Singlespeed & Fixed Gear - Pake framset

What are you opinions?..i mean if you got one. I know it looks cool in the pic. Thinking of getting one.http://us.st11.yimg.com/us.st.yimg.com/I/yhst-3773699254952_1911_159653

Here's what's been said about it on BF:

http://tinyurl.com/oafsu

thanks:)

Here's what's been said about it on BF:

http://tinyurl.com/oafsu

*cough* aren't you selling one? *cough*

:P

Fixedgear gallery just posted a review:
http://fixedgeargallery.com/framebuilders/pake/

I'm not sure if I agree with the "super stiff" fork finding. The front end of my Pake seems as congenial as that on any of my other bikes, even on 700x23c tires. Maybe I have mushy arms, or maybe the forks vary. Anyway, forks are easy to replace.

My Surly Cross Check may be more versatile, but my Pake is more fun.

baldylocks just picked up one of these frames. i haven't talked to him about how he likes it yet. and there was one parked down the street earlier today when i was bringing my lunch back to work.

Fixedgear gallery just posted a review:
http://fixedgeargallery.com/framebuilders/pake/

I'm not sure if I agree with the "super stiff" fork finding.

i definitely don't agree. i agree with your disagree. the fork is fine (functionally, not aesthetically) but it gets the job done. get one, you'll like it. i throw mine. takes it like a champ. I'll try to get pictures next time i'm around a digicam

-jason

I just built one up last week and I love that thing. I built it cuz I wanted something to be a little harder on and xthugmurderx is 100% right, it takes it like a champ.

Personally, I think that it's freakin' SLICK!

I want one. But I lack funds, and haven't ridden this Fuji frame into the ground yet. -_-;;

I'm happy that I didn't get one. For the cost of the Pake framset and a little bit, I got a real track frame of columbus steel and campy/cinelli components. That's a rare find, but you can find good track bikes for cheaper than you can build up a pake.

I'm happy that I didn't get one. For the cost of the Pake framset and a little bit, I got a real track frame of columbus steel and campy/cinelli components. That's a rare find, but you can find good track bikes for cheaper than you can build up a pake.

Way to name drop. With all those well known brand names your bike must handle great and fit your perfectly!

...and it must be fast as light

I'm happy that I didn't get one. For the cost of the Pake framset and a little bit, I got a real track frame of columbus steel and campy/cinelli components. That's a rare find, but you can find good track bikes for cheaper than you can build up a pake.

depends... you can always find good deals, i got my pake frame for $200 and a $20 fork. now find me a nice steel track frame for under $220.


as for my opinion of the pake (as an owner), i think it's a nice frame. it's a little heavy but it is clean and takes a beating. i thought the fetish and level frames that are always on ebay are freakin UGLY. didn't like the cable braze-ons on the cityfixed (nor the reputation of NYCbikes). though the spicer frame was in an ugly color (school bus yellow). so i was basically down to the mercier kiloTT and the pake. i bought the first one i found at the better price.

this was before i saw the green kiloTT's though, i wish i'd known those were coming!

however at $309? that's starting to get steep for me, i might splurge another $20 for an Angus.

***Warning! Cynical Message Alert***

These Pake frames sure are pretty...seriously...I think they look really really nice. However, they're made with plain old 4130 (not even a treated version like true temper as far as I can tell). They weigh in at over 5 pounds and the fork is no featherweight either. I just have to wonder why people would consider buying these for $320 when they could pick up an old beater to convert. There are plenty of bikes out there made of 4130, a variety of Reynolds Steels, Tange Steels, etc for under $100....and I mean complete bikes that you can still use many of the old parts. I have 2 Treks right now that are incredible after 20 years. Even if you decided to get a paint job for the frame, it would still cost less than $100 for the paint. Anyhow....as I write this, it seems a bit jerky and judgemental...that's not my intention. I just feel a bit underinformed of why folks would go this route if they could pick up something used and old that is going to be cheaper and just as good. Am I just and old fogey that can't keep us with the times?

difference in geometry and bottom bracket height? that's a few reasons. i think that a rear facing track dropout is a whole hell of a lot easier to deal with that stupid road frames. i got mine at shop discount for $185. I had all the other components with the exception of a 27.0 seatpost and 1" threadless headset already (phil/open pro wheels, phil bottom bracket, sugino mighty cranks, bontrager stem and deda elementi drops) minus 27.0 seatpost and 1" threadless headset already...i can't really think of a reason not to get one. can you? sure they're heavy (roughly translated to "takes a beating") and the fork is ugly (but i hate when only aethestics are considered, you can keep your colored rims). I don't know. it works for what i use it for.

-jason

it's all about geometry.

1" threaded headset? FSA Orbit X - it's even cartridge bearing. Done. A lot of shops still sell it w/out the fork, so you can provide your own (I got my frame at a co-op called the Bike Hub or something). You could either get a Steamroller fork for it which is lugged or pull a chromed road fork from the used pile of any bike shop.

The geometry of the bike is nice and the steel's tough. I couldn't give two ****s if it weighs a pound more than some other frame because I use it for my ****ing commuter - I'm not doing a time trial up the alpes.

difference in geometry and bottom bracket height? that's a few reasons. i think that a rear facing track dropout is a whole hell of a lot easier to deal with that stupid road frames. i got mine at shop discount for $185. I had all the other components with the exception of a 27.0 seatpost and 1" threadless headset already (phil/open pro wheels, phil bottom bracket, sugino mighty cranks, bontrager stem and deda elementi drops) minus 27.0 seatpost and 1" threadless headset already...i can't really think of a reason not to get one. can you? sure they're heavy (roughly translated to "takes a beating") and the fork is ugly (but i hate when only aethestics are considered, you can keep your colored rims). I don't know. it works for what i use it for.

-jason

okay...for that price, it's DEFINITELY worth it. i have a few bikes right now and if I came across a Pake frame for $185, I would probably buy it. the geometry thing i'm not clear on. if you mean it has nice relaxed geometry, so does my 83 trek 400 that i picked up complete for $65....some would say I paid too much. :)

edit: I also don't give a flip what the fork looks like as long as it holds the wheel, fits in the head tube and holds the stem. however, it ain't light........

the geometry isn't all that relaxed. that's the point. it's the same as the rush, if i remember correctly. i dunno, i'll admit to talking crap on them a while back, but that was all unsubstantiated and stupid. they're nice frames for what they are.

crap talker! comin' back to philly?

anyway, just built one o' these for a friend. we opted for a threaded fork. seemed pretty nice, not light, but it wasn't mind-bogglingly heavy either. i like that the decals were so easy to remove. seatpost was a ***** to get in, and yes i'm aware they are 27.0.

meh, mine is lighter than my friends full keirin level, so i win (i'm faster too (that's right tom)). and maybe someday, but i don't know when. ****s hit the fan.

-jason

for the same $ you can pick a 56cm gt gtb on the bay

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ih=019&item=290025060149&rd=1&sspagename=STRK%3AMESE%3AIT&rd=1

I wouldnt be caught within 100 feet of anything that GT made.

=wearyouryouth


depends... you can always find good deals, i got my pake frame for $200 and a $20 fork. now find me a nice steel track frame for under $220.

Okay, how about $250 built up? Do that with anything but the worst parts on a pake and I'll be impressed. If you're willing to look harder, it's easy to find a good bike at a good price that is much more personal than a mass-produced pake.

=eyefloater


Way to name drop. With all those well known brand names your bike must handle great and fit your perfectly!

I only dropped the names I needed to. Columbus indicates the quality of the steel--arguably the best. Campy and Cinelli indicate the quality of the components--also the best. If it were a track bike made out of cro mo or hi ten with ****ty parts it'd be a different story. If I was dropping names I would have told you what the manufacturer of the frame is, cause it is collectible, but I find the frame material and parts more important than who exactly made it, as long as the manufacturer knew what they were doing.. But what exactly I got doesn't matter as far as this topic is concerned.

And btw, it's not a fluke, I have two track bikes both columbus one high end parts one mid end parts both cases $250.

And oh yeah, both of them are 54 CM, ideal track size for my body. I don't reach too far on either of these bikes, and yeah, it does handle sweet. It's zippy and fun and I'm thrilled about it, you cynical bastards*.

*you does not necessarily mean you.

I wouldnt be caught within 100 feet of anything that GT made.

whoa - easy there tiger

really?

not even their 853 reynolds track frames?

yet your considering one of the cheapest wannabe fixed gear framesets?

the geometry isn't all that relaxed. that's the point. it's the same as the rush, if i remember correctly. i dunno, i'll admit to talking crap on them a while back, but that was all unsubstantiated and stupid. they're nice frames for what they are.

well...i wan't trying to talk crap. with all this talk about geometry, i want to try one. quick....someone sell me one with a 53 cm top tube on the cheap. otherwise, i'm free to talk unsubstantitated and stupid crap all i want! :D

listen to the dudes.. dont argue.. gravity and cinelli/campy guy are just trying to help and they speak the truth

=wearyouryouth

Okay, how about $250 built up? Do that with anything but the worst parts on a pake and I'll be impressed. If you're willing to look harder, it's easy to find a good bike at a good price that is much more personal than a mass-produced pake.


i'm not calling you a liar by any means but pretty pleeeeeeeease tell me where you find a $250 nicely built up steel track frame other than a guy on the street corner with a truck full of "goods" or the random lucky yard sale where the guy doesn't know what he's got?

i enjoy my pake, and i do consider it peronalized, but i have dropped probably $550 all out the door (much going to the paul hubs/deep v's) yeah it can be done cheaper lots of ways but i'm not talking about component price, i'm talking frame price.

hey guys...i don't want anyone to feel bad about their setup. in no way is a pake frame and fork a bad starting point. like i said, they're really pretty and you know 4130 is going to last. i just wondered about the cost/benefit analysis. i too would like to know how to find a nicely equipped cinelli/campy/bling bling track bike for $250. lemme know and i'll buy it.

i think i just don't quite get it?

the quality of the frame is def not impressive. the price is certainly sweet, but why not just snag a used frame on ebay or CL? i mean those new decal-less Langster for going for $300. and if you find something used, you could likely score something WAY sweeter than a pake.

i think i just don't quite get it?

the quality of the frame is def not impressive. the price is certainly sweet, but why not just snag a used frame on ebay or CL? i mean those new decal-less Langster for going for $300. and if you find something used, you could likely score something WAY sweeter than a pake.

i hear ya, those 06 s-works frames go for a grand at bike shops (albeit with fork)

a very respectable velo machine at that - the s-works langster

i picked one up on ebay for $230

Meh, **** it. If you can get something nicer for the same price - go for it. Just make sure you know what you're buying (geometry, materials, etc.). Since a lot of the time used bikes have either no or questionable geometry info, I'd do all I could to see the bike in person and hopefully test ride it before I put money down.

Columbus/Cinelli dude: It's probably a nice bike that you've got, but Columbus made gas pipe just like everyone else for some of their tubesets. And just because it says Cinelli on it doesn't mean it's still in good condition. I saw a set of Cinelli bars the other day that snapped off at the stem. The owner replaced them with cheap Kalloy bars. Now in this case I'm not even dissing the Cinelli bars, they'd been over-tightened in a clamp that was the wrong size. But what if those bars had been sold just before they broke? Still nice, but crap at the same time. My point is just that saying Name X doesn't mean much as far as the actual quality of the item is concerned.

But who cares? You've got your nice bikes, and "Thinking about a Pake" guy will trawl eBay for awhile looking for his own perfect deal. He'll either find something cool or get the Pake. I'm of the mindset that if it's your first venture into fixed gear bikes, go with something simple (less complications/hassles for sourcing parts and the initial build-up). I'm also of the mindset that if it's your commuter you shouldn't be using something terribly bling because it'll just be in the back of your head all the time (can't crash, can't scratch, can't lock-up, etc.). As long as everyone's on bikes they enjoy though it'll all work out.

... that's me trying to be less cynical. I'm making an honest effort here.

lol. I checked the bike out, it's in good shape. As far as where I got them, in both cases from older track racers. I'm pretty sure it's high quality columbus, as I doubt gas pipe tubing can be built up at a bit under 18 lbs. I have a bike that might be reynolds or gas pipe tubing, a single speed, at 25 lbs for comparison with Shimano 600 so it's not the parts that are so heavy.

okay...last thing i'll add here. for the money, i think the iro angus is much better. $9 more, weighs over a pound less. looks like the price includes the fork.

As everyone else has said, if you can get a nice track frame under the price of a new Pake then I say go for it. But for me, I got a new Pake frame off CL in my size for $165 shipped to my door. I couldn't buy or find another track frame that cheap anywhere. I have been riding it now for about 8 months and could not be happier with it. I like the robust nature of the frame because I know that I can bang it around and not worry too much about dings, dents or that I just effed it up because it cost me a boat load of money. I have the original fork that came with it, but have never used it because I preferred *gasp* my carbon fork. The Pake fork does look wimpy, but if I ever need a backup for my ride I have it without having to search for a new one. Would I have bought this bike complete? Probably not because there are too many other nice off the shelf bikes for the same price range. Would I buy the frame/fork for this price again, DEFINETLY.

okay...last thing i'll add here. for the money, i think the iro angus is much better. $9 more, weighs over a pound less. looks like the price includes the fork.

+1
$300 for a *straight gauge* plain 4130 frame is a ripoff.

I'm happy that I didn't get one. For the cost of the Pake framset and a little bit, I got a real track frame of columbus steel and campy/cinelli components. That's a rare find, but you can find good track bikes for cheaper than you can build up a pake. yeah, where? and im sure are totally rusty.

whoa - easy there tiger

really?

not even their 853 reynolds track frames?

yet your considering one of the cheapest wannabe fixed gear framesets?

+ 1

I raced an 853 GT track bike for six years in the 90's AND, had a BMX sponsership with them in the early 80's. Gary Turner was making bikes in SoCal long before you could walk.

Drop the $hit talk or invest in a history book newbee.

yeah, where? and im sure are totally rusty.

Negative. One is immaculate, one has rust on the fork end where the bolt clamps on to (normal for a non-cromed bike that wasn't used much), a little on the BB and a few various spots, and a little rust in allen wrench sockets from lack of use. Alltogether, it's quite fixable. The one with some rust isn't something to be hung on the wall, but that's not what I was going for anyway. It's my regular/winter ride, so I don't feel bad letting it get scratched up a little since it's not well-preserved already.

Seriously, this isn't a complicated matter. Can you find better for the price than pake? Yes. Will you? Not unless you're extremely lucky, persistant, clever, or have connections. I have 4 bikes that were all a great value and I'm very happy with them. Why did it turn out well? I'm persistant in searching, I sometimes find things in unusual ways, I know what I'm looking for (size, makes, models, components, etc..), I'm getting better at knowing what to look for as far as mechanics go, and so on. As far as bikes go, people create their own luck. 4 bikes didn't just fall into my lap in a one month span for no reason.

BTW, there are some good tips on used bike purchasing in a catalog on the front page of fixedgeargallery.com. It's a cyclopedia catalog from the 70s (which is the period I buy bikes from, or the 80s, but not big diffference there), just go to the homepage and search catalog... there are only like 3. I think the article is near the end of the catalog.

Some is obvious but one good tip I never thought of/heard of is to throw down a bucket of water and ride straight through it. If the tire marks don't match up, your frame may not be straight.

Oh, and I almost never buy something off eBay unless it's really weird and impossible to find. I got cheap generic brake hoods there, a nice masterlock for a lock I'm making, a couple cycling jerseys, and that's about it. I tried to get bikes there but they always go for too much. Even the weird brands are overpicked almost invariably, unless you really know your stuff or are looking for something that almost nobody else looks for. I know a little, but not near enough to get a good deal on an eBay bike. Also shipping sucks.

in the past week ive found

2 gt's.fully built.. 400 and 600
1 atala track with cruiser bars.. full bike $80
2 pista concepts.. $400 each..

this is just off the top of my head..

i can agree with a $165 pake.. but a $300 pake is just being lazy

I had a really nice track bike just drop into my lap as well, but I wouldn't count on it to happen ever again...

Yea and just to let every one know. The Pake is not a Soma, the guy who works for Soma is branching off, and Soma is helping promote him.

I'm expecting my Pake on monday/tuesday next week. The first in Australia, I think. It's my first fixie.

After a lot of research the reason I went for the Pake for various reasons. I wanted a new bike, not a used (potentially damaged) bike. I wanted to see it in the flesh/steel before I buy it (sorry ebay). I wanted it to be exactly right, right size, right geometry and look. I didn't want to pay for shipping (sorry ebay pt.ii).

Also, to compensate for actual, useful knowledge i'll go on asthetics - and the pake rules.

Incidentally, I wanna run it with bullhorns and a front brake and then get deep-drop track bars for the velodrome (romantic ideas). Would it be easy to whip off the front brake on a whim (between coffee and the front door in the morning?)

For context reasons I am mechanically useless, but quite handsome and dress well.

You can't just whip it off. You need at least two tools to get it done, 3 to do it right minimum. remember you hvae to reclamp the cable every time. If you're trying to do that fast you'll **** up some day and when you brake hard you die cause you rely on the brake too much. Also there is the matter of getting it the right distance from the rim, right firmness on the lever (both of which is done when reclamping, so it must be done carefully), centered, and verify it's the right depth and angle on the rim. And if you really want to do it right you gotta toe it in.

In short, no.

Not to mention that's just the caliper. You also have the matter of removing the lever unless you feel like riding around with it on.

I wouldn't remove a brake unless I planned to ride the changed way for at least a couple weeks or a month.

I'm gonna change the bars, so the lever won't be a prob.

However, it all sounds like a royal pain in the arse, so we'll see.

Thanks for advice.

That's not quite correct, kyledr. You don't need to remove the cable at all. You just have to get a brake lever with a hinged clamp (both BMX and cross lever available), and then all you need is one allen wrench for the caliper bolt, possibly a smaller one for the lever clamp. The whole assembly comes off in one unit in <1 minute. Putting it back on is a bit more fussy cuz you have to center the caliper, but not too bad.

Woo-hooo!!!

Nothing beats a sweat deal on a used item. If you score on the first shot, more power to you. If you want a warranty, known history, and traceable seller - LBS or fab - then you'll have to pay extra for a new item.

Pake is a good street bomber that's also fun to ride. Aesthetics tend more to an elegant tool than the darling of weekend club rides. I like tools. I hate club rides.

Of course, price, aesthetics, and geometry don't mean much if you don't ride the dang thing. Straight gauge 4130 covered with sweat and grime beats 853 covered with rust and cob webs any day of the week.

You can't just whip it off. You need at least two tools to get it done, 3 to do it right minimum. remember you hvae to reclamp the cable every time. If you're trying to do that fast you'll **** up some day and when you brake hard you die cause you rely on the brake too much. Also there is the matter of getting it the right distance from the rim, right firmness on the lever (both of which is done when reclamping, so it must be done carefully), centered, and verify it's the right depth and angle on the rim. And if you really want to do it right you gotta toe it in.

In short, no.

Not to mention that's just the caliper. You also have the matter of removing the lever unless you feel like riding around with it on.

I wouldn't remove a brake unless I planned to ride the changed way for at least a couple weeks or a month.

come on, get creative.
i could do it easy on my bike...two tools...or one even maybe (multi set of allens).

i have a threaded fork, i have an extra stem with different bars mounted and taped.
so, to change bars (which he is talking about for the velodrome i guess), unbolt the allen in the stem and unbolt the one bolt through the brake...the brake, cable, bars and stem all come off as one unit...simple.
no need to undo the brake cable from the caliper, no need to mess with the shoes on the brake or to even unbolt the brake lever.

i totally agree with piwonka... you can do it in 2 minutes with 2 allen wrenches (prob not one). it'll take a little more time to put it back on and line up the brake, but maybe throw in another 1-2 minutes...