There is a cropped image of the new Dahon Curve SL in A to B magazine. It looks like a cross between the Sweet Pea and Mu SL. Unfortunately, you could not see the drivetrain...

From A to B: "Early reports suggest the bike rides and folds well, producing a package about the same length and height as the Brompton, but wider".

What with the DT Mini and Curve SL, competition in the ultra-small folder category is hotting up...

Dahon Curve: Compact, light 16" folding bike.

Commuter bike: Folds quickly, light and small enough to fit into a shopping bag. Revised frame geometry is reassuringly stable. A custom SL version of the Sturmey-Archer 5 speed hub provides all the gears you are likely to need to commute.

If anyone is making it over to Friedrichshafen, perhaps they could have a go on the new Curve...

Are they ERTO 305s?

The only thing that I need to know about the new Curve SL is whether the frame is aluminum or steel. I could not find anything on the internet about that fact. That is the most important thing about any bike is the frame make-up (at least to me).

Ehh, I'm sure it's fine as a commuter. No official stats or pricing yet. Looks kind of clunky, and I assume that like other Dahons, the fold still exposes the chain (get that bag!) and it rides like a wet noodle.

Maybe it's just me, but I'd much rather that Dahon improves its existing product lines and just get everything good and tight, rather than revising, like, everything every year....

sooo what wet noodle have you ridden lately ... The Curve will follow the design trend of the very stiff MU in a smaller package and FINALLY replaces the two other 16 inch offerings which in my opinion got really old over the years ...

Of course if they dont change anything than its back to a wet noodle of a couple years back .. I rather have fresh new designs which improves the breed. Although Dahons competitors who are a little slow at times might not like that all too much ..lol

Popcorn ready ...

just that I go through a lot of dahon bikes as a dealer and I kinda get tired of that crap of NOT to make the bikes better ....... baffles me. Let me say this , if the evolution of Dahon bikes would have stopped 2 years ago I wouldnt sell them today ( dont like wet noodles myself)

Thor

The only thing that I need to know about the new Curve SL is whether the frame is aluminum or steel.

Almost certainly hydroformed Alu...

Definitely aluminium frame.

sooo what wet noodle have you ridden lately ... The Curve will follow the design trend of the very stiff MU in a smaller package and FINALLY replaces the two other 16 inch offerings which in my opinion got really old over the years ...
Dahon Mariner, specifically. "Lately" as in "yesterday." :D

Now, just to be clear, "wet noodleness" does not necessarily mean "awful," as the flexier frame soaks up some of the bumps. But it will slow you down, and you really can't pull back on the handlebars without stressing the handlepost which increases the odds of a frame / handlepost failure. So it's inadvisable to stand and hammer, especially uphills.

As a non-dealer, I don't ride as many Dahons as you. ;) But I've been riding a Swift for the last few months; it's packed up right now, so to get some exercise I hopped on my Mariner for a few miles yesterday. Night and day. The Dahon is smoother at the seat but rougher on the hands, significantly slower, and nowhere near as solid a ride as the Swift.

I assume the flexiness is a design issue, due to the hinge and the long handlepost, as I've had several Dahon dealers (including Gaerlan) tell me there's no point in, say, swapping out the handlepost on my Mariner (or even upgrading to a Speed Pro!) to get a stiffer and faster ride. IMO the Dahon's flexiness is just a compromise for the smaller and more efficient fold of a Dahon, compared to the stiffer folders / collapsibles like the Swift, Bike Friday, Moulton or Airnimal.



just that I go through a lot of dahon bikes as a dealer and I kinda get tired of that crap of NOT to make the bikes better ....... baffles me. Let me say this , if the evolution of Dahon bikes would have stopped 2 years ago I wouldnt sell them today
I have no problem with Dahon improving their products, I think it's great that they do not "rest on their laurels," so to speak. However, I am not exactly thrilled by their usage of proprietary parts, which are difficult to upgrade and, in some instances, repair after a few years.

And while I think it's good for them to offer bikes for many needs, I find the ever-changing lineup to be confusing. Keeping in mind that I'm an end-user and not a marketing expert, I'd just think it's better to streamline their product lines, keep the model names a little more consistent (unless low sales necessitates a drop), and maybe index by year. For example, it seemed odd that they either renamed the Boardwalk to a Speed, or dropped the Boardwalk D7 and made a cheaper Speed, or... what did they do again, exactly? :D

According to the Dahon forum, the Curve SL will not be available in the US...

Handlepost?

Dahon Curve: Compact, light 16" folding bike.

Commuter bike: Folds quickly, light and small enough to fit into a shopping bag. Revised frame geometry is reassuringly stable. A custom SL version of the Sturmey-Archer 5 speed hub provides all the gears you are likely to need to commute.

Interesting indeed!

I like the fact they are going to use the SA-5 Sprinter hub on a 16' inch wheel folder. I wonder where this leave the Presto Lite because that was a good bike. You can tell they put better quality components on that folder than the Sweet Pea which should never have been released. It goes to show you that Dahon is still thinking when it comes to the 16' wheel commuter. The company hasn't had a 5 speed 16' wheel bike in about 10 years! Overall, it doesn't look like a bad folder.

I hope they use a larger rear cog for that bike instead of the 13T to give you a lower direct drive.

I also hope they include a chain guard like the Piccolo, Presto and Presto Lite.

My Mu SL frame is very, very stiff. The stem flexes, but less than other Dahons. If you direct the force into the cranks rather than the handlebars, it's at least as efficient as a road bike.

I am not sure about that statement about the curve sl being not available in the states..... lets see about that ... I know that there are several options made.. like a 3 speed and a 5 speed... Now if Dahon would make one with a nexus 8 speed I would really go crazy
lol
give them a little time. I am sure it will arrive in spring 07

Thor

I am not sure about that statement about the curve sl being not available in the states..... lets see about that ... I know that there are several options made.. like a 3 speed and a 5 speed... Now if Dahon would make one with a nexus 8 speed I would really go crazy
lol
give them a little time. I am sure it will arrive in spring 07

I hope so. It is frustrating when particular models (usually the one you want) are available in other countries, but not your own!

I am not sure about that statement about the curve sl being not available in the states..... lets see about that ... I know that there are several options made.. like a 3 speed and a 5 speed... Now if Dahon would make one with a nexus 8 speed I would really go crazy
lol
give them a little time. I am sure it will arrive in spring 07

Thor

The Curve SL should replace the Piccolo and Sweet Pea. I still think the company should keep the Presto Lite but there really is no need to go with the Nexus 8 Speed. You have enough gears with the SA-5 and all you would have to do is lower the gearing by using a larger cog. Yes, you give up one higher gear but this bike really isn't for touring or long commutes. It's a multimode commuter and a 3 speed would be fine.

For a better view:

http://www.messefn.de/download/eurobike/bilder_aussteller/2_curve_sl_unfold_300.jpg

Very nice blown up picture. Thanks

I'm going to put those same tires on my Presto when the time comes. Very nice looking folder. I don't expect that folder to sell less than $400.00 USD. The only thing missing from that bike is a Brooks Champion flyer or the Dahon suspension seat post.

....there really is no need to go with the Nexus 8 Speed. You have enough gears with the SA-5 and all you would have to do is lower the gearing by using a larger cog. Yes, you give up one higher gear but this bike really isn't for touring or long commutes. It's a multimode commuter and a 3 speed would be fine.

FWIW.... using Sheldon Brown's Gear Calculator (http://sheldonbrown.com/gears/internal.html) and using a 50t chainring to a 15t cog (numbers pulled completely out of thin air), the Archer 5 Speed Sprinter produces "gear inches" of

67.3
56.8
44.9
35.8
29.9

whereas a Shimano Nexus 8 speed produces gear inches of:

72.5
63.7
54.9
44.9
38.2
33.6
28.9
23.6

The shimano's 2nd through 7th gives basicly the same range as the SA's 1st through 5th. All you get with the Nexus8 is a lower low and a higher high -- but not that much in either case.

NOTE: this will be more meaningful if you plug in the actual tire size, chainring size and rear cog size.

I understand the comment regarding the need for an 8-speed drivetrain. But after a knee injury and a new emphasis on spinning in a relatively hilly area, I would love a little commuter with wide 8-speed gearing.

Look at the favorable reviews that the Downtube Mini has ben receiving. This cut fit that niche but also include an adjustable stem (that the Mini lacks).

Just curious, anyone have an idea of the relative costs of a 3, 5, and 8 speed sturmey archer internal hubs?

...anyone have an idea of the relative costs of a 3, 5, and 8 speed sturmey archer internal hubs?

Froogle.Google says:

Shimano 3 speed -- $60
Sram 5 speed -- $125
Shimano 7 speed -- $135
Sturmy 8 speed -- $143

Rohloff 14 Speed -- if you have to ask, you can't afford it

I couldn't find pricing for anything but the Sturmy 8 speed.

FWIW.... using Sheldon Brown's Gear Calculator (http://sheldonbrown.com/gears/internal.html) and using a 50t chainring to a 15t cog (numbers pulled completely out of thin air), the Archer 5 Speed Sprinter produces "gear inches" of

67.3
56.8
44.9
35.8
29.9

whereas a Shimano Nexus 8 speed produces gear inches of:

72.5
63.7
54.9
44.9
38.2
33.6
28.9
23.6

The shimano's 2nd through 7th gives basicly the same range as the SA's 1st through 5th. All you get with the Nexus8 is a lower low and a higher high -- but not that much in either case.

NOTE: this will be more meaningful if you plug in the actual tire size, chainring size and rear cog size.

Good observation.

My Piccolo and Presto used the 48T ring and 13T cog and I suspect Dahon will use the same effective combination with the Curve. My numbers below are more reflective of possible gearing using Sheldon's calculator.

Sprinter 5 speed with 48T ring and 13T cog

74.5
62.9
49.7
39.7
33.1

The range is perfect! The 49 inch direct drive is exactly the gear range I found perfect for my Presto and Piccolo. The Presto/Piccolo both have direct drive at 49 inches and I can ride in that gear for hours without getting tired. I did Bike New York on my Piccolo (40+miles) with no problem. In addition, the low of 33.1 is almost as low as my Jamis Aurora touring bike so that should get you up most hills.

However, if you really wanted a real low gear bike and were willing to sacrifice one top gear, a 16t cog gives you the following.

Sprinter 5 Speed with 48T ring and 16T cog

60.6
51.1
40.4
32.3
26.9

Fourth gear is almost perfect at 51.1 and you can ride that gear all day long. The bottom gear at 26.9 is so low, you'll be able to climb up most hills with no problem. You're not going to do loaded touring with this bike so the gearing is just fine and more than enough for commuting.

I changed the gearing on my Vitesse (which uses the Sprinter) so that 1st gear is 32.4 inches. That gear is so low, I hardly use it during any ride and can climb most small hills in 2nd gear.


These are the figures for the Nexus 8
with 48T ring and 16T cog

65.2
57.3
49.4
40.4
34.4
30.2
26.0
21.3


It's not bad at all. You would ride the bike in 6th gear and the 21.3 inch gear is so low, it's now perfect for loaded touring! Somehow, I don't think you'll want to do loaded touring on this bike which is why the Sprinter 5 is just fine.

The 8sp hubs are also heavier, important on a bike you are going to carry.

Update (from the Dahon forum)the Curve D3 is goibg to be available in th US

Froogle.Google says:

Shimano 3 speed -- $60
Sram 5 speed -- $125
Shimano 7 speed -- $135
Sturmy 8 speed -- $143

Rohloff 14 Speed -- if you have to ask, you can't afford it

I couldn't find pricing for anything but the Sturmy 8 speed.

Rohloff 14 spd is around $1k at Harris Cyclery if I remember correctly. The Schlumpf mountain drive is also pretty pricey (goes into the BB, though).

I looked into the S-A 5spd hub since you can get it with an OLD = 114mm for an old English 3spd. S-A e-mailed me to say it's available by ordering through the LBS, but I haven't gotten around to asking for a quote from my LBS. If anyone gets a price, please post it.

..

"...It seems like many dealers are now stocking the Curve D3.
For example, the handlebars needed to be twisted just right so that the brake levelers wouldn't prevent the wheels from coming together (and the handlebars were finicky about twisting) and all the clamps would spin around once opened, making it tedious to reclamp them. Also, the brake cables always seemed to be in the way.
-Once folded it looked loose, like it would fall apart, but it actually stayed together quite well. However, I thought it was really too big (about 13"x25"x29" according to spec).
-At $399 it is cheaper than I expected. If I can't get a Strida 5 from taiwan then I may buy it." -makeinu

As the new owner of the last of the Piccolo model, I am glad that I bought it-in spite of the same handlebars folding problems experienced on the newer Curve. The folded package is the same for both at the above dimentions. The steel frame is fine when I decide to change something on the bike through some sort of cold pressing method by expanding or contracting the dropouts. Aluminum would do if I rode in wet weather (which I do not). I do not think you will go wrong once you get used to folding and riding it's unique means of handling. And the price is so reasonable. You can't go wrong here.

I thought the gearing was too low....
You may be able to replace the front chainring. Ask the shop about it.


-Folding the bike was not as easy as I thought it would be....
A little practice and it should fold fast. It's not as nice of a fold as a Brompton but it shouldn't take all that much more time. The only hitch is that if you take it on a train or bus, you should be careful that no one brushes up against the chain, as that will ruin their clothes.

It seems like many dealers are now stocking the Curve D3.

I stopped by Light Street Cycles in Baltimore yesterday and they had one in the display window. I took it for a test ride. . . .

The pictures seem to show something on the front of the head tube that might be a Klickfix attachment, or might just be my imagination. Did you notice anything of the kind? It's not mentioned in the specs.

You kids with your gear calculators and slide rules!
It's cute - definitely would look nice in skinnier tyres. The big apples will offer a nicer ride of cource, but they make it look like a dolls bike. The rims look pretty high end - and what's that - a Brompton-style luggage clip welded onto the front. It's clear what they're trying to do there eh?

Ooh look - they do them in fire-engine red. Cute!
http://www.dahon.com/images/bikes/large/unfold/curved31.jpg

The 07 Hammerhead, in baby blue is nice (now called 'Wobbegong') Even the top tube is bent now. I wonder when they'll hit the stores?
http://www.dahon.com/images/bikes/large/unfold/wobbegong.jpg
(not seeming popular these minibikes in the UK - only seen one orange one since they launched.

Full-size wise - the new cadenza looks interesting. Eccentric Hub? LockJaw™ Frame clamping? This looks rather appealing for the more conservative 'must have 26" wheels people.
http://www.dahon.com/intl/cadenza.htm
http://www.dahon.com/images/bikes/large/unfold/cadenza.jpg

Sorry to threadjack; I guess there hasn't been much discussion of the 07 models here yet.

Update -
Sounds like Dahon is listening to its customers, and potential ones...
They will now be carrying the Curve SL in the U.S.!

http://www.dahon.com/us/curvesl.htm

http://www.dahon.com/images/bikes/large/folded/curvesl.jpg

I like the 2007 Cadenza (despite it being aluminum). I'm waiting to see how the Lockjaw mechanism works, how it withstands wear and tear, and how much trouble it is to fold. I'm already resigned to having to carry around a loose hex key. There's speculation that Dahon may release this as a frameset last time I checked the Dahon forums. Hope that's the case.

looks like this is true ( carrying the SL version as well ) which is indeed very nice....
just as i have unpacked my red D3 .... (red fits better to the boat ...lol )
rode it around for a bit and I am impressed ... a real nice improvement over the older 16 inch offerings

oh by the way .... it looks like the D3 ( red 3 speed) comes with SKS fenders and carrier mounted.... which make this bike an even bigger bargain !!!!

Cadenza is a cool frame with lots of features which will make it a winner. I am expecting frames , but have not seen a delivery date yet. The complete bike will be march ... I susect the frame to be a month or two behind that

thor

Thor

Is there any word on which frames Dahon will be selling? I am interested in a Mu XL frameset.

the only frames which were in discussion are the full size frames....
Cadenza ... I am hoping for Flo and Fuego
and the new road bike frame is really a shoe in for selling seperate.
For whatever its not going to happen soon, naturally Dahon will sell complet bikes first and frames later.
In the case of the Cadenza the price is soo attractive that it makes sense to buy the whole bike and replace stuff ...

thor

In the case of the Cadenza the price is soo attractive that it makes sense to buy the whole bike and replace stuff ...
No kidding as I just double-checked the price of a complete bike! :eek:

looks like this is true ( carrying the SL version as well ) which is indeed very nice....
just as i have unpacked my red D3 .... (red fits better to the boat ...lol )
rode it around for a bit and I am impressed ... a real nice improvement over the older 16 inch offerings

oh by the way .... it looks like the D3 ( red 3 speed) comes with SKS fenders and carrier mounted.... which make this bike an even bigger bargain !!!!
Is there any way to get this thing to roll properly (that is, on both wheels) while folded? All those great carrying options are half useless when you can't load up the carrier while rolling it around the store.

BTW, who thinks the Curve SL is worth the premium over the D3? The D3 is much cheaper than I expected. I mean, there is the 5 speed hub instead of 3 speed, the lighter frame, and the XL over Deluxe components. How much better are the XL components over Deluxe?

Vid on youtube with the Curve SL (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z9Abf-heTaI)

Vid on youtube with the Curve SL (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z9Abf-heTaI)

Good Vid.

However, did you notice her saddle was too low? I find Dahon owners tend to ride with the saddle too low and the woman in the Vid did not get good leg extention. The saddle should be one inch higher than the handlebar. In the Vid, the bars looked about 4 inches lower!

Hey Steve,

In your earlier 16" Dahon review (Presto), you noted a significant performance deterioration over your other folders. Was this just a gearing issue, or do you feel it was attributable to efficiency losses? This is an interesting physics question. Presumably, if your knees are centered over the pedal axle, the seat height is correct, and the cockpit is comfy but has you down a bit, the only major factor is wheel size (and rolling resistance). Some tour on 305s. The Birdy forum has posts indicating that (assuming his cyclo computer was correctly calibrated), he was averageing higher speeds on his 355s (on the Birdy) than on his high end road bike (both similarly equipped).

If the tires are cushy enough, it is possible that one could tour on something like the Curve SL and not fall off the pack of friends along for the ride. What do you think?

Hey Steve,

In your earlier 16" Dahon review (Presto), you noted a significant performance deterioration over your other folders. Was this just a gearing issue, or do you feel it was attributable to efficiency losses? This is an interesting physics question. Presumably, if your knees are centered over the pedal axle, the seat height is correct, and the cockpit is comfy but has you down a bit, the only major factor is wheel size (and rolling resistance). Some tour on 305s. The Birdy forum has posts indicating that (assuming his cyclo computer was correctly calibrated), he was averageing higher speeds on his 355s (on the Birdy) than on his high end road bike (both similarly equipped).

If the tires are cushy enough, it is possible that one could tour on something like the Curve SL and not fall off the pack of friends along for the ride. What do you think?

Alot of questions here. I didn't understand your major comment regarding performance deterioration but I'll my best.

I don't think the Curve LS is cushy enough and will need either a Brooks Champion flyer with springs or a suspension seat post. Trust me when I tell you, the 16' inch wheel folder needs some kind of suspension or you better have super smooth roads. Why do you think Brompton and Birdy have suspension?

As for keeping up with a pack of frinds, it depends on what kind of riders and bikes they have. The Presto can reach 12 mph in direct drive on a straight surface. Riding in 3rd gear will bring you up to 15-16 mph! That's all! The Curve has the same gearing as the Presto and Piccolo so expect the average time to be about the same. A "C" group ride will be about the best you can hang onto. If your friends are riding hybrids or MTB, you should have no trouble keeping up with them.

The performance losses come from the internal hub. There is only 1 efficient gear (2nd) in a three speed hub and you'll feel a huge performance loss with 3rd gear. The Presto wasn't any more inefficient than my Piccolo.

I'm kinda sad they dropped the Presto Lite.

So, in your estimation, the primary problem is that it's under geared. Perfect! Thanks.

so light st cycles has one in the store, cool ill have to wander up there soon and look at it. I use my piccalo on the b&a trail which is by my house primarly for exercise so i get a workout out of the three speeds,. that said i am interested in a 6 speed.

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looks like this is true ( carrying the SL version as well ) which is indeed very nice....
just as i have unpacked my red D3 .... (red fits better to the boat ...lol )
rode it around for a bit and I am impressed ... a real nice improvement over the older 16 inch offerings

oh by the way .... it looks like the D3 ( red 3 speed) comes with SKS fenders and carrier mounted.... which make this bike an even bigger bargain !!!!

So how much does the D3 actually weigh in total (with fender, carrier, pedals, seat, etc)? I've ridden/lifted one so I know how it feels, but I'm trying to put the weight in perspective.

Curve D3 for US$359 + FREE shipping...

http://brandscycle.com/itemdetails.cfm?catalogId=39&id=7884

I just got a Curve SL yesterday. Going out for a spin soon.

The SA 5 speed hub shifts fine - not quite as silky smooth as a Nexus, but far better to deal with than a derailleur, IMO. It helps to briefly pause your pedalling when shifting but as with any hub, shifting while stopped is easy. The gearing is plenty high enough for me. 1st gear is great for riding on sidewalk with pedestrians so I can keep spinning while going slow. I could imagine it being a bit tough going up a steep hill, but a steady climb at moderate grade is fine. For speed, 5th is plenty high - even 4 seems faster than I'm usually going to need. And the increments between are not too large.

The handling is way better than I expected. The Big Apple tires really do provide significant suspension. The bumps in the road have felt about the same to me as on a full size bike. I feel surprisingly little twitchyness. I love the nimbleness of it.

More to come....

I like the 2007 Cadenza (despite it being aluminum). I'm waiting to see how the Lockjaw mechanism works, how it withstands wear and tear, and how much trouble it is to fold. I'm already resigned to having to carry around a loose hex key. There's speculation that Dahon may release this as a frameset last time I checked the Dahon forums. Hope that's the case.

sb11, have you added an '07 Cadenza to your stable?
If so, how is the "semi-folder" experience?

sb11, have you added an '07 Cadenza to your stable?
If so, how is the "semi-folder" experience?
Hey mk, not yet. Reports about this bike are really slow in coming; I want to know more about the durability of the lockjaw.

Besides, my summer project is overhauling a Peugeot mixte I found on the side of the road. I suppose I looked odd rolling it along side me while riding my Brompton home. Who cares, though. I got a free mixte! :)

A mixte with the sloping toptube, like
http://derbyking.com/Detail/?n=71
?
Gotta love the ride with cromo forks.

I agree, no reviews of the new Cadenza, or of the Lockjaw hinge. The new Cadenza is tempting (as in move all the parts on the M.K'denza to the new frame) .... but in each rehash of the an '07 Cadenza scenario, I quickly come to the fact that after folding/unfolding several times a day in mixed mode Tokyo, I would soon be cursing the hex key.