tear the **** out of my tires.

So he was wrong. Is this the first know it all that you have met who was wrong? I run into them all the time.

How much do you weigh? Not a troll, seriously, I see some real fatasses riding 23s and it makes me want to scream, maybe this guy was trying to be helpful?

Yeah, I guess it is....hadn't really thought about that before.

Ok, it is as far as bikes go....cars, that's a different story.

What made it even stranger was that he was the second person today to tell me the tires on the bike are too small. The other guy questioned the tires ability to grip the road, especially when wet.

Not fat, not skinny. As of this morning I weighed in at 178lbs (5'7")

If the tires are so usless, then why do so many of us rude them without flats everyday?

I've long since ceased caring about what any one else thinks. If you like your Brooks saddle on your Specialised Allez (nice bike BTW), who am I to tell you to change it? I have 3,500 kms on those narrow, skinny tires this year and I have had only one flat and it was a rim tape failure. I guess I should look into getting them changed even though I have had 5 flats on my fat-tired Mongoose ATB this year with far fewer kilometres on it.

Must be the area I'm in.

Most commets are-- "You ride a bike to work? Did you lose your license on a DUI?"

So he was wrong. Is this the first know it all that you have met who was wrong? I run into them all the time.

They are wrong because they know it all. If you know it all, you never learn anything new.

Trust me - I'm right on this one.

That DMV creep does not have 23 years of experience, he has one year of experience repeated 23 times. Or one month of experience repeated 276 times. He is too inflexible to realize one size does not fit all. I am 196 lb. carry 65 lb bike and bags, go off roading on the way home and I do not need 1 1/2" tires. On the other hand an increased risk of rim pinches can be worth it if performance improves accordingly. If an MS 150 fund raiser is in the offing 700x23s are ok for someone under 150 lb. on a good road; let the sag fix the tubes.

Overconfidence and ignorance are a dangerous but common pair. Not surprising that he works for the DMV.

Why would you be scared of him yanking your dealers liscense because of your opinion? Even if you shared your opinions about what he said & thinks of your bike & he did not like what you had to say or how you said it how or why would that give this idiot authority to yank your liscense? Your opinion would not have anything to do with whether or not you keep a dealer liscense. The only thing that does is what ever regulations & guidelines you have to follow. I seriously doubt there is a regulation or guideline that says your opinions about what someone else says about your bike has to be the same as theirs no matter how much you may disagree with it.

Were it me, I would not have been afraid of anything & would have let him have it. Then if he had tried to take my liscense & I was not doing anything wrong that would cause me to lose it per the regulations & guidelines I'd have fought the SOB in court & had his ass fired.

I'm over 280 lbs and have put over 1500 miles on my 700X25s, and have had precisely two flats--one from a valve that failed, and the other a pinch flat. For the vast majority of riders 23s shouldn't be a problem at all.

I've long since ceased caring about what any one else thinks.
+1 Especially when it has anything to do with a bicycle.

SB

I hear it gets worse as you get older. :p
I'm 31 and already could care less for others silly opinions. I wonder how bad it will be at 40,50,60,70, or 80?
Perhaps I will end up being that old dude riding around shirtless in bibs.

People that think they know every thing really annoy those of us that do.
Just kidding.

You should have started a discussion about rolling resistance.

Opinions about saddles are just like rear ends: everybody has one. And, everyone except the guy sitting on a given saddle with a given rear is wrong.

Tires are different. There is strong evidence that a good 28mm or 32mm wide tire is far more durable and far less likely to have flats than the typical 23mm tire. The 23mm tire was designed for a pro racer that has a team car following with a spare wheel. A pro gets a flat, and thirty seconds later, he has got a new wheels. So, the typical 23mm tire is made to be as light as possible, not to resist flats.

Why would anyone who is not in a race use a 23mm tire? Well, the 99% of roadies who will never have a racing license enjoy LOOKING as if they have a racing license. And the bike industry explots that fact and puts 23mm tires on even a $600 bike that will never be within a hundred miles of a pro cyclist.

A well-made, correctly inflated 28mm tire is the best of both worlds. It rolls almost as well as a 23mm tire. The difference in your best time over a 20 mile circuit would vary only by seconds using a 28mm tire instead of a 23mm tire. And, the 28mm tire will do a better job of absorbing road shock, so you feel fresher at the end of an hour's ride. And, you will have far fewer flats. A "win, win, win" situation.

Except. Except the "Look like Lance" deal in the bike industry has resulting in designing some road bikes that have chainstays so close together, a 28mm tire barely fits. But, if a 28mm tires clears your chainstays, it is the best choice for commuting and recreational riding.

Interesting discussion today with a DMV officer... He informed me that if I was [riding on a 150 mile ride], I would have to get rid of that seat (a Brooks) and get wider tires.
...
If he didn't have the power to yank my dealer's license I would have told him what I really thought of his opinion. I just can't figure out that if he has been riding as long as he says he has (twenty years) he has the idea that 700-23 is too small for a road bike.
I can't figure out why you are concerned in the slightest with what a "DMV officer" (Dept of Motor Vehicles?) says about your bicycle equipment. What power to yank what dealer license and what connection is there at all to your personal bicycle equipment?

How much do you weigh? Not a troll, seriously, I see some real fatasses riding 23s and it makes me want to scream, maybe this guy was trying to be helpful?

Hey! I resemble that remark! :eek: :D

DMV's power over a car dealership is their ability to cut you a break if you short-change a vehicle inspection. The franchise license can't be pulled. The inspection license is vital to the business and these guys have more power than the highway patrol. (My day job is a service advisor in a Ford dealership; my nights and weekends are running my photo studio).

All the comments at work have died off, but when it got out that my bike cost almost 1K, there was a lot of "you know how many bikes you can get at Wal-Mart for that?".


The OP was to get ideas about the tires, though honestly, I don't suffer many flats. In the past couple of months, I've had one flat on the road bike and one flat on the MTB. I

....and I thought it might be interesting to see other's opinions and/or how they handle people giving them advice.

I'd say it was well-intentioned advice which happened to contradict your actual experience. I'd thank him, point out that your setup was good for you, just as his was good for him, and move on to discussing some less controversial cycling issues.

Paul

DMV's power over a car dealership is their ability to cut you a break if you short-change a vehicle inspection. The franchise license can't be pulled. The inspection license is vital to the business and these guys have more power than the highway patrol. (My day job is a service advisor in a Ford dealership; my nights and weekends are running my photo studio).
Oh you work at an Auto dealership. The OP was not clear. I still can't figure out how your different opinions on bicycle equipment becomes a factor in the wielding of the DMV's power. If you don't want to offend him over his bicycling advice, just nod your head in agreement then do what you want. Just like dealing with a difficult significant other who really does wield significant power.

Why would anyone who is not in a race use a 23mm tire? Well, the 99% of roadies who will never have a racing license enjoy LOOKING as if they have a racing license. And the bike industry explots that fact and puts 23mm tires on even a $600 bike that will never be within a hundred miles of a pro cyclist.


Sounds like someone has been drinking from Grant Petersen's water bottle.

If I had a problem with frequent flats, I might consider a wider tire. I don't.
If I had a problem with feeling beaten up after a ride, I might consider a wider tire. I don't.

23mm tires work just fine for me, thank you. If you want to use a wider tire, great. Just don't presume that those of us with years of experience don't know what we are doing and why we are doing it.

Why would anyone who is not in a race use a 23mm tire?

Because they work.

Because I don't feel "beat up" after my rides.

Because I don't get many flats (one every 1-2000 miles running Michelin Pro Race 2's).

Because they're generally more available than 28's.

And, because some of us ride uphill. This might not be an issue in the flatlands of Houston, but on one of my rides earlier this month, I climbed 12,000 feet in 107 miles (and last month I climbed 16,000 feet in 125 miles on the Death Ride (http://www.deathride.com)). When I'm climbing that much, I don't want any excess weight on the bike, or on me.

Just cross the guy off your "people I actually listen to when they are talking" list. End of problem.

Overconfidence and ignorance are a dangerous but common pair. Not surprising that he works for the DMV.

I agree, police, or any type of geovernment agents, seem to have the least knowledge when it comes to bikes. But they sure aren't afraid to share their poor opinions.

Your DMV dude is full of beans. My road bike is a Specialized Allez Elite, and while it's true that my Townie3 sees more miles, the Allez has no problems on the road. In fact, the last flat I got was months ago while I was riding the Townie, and the flat wasn't even on the bike. It was on my canoe trailer when I picked up a roofing nail.:mad: Easy fix with a spare tube.:)

In fact a small six-pack cooler makes a pretty good jackstand for a canoe trailer.:)

I don't know of any bike tires that are roofing nail proof.;)

.

Tires are different. There is strong evidence that a good 28mm or 32mm wide tire is far more durable and far less likely to have flats than the typical 23mm tire.



Alan's post is very good, i also prefer a 28mm tire.

I rode the BRAG this summer, and saw all kinds of bikes, from Wal Mart junkers to high end full carbon deals.

Everybody made it, sooner or later, so if it works for you, ride on!

Unrelated but kinda reminds me of a client comment the other day.

We had just setup this internet filtering appliance at this office. The owners machine accidentally was picking up the wrong group and was getting blocked as well.

He informed us he had been "surfing the net for 30 years and never had this kind of trouble before"

"Wow 30 years?" I said. "Do you know Al Gore? Because I thought I heard he invented the net while in office."

Pretty funny.

-D

My experience is that the biggest factor in flats is how much glass is on the road.
The second factor is the quality of the tire (including thread count and tire construction).
The third factor is tire pressure - high pressure tires are less likely to flat because they shed glass easier.
The fourth factor is tire size. For thicker tires, it is less likely the glass will fully penetrate the tire but narrower tires make a smaller track and are less likely to roll over glass. So a thicker tire may balance off a narrower tire.

I average one flat per 8,000mi on 700x23c @130psi. Keep in mind I weight around 230, and can be carrying up to 80lbs of cargo in my messenger bag....then the 17lb bike, and you have over 320lbs on those tires. That's far into clyde territory, and I ride very choppy pavement. Broken glass, metal pieces, wood, all kinds of debris at times.

All you need is a nice tough tire, and quality but generic tubes. By generic I mean they are made as cheaply as possible, but are still consistent in quality. I like Kenda tubes myself. I can get 10 of them for $30.

Actually I go through chains faster than tubes..

Tires are different. There is strong evidence that a good 28mm or 32mm wide tire is far more durable and far less likely to have flats than the typical 23mm tire. The 23mm tire was designed for a pro racer that has a team car following with a spare wheel. A pro gets a flat, and thirty seconds later, he has got a new wheels. So, the typical 23mm tire is made to be as light as possible, not to resist flats.



Very true, however there are durable flat-resistant variants out now for 23c tire users. Mostly brought about by the "roadbike=racebike" design mantra that is the norm, these tires will fit on a bike with narrow stays. I use the Serfas Combi, an all-weather folding tire with pretty good flat protection. My previous tire was the Serfas Seca wire bead...and that tire was a trooper. I actually wore that tire to the threads, and only had one flat on them, ever.

As for ride quality...I've never had an issue with high pressure tires...but that's all I run....my folder and mountain bike are running 80psi when being used for road, and my roadbike is running 130psi. They all seem to ride about the same. I've been of the impression wheels make a bigger difference in ride than the tire...it may be totally off-base, but it's just my observation between 3 wheelsets on the same bike.

Tires are different. There is strong evidence that a good 28mm or 32mm wide tire is far more durable and far less likely to have flats than the typical 23mm tire.


Where is this evidence? Logically, I would think that the fatter tire would be less prone to pinch flats (more deformation required to pinch) but more prone to punctures (wider contact patch) at a given pressure.

Also, why would a fat tire have a smoother ride if the pressures were equal?


One benefit of the 23mm - more aero.