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I see some cycling guides suggesting the use of the right arm straight out. While I am sure other road users would easily understand the meaning, it just doesn't feel proper to me like the traditional left arm bent up in a 90 degree L. What is your opinion?
EDIT: After posting I realized I should have included a fourth choice: Both, depending on conditions. Unfortunately I don't see a way to add it.
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I use the right arm. Less confusing to those behind me.
I use the left-arm L because it leaves my right hand free to shift the rear derailleur and/or apply the rear brake, plus that's what I'm accustomed to after many years of arm signaling. If I'm on a group ride, I usually make an exception and point with my right arm, because that's what the other riders are accustomed to in my particular group.
I have about given up on using them, I seriously doubt 15% of the motorists on the road even know what you are doing, much less know the signals. And when I am turning I think it is more important to have both hands on the bars.;)
Aaron:)
I have about given up on using them, I seriously doubt 15% of the motorists on the road even know what you are doing, much less know the signals. And when I am turning I think it is more important to have both hands on the bars.;)
Aaron:)You're not supposed to signal while turning, you're supposed to signal before turning ;) That's the point of signalling; to give advance notice.
I think in many cases, the left arm signal will be more noticable and recognizable to motorists.
You're not supposed to signal while turning, you're supposed to signal before turning ;) That's the point of signalling; to give advance notice.
Heheh that's exactly right: signal before the turn, get your hands on the bars through the actual turn.
Cracks me up, I see some folks signaling before, through and after a turn like their arm is a signal on a car or something. :blinka-blinka-blinka:
people always seem to think I'm waving at them if I do the left arm L signal.
I think in many cases, the left arm signal will be more noticable and recognizable to motorists.It would be noticeable here too -- driver's would be thinking, "What's he doing? Checking his antiperspirant?"
Are there any good turn-signal systems for bikes? And if there are, will peace officers accept them in lieu of hand signals? There are certain situations such as going up steep hills, coming down hill fast, or on broken pavement where signaling is too dangerous. There should be an officially accepted communication system (like head tilts) that can be used instead of hand signals.
I checked my local regulations (Code of Alabama) and it requires signaling all turns and stops with the left arm so there is no question about which arm to use. I put one of these on my road bicycle.
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It eliminates any questions about what you're doing.
Right arm.
A long time ago I realized drivers dont know the "L" anymore :eek:
Right arm.
A long time ago I realized drivers dont know the "L" anymore :eek:
I think most folks forget the "L" signal around 5th grade.
I only use the right arm if there is actually a traffic lane with traffic in it to my right, otherwise I stick with signalling with my left arm.
I rarely signal, it only lets drivers know where I am going and they have a better chance hitting me because they are all trying to kill me, right?
All sarcasm aside, I usually look over my left shoulder and then point with the index finger of my right hand. My first statement is not too far from the truth, however, because on more than one occassion, I have had motorists pass me or try to pass me on the RIGHT after signalling, because I usually move left in the lane before making the right turn, and they of course cannot wait 2 seconds to let a bicycle make a turn.
The rare times that I actually signal: Left arm in a L modified with my hand and finger pointing to the right.
Right arm extended, bent at the elbow pointing up with middle finger extended.
The rare times that I actually signal: Left arm in a L modified with my hand and finger pointing to the right.
I'm thinking that's how the L style right turn signal must have originated. If you're driving a car it's not practical to stick an arm out the passenger side window to point right. If you try to point right with your left arm out the window you wind up with something like the L style signal.
Minnesota Statute 169.222 Subd. 8.
"Turning, lane change. An arm signal to turn right or left shall be given continuously during the last 100 fee traveled by the bicycle before turning, unless the arm is needed to control the bicycle, and shall be given while the bicycle is stopped waiting to turn."
Minnesota gives me the choice...i like to choose things...
I use the bent left arm to signal a right turn. The other day, I was riding home from work and I had my hand on the bars, with my middle finger over the brake and the rest of my fingers wrapped around the bar. (Not sure why, it just seemed comfortable at the time.) I signaled a right turn, and a few seconds later the guy in the car behind me yelled something unintelligible at me. Then I realized I had made the signal with just my middle finger sticking up. Oops!
Right arm, pointing straight to the right.. This is permitted by MA law. This is the way I've always done it, and people know immediately what it means.
I think that the left arm, up at an angle, (what some call "the boy scout salute method") is something people learn in driver's ed, then forget within a day or two after passing their road test.
Check your own state's laws, and see what is legal in your state.
I used to use the left arm up at an angle signal, i always got funny looks, then a passenger in a car (valley girl paris hilton type) asked what the He11 that meant, she was at least 19, i was briefly saddened by her ignorance, so now i just point with my right hand.
i signal w/left arm 90 deg, but follow through with pointing (with same left arm) in the direction i'm heading (right). sometimes 2 times, followed by switch to right arm pointing in right turn direction.
i try to make it as simple as possible for others to UNDERSTAND the direction i am headed. this option was not presented in poll...
Left turn and stop signals usually are no issue either, but sometimes it is evidenced that fellow road users (People who drive cages) are less aware of these signals and pose an increased threat to bicyclist safety.
I see some cycling guides suggesting the use of the right arm straight out. While I am sure other road users would easily understand the meaning, it just doesn't feel proper to me like the traditional left arm bent up in a 90 degree L. What is your opinion?
EDIT: After posting I realized I should have included a fourth choice: Both, depending on conditions. Unfortunately I don't see a way to add it.
The L signal originated with the automobile, before they invented electric vehicle lighting. It is still taught, because you need to legally indicate your turns, even if the turn signal stops working (dead bulb, blown fuse, equipment failure, etc.) Since bicycles are not equipped with electric turn signals, it works just as well for us too.
One other thing with signalling, how is it different for an automobile to use red flashing lights (4 ways), and a bicycle to use a flashing red rear light?
TOne other thing with signalling, how is it different for an automobile to use red flashing lights (4 ways), and a bicycle to use a flashing red rear light?
Going under the speed limit you are allowed/must/should use flashers. (Depends on state and type of vehicle.)
As far as the poll, old habits die hard, the right hand thingy just doesn’t feel right. Besides it gives me a chance to wave back to all the motorists who don’t know what I am doing. (Cyclists, they are such a friendly bunch, don’t you know.)
I would say both, depending on the situation. In Toronto, I do the left arm L sign, since people there seem to be fairly up to date on bike signalling. In China, where no one signals, I only use the right arm extended when I feel the need to signal.
I see some cycling guides suggesting the use of the right arm straight out. While I am sure other road users would easily understand the meaning, it just doesn't feel proper to me like the traditional left arm bent up in a 90 degree L. What is your opinion?
Right arm straight out is legal here (Ontario) and so common to that when I see the left arm up signal, I wonder if the cyclist is waiving at someone! Seriously, I very, very rarely see this. Right arm out is far more intuitive, and less prone to causing confusion.
I also use right arm pointing straight ahead, to indicate that I intend to proceed straight through an intersection. Useful for places in which motorists don't expect anyone to go straight (e.g. no through traffic allowed except bikes and busses).
Left arm "L". But I don't point straight up, I raise my arm over my head and point in the direction I'm going. http://homepage.mac.com/awcg/.Pictures/Bike/Left.jpg I have my bikes set up with the front brake in the right hand. I like to keep my hand on my power brake.
--A
I use the left arm, mostly out of habit. As another poster mentioned Mass allows left or right hand indication of a right turn. In order to not get drivers confused with a wave I close my hand into a fist. I also like to imagine this gives the signal more impact but living in Mass with the drivers around here that is probably a dream.
i wasn't sure before, but i just looked it up (again) and and found that oregon allows cyclists to use the right arm for signaling right turns. i was afraid to do that because the cops around here get bored, and i don't want to be "made an example of." so when cars were around i used the left-arm signal. now maybe i'll use the right-arm signal too.
does anyone actually signal a stop? if i signalled for stopping, i'd break my neck. my front brake is on the left-hand side, so it takes like 5 minutes to roll to a stop if i take my left hand off of the bars (and brake lever). how am i supposed to signal a stop and a turn at the same time? start signalling 200 feet ahead of time? oregon law says i have to signal for stops unless it's dangerous to do so. but i don't want to have to go to court to fight a $75 ticket because a cop doesn't understand what is and what isn't safe on a bike. has anyone here ever gotten a ticket for not signalling a stop?
they have those dynohub rear lights that brighten when you hit the brakes. i should just bite the bullet and get one of those systems.
i wasn't sure before, but i just looked it up (again) and and found that oregon allows cyclists to use the right arm for signaling right turns. i was afraid to do that because the cops around here get bored, and i don't want to be "made an example of." so when cars were around i used the left-arm signal. now maybe i'll use the right-arm signal too.
does anyone actually signal a stop? if i signalled for stopping, i'd break my neck. my front brake is on the left-hand side, so it takes like 5 minutes to roll to a stop if i take my left hand off of the bars (and brake lever). how am i supposed to signal a stop and a turn at the same time? start signalling 200 feet ahead of time? oregon law says i have to signal for stops unless it's dangerous to do so. but i don't want to have to go to court to fight a $75 ticket because a cop doesn't understand what is and what isn't safe on a bike. has anyone here ever gotten a ticket for not signalling a stop?
they have those dynohub rear lights that brighten when you hit the brakes. i should just bite the bullet and get one of those systems.
I don't think whats legal or not legal should determine which signal you use. Use the one thats SAFEST. I think pointing with the right arm is much clearer to the majority of cars, and therefore safer.
Remember that the left arm up for a right turn was designed for cars, where drivers can only use thier left arm for signalling, so it reall has no applicability to bicycles. As others have posted, many have no idea what you are doing when you raise your left arm to signal a right turn.
i want to be safe! if i'd thought it was safer to do one or the other, i'd have picked the safer one. at least for my purposes, they're pretty equally safe. there aren't a lot of instances that i've actually *needed* to convey my meaning to cars with a signal--unless the car has a police officer in it :) there isn't a lot of traffic and i don't need to change lanes or anything.
There are a few times I use the left-arm-down slow/stop signal:
1) if I am slowing unexpected, such as to wait for a break in traffic, and there are cyclists behind me;
2) if I am feeling crowded by motorists behind me, a bit like flashing one's brakelights.
Minnesota Statute 169.222 Subd. 8.
"Turning, lane change. An arm signal to turn right or left shall be given continuously ... and shall be given while the bicycle is stopped waiting to turn." ... Would anyone here actually hold an arm outstretched continuously for an entire 2-minute red light cycle? :)
At least they ease the hand signal requirement if one's safety would be compromised. If I am descending a fairly steep hill, I want both hands on the bars, even if I am using the front brake only, and I definitely want to use BOTH brakes smoothly, evenly, and continuously on a wet, gravelly, or otherwise slippery descent.
In Pennsylvania both are legal. I use the right-arm-out signal basically because I think it's more intuitively understandable.
In Utah both are legal as well. I used to use the left arm L, until I noticed that when I did that I frequently had motorists "wave back" as I approached. I decided then that using the right arm to point was clearer to the motorists around me.
Right arm straight out is legal here (Ontario) and so common to that when I see the left arm up signal, I wonder if the cyclist is waiving at someone! Seriously, I very, very rarely see this. What I very rarely see is cyclists ever signalling anything. :rolleyes: An occasional "left" signal while changing lanes, maybe.
I've been like that myself for a long time, until this July. In July I took a cycling safety course (mainly so that I could teach such courses), and I guess the signals got drilled into me (teaching them afterwards for two months straight also did its part :D). I do them pretty much automatically now, even though signalling stops gets pretty annoying when I am going through a small street with a stop sign at every block.
I use either of the two right-turn signals, depending on the condition of the pavement and things like that. I.e. if I feel I'd benefit from a little extra control, I use the left-hand signal, so as to leave my dominant hand on the handlebars. Otherwise I point to the right since I figure it's more intuitive.
As for signalling both a stop and a turn, I signal the stop first (since that's what I'm going to do) and put both hands on the handlebars. Then I signal the turn. The downside is, it might be confusing and make me appear hesitant and unsure of my actions. So sometimes, if there is really only time for one signal, I'll definitely signal the turn first.
I tell you, on some of those residential streets with lots of stop signs and turns I feel like a windmill, whirling my left hand signalling this and that. :D
I don't signal most of the time. I don't really think it modifies driver behaviour and I have never heard of any enforcement of it up here in Toronto.
The one thing about it beyond, that it was devised for cars, is that it is also shown mostly in pictures of folks on very upright posture regular old bikes pre interest in drops or MTBs. The kind of bike miss Marple might drive. With drops or forward body positions it isn't all that easy to get into the left arm position with with the forearm vertical. Just more claptrap by people who don't ride.
Okay, now I understand why that old guy on the MUP kept riding with his right hand sticking out all day. Ba-dump bump.
I don't signal most of the time. I don't really think it modifies driver behaviour and I have never heard of any enforcement of it up here in Toronto. As far as I know, it is not enforced. However, if you want to change lanes, signals do come in handy. ;) I also like to signal if I am "blocking traffic", so as to tell the motorists: "Don't get all worked up about it, I'll be out of your way very soon." I also find it useful to other bikers: if a cyclist behind me sees that I am signalling a right turn, hopefully he won't pass on the right (as too many of them like to do around here!).
The one thing about it beyond, that it was devised for cars, is that it is also shown mostly in pictures of folks on very upright posture regular old bikes pre interest in drops or MTBs. The kind of bike miss Marple might drive. With drops or forward body positions it isn't all that easy to get into the left arm position with with the forearm vertical. Yeah, I notice that even on my MTB that has me relatively upright. But outstretching the right arm works just fine on just about any bike.
I use the left-arm-up 90-degrees signal.
Would anyone here actually hold an arm outstretched continuously for an entire 2-minute red light cycle? :)
You're just dying for a response in the 100% affirmative, aren't you? :)
I myself do signal when preparing to turn at a stoplight, but I wait until I see the crossing pedestrian stop signal start to blink. If there's no ped signal lights, I try to do it ten or so seconds before the light's going to change if I know the timing. If I don't know, I try to get it out there for 15 to 20 seconds before I think the light's going to change just to make my intended path more obvious. I feel like a tool when the signal runs way longer than expected, but better safe than sorry.
Are there any good turn-signal systems for bikes? And if there are, will peace officers accept them in lieu of hand signals?
I've seen them. My LBS has one on display, though I don't remember the brand. Here (http://www.global-merchants.com/home/bike.htm)'s one that came up towards the top of Google, searching for "bicycle turn signals". There are probably more. Their practicality has been debated here before, or you could start a new thread. I've never tried one and don't have an opinion one way or the other.
Would anyone here actually hold an arm outstretched continuously for an entire 2-minute red light cycle? :)
I've wondered about that, but decided it wasn't necessary. (Although I must confess I don't know what the law says.) I compromise by putting my arm out for 10 seconds or so when I first come to a stop, usually after also signalling while slowing down (if possible while also braking and downshifting). Then I signal again for 5-10 seconds just before I start moving, assuming I can monitor when that will be, either by watching the light itself or, if I'm further back in line, when the cars in the front start. (I generally take my place in the full lane while stopped.) Of course I have to put both hands back on the bars when I actually start moving.
I don't think whats legal or not legal should determine which signal you use. Use the one thats SAFEST. I think pointing with the right arm is much clearer to the majority of cars, and therefore safer.
Remember that the left arm up for a right turn was designed for cars, where drivers can only use thier left arm for signalling, so it reall has no applicability to bicycles. As others have posted, many have no idea what you are doing when you raise your left arm to signal a right turn.
+1
IMO, the left-hand right turn signal is next to useless for conveying your intentions to motorists. The vast majority have no idea what that "Old School" signal means. Using your left hand may feel more "correct" if you're of a certain age, or if you feel the need to follow the letter of your local laws, but it's a meaningless gesticulation from the viewpoint of most drivers.
I voted right arm but I don't remember ever using it because I never felt the need. The only signal I use is to turn left... and the odd upward turn signal.
Right arm.
A long time ago I realized drivers dont know the "L" anymore :eek:
Plus I've always found the left arm signal to put me in an ackward position for right hand turns. As I make a right hand turn, I'm always pushing on the left hand pedal and left side of the bar. Point with the right hand just makes it easier to set up the turn.
I point with my left arm when turning left, and my right turning right...
Most cagerers get it.
Left and right arm turn signals for a right turn are legal here.
Before the turn, I use the right arm straight out, and index finger pointing where I intend to go. Before I actually begin my turn I have both hands on the bars.
I use my right arm straight out when coming to a four way stop, if I am just sitting in a turn lane waiting for a light I dont signal cause I dont want to look like a goof with my right arm out for 4 minutes straight.
This poll needs a "both" choice. When I resumed cycling this spring, I was using just the right arm, but trial and error has shown me that sometimes the L works better. Now I tend to use the L when I don't think cars can see my right arm at certain intersections. I've noticed the L is ideal for when buses are doing their curb ballet around me. I think my right arm gets lost in the scenery somehow. Drivers who appear 60+ seem to recognize the L faster. I use the right arm consistently when I need communicate to pedestrians and other cyclists.
You're not supposed to signal while turning, you're supposed to signal before turning ;) That's the point of signalling; to give advance notice.
Agree, but in some cases it depends on the streets too. In the suburbs where I live I frequently have to cross streets with 3 -4 lanes with 40-50 mph speed limits from the bike lane to a turning left lane at the stoplight. I look back and if I see cars in some distance I hold out my left hand, pointed a little down and sometimes waving it a bit for attention while crossing all the lanes. While turning I of course look continously back to watch the traffic. In most cases this seems to get the point across and at least makes them them not to speed up and trying to kill me.
As far as signaling, I only do it occasionally out of courtesy for motorists if they clearly have seen me and don't know were I intend to go. Signaling any other way than holding out the left or right arm have always seemed odd to me. This method works best IME and is the most logical to me regardless of what the DMV says.
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