Classic & Vintage - Campy Records brake: should be replaced with dual pivots?

For some years now (since I began to ride bikes with cantis mostly) I've been feeling that the Campagnolo Record (47-57mm reach) brakes of my old Romani don't perform so well. Should things improve by replacing the blocks or should I (reluctantly) replace them with some newer double pivot calipers?

Well, try to replace the brake pads first. Record sidepull brakes were really the major thing that initiated the move away from centerpull to sidepull brakes. Centerpulls might still be slightly stronger, but Record sidepulls work very well.

That said, modern long-reach (47-57mm) dual-pivot sidepull brakes will be noticably better, and you can get a set for around $30 at some places (e.g., Nashbar). So if you want to switch brakes, I'd recommend switching to long-reach dual-pivot sidepulls. Then you could keep the same cable housing setup as your current brakes, and not worry about putting front and rear cable hangers or any such things.

Harris Cyclery has the salmon Koolstop blocks to fit the Campy NR holders if you decide to keep them.

New pads will help, Kool Stop or similar. As the dim. you cited are by today's standards long reach, you will have to measure the position of the pads on your calppers to determine if you need "long" reach brakes. Even the garden variety dual pivot calipers of today are much better in tolerance than brakes of yesteryear for the most part, top tier stuff excluded. If "new" Record brakes will fit they will stop better than the classic Campagnolo brakes wil, one can't overcome quality, physics and new pads. To be cool wait for the Skeletons.

For some years now (since I began to ride bikes with cantis mostly) I've been feeling that the Campagnolo Record (47-57mm reach) brakes of my old Romani don't perform so well. Should things improve by replacing the blocks or should I (reluctantly) replace them with some newer double pivot calipers?
A caliper brake system consists of 4 parts:

•The levers
•The cables
•The calipers
•The brake shoes

All of these parts are upgradable. Many people think first of replacing the calipers, but, in fact, this is the least likely part to make any real difference. A caliper is a simple leverage unit, and there's not all that much to one.

In the case of older bikes, it can be difficult to find a new caliper that will even fit.

The other 3 parts are much more likely to yield real improvement.

•The levers

Older designs had the cables exit up from the front of the brake levers, arching over the
handlebars. The newer style, where the cable exits out the back of the lever and runs under the handlebar tape is referred to as "aero" because it eliminates the wind drag of the exposed cables.

Aero levers are generally a major improvement over the older type. The pivots are located differently, making it possible to get fairly serious braking from the position where the rider's hand is on top of the lever hood. Traditional levers would permit the use of this position for gentle deceleration only.

Additionally, the better aero levers have better internal cable routing, so there's less cable friction. I particularly recommend the Shimano Tiagra units we sell for $39.95, including cables. See: http://sheldonbrown.com/harris/brakes.html#leversdrop

•The cables

Older cables used metal-to-metal contact as the inner cable slid through the spiral-wound steel housing. Lubricant was by grease, if the mechanic was conscientious.

Modern cable housings have a Teflon or similar lining. The better inner cables are stainless steel, and are "die drawn" to make them smoother. The result is greatly reduced cable friction, so more of your finger strength is transmitted to the caliper, rather than wasted overcoming cable friction.

•The brake shoes

Modern high-performance brake shoes also make a considerable difference. The very best is the ugly salmon-colored material originated by Scott-Mathauser, and now sold under the Kool Stop name. See: http://sheldonbrown.com/harris/brakeshoes.html

All the best,

Sheldon

P.S.: If you decide to switch, I have a pair of dual-pivot Shimano 105s that I will trade you for the Campy calipers (depending on condition).

Take care,

-Kurt

P.S.: If you decide to switch, I have a pair of dual-pivot Shimano 105s that I will trade you for the Campy calipers (depending on condition).
Probably won't work unless your 105's are "standard" (i.e., long) 47-57mm-reach calipers. I'm not sure Shimano has ever made long-reach dual-pivots under the 105 name.

Btw, very good big-picture advice from Sheldon, as usual.

P.S.: If you decide to switch, I have a pair of dual-pivot Shimano 105s that I will trade you for the Campy calipers (depending on condition).

Take care,

-Kurt
Somehow I (and all the rest of us) knew you would make such an offer. We should nickname you "The Campy Hound." :D

I am still pondering why my short-reach Campagnolo sidepulls perform so poorly, even with aero levers and KoolStop salmon pads from Sheldon. My same-generation Galli sidepulls are far better.

Campag brakes have quite strong springs...

My stock Chorus Monoplaner, single pivot, are plenty strong for my 150 lbs. They use the same pads as NR also. I second Sheldon's advice. Try new cables/casings and pads first. I wouldn't change the levers until I did those. Good luck

Tim

Probably won't work unless your 105's are "standard" (i.e., long) 47-57mm-reach calipers. I'm not sure Shimano has ever made long-reach dual-pivots under the 105 name.

EDITED according to Sheldon's info: Well, my 105s are marked 47-57mm. See photo.



Somehow I (and all the rest of us) knew you would make such an offer. We should nickname you "The Campy Hound." :D

You're more then welcome to :D



I am still pondering why my short-reach Campagnolo sidepulls perform so poorly, even with aero levers and KoolStop salmon pads from Sheldon. My same-generation Galli sidepulls are far better.

Would you like to trade for some Dia-Compes or Suntours? ;)

-Kurt

Well, thanks for all the interest and responses. I've already tried the housing, inox cables and aero levers things (Shimano 105 that replaced the original Campagnolo levers when the gum hoods tore with age and use -maybe the problem lies here ;)) I'll replace the blocks but I think I'll bear with the old sidepulls -in spite of developing my forearm muscles to match my legs- and won't go the way of dual pivots. As I said in my first post, perhaps I've got used to the braking power of old mid-profile canti's and these Campy are working fine.

Probably won't work unless your 105's are "standard" (i.e., long) 47-57mm-reach calipers. I'm not sure Shimano has ever made long-reach dual-pivots under the 105 name.
The "standard" reach for 105 calipers, as for most "road" calipers made in the last 20 years is 39-49 mm.

It would very good idea to eliminate the confusing and meaningless terms "standard reach" and "normal reach" from your vocabulary. Those terms convey no useful information, an only serve to create mystery.

See: http://sheldonbrown.com/gloss_ra-e.html#reach


Well, from the center of the mounting post to the very top of the brake slot is 50mm, roughly 63mm when measuered to the bottom of the slot.
105 Dual pivots only come in the 39-49 mm reach range, but simillar models do exist in the 47-57 mm reach range.

Shimano calipers geneally have the reach range stamped on the back, as shown in this photo:

For illustrations on how to measure the range, see the Bicycle Glossary link above.

http://sheldonbrown.com/images/caliper-reach-markings.jpg

Sheldon "Numbers, Not Adjectives" Brown

+--------------------------------------------+
| If it can't be expressed in figures, |
| it is not science; it is opinion. |
| --Robert A. Heinlein |
+--------------------------------------------+

105 Dual pivots only come in the 39-49 mm reach range, but simillar models do exist in the 47-57 mm reach range.

For illustrations on how to measure the range, see the Bicycle Glossary link above.

Thanks for the link, Sheldon.

One thing though - these calipers are marked 47-57mm in back, but are clearly labled "Shimano 105" on their front arms.

-Kurt

P.S.: If you decide to switch, I have a pair of dual-pivot Shimano 105s that I will trade you for the Campy calipers (depending on condition).

Take care,

-Kurt

How about a Patent 71 Campy N.R. rear derailer for the brakes?

How about a Patent 71 Campy N.R. rear derailer for the brakes?

Sorry - already have two NR RDs.

-Kurt

How about a Patent 71 Campy N.R. rear derailer for the brakes?

Like this one?

Sorry to bring back this old thread, but I think an update is due in case it might be of some help to anyone. Well, as I said I was reluctant to get rid of those nice calipers so I went the route of new cables, housings, aero levers and blocks (Fibrax). Braking power has now improved ten times, so much so that the possibility of blocking the rear wheel in a turn has become of some concern to me. Thank you all for you tips and interest.

Has anyone compared braking effectiveness with black anodized rims? I wonder whether the Campag. Omegas on my Bianchi are part of my problem.

Has anyone compared braking effectiveness with black anodized rims? I wonder whether the Campag. Omegas on my Bianchi are part of my problem.
Black-anodized rims usually don't provide as good of a surface for brake blocks to have nice, fun friction with. Plus the hard anodizing (I think) is an insulator, so heat can build up in the brake blocks more quickly.
Jobst Brandt thinks hard-anodizing was stupid, and gives his reasons here (http://www.sheldonbrown.com/brandt/anodized-rims.html).

On the other hand, after some rides in the rain, the hard-anodized finish will wear down and expose bare aluminum.