General Cycling Discussion - "Just do me a favor and stay off the streets"

So I finally pedal my way over to a new friend's house, this being the first time he's seen me on a bicycle. He astonished at my preparation: helmet, mirror, gloves... the works. I am duly complimented for my apparent dedication to cycling.
Then he adds, "Just do me a favor and stay off the streets".
I understand the lack of knowledge that non-cyclists exhibit and look at this as an opportunity to shed some light on some things, i.e., the cycling laws and appropriate cycling safety methods. I take the time to politely explain the logic of street riding, the laws and cite various examples of what could happen otherwise.
His response was, "Look, I can understand if there's no sidewalk, but if there is a sidewalk, that's where you ought to be."
I then cite the dangers of sidewalk riding. Undaunted by the barrage of explanations, he states, "I don't care, man. You're not going to catch me riding in the street and you really shouldn't either. There's nothing worse than coming up on a cyclist while you're driving." My response was, "Sure there is: an impatient driver coming from behind you while you're cycling".
He still didn't get it and I had lost my patience with him as he did with me. We ended the showdown with a chuckle and went on to other things.
People like this frighten me.

Originally posted by Bikes-N-Drums
There's nothing worse than coming up on a cyclist while you're driving." My response was, "Sure there is: an impatient driver coming from behind you while you're cycling".

My response: "There's nothing worse than coming up on a pedestrian while cruising down the sidewalk at 20 mph."

it's illegal to ride a bike on the sidewalk in my neighborhood.

Besides there are signs that say "share the road" and "bike route", reaffirming the fact that i have a right to be there!

Maybe that little argument did him some good.Now he knows both sides of the story and will be less aggressive on the streets.:)

>>>>"There's nothing worse than coming up on a cyclist while you're driving."<<<<

It's illegal to ride a bicycle on the sidewalks in New York City. The police would give you a $85.00 ticket in a hearbeat.

Pavement (sidewalk) cycling is supposed to be a no-no in the UK as well. I actually think cycling on the pavement is one of the most anti-social things a cyclist can do. It also gives the bike-haters something to whinge about.

Originally posted by Gojohnnygo.
Maybe that little argument did him some good.Now he knows both sides of the story and will be less aggressive on the streets.:)

I was about to respond with my usual 'what a tosser' post, but the one I've quoted made me think. Maybe this is the best way to get our message across. Maybe you could ask him to actually measure the time it 'costs' him to pass a cyclist safely. I'd be very surprised if it was more than three seconds.

The thing I can't understand is that drivers have such a problem slowing down for three seconds to pass a cyclist, but other delays that can take 10-20 minutes or more out of their day seem to be ignored. What gives?

Originally posted by Bikes-N-Drums
....There's nothing worse than coming up on a cyclist while you're driving.....

There's nothing worse than coming up on a 4wheeler while you're driving your 450hp, PETERBILT hauling 50,000# of frozen chicken nuggests. You just wish they would all get off the big road and drive in the side streets like they're supposed to.

Originally posted by Hants Commuter
Pavement (sidewalk) cycling is supposed to be a no-no in the UK as well. I actually think cycling on the pavement is one of the most anti-social things a cyclist can do. It also gives the bike-haters something to whinge about.

Although it's perfectly legal for cyclists to use the sidewalks in my state (WA), I flat out refuse to for reasons of safety (to my self and pedestrians) and principle. The only time I will use a sidewalk/crosswalk is when I dismount and become a pedestrian in order to bypass long stoplights or ones without dedicated left-turn lanes. I'm torn about the laws allowing use of bicycles on sidewalks. On one hand, I feel it's dangerous but on the other hand it does give cyclists advantages and flexibility over motorists.

Originally posted by Bikes-N-Drums
My response was, "Sure there is: an impatient driver coming from behind you while you're cycling".
He still didn't get it and I had lost my patience with him as he did with me.
Better check your mirror very carefully from now on. That crazy Atlanta motorist may be your friend. ;)

Originally posted by 1oldRoadie
There's nothing worse than coming up on a 4wheeler while you're driving your 450hp, PETERBILT hauling 50,000# of frozen chicken nuggests. You just wish they would all get off the big road and drive in the side streets like they're supposed to.

And if you live in Sweden: There's nothing worse than trying to land your Saab Gripen on the highway with all those cars and trucks clogging your rollout path. :D

Originally posted by Chris L
I was about to respond with my usual 'what a tosser' post, but the one I've quoted made me think. Maybe this is the best way to get our message across. Maybe you could ask him to actually measure the time it 'costs' him to pass a cyclist safely. I'd be very surprised if it was more than three seconds.

The thing I can't understand is that drivers have such a problem slowing down for three seconds to pass a cyclist, but other delays that can take 10-20 minutes or more out of their day seem to be ignored. What gives?

People that can't slow down for three seconds to pass a cyclist are the same people that tailgate you on the road, thinking that being 10 yards closer to your bumper will get them .001 seconds earlier to their destination

Be not unequally yoked with unbelievers.

:)

The only way to convince an unbeliever is to prove it. Make them
eat the proof without saying a word.

Today I was wolfing down a decent slice of pizza. A coworker (quite significantly sized) said, "You're going to get fat on that!"

I just chuckled.

The biggest road block to cyclists acceptance is cyclists themselves. I have met all too many who cut off cars and do stupid stunts that infuriate drivers. People who in group rides go four or five or more abreast down the road, etc....

Some of the biggest jerks I have run across are cyclists.

Originally posted by SamDaBikinMan
The biggest road block to cyclists acceptance is cyclists themselves. I have met all too many who cut off cars and do stupid stunts that infuriate drivers. People who in group rides go four or five or more abreast down the road, etc....

Another thing I find perplexing is the number of drivers who try to justify their bigotry with the old "cyclists break road rules" line, without first taking a look at their own behaviour.

When he said, "There's nothing worse than coming up on a cyclist while you're driving." what you should have said was, "Unless of course you hit one -- in which case you've probably ruined at least two lives: theirs and yours. Oh, and for what it's worth, you'd also be in the wrong because as a motorist in Georgia you must yield way and safely overtake slower moving vehicles that are legally using the road, including bicycles."

It's a hard job to sell cycling to people who use their steel cages to insulate themselves from humanity and responsibility for their behavior behind the wheel.

Originally posted by SamDaBikinMan
The biggest road block to cyclists acceptance is cyclists themselves. I have met all too many who cut off cars and do stupid stunts that infuriate drivers. People who in group rides go four or five or more abreast down the road, etc....

Some of the biggest jerks I have run across are cyclists.

No, the biggest road block is the lack of good judgement and tolerance on the part of some cyclists, some motorists and anyone -- motorists or cyclists -- using over-generalizations out of frustration with the whole situation which certainly doesn't do anything towards solving the real problems.

The skills of motorists continue to decline, enforcement of existing traffic laws is almost non-existent in areas where cyclists and cars most frequently share the road (apparently low revenue producers for most juridictions), and people are just so caught up in their busy lives that they've forgotten what it means to be a good citizen all of the time, not just when it's convenient or when someone they might know is watching.

Back to cyclists backing up cars.... Either on my bike or as a motorist in Georgia and elsewhere, I've seen more cars backed up behind a single bike or a single file line of cyclists that I've ever seen behind a group training ride that has "taken the road" and I'll be frank -- I'm not sure which is the smarter move.

It it safer to give a motorist who has demonstrated the inability to safely share their 5' wide car with a bicycle in an 8' wide lane -- or a 18' wide road for that matter -- room to pass OR to just let them sit there. Ultimately, I always end up taking control of the situation by signalling a reluctant motorist when it's not safe to pass by holding out my arm with my palm exposed (that would be the old hand signal for "stop" which most older motorists still remember) and then wave them through when it is safe (admittedly, there is a whole different thread about liability for doing this). And of course, the real pleasure is when all the other motorists who were held up by the reluctant and/or poorly skilled motorist direct their angst towards the cyclists "for holding them up" instead of the motorist who was actually the cause of the back-up. So, ultimately, when you have a large group of cyclists taking the road may be the right answer for keeping a dangerous situation from developing. Ultimately, in spite of how long motorists THINK they are delayed, the time actually lost can most often be measured in seconds. Let's see, inconvience 4 motorists for a minute or two or risk the lives of 40 cyclists??? It's a tough decision for sure -- especially on Sunday mornings when those motorists are rushing to or from Sunday services and seem to have even less tolerance for their fellow man: how ironic?

And if you think it's bad riding a bicycle, you ought to try riding a motorcycle on the highways here in Atlanta. Heck, motorists will just as soon cut-off 700lbs of motorcycle and rider as 200lbs of bicycle and cyclist.

Originally posted by Chris L
Another thing I find perplexing is the number of drivers who try to justify their bigotry with the old "cyclists break road rules" line, without first taking a look at their own behaviour.

I remember one motorist who was stuck behind someone who was double parked (and thereby blocking the only travel lane) who became very irate - holding his horn down and giving the 'artery clogger' an obscene gesture.

Not two blocks later do I catch up with him - he was double parked!

Good post. I always say to this sort of comment.

" Cycling isn't dangerous, but car drivers make it so. The secret to good driving is observation. If you can't observe properly and act accordingly then you shouldn't be driving"

I may swear a bit :)

Originally posted by khuon
And if you live in Sweden: There's nothing worse than trying to land your Saab Gripen on the highway with all those cars and trucks clogging your rollout path. :D

Well, they've solved that one: the new JAS lands all over the place instead of the runway... :D

sorry... couldn't resist.

--J

Saw this on another forum re bikes on sidewalks. (http://www.cleveland.com/search/index.ssf?/base/cuyahoga/1046169034111500.xml?cleve)

Apparently in Ohio the default state law is bikes on the road but local governments have the authority to prohibit them on the road and require them to be ridden on the sidewalk. This guy is lobbying against this stupidity, one town at a time.

I believe (but I'd have to look it up) that here in Cali bikes are always authorized to use the street and forbidden to use the sidewalk but local governments can designate some sidewalks as bikeways.

As a lone commuting cyclist, the problem I have is cars holding me up. As for holding up cars, it never happens. It's just too easy to pass a narrow, slow-moving cyclist when you're driving 100 or more horses.

They race ahead of me, only to stop and block my path. Motorists seem to be obsessed with their current speed, but have no clue as to their average speed. If they knew they were going to average 25 miles per hour, they might drive smarter.

Yesterday, on my trip home from work, I noticed a small red pickup with no bumper pass me by. I must have passed him also, because he passed me again later. Actually, I saw him pass me at least 3 times (after which I lost interest.)

To be quite fair, most motorists I encounter do their best to share the road with me. That's the truth.

One thing drivers fail to recognize is that while many cyclists (serious cyclists, as opposed to People On Bikes) are actually very observant of traffic rules, etc, that certain things are not designed for cyclists. Stop signs for example were designed for cars. Cyclists can be aware of intersections and will stop if a car is coming, but to stop and unclip at every block is unrealistic. And sidewalks were not designed for bikes either. I will point out to anyone who complains that a cyclist who follows the road rules, obeys traffic lights and is aware of what is going on around them is no more dangerous to a car than another car. The truth is that anyone who doesn't look where they're going is a menace, whether on a bike, walking, drivng or pushing a grocery cart! Just yesterday clonked my knee because some bimbo with a grocery cart was blocking the way in the supermarket.

Well, the way I drive, I usually get passed by the road bikers so it's not an issue. :p

Originally posted by Chris L


The thing I can't understand is that drivers have such a problem slowing down for three seconds to pass a cyclist, but other delays that can take 10-20 minutes or more out of their day seem to be ignored. What gives?
They dont want to miss the next red light , it`l give them more time to sit there & pick their noses :D

I have rarely been abused while riding in a group or solo. So cyclist/car rage isn't much of a problem here.

However I did have the driver of our garbage truck yell at me and a friend "idiots" when we were riding legally 2 abreast. The ironic part is that his truck has a huge sticker on the back that says "constantly stopping and reversing". So it's OK for him to hold up traffic but heaven forbid we delay him by 3 seconds while he is on his way to the dump.:crash:

I'm confused.

CHEERS.

Mark

Originally posted by Dutchy
So it's OK for him to hold up traffic but heaven forbid we delay him by 3 seconds while he is on his way to the dump.

I'm confused.


Read Greywolf's post above. I think that answers the question. :D

There are sidewalks and sidewalks. If it is the crowded narrow affair, then it is dangerous to cycle on it and I stick on the road.

But sometimes I cycle on a wide empty sidewalks. By this I am a bit further from exhaust.

I do not cycle fast on a sidewalks from fear to hit a ped.

There must be a reason for using the words sideWALK and BIKEpath,not sidebike or walkpath.

If they knew they were going to average 25 miles per hour, they might drive smarter. I'm not so sure. There is one main street in Harrisburg, Pa that has the traffic lights timed so that if you go 28 mph, you will hit all green lights and just keep on rolling. These motorists drive that road every day. You'd think that they would learn to just cruse along at 28 - NO WAY. They repeatedly floor the gas pedal to go one block then jam on the breaks, just to sit and wait for the next green light. They seem to be psychologically unable to go at the speed limit – even if it’s beneficial to them.

There is one main street in Harrisburg, Pa that has the traffic lights timed so that if you go 28 mph, you will hit all green lights and just keep on rolling.

Does it work on your bike if you go at 14 mph, too?

Thats a trick ? isnt it?

Originally posted by shokhead
There must be a reason for using the words sideWALK and BIKEpath,not sidebike or walkpath.

I thought both of those were designed for the exclusive use of pedestrians.

There must be a reason for using the words sideWALK and BIKEpath,not sidebike or walkpath. Don't expect to much logic in the way we humans name something. We park in a DRIVEway and drive on the PARKway. :)

Here in socal,the long beach area we have the riverbed or drainage ditch,whatever u call it the the water runoff drains into to take it to the beach and also the snowmelt.Along the top is a paved,divided lane for twoway traffic.Its a bikepath.It goes both ways for miles and miles and its great but there is also walkers,runners,skaters,roller blades,skateboards,babystrollers,little tiny kids with training wheels,dog walkers and on bikes,you get it,everything.I dont care BUT when i ride i come up against all of these using both lanes coming towards me and me coming up on them.Why cant people figure out they are not the only ones using it and use the one lane that they are going in.I dont ride in the oncoming traffic lane and expect them to get out of my way.I wouldnt do any of those other things taking up both lanes.Am i asking to much?And belive me some have big problems.Lots of times i come up on runners in both lanes and i yell on your left and they each move a bit over so i have to go through the middle of them and not around both of them.Clueless?

Originally posted by shokhead
Clueless?

Yes. And self-centered. The great philosophical question is: Are they clueless because they're self-centered? Or are they self-centered because they're clueless? :p