Singlespeed & Fixed Gear - Track geo road bikes

I noticed Kalavinka offers road bikes. Has anyone ridden one of those? I figure as long as the geometry is track-like it should handle like one. I know I have a Tesch 101 and supposedly Dave Tesch used to build track bikes for the road...It's very sweet. It's a dang rocket.

You guys know any other Keirin-type builders that also do road bikes? I know Nagasawa supposedly doesn't anymore...and I know Yamaguchi (not Keirin, but...) does road bikes as well.

Nothing against fixed. I'm just really attached to my derailleurs..! :)

watanabe makes some amazing touring bikes. I believe Level makes road bikes as well. 3Rensho road bikes pop up now and again.

That's right. I forgot about 3Rensho. I wasted a couple of chances to bid on 3Renshos in the past on ebay....:( I should have pulled the trigger....

Very few (if any) of those have real track geometry. Also, if track geometry somehow made bikes into "rockets," I'm pretty sure some of the cat 1 and 2 road riders would be picking up on that...or maybe they're too busy doping to be thinking about legal ways to enhance their performance?

Criterium-specific bikes are going to be pretty close.

link to watanabe touring bikes? (hopefully not track geometry)

Pretty much all of the keirin builders build road frames as well. Track frames are usually a smaller part of their business, actually. Builders like Cherubim and Vogue, well known for their keirin frames make some beautiful randonneur-style bikes as well.

Why on earth would anyone make road bikes with track geometry???

There's a lot of discussion of "track geometry" vs "road geometry" here, but I'm curious how many people are actually cognizant of geometry that works well for them in one way or another. I mean, there's a lot of overlap between what some of the track builders do for track frames (Italianate influenced closer to 74/74) and what some of the modern material road builders are doing (very sharp head angles, like 74.5/73.5 or so.)

There is no "right way" to choose your geometry for a track frame -- some builders choose differently than others. I'd be interested to hear Don or Richard or Sacha weigh in a bit about their choices in geometry, or the thought processes involved rather than continue uninformed blathering ;)

link to watanabe touring bikes? (hopefully not track geometry)


no clue. i saw one at jitensha. beeeeauuuutiful

i can't find a watanabe web site, but i found this

http://www.remus.dti.ne.jp/~suzukita/bicycle/my/watanabe.html

i would love to get my hands on one of these since i have a watanabe track frame. i love fraternal bikes.

i can't find a watanabe web site, but i found this

http://www.remus.dti.ne.jp/~suzukita/bicycle/my/watanabe.html

i would love to get my hands on one of these since i have a watanabe track frame. i love fraternal bikes.

need more like this.

who makes the frames for level?

BTW, I am with LoFarkas, I have some doubts about the desireability of track bike anything in the road world.
Track bikes are designed to sprint.
Road bikes to go fast.
For constant riding cyclocross seems best.
Everyone I know who rides a Nova, Conquest, Volpe, Axis, or crosscheck rides more hours, longer distances and through rougher weather than any else.
I would speculate that a more comfortable bike lets you ride longer, stronger and more comfortably.
If bikes were shoes track bikes would be sprinters spikes and the cross bikes would be good walking boots.

I have owned like twenty five bikes and my favorite ride was probably the bridgestone RB-2.
Long top tube, nice steel, simple components, nothing track about it.

Level is Matsuda-san's atelier.

I have an old kobe touring bike that I converted because I broke the drive train anyway it is supper stiff and supper twitchy it has a wicked rack on the front but it is still nice feeling

There's a lot of discussion of "track geometry" vs "road geometry" here, but I'm curious how many people are actually cognizant of geometry that works well for them in one way or another. I mean, there's a lot of overlap between what some of the track builders do for track frames (Italianate influenced closer to 74/74) and what some of the modern material road builders are doing (very sharp head angles, like 74.5/73.5 or so.)

There is no "right way" to choose your geometry for a track frame -- some builders choose differently than others. I'd be interested to hear Don or Richard or Sacha weigh in a bit about their choices in geometry, or the thought processes involved rather than continue uninformed blathering ;)

are you going to ride track? if so, which event?!
geometry plays second fiddle to rider fit; before
a frame is complete, the rider's contact points
must be ascertained. after that - and only after
that - are the specs wrt center of gravity, wheelbase,
etcetera, considered.
iow, a "fixie" used on the road really needn't be a
dedicated track frame at all (unless you're just into
all the zeitgeist). regardless, trying to pedal on
pavement in a position dedicated for a velodrome
event is not that rational.
e-RICHIE©™®

are you going to ride track? if so, which event?!
geometry plays second fiddle to rider fit; before
a frame is complete, the rider's contact points
must be ascertained. after that - and only after
that - are the specs wrt center of gravity, wheelbase,
etcetera, considered.
iow, a "fixie" used on the road really needn't be a
dedicated track frame at all (unless you're just into
all the zeitgeist). regardless, trying to pedal on
pavement in a position dedicated for a velodrome
event is not that rational.
e-RICHIE©™®


this guy obviously has never ridden a fixed gear bike...something about zen...blahblahblah...brakes are for the inexperienced.

oh wait.

this guy obviously has never ridden a fixed gear bike...something about zen...blahblahblah...brakes are for the inexperienced.

oh wait.
this is for me?
e-RICHIE©™®

Cool responses. Guess I should have explained myself a little more. My Tesch (and my Howard) are both supposed to be 74/74 and I find that an ideal set-up to put me in an aggressive position for short, higher speed rides. For regular, longer rides I've got a LeMond (with nice classic LeMond geometry), a Jackson and a Cinelli SC.

What I'm looking for are other builders that built (or build) bikes similar to Tesch's philosophy. I figured Keirin builders would be inclined to do something like that...

Cool responses. Guess I should have explained myself a little more. My Tesch (and my Howard) are both supposed to be 74/74 and I find that an ideal set-up to put me in an aggressive position for short, higher speed rides. For regular, longer rides I've got a LeMond (with nice classic LeMond geometry), a Jackson and a Cinelli SC.

What I'm looking for are other builders that built (or build) bikes similar to Tesch's philosophy. I figured Keirin builders would be inclined to do something like that...
are they really 74/74 or is that what the articles say?
it'd be extremely hard to fit joe average on a mid-large
size frame with such a steep sta without use every last
bit of setback a seatpost can eek out.
e-RICHIE©™®

Dunno for sure on the 101, atmo, but as far as the Howie that's what Mr. Howard told me when I wrote him about the frame a while back...On the 101, I use a no-setback A/C post. It's fun, very twitchy and aggressive in handling, but it is MP. Short rides only...

Atala road had close to track specs due to crit racing frame.

I have both track and road versions and fun to ride.

S/F,
CEYA!

i love how when e-richie or sheldon or one of our other "advisors" are asked to chime in, they almost always do. it makes me feel safe to know they are watching...

i love how when e-richie or sheldon or one of our other "advisors" are asked to chime in, they almost always do. it makes me feel safe to know they are watching...

keeps the edge sharp atmo.
e-RICHIE©™®

my thoughts.. i think aboutt this too much

a. my 80s road and track ciocc are nearly identical.. sometimes i feel like the road is steeper but im pretty sure the seat tube is a tad more slack on it.. i think whats been pointed out is maybe instead of saying you want track bikes.. what you mean to say is you dont want slack bikes.. plenty of road frames will give you the tight geometry youre looking for.

b. i dont think anyone on here goes to the track to just ride 800 meters and calls it a day.. if a steep bike isnt comfy to you on the street.. it wont be on the track either

and c. i know most cities are a bit more congested.. but in los angeles.. and most suburbs.. late at night the streets are like a long track.. and fun to ride on a track bike..at least to me it is.. and i think a lot of other people..thats why we ride track bikes on the street.. because we love it..sometimes ideal and funnest dont intersect..

..thats why we ride track bikes on the street.. because we love it..sometimes ideal and funnest dont intersect..
curious in chester-
is it the track bike-ness that you like or is it the paired down, brake-less,
fixed gear part of the equation that gets you, er, wet and sticky?
e-RICHIE©™®

curious in chester-
is it the track bike-ness that you like or is it the paired down, brake-less,
fixed gear part of the equation that gets you, er, wet and sticky?
e-RICHIE©™®

i think a combo.. when i get on a "comfort" bike...i feel like im riding a lowrider with a long raked out fork..and ive owned a mellower made for road fixed gear before and didnt like it as much

i dont know the angles of my bike now.. but i dont think they are as crazy as some of the newer bikes..i mostly like when the wheels are tucked under me as far as possible and the front doesnt have that chopper feel.. maybe its from years of riding bikes and growing up racing bikes.. but ive never gotten off a bike and said "its too twitchy" ..i kinda get the sense that other people here feel that way

that being said.. clean lines and no brake holes do help with the sexyness.. but theres things about road and cross bikes that also do it for me

Twitchy is fine with me. I like having bikes that respond differently to me. Of all the bikes that I currently have fully assembled, I can't say there are any two that handle the same way.

That being said with Tesch's becoming harder to come by - and me fearing I'll wreck my 101 one of these days - where does one go for a racy, twitchy, steel steed? Yamaguchi?

Twitchy is fine with me. I like having bikes that respond differently to me. Of all the bikes that I currently have fully assembled, I can't say there are any two that handle the same way.

That being said with Tesch's becoming harder to come by - and me fearing I'll wreck my 101 one of these days - where does one go for a racy, twitchy, steel steed? Yamaguchi?

if you find a frame that fits your saddle height, and it has a small amount of
trail (the measurement determined vis-a-vis* the head angle along with the
fork rake), it will be twitchy. it's not a steep angle thing nor is it a track thing.
it's a steering geometry thing atmo.
e-RICHIE©™®


* i love french phrases...

Sounds great, thanks e-richie!!....can't really turn down advise from the best....french-leaning or not...!

That being said with Tesch's becoming harder to come by - and me fearing I'll wreck my 101 one of these days - where does one go for a racy, twitchy, steel steed? Yamaguchi?


assuming the Tesch fits you perfectly, all you have to do is measure it precisely and give those numbers to any decent framebuilder and say, "i want this." i think you're making this more complicated than it has to be. "track" frames and "road" frames are very different beasts, but if you have a geometry in mind anyone can duplicate it.

If gears and a steep seat angle ye seek, a Cervelo P2C ye shall find:

http://www.bikesportmichigan.com/bikes/store06bikes/lg/p2c1.jpg

...i think you're making this more complicated than it has to be...

Thanks for the advise, I appreciate it. But, no I really don't think I am. In my original post, I just asked who else of the Keirin builders was actively building road bikes. I've got 6 road bikes built right now that serve me very well. However, just like everyone else, I'm always looking for the next, cool, fast toy....that's all...:)

Thanks for the advise, I appreciate it. But, no I really don't think I am. In my original post, I just asked who else of the Keirin builders was actively building road bikes. I've got 6 road bikes built right now that serve me very well. However, just like everyone else, I'm always looking for the next, cool, fast toy....that's all...:)


here's (http://pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/bobbesrs/album?.dir=5ec9&.src=ph) my keirin builder built road frame.
e-RICHIE©™®

That's exactly the kind of s**t I'm talking about, e-richie. Thanks...!

Perhaps I just need to wait until a Naga shows up on ebay. Or, I'll just scrap the whole Japanese builder project and bid on that sweet Sachs currently on ebay. No track-like handling, but I think it would ride just fine...!!!!

link to watanabe touring bikes? (hopefully not track geometry)

tourish:

http://popdan.com/hmbs05/images/watanabe1.jpg

more: http://popdan.com/hmbs05/?builder=watanabe

i have an interesting yamaguchi on order that should be ready shortly. i think it might be sorta what yr looking for as i wanted something similar and yamaguchi came up with what he felt interpreted what i conveyed to him. will post pics when i receive it.

if you find a frame that fits your saddle height, and it has a small amount of
trail (the measurement determined vis-a-vis* the head angle along with the
fork rake), it will be twitchy. it's not a steep angle thing nor is it a track thing.
it's a steering geometry thing atmo.
e-RICHIE©™®


* i love french phrases...

i dont build frames and to be honest.. i dont pay too much attention to angles and such.. i just know that the bikes ive had that have been labled "true" track frames are the ones ive enjoyed the most.. and the one labled a 'street' fixed gear was less fun..and i scoured the internets for the road bike version of the track frame i like most on the street because thats what i wanted my road bike to feel like also, and its pretty close.

If gears and a steep seat angle ye seek, a Cervelo P2C ye shall find:

http://www.bikesportmichigan.com/bikes/store06bikes/lg/p2c1.jpg

you gotta love that bikes track ends for maximum wheel tuck when youre rollinn the 20c's

i have an interesting yamaguchi on order that should be ready shortly. i think it might be sorta what yr looking for as i wanted something similar and yamaguchi came up with what he felt interpreted what i conveyed to him. will post pics when i receive it.

Great! I look forward to seeing the pics. The few pictures I've seen of Yamaguchi's work have impressed me. Not the most ornate of bikes, but very fast-looking machines.

Thanks for the responses, everyone!