Mountain Biking - Avid arch rival V brakes...sorry......

Sorry......for all the brake posts ! I hate taking up so much space, but i'm feverishly reading thru a ton of reviews and such and have so many questions......

Anyway, i'm leaning away from discs now because i'm finding there are possibly V brakes that are much more powerful than your average set of V's.

So how about the Avid "Arch Rivals"? I read the reviews and it seems everyone raves about them saying they are the most powerful V's you can get. Some even said they rival some discs. And they are dirt cheap at about $70 a set. Any thoughts on these? (my stumpjumper came with avid SD, which leave my hands sore after a bit of downhill)

Thanks...

All the arch does is position the pads parallel to the rim they have no effect on how powerful the brake is. The only reason they work better than others is that the pad hits the rim straight..... in a vertical sense that is (we all know pads should be toed). After that all I can say is I like mine.

Perhaps some hand exercises?

Before you do anything adjust the pivot point on your levers. That will reduce the amount of effort required to pull them.

I recently switched from Avid V's to Avid mechanical disks. There is no comparison. At 200 pounds, I find the disks to give up nothing to the V's. In the wet there is no comparison. Was the best move I have made on my MTB. The few ounces sacrificed to mount the disks is well worth the weight.

All the arch does is position the pads parallel to the rim they have no effect on how powerful the brake is. The only reason they work better than others is that the pad hits the rim straight..... in a vertical sense that is (we all know pads should be toed). After that all I can say is I like mine.

So are you saying they aren't any more powerful than any other good rim brake?


Before you do anything adjust the pivot point on your levers. That will reduce the amount of effort required to pull them.

Not sure my Avid levers have this........i'll look tonite when i get home. Remember, i know very little about bike mechanics.


Perhaps some hand exercises?

No, even if i had considerably more strength i'd still want them to be much easier just to make downhills more efortless. And hey, i'm probably twice your age at 49 !!! Cut me some slack !:D

Stop sweating the disc thing. They do add a wee bit of weight - but they are worth every GRAM. Virtually everyone that I've ever talked to absolutely loves the control and power of their discs.

A good friend of mine's been MTB'ing for 10 years...he's been such a slow convert to anything new. He finally upgrade to discs (along with a new Titus Switchblade)...he just goes nuts ranting and raving about "how come I waited so long to go with disc brakes?"!

Disks are great, you'd never regret buying them. In order to wring the most out of your v's, though, you must have ceramic rims.

Stop sweating the disc thing. They do add a wee bit of weight - but they are worth every GRAM.

:lol: Me, worry about weight?!!!:lol: Heck, they could weigh 20 lbs and i wouldn't care ! A gram scale is at the very bottom of my list right AFTER $hit sandwich!!!
:lol:

Excellent! Then your should definitely go out right now (or surf right now) and get them discs...

Originally posted by bikeCOLORADO
Excellent! Then your should definitely go out right now (or surf right now) and get them discs...

If steering towards discs anyways, you might want to wait on the Avid mechs and see how well the new Avid hydraulics fair in reviews. Anyone tried these yet? They look quite nifty and adjustable. Almost nifty enough for me to consider converting my fork for discs which is no easy task since it would involve a combination of welding and epoxy (CF forklegs).

I didn't even know they were release yet. I assume great things about them but would still give them a couple of years before I would grab them.

Darn it youse guys.......your making me jones for discs again right when i finally though i'd decided to get better V's !:confused:

If steering towards discs anyways, you might want to wait on the Avid mechs and see how well the new Avid hydraulics fair in reviews. Anyone tried these yet?

Hmmm....are you saying "new" as in thier NEXT generation of hydos, or as in thier FIRST hydro? I ask because i saw reviews of Avid hydros at mtbr.com, and the reviews were from a couple years ago. Can i assume they did make hydros and that you are refering to a new model that may be better?

Originally posted by dazco
Hmmm....are you saying "new" as in thier NEXT generation of hydos, or as in thier FIRST hydro? I ask because i saw reviews of Avid hydros at mtbr.com, and the reviews were from a couple years ago. Can i assume they did make hydros and that you are refering to a new model that may be better?

Correct. I'm not talking about their first ones. The new line is called the Juicy and it has pad adjustment knobs at the lever.

That sounds awesome. Maybe i'll wait, tho does anyone know when?

Originally posted by dazco
That sounds awesome. Maybe i'll wait, tho does anyone know when?

I heard they're to come out on the open market in summer. Supposedly they're only available to frame manufacturers right now. Maybe I'll go on a hunt to find some bikeshops that have bikes with them from the factory.

Hmmm.....i gotta wait till summer?! I'm not that patient.

Originally posted by dazco
Hmmm.....i gotta wait till summer?! I'm not that patient.

Normally I wouldn't be either. But I still have to screw up the courage to build a mount for my fork. Converting the rear is easy... drill two holes and install the Hammerhead adapter from RDI. It's the front that's the hard part. This keeps me in debate about whether I really want/need discs in the first place. I'm running Avid ArchRival-50s and they've been serving me well even in the muddy/wet PacNW.

If their hydros are anything like their mechanicals.. they're gonna be the shizzle mah nizzle.

Then again, if the mechanicals are so great, why bother with fluid?

Perhaps they will be even GREATER!







Muuuuuuahah!


:D



I just saw the add in a magazine... they look sweet. Usually anything made by Avid is going to be good. Everything I've ever owned was great, and if not, they backed it 100% until things were right.

The other thing i'm thinking about is that the hydros have to be used with the included levers, while the mechs let you use your own. (i have avid levers) So the hydro factor plus the included levers are likely going to translate to a far higher price.

I'm having a hard time deciding what to do, but i am considering buying a front avid mechanical at supergo saturday for $69 plus whatever a cable costs. If i like it i'd buy the rear too. But this way i'd only be out 1/2 the amount if i'm not real thrilled about them. The likely much higher cost of the hydros and the wait have me leaning this way. In any case., this whole brake thing is turning into a headache ! I'm tierd of thinking about it.

Originally posted by dazco
In any case., this whole brake thing is turning into a headache ! I'm tierd of thinking about it.

Welcome to the club. I'm kinda in the same boat. I have integrated XTR shifters so that would mean buying new shifter pods as well as the new levers, brakes, disc compatible hubs, wheel rebuild/new rims (although I might go wth Mavic Crossmax disc wheelsets), and of course the mounting tabs and cable guide modifications to a carbon frame and fork no less. |8^)

I'm sorry to hear that.....makes my decision seem like a no-brainer ! But ya know, i think you're gonna do it eventually. It's not gonna leave you alone till you do, and you know it !;)

Originally posted by dazco
I'm sorry to hear that.....makes my decision seem like a no-brainer ! But ya know, i think you're gonna do it eventually. It's not gonna leave you alone till you do, and you know it !;)

Yeah... you're probably right. That's kinda why I figured I'd go full-on hydraulics and skip the mechs. If I'm going to go through all the trouble of going discs... OTOH, I would get to skip replacing my levers and shifters if I just went with mechs. You're right. It's a tough call and my brain hurts. |8^) Although I have to admit, sometimes it's a fun to ponder these sorts of things.

One of my favorite things to do is pour over magazines and catalogues thinking about what the next modifications will be. Reviewing specs, reviews, weight, price, and weighing them altogether to ultimately decide what I want :o

But if it comes down to replacing your shifters, levers, brakes, cables, wheels, etc.... I'm not so sure I wouldn't just buy a new bike.

My humble opinion is to get the Avid Mechs. You won't have to get new levers, or a bleed kit, and you won't have to worry abour bleeding the brake line.....blah blah. I think the low maint. of mechs makes them very desirable. I have worked on a few sets of Deore mechanicals, and they were super easy to setup, and the users have had very few problems with them. Everybody knows Avid is better than Deore....:)

I don't think you'll find more powerful V's, if you want brake power, get the discs.

Originally posted by dazco
So are you saying they aren't any more powerful than any other good rim brake? Not really their strength is in better pad position. They do stop better but brake power ALWAYS comes from one's hand strength.





No, even if I had considerably more strength I'd still want them to be much easier just to make downhills more efortless. And hey, I'm probably twice your age at 49 !!! Cut me some slack !:D
No matter what you do on this one your not going to soften your pull without sacrificing stopping power. Unfortunatly if you want soft levers you're going to have soft brakes. Unless somebody knows of a way to increase the mechanical advantage that I don't know about. Oh one thing I'll shoot down before it get's off the ground. Travel Agents those little pulley things that go in place of the noodle on V's so that old-style levers can be used with V-style brakes or just to eliminate noodle friction. I don't think those (when used on the doubler setting) will decrease the effort needed to apply braking force however the lever throw will be cut at least in half. Sorry bud looks like you're buying a tennis ball. (If you were twice my age you'd be 52 :P)

If you were twice my age you'd be 52

Hmmm......i was close. 49

Here are some from SRAM/Grip Shift for a pretty good price:SRAM DISCS (http://pricepoint.com/product1541.html)


Here's a great deal on some Hayes Comp's:Hayes Disc (http://www.supergo.com/itemdisplay.asp?parentid=20888&secid=7559&subid=7589&compflag=1&company=Hayes)

Just to make the decision a bit more difficult!

L8R

I didn't know SRAM made discs!!!! How are they rated? pretty good?

I've heard good things about those discs. And they're LIGHT! SRAM makes awesome stuff... I've never had a problem with ANYTHING they make.

To add even more confusion; I just got a set of Hayes Hydro's, and I must say they're awsome. I demo'd Avid mechs, as well as Shimano XT hydro's. The Hayes felt better than either. The Avid mechs definitely will stop the bike, but the Hayes hydros do it with more eligance. The difference in modulation between the hydros and the mechs was very noticable to me. BTW my former Avid V-brakes also worked well, but only for the first few rides after replacing the pads..errrrg; hence my switch to hydros. have fun with your decision.