I was biking home alone from work when all of a sudden a fellow biker came up next to me pedaling away. I asked him if he was commuting home from work and he said yes. He worked at the same place as I do but, since the place has close to 5000 employees I really did not know him.

We talked a little along our trip and the conversation got into biking for transportation. I mentiond how I use to run for exercise and then mentioned how biking is saving my knees some and I am saving money, the environment, and such.

He talked on how he been biking and such as well. I started to talk about cars a little in saying how much more people could bike vs use a car. To him he only really biked to work for the exercise. After me mentioning all the waste that cars produce, and the time that it take me to get to work by bike, he abrutully and deffensivly said, " I LIKE CARS ! ", "" there is a lot of stuff that I could not do without it ""

To say the least I was a little taken back. As we were pedaling along I said yes they are really nice and I agree, but Most People do not think it is impossible that bikes can in some instances provide or replace transportation that is just as effective as a car. He kind of mumbled a bit but did not say much.

I then said Heck I use to be a BIKE hater and non beliver a few years ago. I then told him many of my friends are asking questions on how I am doing and how it can be done.

He then softly agreed with me and stated " oh yes once you get over the mind set of what bikes can do it is pretty good for transportation.""

Anyway after a short conversation we parted ways, but was left with a dissapointing feel.

I did not try to push my ideas on the fellow biker it is just that he was already defensive about cars/ bikes even thou he had been biking for about 27 years.

It made me realize that folks who commute to work have many different reasons to bike to work.

Unfortunetly, I do not see a common voice in inspiring the AMERICAN public to do more biking in an effort to save money, resources, environment, and reducing our weight.

I can understand your disappointment, I hope I can give you some perspective on this. Sadly not enough people are philanthropists. However, so long as people are doing good, do their motivations really matter? This fellow is biking to work, whether he does it for exercise or for the good of the world, it still has the same effect. Large systemic change will only come from desperation and struggle, until then I will take what I can get.

I have had seven roommates this year, all aware and understanding of how I can live without a car, none of them have changed their behaviors even confronted with my ease of living, positive attitude, and beautiful bulging quadracepts. Being agry with them would only make my life harder, it wouldn't stop them from driving 8 blocks to school or 12 to the store.

Some people are never going to "get it". I was sitting in a local restaurant having lunch, I watched a person come out of a store in an adjacent strip mall (appeared to be an employee) get in her car. Drove to the other end of the strip mall, get out of the car and go into a sub shop. Came out of the sub shop carrying a bag and 2 drinks, got back into the car and drove back to the end of the strip mall where she had started, parked and reentered the store she came out of:eek: and I bet if you asked she would be whining about the high cost of gas:D

Aaron:)

He may actually need a car for some activities. Maybe he goes camping and likes to haul two kayaks with him. Maybe he has a business on the side hauling dirt. Maybe he fixes up classic cars. It's best to get the whole story before accusing him of such ignorance.

Lead by example. The smart ones will catch on.

Lead by example. The smart ones will catch on.
+1 to that.
I stopped wasting mental energy on what other people do a long time ago. The best way to change hearts and minds is to lead by example.

From the top ten conversation killers, skipping right to #1:

1. I'm carfree and you can be carfree too.

From the top ten conversation killers, skipping right to #1:

1. I'm carfree and you can be carfree too.
I'd say it is a tie with "I'm a vegan (or born-again) and you should be too."

Though I'm car-free I truly don't believe that all people should be car-free or even strive to be car-free. Car-lite is much more reasonable for people to understand & attempt. Let's face it, America by & large is not geared toward a car-free lifestyle. Those of us who are car-free do make sacrifices & not always on some altruistic level to justify our decision. One does have to be a pretty strong willed & determined person to be car-free in America & I'm not saying that those who are not car-free are weak or meager in any way.

If you're interested in "converting the masses", best of luck to you but I wouldn't fret whenever someone does not see things your way, or as some on this forum would try to have us believe, *cough* *cough* "our way" *cough* *cough*. :rolleyes:

Enjoy your bike ride & smile, it's much less stressful. :)

I'd say it is a tie with "I'm a vegan (or born-again) and you should be too."

"I don't have a TV and I'm intellectually superior to you." (paraphrasing) is good also.

Perhaps your conversation wasn't fruitless at all.

In my opinion, it is enough for me to show people that I can live car-free. If you go out to convert people, you'll likely end up disappointed. If you aim to show people that living car-free is cheaper, easier, more enjoyable... perhaps that's plenty. Perhaps its enough just to show people that it is possible.

I agree that you can't push people too much. The best approach for me is to be very positive and truthful about my own experiences being carfree and riding.

That said, it is frustrating when people tell you that it is impossible to do something (be carfree) that you actually do with great ease and enjoyment. Sometimes the most I can say is, "But...but...What about ME?"

He may actually need a car for some activities. Maybe he goes camping and likes to haul two kayaks with him. Maybe he has a business on the side hauling dirt. Maybe he fixes up classic cars. It's best to get the whole story before accusing him of such ignorance.

Amen. Add to that skiing/snowboarding, surfing, and any of a hundred other healthy outdoor activities that are, in all likelihood, too far away to transport the required equipment by bike in a reasonable amount of time. I spent 4 days in Boston, and 3 in Vermont each week from Thanksgiving through Easter, working 70+ hours a week, and having to transport a lot of things to/from VT each time or risk smelling something awful by Christmas. I love it but there's absolutely no possible way I could make it work without a car.

"I don't have a TV and I'm intellectually superior to you." (paraphrasing) is good also.
Yep, that is a winner, too. As well as "I/WE don't have to overcome linadequate physical equipment by driving a big car/SUV."

Some people are never going to "get it". I was sitting in a local restaurant having lunch, I watched a person come out of a store in an adjacent strip mall (appeared to be an employee) get in her car. Drove to the other end of the strip mall, get out of the car and go into a sub shop. Came out of the sub shop carrying a bag and 2 drinks, got back into the car and drove back to the end of the strip mall where she had started, parked and reentered the store she came out of:eek: and I bet if you asked she would be whining about the high cost of gas:D

Aaron:)


You think that's bad? Here in CA I've seen people literally walk to their cars, get in, drive ~10 spaces down, park, and walk to another store. They actually looked a bit puzzled, like they kinda understood what they did was pointless, but they shook it off in a second. They knew that it would've been shorter for them to walk directly to the other store, but took the car... Now that's good training for ya! ;)

It seems that a Buddhist approach is better in "converting" one to car free. I live my life this way if you choose to hear about it just ask. Which is not as fast (or as measurable) as the Christian conversion method of killing you if you don't want to be car free..

Best approach for initial contact (First impressions, first dates, job interviews, etc.) is to just show that you are normal.

You can evangelize about your politics/diet/chain lube preference/religion ideas later, after you establish basic credibility.

Some people are never going to "get it". I was sitting in a local restaurant having lunch, I watched a person come out of a store in an adjacent strip mall (appeared to be an employee) get in her car. Drove to the other end of the strip mall, get out of the car and go into a sub shop. Came out of the sub shop carrying a bag and 2 drinks, got back into the car and drove back to the end of the strip mall where she had started, parked and reentered the store she came out of:eek: and I bet if you asked she would be whining about the high cost of gas:D

Aaron:)

I had a boss at one of my jobs that would get into his SUV and drive to the mail box. It was literaly about 50 yards. I use to know the guy about 5 years previously and he was in great shape, but at this part of his life he was a lard ass. A good 100 lbs overweight. You'd think he'd walk to the mailbox and maybe burn off some fat.

Best approach for initial contact (First impressions, first dates, job interviews, etc.) is to just show that you are normal.
....
That's a pretty tall order for some of us! :D

What about the ones that will drive around a parking lot for ten minutes looking for the closest parking space to the store, or sit and wait for someone to move, when they could have already parked and walked in eight minutes ago.

What about the ones that will drive around a parking lot for ten minutes looking for the closest parking space to the store, or sit and wait for someone to move, when they could have already parked and walked in eight minutes ago.
What about them?

"I don't have a TV and I'm intellectually superior to you." (paraphrasing) is good also.
And the similar questions...
Katie Who? Paris Who? American Idol, what's that?

After me mentioning all the waste that cars produce, and the time that it take me to get to work by bike, he abruptly and defensively said, " I LIKE CARS ! ", " there is a lot of stuff that I could not do without it "

He wouldn't have been so defensive if he didn't have doubts himself. I can understand your acquaintences ambivalence. My grandfather was an oil company exec. My parents were into sports car rallies (I got my first 1st place navigator's trophy in it at age 9). Growing up, I wanted to be an automobile designer.

But things happened to change my direction.... We couldn't afford Art Center. The gas crisis made me think tha car design had hit a major downturn. I moved out on my own without having actually bought a car(In L.A. no less).

I still love cars. I own one, but its key hasn't been turned in over a year. It's still got the same gas I put in it on the day I bought it and I do all my transportation by bike or public transport. So I understand his mixed feelings. But at least the fellow was there, bicycling to and from work. That's a lot better than most people.

It made me realize that folks who commute to work have many different reasons to bike to work.

Unfortunetly, I do not see a common voice in inspiring the AMERICAN public to do more biking in an effort to save money, resources, environment, and reducing our weight.

You should be glad that "mainstream" people are coming to realize that cars are no longer the optimal vehicles for many urban trips. That's potentially far more important than whether someone is carfree as a matter of ideology.

Besides, would someone who really liked their car necessarily want to subject it to the wear and tear of short-trip commuting?

Paul

I can understand your disappointment, I hope I can give you some perspective on this. Sadly not enough people are philanthropists. However, so long as people are doing good, do their motivations really matter? This fellow is biking to work, whether he does it for exercise or for the good of the world, it still has the same effect. Large systemic change will only come from desperation and struggle, until then I will take what I can get.

I have had seven roommates this year, all aware and understanding of how I can live without a car, none of them have changed their behaviors even confronted with my ease of living, positive attitude, and beautiful bulging quadracepts. Being agry with them would only make my life harder, it wouldn't stop them from driving 8 blocks to school or 12 to the store.


I have to agree with the statement regarding large systemic change coming from desperation and struggle - the oil shocks of the 70's caused our society to drive much more efficient cars for about a decade. The Terrorist attacks of 9/11 caused all kinds of changes in the last five years.

Because of how close supply is running to demand right now for oil, similar if not worse shocks are quite possibly right around the corner. This doesn't even factor in peak oil or global climate change! So it will be "interesting" to see what sort of changes happen in society - hopefully we will be able to make internal changes in how we do things rather than using our military in an attempt to avoid making such changes.

[shameless plug] So, to make people aware of some of the human powered alternatives, I have organized the New England HPV Rally Oct 7 and 8 - see www.velomobiles.net.

It is kind of interesting, though, yesterday when I was cycling over to my (recumbent bike) shop, I was riding one of the trikes. Just as I was getting ready to turn into the shop parking lot, a guy roared around me in a Suburban, yelled something and flipped me the bird (really this doesn't happen often)! As I was thinking about what I would say to him if we were having a conversation afterwards, I realized that although I might be thinking about the big picture, he was likely just thinking about the A@$&*le who was taking up the lane (I was making a left and so took the lane) so he couldn't get by. Having a conversation with him at that point would have been extremely difficult, and I can imagine all sorts of counterproductive outcomes :-).


Anyway, I hope everyone will keep plugging away, wrt striving for a car-free or car-lite life - setting an example is important, and the more of us who ride, the better it will be for all of us!

Best,
-Ethan

www.wildfirehpv.com
www.velomobiles.net

"I don't have a TV and I'm intellectually superior to you." (paraphrasing) is good also.

I try to never mention I don't own a TV. I don't hate television, or do anything terribly intellectual when I'm not watching TV, but the reactions I get from aghast people are always interesting. I moved down to the East Bay from Seattle and could only pack everything I wanted into my car and my 27" TV just didn't fit-- couple that with the $$ price of cable and another huge television I'd have to move around all the time, there's just no point. I download (legally) the shows I enjoy and that covers it... I do miss my TiVo and a variety of shows I don't watch anymore.

Well, I'm car-free and we don't own a tv... :-)

Same thing with the cost of cable, and we just got tired of the adverts. Finally got rid of it after we realised we hadn't turned it on in a year. I think the last thing we watched was the 2000 celebrations as they went round the world.

We buy dvds and have the net. Watching it occaisionally at family get togethers, some of the stuff seems interesting, but we definitely don't miss the commercials.

From the top ten conversation killers, skipping right to #1:

1. I'm carfree and you can be carfree too. The second part gets them uneasy, yes. But the first part draws oohs and aahs and all sorts of questions. But - not in Toronto. Most folks I know in Toronto don't have a car or don't rely on it all that much. Hurray for our public transit (and a tiny bit to the cycling culture). :)

"I don't have a TV and I'm intellectually superior to you." (paraphrasing) is good also. Heh heh. I usually don't say the second part out loud, but it's implied. :D :D :D

And the similar questions...
Katie Who? Paris Who? American Idol, what's that?

"Gas prices have gone up? I didn't realize....That's too bad!"

"Gas prices have gone up? I didn't realize....That's too bad!"

+10

I've bought a total of five gallons of gas in the past 8 months. :) I really AM going to have to fix my truck soon, though.

It seems that a Buddhist approach is better in "converting" one to car free. I live my life this way if you choose to hear about it just ask. Which is not as fast (or as measurable) as the Christian conversion method of killing you if you don't want to be car free..

I wasn't aware that Televangelists had started to make snuff films....

I wasn't aware that Televangelists had started to make snuff films....

They would if they could...

http://www.critcrim.org/critpapers/leighton_dp.htm

"I don't have a TV and I'm intellectually superior to you." (paraphrasing) is good also.
I'm like Caspar_S, no car , no TV. It seems like once a year or so I hear something about another study showing some kind of mental incapacity associated with TV watching. The last was just a few weeks ago where the study associated memory impairment with TV viewing. It would be interesting to me if some psychometrician would compare the car-free by choice with car-dependent by choice populations. Judging from people I know, it sure seems that the car-free by choice have better life skills. They seem to have more interesting lives and get along better with their kids. Maybe the health and wealth factors of a car free lifestyle cause measureable improvement in other parts of your life.

I believe there's active and passive TV watching. When I watch TV I choose what I watch, engage in it, and make it a point to be ACTIVE about what I watch, whether it's Frontline or Cribs.

I DON'T like TV on as background noise, which seems to be everywhere. Friends houses, work lunch room, waiting rooms. It's ridiculous to have a conversation and have to yell over non-existent 3rd person (think about how often this happens). I have relatives/friends who automatically turn on the TV as soon as arriving home, as natural as turning the lights on or kicking off their shoes. From 3pm when their 10 year old comes home from school, through dinner, til 10pm the TV is constantly on as NOISE. To me that's absurd. Completely different than gathering around to watch a movie, or "Lost" for an hour, and being done with it.

The audio "clutter" of TV, and the fact that so many people accept this, (where is I turn unwatched TVs off), is what I'm astounded by.

Lately I've just been downloading TV shows I like (like Prison Break). I can watch when I want, no commercials or promos. Just the show, when I want and how I want.

I'm like Caspar_S, no car , no TV. It seems like once a year or so I hear something about another study showing some kind of mental incapacity associated with TV watching. The last was just a few weeks ago where the study associated memory impairment with TV viewing. It would be interesting to me if some psychometrician would compare the car-free by choice with car-dependent by choice populations. Judging from people I know, it sure seems that the car-free by choice have better life skills. They seem to have more interesting lives and get along better with their kids. Maybe the health and wealth factors of a car free lifestyle cause measureable improvement in other parts of your life.

I'm the only person I know who has neither a car nor a TV.

I have to agree that there seems to be a strong correlation among the people I know between car- and TV-lessness and general superiority.

:)

Best approach for initial contact (First impressions, first dates, job interviews, etc.) is to just show that you are normal.
.



Oh well. I'm totally screwed if that's the case....:(

Besides, would someone who really liked their car necessarily want to subject it to the wear and tear of short-trip commuting?I like my car too much to drive it?

I don't feel particularly superior for having neither a car nor a TV, but I do feel a lot calmer.

Here in Austin, that is pretty common. I've seen people spend 10-20 minutes fighting over a parking place near a store when about 100 feet away are rows upon rows of empty ones.

Here is the thing that absolutely befuddles me to no end. I park my car way away from everyone in the back of a parking lot (don't mind the few extra steps). Invariably, in the expanse of empty spaces, people park right beside my vehicle. Why the heck do people just have to park by someone else's car?

As for TVs, I agree. One of my pet peeves are people who passivly watch TV. Unless laid up in a hospital where there is nothing else to do, there is no point to this. I much rather hit a computer, a book, or something, than stare at a boob tube mindlessly for hours on end.