Over the past year, at least, there has been in increase in violence & violent crime. This has been & continue to affect cyclists as well. There are some recent threads about violence to cyclists. So we are not immune to it. Cite what ever reasons you wish to. Stress from the war in Iraq, high gas prices, increase in cost of living with out an increase in pay to compensate for it, what ever. No reason or excuse is good enough for violence against anyone, regardless.

I'm sure everyone is familiar with the "kill them with kindness" saying. That does not even seem to work anymore.

A concern I have is someone from the forum is going to be hurt or worse because of some pissed off, enraged, stressed out motorist. It may not even be a motorist one of us cyclists has any interaction or words with at all.

The question is what can cyclists do about it to help ourselves?

Do we become more aware & alert then we usually are? Do we not take anything at all for granted? I am very alert & aware at all time, especialy on a bike & I try not to take anything for granted. But sometimes it is not always easy.

I am not saying we should give up riding or become so paranoid we do not enjoy it. But I have a feeling the violence is going to get worse before it gets better. It is now affecting the quality of life in certain areas. So what can be done about? Do we trust our govt. on all levels to deal with it or do we take a proactive approach to it?

I would be curious to see whether this perceived increase level of violence is borne out by statistics or whether it is a product of watching the latest mess on the evening news or being on the receiving end of idiocy as you were earlier (thread on enraged driver). I remember people here being all in a panic about violent crime a few years back while the actual crime rates were falling significantly.

"The violent crime category includes murder and nonnegligent manslaughter, forcible rape, robbery, and aggravated assault offenses. Nationally, preliminary data for 2005 showed increases in three of the four violent crimes from the previous year’s data. The number of murders and nonnegligent manslaughters rose 4.8 percent. Robbery offenses increased 4.5 percent, and the number of aggravated assaults was up 1.9 percent. Forcible rape was the only offense among the violent crimes that decreased in volume in 2005, down 1.9 percent from the 2004 figure."

http://www.fbi.gov/pressrel/pressrel06/prelim2005061206.htm

Violent crime is definitely up. Whether this is something that cyclists should worry about, I cannot say.

I don't know if there's very much that cyclists can do as a group to change these trends. I'm not really one for conversion (whether it's cycling, religion, OS choice or whatever) through preaching and evangelism, and think the best way to effect change in others is to live as good a life as you can yourself. Let people know that you are available to answer questions, and let them know your point of view -- but don't force your opinions on them.

It may not be the quickest way to get things done, but I think change is much more permanent when people come around to it themselves -- and it creates much less resentment and misunderstanding in the mean time. Yes, I know it sounds trite, but I stand by it!

Edit: On the note of getting people to change on their own, that is not to say that certain changes cannot be encouraged. It is possible to create an environment which encourages a change, without actually forcing it. That way, people don't think they are being coerced into adopting new opinions or patterns. Of course, the question is how to create such an environment -- and I don't know how to answer that!

That is exactly why I carry a gun.
Just like homeowners insurance, I'd rather have it and not need it than need it and not have it. :)

Culturely, the government, the selfishness of the *ME* oriented society, America
has lost respect for the value of life in general. Human, animal and environmental.
Technology, car based infrastructure....all make it very easy and convenient
for people to vent thier anger in complete anonimity. It will take an awakening of
biblical proportions for it to change. A lot of people are addicted to anger and love
violence. Almost any mainstream cultural medium or a look at a newspaper will prove
this succinctly.

+1

I think it will take at least 1 and possibly 2 generations to get past the selfish ME's. So many pride themselves in not being dependent any more. They are relishing the independence from everything. Hopefully they will complete the maturity cycle and advance to interdependence in our lifetime.

Which country?

If you define quality of life as more roads and more time in a car you get frustration. People need fresh air and some exercise.

Which country?

Sorry, I should have specified the United States.

I don't know if there's very much that cyclists can do as a group to change these trends. I'm not really one for conversion (whether it's cycling, religion, OS choice or whatever) through preaching and evangelism, and think the best way to effect change in others is to live as good a life as you can yourself. Let people know that you are available to answer questions, and let them know your point of view -- but don't force your opinions on them.

It may not be the quickest way to get things done, but I think change is much more permanent when people come around to it themselves -- and it creates much less resentment and misunderstanding in the mean time. Yes, I know it sounds trite, but I stand by it!

Edit: On the note of getting people to change on their own, that is not to say that certain changes cannot be encouraged. It is possible to create an environment which encourages a change, without actually forcing it. That way, people don't think they are being coerced into adopting new opinions or patterns. Of course, the question is how to create such an environment -- and I don't know how to answer that!

This was sent to me by a Brother Mason, I am a member of the Masonic Fratertinity. This is how I try to live my life. I think it goes aling with what you said, or at least it is a good example of it. I am not trying to force my opinions on anyone else. Just sharing how I try to live. Sometimes it is difficult & I have to focus & not let things get out of hand. In a sense I try to lead by example from what I have learned since I have joined my lodge from my brethren & have hopefully passed this on to others, not by word but by example. At times when I do not succeed at living this way I am my own worst enemy & can be pretty hard on myself, but I do not take it out on others. Check it out:

"Masonic Compact

Because I am a Freemason …

I believe that freedom of religion is an inalienable right and tolerance an indispensable trait of human character; therefore, I will stand in my Lodge with Brothers of all faiths, and respect their beliefs as they respect mine, and I will demonstrate the spirit of Brotherhood in all aspects of my life.

I know that education and the rational use of the mind are the keys to facing the problems of humanity; therefore, I will bring my questions and my ideas to my Lodge, and strive to advance the growth of my mind alongside my Brothers.

I know that the rich tradition of Freemasonry and its framework of Ritual are important platforms for growth and learning; therefore, I vow to stand upon these platforms to improve myself as a human being, and I vow to help in the mission of the Craft to provide tools, atmosphere, challenges and motivation to help each Brother do the same.

I know that charity is the distinguishing human virtue, and that personal community service is the best demonstration of one’s commitment to humanity; I acknowledge that words without deeds are meaningless, and I vow to work with my Lodge to provide service to the community, and to promote charity, friendship, morality, harmony, integrity, fidelity and love.

I know that my obligation to community extends beyond my local sphere and is partly fulfilled in my patriotism: love of my country, obedience to its laws and celebration of the freedoms and opportunities it symbolizes.

I know that leadership is best demonstrated by commitment to serving others; I will therefore participate in, and help work at improving individual leadership skills, and serve the Brothers of my Lodge to the best of my ability.

I know that friendship, fidelity and family are the foundation of a well-lived life; I therefore vow to be a faithful friend to my Brothers, as I expect my Lodge to respect my personal obligations, and to treat my family as though my family were their own.

I know that the last great lesson of Freemasonry – the value of personal integrity and the sanctity of one’s word - is a lesson for all people in all times; I therefore vow to be a man of my word.

I know that Masonry’s power is best exercised when its Light is shared with the world at large; I therefore vow to bring the best of myself to my Lodge, in order that my growth might be fostered and nurtured, and to present myself to the world as a working Freemason, on the path to building a most perfect temple.

Because I am a Freemason,

these values and aspirations are guideposts for my progress through life."

These purpose of these ideals that Mason's learn & teach is to take it out beyond the walls of our lodge & share it with the world. The way I do so is by example & leading a good life. I do not want to use words because I am concerned it would be viewed as forcing my ideals on someone else.

Cheer Up Folk. See all this violence as an opportunity to improve your shooting skills. Check out the "Carrying while Biking Thread". I've lived some 5 years in the Near East and Africa and I wish I'd had your problems when I was over there. The Sumerians had trouble with the Akkadians, The Romans with the Goths (wait a minute, we still have Goths), The Greeks and the Turks have been at it since Troy. Life would be all dull and boring :rolleyes: otherwise. Besides if you take a mainstream media or a local paper report as validating a trend I have some swampland in Louisiana to sell you.

Over the past year, at least, there has been in increase in violence & violent crime. This has been & continue to affect cyclists as well. There are some recent threads about violence to cyclists. So we are not immune to it. Cite what ever reasons you wish to. Stress from the war in Iraq, high gas prices, increase in cost of living with out an increase in pay to compensate for it, what ever. No reason or excuse is good enough for violence against anyone, regardless.

I'm sure everyone is familiar with the "kill them with kindness" saying. That does not even seem to work anymore.

A concern I have is someone from the forum is going to be hurt or worse because of some pissed off, enraged, stressed out motorist. It may not even be a motorist one of us cyclists has any interaction or words with at all.

The question is what can cyclists do about it to help ourselves?

Do we become more aware & alert then we usually are? Do we not take anything at all for granted? I am very alert & aware at all time, especialy on a bike & I try not to take anything for granted. But sometimes it is not always easy.

I am not saying we should give up riding or become so paranoid we do not enjoy it. But I have a feeling the violence is going to get worse before it gets better. It is now affecting the quality of life in certain areas. So what can be done about? Do we trust our govt. on all levels to deal with it or do we take a proactive approach to it?

This phenomenon is an American problem primarily, although Canada isn't far behind. I am not sure there is much cyclists can do, other then try to avoid situations where they don't act like a road vehicle. Think about it, as a driver though, not as a cyclist.

Here you are, your sitting in your car, you had the day from hell at work, your boss chewed you out, you fought with clients all day, you were supposed to leave at 4 but didn't get away until 6:30. You live 25 minutes from work, you left work at 6:30 and it's now closing in on 8:00 your car has been in the same spot long enough that they could charge for parking. Since your supper is long missed, you stopped at a burger place, the burger was dreadful, heck the box probably tastes better, and it's plastic, the fries weren't bad, but they consist of sodium and starch soaked in animal fats, not good for your quickly expanding waist line. The sugar with sodium with enough water to make it flow through the straw, and chemicals that make it look and taste like something else, don't help either, but it's what passes for soda these days. The sodium doesn't help your blood pressure either, which on a good day is bad. You have been so stressed out lately, that you started smoking again, your a trainwreck headed for the cardiac ward, and your not even 35 yet.

Then you see it, gently, and quietly spinning between the lanes of traffic, a guy on a bicycle. The guy is wearing cycling clothes, the shorts showing off powerful leg muscles, and the fact he doesn't have the big gut you do, the tufts of white hair peaking out from under the helmet, and character lined face show that he has more then a few years on you as well, heck he isn't even breathing hard (not a smoker, that's for sure), and certainly doesn't have the red face, that denotes high blood pressure. You explode in rage, not at yourself, because you have been constantly taught, that every problem is someone elses fault, but at the old guy on the bike. So you yell and scream for him to get off the road, or act out your aggression violently. You tried to toss the soda cup out the passenger window, why does the AC always crap out when it's 100F outside? The lip caught the bottom of the window, and your car got a soda bath, you see a little dripping from the bikes rear fender, so he must have ridden through some of it.

The American media doesn't help, they splash the violence across the airwaves, so much so, that it becomes common place and normal, people get desensitized to it, and people who are desensitized to violent acts, are more likely to act them out.

Besides if you take a mainstream media or a local paper report as validating a trend I have some swampland in Louisiana to sell you.

+1

But you can't sell my backyard with giving me a cut.
:D

Why are Freemasons so secretive about thier society ?
I have been friends with a few Freemasons in my life and despite
our close nature they were very ellusive about that organization.
With the quoted post, you have become the most open person
I have seen about it. The stuff you read about them on the internet
goes the gamut from Xanu-scientology to a harmless, neighborhood
benevolant organization.
Enquiring minds want to know ;)

Let's continue this in the P&RII forum room. I'll post a thread there. I only wanted to share how I try to live my life by posting that here.

Wogsterca- vivid scene of emblematic driver frustrations, and clear jabs at the American car psyche.....very well painted, wogsterca!

Which country?

You beat me to it! ;)

The American media doesn't help, they splash the violence across the airwaves, so much so, that it becomes common place and normal, people get desensitized to it, and people who are desensitized to violent acts, are more likely to act them out.

You have a point. When every violent crime is emphasized by the media, people get a skewed perspective of what is really happening, while at the same time normalizing those same acts. Violent crime is down in most parts of Canada, yet I suspect most Canadians would say it is going up. (StatsCan (http://www.statcan.ca/Daily/English/040728/d040728a.htm) shows a slight increase is 2003, but stil well below previous levels).

I believe crime trends , mostly follow economic indicators. Some sage once said , any one of us are three meals away from doing something desperate. I don't agree; I'd say more like 15.
My only suggestion as to keeping cyclists safe. Should you live in an unsafe area, go to where people aren't.

The media rules! This is also why 49 people dying in an unfortunate place crash makes the news for several days, and even causes controversy at the Grammys... while the 49 people that died on our country's roads that day (and every day) never even get a thought...

Reality, or perception of reality? All beought to you by the information age!

Az

Wogsterca- vivid scene of emblematic driver frustrations, and clear jabs at the American car psyche.....very well painted, wogsterca!

I though someone would enjoy that, now if only I could make some dinari writing this stuff.... Mind you I am looking for a new career:D

I am not certain I concur with the assumption that violent crime is up in this country. Oh, sure, you read about it and see it plastered all over the news. But, I wonder, on a per capita basis if statistics bear out the assumption that crime is up. There are plenty of TV shows that rake in big money for their creators/participants/sponsors/networks, etc that feed on the fantastic, almost unbelievable accounts of violence and other strange behavior. All of that media saturation adds to the perception that there is an increase in that sort of activity.

If we compared our society to that of the Wild West, I wonder which would prove to be less violent.

Just food for thought.

Caruso

When you ride around on your high horse you become an easy target capiche?

Last summer, we had the media-named 'summer of the gun' when there was a dramatic increase in gun violence in Toronto. However, the actual murder rate remained about the same, perhaps 4 or 5 more than previous years. In forums that I attend, unrelated to bicycling, I pointed out that while the public was yelling and screaming for an increase in the number of police officers and greater attention to gangs (as most of the murders were gang-related), if we compared our city against a similar-sized American city, the results were sobering. Chicago has a marginally larger population, according to official stats (but take into consideration that there are often varying considerations of what makes up the Greater Toronto Area - GTA: some incorrectly include Mississauga and Pickering) so the numbers are incosistent). In the actual GTA with a population of about 3 million, we had about 65 murders in 2005 whereas Chicago realized a sharp decrease from 650 (approx) to 580 (approx). Chicago has ten times the number of police and still has about ten times the number of murders. It's a startling comparison, but an indicator that violent crime is not rising, at least not by a steady, sustainable margin.

The Original Question was a concern about how violence is getting worse and thus effecting are quality of daily life :

"""Over the past year, at least, there has been in increase in violence & violent crime. This has been & continue to affect cyclists as well...But I have a feeling the violence is going to get worse before it gets better. It is now affecting the quality of life in certain areas."""

The answer to the question (i.e. the real data) was this:

"""The number of murders and nonnegligent manslaughters rose 4.8 percent. Robbery offenses increased 4.5 percent, and the number of aggravated assaults was up 1.9 percent. """

Olden's observation: These itsy-bitsy, teeny, tiny, single digit increases in crime are obviosly going to change 'the quality of life in certain areas', but only by a *very* small amount, given the above unalarming stats.

Some years they are up a tad, in others they're down a mite, (yawn).

Bad economics= people gotta do something to fill in their time.
Idle minds is the devil's workshop. Was that not Benjamin Franklin.?

This phenomenon is an American problem primarily, although Canada isn't far behind. I am not sure there is much cyclists can do, other then try to avoid situations where they don't act like a road vehicle. Think about it, as a driver though, not as a cyclist.

Here you are, your sitting in your car, you had the day from hell at work, your boss chewed you out, you fought with clients all day, you were supposed to leave at 4 but didn't get away until 6:30. You live 25 minutes from work, you left work at 6:30 and it's now closing in on 8:00 your car has been in the same spot long enough that they could charge for parking. Since your supper is long missed, you stopped at a burger place, the burger was dreadful, heck the box probably tastes better, and it's plastic, the fries weren't bad, but they consist of sodium and starch soaked in animal fats, not good for your quickly expanding waist line. The sugar with sodium with enough water to make it flow through the straw, and chemicals that make it look and taste like something else, don't help either, but it's what passes for soda these days. The sodium doesn't help your blood pressure either, which on a good day is bad. You have been so stressed out lately, that you started smoking again, your a trainwreck headed for the cardiac ward, and your not even 35 yet.

Then you see it, gently, and quietly spinning between the lanes of traffic, a guy on a bicycle. The guy is wearing cycling clothes, the shorts showing off powerful leg muscles, and the fact he doesn't have the big gut you do, the tufts of white hair peaking out from under the helmet, and character lined face show that he has more then a few years on you as well, heck he isn't even breathing hard (not a smoker, that's for sure), and certainly doesn't have the red face, that denotes high blood pressure. You explode in rage, not at yourself, because you have been constantly taught, that every problem is someone elses fault, but at the old guy on the bike. So you yell and scream for him to get off the road, or act out your aggression violently. You tried to toss the soda cup out the passenger window, why does the AC always crap out when it's 100F outside? The lip caught the bottom of the window, and your car got a soda bath, you see a little dripping from the bikes rear fender, so he must have ridden through some of it.

The American media doesn't help, they splash the violence across the airwaves, so much so, that it becomes common place and normal, people get desensitized to it, and people who are desensitized to violent acts, are more likely to act them out.

Ha Ha good story :)

I don't think that they hate us because we are fit and healthy though. I think they hate us plain and simply because we are in their way. We may slow them down slightly and for some ( a lot) it's too much to handle. They think we don't belong on 'Our' roads. Roads are for cars etc...

Also cars are marketed as aggressive driving machines. Almost ever single car commercial shows a car or SUV whipping around fast corners free flowing form on traffic less roads. People are so stupid that these simple minded suggestions actually sink into there personas.

I don't know if there's very much that cyclists can do as a group to change these trends. I'm not really one for conversion (whether it's cycling, religion, OS choice or whatever) through preaching and evangelism, and think the best way to effect change in others is to live as good a life as you can yourself. Let people know that you are available to answer questions, and let them know your point of view -- but don't force your opinions on them.

It may not be the quickest way to get things done, but I think change is much more permanent when people come around to it themselves -- and it creates much less resentment and misunderstanding in the mean time. Yes, I know it sounds trite, but I stand by it!

Edit: On the note of getting people to change on their own, that is not to say that certain changes cannot be encouraged. It is possible to create an environment which encourages a change, without actually forcing it. That way, people don't think they are being coerced into adopting new opinions or patterns. Of course, the question is how to create such an environment -- and I don't know how to answer that!

Whoa...+1 to all that, especially "live as good a life as you can yourself. Let people know that you are available to answer questions, and let them know your point of view -- but don't force your opinions on them."

Thats the way I try to live my life. Kudos to you my friend.

I don't think that they hate us because we are fit and healthy though. I think they hate us plain and simply because we are in their way.

Give this man a cigar!

http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/2005-06-06-crime-drop_x.htm?POE=NEWISVA

Up or down? Who knows? The more local news you watch, the worse your perception of reality. I have always felt safe while riding in Pittsburgh, and the other US places that I have lived -- Madison WI, Gainesville, FL and Olympia WA.

I figure that I can easily outrun or totally avoid most bad people. I do not spend more than 15 - 30 minutes going through poor areas per day, and I don’t ride that much late in the evening. I do ride the city streets, in large public parks and cemeteries and see few troublemakers. No significant violent crime has been reported in Pittsburgh parks, since a female jogger was killed more than 10 years back.

I prefer to live where there are decent public education and heath services, free swimming pools, and unfettered birth counseling, than in areas that do not have good public services. I figure that these all make my life better and more pleasant than living in the alternative – a police state.

Ha Ha good story :)

I don't think that they hate us because we are fit and healthy though. I think they hate us plain and simply because we are in their way. We may slow them down slightly and for some ( a lot) it's too much to handle. They think we don't belong on 'Our' roads. Roads are for cars etc...

Also cars are marketed as aggressive driving machines. Almost ever single car commercial shows a car or SUV whipping around fast corners free flowing form on traffic less roads. People are so stupid that these simple minded suggestions actually sink into there personas.

But if we are only in their way long enough for them to sip on that soda, how can that mean anything in the overall scheme of things?

I think a lot of it does have to do with frustration and unfulfilled promise. The auto ads on TV promise "zoom zoom," the burger ads said "delicious, hot and steamy," and last of all being that it was near 8:00, "Survivor" is nearly on...

The motorist wants instant "promised" gratification and the only one getting any gratification is that "stupid cyclist" that just flew by...

Opps, there goes the rage... and guess who it is directed at?

After all, when was the last time you heard of a motorist throwing a soda at a slow cement truck?

Two trails I used to ride on in California. One a cyclist got mugged in a booby trap and another shot. The cyclist who was shot lived.

So are the raw numbers going up or is this per capita. 4.8% could very well be the population rate.

http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/fastats/deaths.htm

Over the past forty years the population growth over the previous 10 years has been as follows:

1970 13%
1980 11%
1990 10%
2000 13%

Ha Ha good story :)

I don't think that they hate us because we are fit and healthy though. I think they hate us plain and simply because we are in their way. We may slow them down slightly and for some ( a lot) it's too much to handle. They think we don't belong on 'Our' roads. Roads are for cars etc...

Also cars are marketed as aggressive driving machines. Almost ever single car commercial shows a car or SUV whipping around fast corners free flowing form on traffic less roads. People are so stupid that these simple minded suggestions actually sink into there personas.

Very Good! I think that the "fit and healthy" aspect does play into it though. I admit, I sometimes listen to local (Boston area) talk radio, just to see what the rant dujour is. One day, the subjects of hostility were not cyclists, but joggers. One caller after another were calling in to rant about "those damn joggers". This went on and on, with complaints about how "they run right in front of me", and "I'm so tired of all those sick looking people running around almost naked!" That one came from a female caller who had the raspy voice of a serious smoker.

I just have to shake my head and chuckle when I hear this. So, I do think the the fit and healthy angle does play into it. Why? well, who knows, maybe they think we're all going to gang up on them and take away their cigarettes, soda and Mickey D's food. One must remember, this is the land of "Nobody tells ME what to do!" Is that just an American condition, or does it exist elsewhere?

By the Way Chipcom, nice new Avatar.

Yeah the "fit and healthy" aspect stems from folks knowing that they should be doing "something," but cannot or do not for whatever reason and then we come along and they feel guilty.

The response is then rage vented in aggression... coupled with the feeling that bicycles are toys and don't belong on the road that gas and tire tax (false) bought.

Oh the rationalizations just pile up... just to relieve that mother, guilt.

By the Way Chipcom, nice new Avatar.

Can ya tell I am looking sideways, or do I look like I am telling Grasshopper to snatch the pebble from my hand?

http://www.alibali.net/images/kungfumasterpo.jpg

As long as Americans love alcohol, and treat women as sex objects, there will always be violence in this country...

As long as Americans love alcohol, and treat women as sex objects, there will always be violence in this country...

I imagine because alcohol reduces inhibitions and increases impulsivity it would exacerbate a violent situation, but alcohol won't make a non-violent person suddenly violent. Just as it won't make you an anti-semite if you weren't already one.

For the most part violent people are violent because they were taught to resolve conflicts with violence. Medical conditions probably make up the rest of the violent people. For example, some people with bipolar disorder become violent during their manic phases. When treated with proper medication, the violent behavior disappears.

Humans are really just animals with better manners and some clothing. Some of us were not taught enough or early enough to get away from our primal instincts. If this continues into adult-hood you have a maladjusted individual or a criminal as determined by societal norms.

Although it is crude and immature to view women as objects, I am not sure that necessarily results in violence. It probably results in a lack of respect for women in general, but I don't see how being disrespectful and rude automatically results in violence. It is part of the equation for many violent crimes, but I don't think it creates the violence in most cases.

Can ya tell I am looking sideways, or do I look like I am telling Grasshopper to snatch the pebble from my hand?


You look like you just got away with something.