Preferred base layer (wicking layer)

[kill.cactus]

I'm in Michigan, so pretty soon I'm going to be an icebiker (yay!). I'm pretty up to dressing in layers, but the base layer that needs to wick sweat that I generate - I'm confused. I mean Polypro. is supposed to wick sweat away from your skin, yes, but don't you also use it when exercising when it is hot? I suppose that when protected from the wind by other layers, it allows you to stay dry and thus warm though... is this correct?


Most importantly, though, which brand/material do you guys prefer? Anyone use underarmour? (the summer variety)

Thanks!

[rknj]

Wicking is good no matter the weather. Riding in a soggy shirt is no fun, riding in a soggy shirt that's freezing cold is less fun.

[ken cummings]

In Colorado I was car-free through 4 winters with a 6 mile ride to work. One or two layers of polypro (all there was back then) with wool over it to serve as a moisture sink and an outer wind shell. At work the wool tights and Jerseys would dry out for the return trip. I never found a windshell, Goretex or otherwise, that could pass water vapor fast enough. In sub-zero weather some areas of wool would start to freeze. It has been twenty years so something has to be better by now. www.foxwear.net has some interesting stuff custom made no less.

[Ritehsedad]

Last winter when it was in the 30's or lower I would wear 2 polyester shirts (long & short sleeve) & wool sweater under a nylon windbreaker. Below 20 I added a fleece vest. That worked down to 0 degrees.

[vrkelley]

Polypro. is supposed to wick sweat away from your skin, yes, but don't you also use it when exercising when it is hot?
Most importantly, though, which brand/material do you guys prefer? Anyone use underarmour? (the summer variety)



You hit the nail on the head. armour all is great for heat...But I tried the under armour as a base layer on my (then) 9mile inbound route to work. Even @40F (not that cold), as soon as I go into a decent, the wind would just chill that wicked sweat. Adding layers made things worse.

For starters, you'll probably need (new or used):

* a long sleeve thin wool undershirt
* 1 medium wt or light wt wool zip down or button down sweater
* 1-3 pairs of thin wool socks
* thin wool cap
* soft shell or wind breaker style jacket
* emergency bail out plan if you get too cold or if the weather 'turns'

[Jarery]

A base layer has one purpose.
Get sweat off your body, and push it thru to the other side where it is spread out so it can evaporate fast, or push it thru so and spread it out so it can be picked up by the next layer your wearing.

Thats it. Thats its only purpose. A base layer does not need any any thermal properties at all in order to be a good base layer.

A secondary trait thats often looked for is 'next to skin comfort'. Wool base layers shine here, since even if they dont work the best at the main purpose of wickign sweat away, they feel great even when their soggy with sweat !

Very best fabric I have found so far is silkweight Polartech Power Dry. Nothing I have seen matches this stuff in its ability to pull sweat off you, spread it out, and get rid of it. Its disadvantage is it doesnt have the nice snug fit of undermor, nor as much money in marketing and fasion appeal.
Underarmour works so so, but as vrkelley mentions above, if your not wearing a windproof, your gonna freeze on the downhills.

http://www.mec.ca/Products/product_detail.jsp?PRODUCT%3C%3Eprd_id=845524442617589&FOLDER%3C%3Efolder_id=2534374302539673&bmUID=1157268349335

Best advice on a base layer, silkweight powerdry. (look for the ones with silver thread added for anti bacterial, ie no smell)
best advice on a mid layer, wool.
Best advice on an outer layer, a softshell made with no membrane.

G'luck

[edzo]

thin silk undershirt. really thin like a nylon stocking. super tough, won't rip, warm warm warm...get at llbean

then wool on top of that


silk and wool do not build up a funk...no need for techno fabrics

[vrkelley]

A base layer has one purpose.

Best advice on an outer layer, a softshell made with no membrane.

G'luck
Jarery, when you say "no membrane", what does that mean?

[Jarery]

Jarery, when you say "no membrane", what does that mean?

Some of the softshell materials have a membrane, like a sheet of expanded plastic (similar to a waterproof jackets expanded ptfe), as a layer. Then they put fleece or something on the inside, and a tough wearing layer on the outside. Polartech's Windstopper material is one example thats popular.

The reason I say to stay away from a membrane sytem softshell is the same reason people dont like waterproofs, they dont breath enough for aerobic activities. More and more softshells are being made with bi component weaves. Where the fabrics themselves and how tight they are sewn block the wind and moisture. For us cyclists, these work a LOT better. They are usually referd to as stretch woven materials. My favorite is schoeller dryskin. (mec's ferrata is made from this, or ibex climawool is a version of this also)

The non membrane ones always rate at the very top end of any breathability test, and the membrane ones rate at the bottom.

Edit : i've not tried silk base layer myself. I definatly need to try it this winter

[vrkelley]

Because I tend to bike long and hard, the silk layer left me pretty chilly on the decents. Wool with a schoeller dry skin shell seemed to work the best.

Oddly, what worked the previous year, doesn't seem to work the next year. Part of that is due to our winters (sometimes, snowy, other times rainy, other times clear, dry and cold).

[euroford]

base layer:

patagonia lightweight capalene top and bottom, smartwool liner socks

insulation layer:

nothing, midweight or heavyweight patagonia capalene top and bottom, midweight or expedition weight capalene socks. mountain hardware andonista or phillips head hat, sometimes a thin balaclava.

softshell layer:

rei mystral pants or arcteryx gamma mx pants, the north face apex softshell jacket

gloves:

black diamond powerstretch, black diamond drytool or some big fat black diamond mittins

rain protection:

marmot precip pants and jacket

severe rain protection:

mountain hardware beryllium park, precip pants and black diamond frontpoint gaitors

added insulation while standing around:

mountain hardware sub zero (just pulled over top of everything else)



this basic strategy has served me without fail for years, from inspections on chicago skyscrapers, mountain biking in michigan, commuting in chicago, snowmobileing in wisconsin and the up, ice climbing north of lake superior and in the colorado rockies, mountaineering on mount ranier and bigwall climbing the diamond on longs peak in colorado.

climbers depend on their clothing systems for survival, and take this stuff seriously. i find this getup to be comfortable, versitile, lightweight and bombproof.


also expensive :rolleyes:

[Jarery]

patagonia lightweight capalene top and bottom

My second favorite base layer, good choice :D

[CrosseyedCrickt]

I live not far from you.
Not much experience in biking in the cold here, but I have been hunting as far north as the Central Yukon in February and let me tell you, that gets cold.
I plan on wearing this as my base layer this winter as I am now going car-free.
Thermal Shirt (http://www.basspro.com/servlet/catalog.TextId?hvarTextId=52207&hvarDept=600&hvarEvent=&hvarClassCode=5&hvarSubCode=9&hvarTarget=browse)
Thermal Pants (http://www.basspro.com/servlet/catalog.TextId?hvarTextId=52208&hvarDept=600&hvarEvent=&hvarClassCode=5&hvarSubCode=9&hvarTarget=browse)
The pants have a raised seat and the shirt has longer arms and a drop tail which makes them perfect for cycling. I'm sure that these, plus the rain gear I got from bicycleclothing.com as an outer shell will be perfect up until mid November. Then I'll add a layer of wool.

[euroford]

My second favorite base layer, good choice :D

i doubt there is much of a real performance diffrence between the two. but patagonia stuff tends to be very high quality. in having met the infamous coonyard and knowing about the company's philisophy i tend to feel good about giving them my money.

[CBBaron]

I just picked up some Merino wool sweaters from Costco for $20. I'll give them a try this winter as a mid or perhaps base layer.
Craig

[bmike]

wool.
ibex.

[nick burns]

Long sleeve Smartwool shirt. Bought two a few years ago for about $40 each. Now they only seem to have a zipper front style for almost twice that. Hopefully I can get another season or two out of them before I need to seek a replacement.

[jschatz]

Target has a great line of sweat wicking shirts for about $10 each. I think they're made by Champion. They are 100% polyester, are a tight smooth mesh and transfer moisture very well. Use these as your base layer with light weight Polartec as the next (add another Polartec jacket over this if it's really cold) and a Gore-tex type shell as the outer layer. I've used this combination cycling, XC skiing, running and winter fly fishing for years and it is bullet broof.

FYI: Synthetic fleece is far superior to wool in my experience.

[bmike]

FYI: Synthetic fleece is far superior to wool in my experience.


Disagree.
Wool doesn't hold the stink like synthetics do, and wool will keep you warm when damp and wet.

[Machka]

I use either polypro or wool ... or both! Using both together actually works quite well.

[borderline]

Last winter I used a underarmour winter baselayer (not the same as the summer variety). It was very warm. I really liked it. It was pretty expensive though ($50).

[RomSpaceKnight]

Helly Hanson for me. Downhill skiing, xc-skiing or mtbing love my HH.

[Wiswell]

thin silk undershirt. really thin like a nylon stocking. super tough, won't rip, warm warm warm...get at llbean

then wool on top of that


silk and wool do not build up a funk...no need for techno fabrics

LL Bean silk undershirt or turtleneck works great. And dries fast. Then I try long sleeve jersey, followed by lightweight (or midweight, depending on weather) polyester fleece. For bottom half, silk/wool tights (women's, like heavy pantyhose) followed by "regular" tights (if cold enough).

[hairlessbill]

Icebreaker or Arc'Teryx merino wool shirts are great. Expensive but great breathability and warmth. Almost as soft as cotton. Not plastic/static feeling as polypro. I hate static cling so I have never been happy with the whole synthentic shirt world. Ick. Always feels like I have a plastic bag stuck to my chest.

[zoridog]

Whatever you do, don't wear cotton thermals! Merino Wool is expensive but you only cry once.

[Jarery]

Wool has the best thermal ability.
Wool has the best temperature range of comfort
Wool has the close to the best for 'best feeling next to skin" (some cant wear it at all without itching)
Wool keeps you warmest the best when its wet.

Wool does not wick near as well as a synthetic. Which makes the fact it keeps you warm when wet a good property since it generally ends up weter than synthetic. Synthetic when used in the correct temperature range beats wool for keeping you dry, which is a base layers main purpose. Thats why synthetic is usually a better choice when used in the right circumstances. Wool is easier choice since you have a wider temp range to work with, and still feel 'nice' even when at the extremes.

Spring and fall when its huge temperature changes from morning ride and afternoon ride, i wear wool since it works for both rides temps. Summer and winter when the temps are similar for both rides, I find synthetics better for my commute, less cleanup at work if I arrive dry compared to arriving in a damp wool base.

[garydhatch]

Wool, Ibex or Smartwool.

[kill.cactus]

So I'm thinking (sorry if I didn't include any of your ideas - I have a microscopic budget) underarmour or polypro base layer, longsleeve thin cotton shirt, ski jacket.

As for the pants I was thinking baselayer with jeans on top as my commute won't be more than 30 minutes one way. I don't use clips or clipless or whatever, I just have regular pedals and so I'll use goretex winter boots from Asolo.

Sound good?

[vrkelley]

Wool has the best thermal ability.
Wool has the best temperature range of comfort
Wool has the close to the best for 'best feeling next to skin" (some cant wear it at all without itching)
Wool keeps you warmest the best when its wet.

Wool does not wick near as well as a synthetic. Which makes the fact it keeps you warm when wet a good property since it generally ends up weter than synthetic. Synthetic when used in the correct temperature range beats wool for keeping you dry, which is a base layers main purpose. Thats why synthetic is usually a better choice when used in the right circumstances. Wool is easier choice since you have a wider temp range to work with, and still feel 'nice' even when at the extremes.

Spring and fall when its huge temperature changes from morning ride and afternoon ride, i wear wool since it works for both rides temps. Summer and winter when the temps are similar for both rides, I find synthetics better for my commute, less cleanup at work if I arrive dry compared to arriving in a damp wool base.

Hmm...In temps above 50, I've had limited success with wool. It's just too hot esp. for the late afternoon return ride. What sort of temperature ranges, distance and speed are you riding in? How thick is this wool stuff you're wearing?

[Jarery]

All my base layers are the silkweight variety, regardless of material. As thin as possible. I also 'usually' find wool too warm. I also find wool holds too much sweat/ But it does feel great leaving the house in the am :) This time of year Im same temps as you (Vancouver BC) . I leave for work at 6:30 am, and leave work at 5:00 pm. 45 min each way. Speed? well.....only cars pass me....occasionaly.. :)

I got a few peices of wool as xmas gifts, so I create opportunities to wear them. Heh. My favorite base layers are polartech powerdry, with capalene a close second, but it costs a lot more. So bang/buck i find powerdry the best.

[tmacias]

My second favorite base layer, good choice :D

patagonia base layers come in different thickness ranges. They also provide a wool version. I picked up the thinest wool and the next thickest wool base layers and took them on a backpacking trip last week. Nights were about 35 - 40 degrees F. Was able to just have the two base layer without an additional layer when around the camp site. These are great feeling and worked well.

I didn't wear either when wearing my pack (aprox. 65lbs) since the weather during the day was perfect for a tank top, so I can't comment on the wicking ability. Snowed the day after we left ;) Go figure...

As already mentioned, they are expensive ($80 for the thin and $120 for the next thickest layer) but I think I have a solid start on my winter riding gear.

[urban rider]

Target has a great line of sweat wicking shirts for about $10 each. I think they're made by Champion. They are 100% polyester, are a tight smooth mesh and transfer moisture very well. Use these as your base layer with light weight Polartec as the next (add another Polartec jacket over this if it's really cold) and a Gore-tex type shell as the outer layer. I've used this combination cycling, XC skiing, running and winter fly fishing for years and it is bullet broof.

FYI: Synthetic fleece is far superior to wool in my experience.


I just picked up some short sleeved wicking shirts for $3.74 each in the clearance rack. I use them as a base with a long sleeve shirt. So far it works.



Gas, the price of a can of beans.

[urban rider]

So I'm thinking (sorry if I didn't include any of your ideas - I have a microscopic budget) underarmour or polypro base layer, longsleeve thin cotton shirt, ski jacket.

As for the pants I was thinking baselayer with jeans on top as my commute won't be more than 30 minutes one way. I don't use clips or clipless or whatever, I just have regular pedals and so I'll use goretex winter boots from Asolo.

Sound good?


Run to the nearest Salvation Army store or Target's clearance rack and look for winter cycling clothes, i.e. wool tops etc. I don't care for bluejeans or cotton anything.


Gas, the price of a can of beans.