Manufacturer, Retailer, Survey and Consumer Feedback - Beware of ICYCLESUSA.COM, they have a very bad service

I am just venting out because I am deceived from their customer service. I ordered during the weekend a set of wheels from Icycles benefiting from the 20% discount. The order went thru, checked the order this morning it said "SHIPPED". This afternoon, four days later they send me an email canceling my order, claiming that the wheelset is out of stock. I send them an email and this what they replied.

----- Original Message -----
From: ICYCLES
To: Emile XXXXX
Sent: Wednesday, September 06, 2006 4:03 PM
Subject: Order #124371 from ICYCLES has been canceled.

Dear Emile XXXXX,

This message is to notify you that your order #124371 from ICYCLES has been canceled for the following reason: Item has SOLD OUT.

Order #124371 included the following line items: 1 Xero XR-1 700c Aero Shimano / Sram Compatible Road Bike Wheel Set


Thank you for shopping with us.

ICYCLES
http://www.ICYCLESUSA.com

-----Original Message-----
From: Emile XXXXX[mailto:XXXXXX@hotmail.com]
Sent: Wednesday, September 06, 2006 6:44 PM
To: ICYCLES
Subject: Re: Order #124371 from ICYCLES has been canceled.

This morning, my order showed that it was already shipped. In the afternoon you send me an email saying it it was canceled because it has Sold Out. You still have it on your website available for purchase, is it because I used the 20% discount and you prefer to sell it to somebody paying full price. At least offer me something else or put me on a waiting list. I am really upset with your business and customer practices. I will make sure that my buddys on the bikeforum.net and Roadbikereview.com hear about this.
Regards,
Emile

----- Original Message -----
From: ICYCLES
To: Emile XXXXX
Sent: Wednesday, September 06, 2006 8:05 PM
Subject: RE: Order #124371 from ICYCLES has been canceled.

As stated, the sale was limited to the quantity in stock, we do not have any stock left on the wheels. As for your threats we don't want you as a customer if you are that petty.

----- Original Message -----
From: Emile XXXXX
To: ICYCLES
Sent: Wednesday, September 06, 2006 8:23 PM
Subject: Re: Order #124371 from ICYCLES has been canceled.

Thank you for your response, it looks very odd when you see the status of the order "already shipped" in the morning and "canceled" in the afternoon.
I did not threaten anybody, I am just informing you of my future plan of action; if you didn't do anything wrong there is nothing to worry about.
It seems that you made the decision of not wanting me as a customer earlier when you canceled my order.
Regards,
Emile

There is something strange with that place. I can't even browse the site, I get this message: You have been denied access to the ICYCLES Online Store on the basis of your IP Address (xx.xxx.xxx.xxx) and IP Address Country (Latvia).

It the only site that has ever given me that message....

So are you mad b/c you believe they do have them instock but b/c you used your 20% off, they chose to cancel your order?

If that's really the case, that's one shady company.

It is so easy to show real time stock status. There is no reason to lie about it. This is just so blatent! Thanks for the heads up.

Not my experience with them. Got what was ordered. But their web site is about as bad as it gets for looking for things.

On the flip side, I once ordered from ICYCLESUSA.COM, and after I got my confirmation email realized that I had ordered two of an item I only wanted one of, instead of adding a different additional item. They immediately cancelled the order and credited my PayPal account and I reordered. They did miss an item in a different order once, and shipped out the missing item immediately.

I think it is a factor when dealing with discounters that there will be times when they are out of stock, and it takes a while for the web page to be updated. I also think it is a common practice to send a notification of shipment as soon as the order goes to the warehouse (a practice I dislike, but have come to expect). I suspect your order was sent to the warehouse (so it showed as shipped) and the warehouse discovered that there were none available to ship...

The real issue is the response to your email... It reminds me of a gas station stop I made this weekend while coming home from the coast. There were two people working the registers and one discovered a $4 error of some sort for a person who had left. Both checkers were busy discussing what to do, and the customer in front of the line who had already paid dared to ask if the checker could hold the discussion later and give his change... The checker snapped at the guy that she could talk and give change at the same time (which she obviously couldn't) and the other checker afterwards consoled her and said that some people are just jerks (all in earshot of several customers). I should have been out of there 5 minutes sooner, as should have everyone behind me in the line.

They didn't hear the grumbling behind me in the ever-growing line up to that point, and I just paid for my coffee and left... As I was down the road several miles I realized that I should have asked to talk to the manager... Someone should have learned the lesson on customer focus... and I know that two people in that room needed a wakeup call.

I say all this just to make a short point. There is no longer reason to expect courteous customer service when dealing with a vendor. You are more likely to be hit by lightning than to be treated as if you were the one paying the retailer's salary or wages.

I go out of my way to spend my money in courteous environments... they are still there, but the odds are slim of a random establishment having a customer focused attitude.

EDIT: I used the 20% discount and got good treatment.

"As for your threats we don't want you as a customer if you are that petty."

- to the OP: thanks for posting your experience... it pretty much confirms what i thought about the business when looking at the site - no physical address listed, misspelling for FAQ title page, and even worse, a PayPal vendor and eBay-centric entity...

- i'll be sure to avoid any purchase with icyclesusa.com, because if it smells like it, looks like it, and acts like it, it is you-know-what...

I've always had great luck with them. With them or chucksbikes or any of the disounted parts sites you run the risk of something not being there when you order it. Unless or until you can prove that they've got a wheelset sitting in their warehouse, they've got a point in their response. Instead of flinging accusations across the internet, why not try to clear it up with a little class? It wouldn't have been at all hard to just email asking what happened, would it?

If you think that's bad customer service (which it is), try buying something from bestpricecameras.com (don't). You'll be lucky to come away from that place without having to cancel your CC# and open a new account.

If you think that's bad customer service (which it is), try buying something from bestpricecameras.com (don't). You'll be lucky to come away from that place without having to cancel your CC# and open a new account.

+1

- the problem is that there are numerous sites with similar names running scams out of places in various NYC boroughs...

found these reports:

http://www.ripoffreport.com/reports/ripoff194394.htm
http://thomashawk.com/2005/11/priceritephoto-abusive-bait-and-switch.html
http://www.brooklynrecord.com/archives/2006/08/shady_camera_sh.html
http://www.complaints.com/directory/2004/july/11/6.htm

+1

- the problem is that there are numerous sites with similar names running scams out of places in various NYC boroughs...

found these reports:

http://www.ripoffreport.com/reports/ripoff194394.htm
http://thomashawk.com/2005/11/priceritephoto-abusive-bait-and-switch.html
http://www.brooklynrecord.com/archives/2006/08/shady_camera_sh.html
http://www.complaints.com/directory/2004/july/11/6.htm
Here's a guy (http://donwiss.com/pictures/BrooklynStores/) who rode his bike around Brooklyn and took pics of all the bogus (and some not so bogus) storefronts. If you can call them that.

Although I think we're threadjacking now. :o

The moral: If you're ordering from a new online site, do a little research on them before you order.

Could be that the XERO XR-1 wheels they sell are shipped directly from the distributor. When I got mine, that's how they came. The distributor even left a shipping/billing statement with the wholesale price of the wheels in the box, about $160. The distributor could have run out of stock before ICYCLES could update their inventory.

Ceratinly not the experience that I've had with them. Use them quite a bit when ordering spokes when I build a set of wheels for myself or others.

If they don't have something, they don't have it, what do you expect? It reads like what you are wanting is for them to go buy the item that they don't have in stock just so that you can still get it. As an aside, did they refund you the money? If so, the gripe is, in fact, a bit petty.

Not my experience with them. Got what was ordered. But their web site is about as bad as it gets for looking for things.

+1. I've ordered a few different times from them and usually receive the stuff within a few days.

sounds like they were processing orders, mailed confirmations and then
figured out they were out of stock on the wheels.
poor communication? sure, they should have explained that they sent the
shipped email before they realized their error.
dishonest? no I don't think so.
The email about posting here and on RBR was a bit over the top imho,
they did refund your money with an explanation.
If anything I would have persued the first email but not the implicit
threat.

marty

There are good retailers and good customers. The converse is also true.

sounds like they were processing orders, mailed confirmations and then
figured out they were out of stock on the wheels.
poor communication? sure, they should have explained that they sent the
shipped email before they realized their error.
dishonest? no I don't think so.
The email about posting here and on RBR was a bit over the top imho,
they did refund your money with an explanation.
If anything I would have persued the first email but not the implicit
threat.

marty

I agree with Marty. You will frequently get farther with the voice of reason than a verbal club. As to Icyclesusa, I ordered a set of DA shifters during their last 20% off sale and received them quickly at an amazing price. Given the plus/minus experiences recounted above, I guess they need to shoot for better consistency.

I got what I ordered as well too. Sometimes these things happen. Now they should try and get you a new set if they are regularly stocked for the discounted price. Obviously, that won't happen now. Sorry for the bad experience.

This is from a long time ago, but...

http://groups.google.com/group/rec.bicycles.marketplace/browse_thread/thread/71ad0c3c94b581ef/d6b04584c5972ba5?lnk=st&q=icyclesusa+review&rnum=1#d6b04584c5972ba5

There is something strange with that place. I can't even browse the site, I get this message: You have been denied access to the ICYCLES Online Store on the basis of your IP Address (xx.xxx.xxx.xxx) and IP Address Country (Latvia).

It the only site that has ever given me that message....

Labdien, ka ums iet!!

you're supposed to spend twice as much at your LBS, silly

This is from a long time ago, but...

http://groups.google.com/group/rec.bicycles.marketplace/browse_thread/thread/71ad0c3c94b581ef/d6b04584c5972ba5?lnk=st&q=icyclesusa+review&rnum=1#d6b04584c5972ba5

Wow, what a jacka$$. Ebay should shut him down. Thanks for the heads up.

I am not expecting much with this thread; just want to keep my promise to ICYCLESUSA.COM...
Every person then can choose and make their own decision whether they want their business or not.
As for myself, I think when you mark the item shipped, that means it was shipped. If it was not shipped due to the item being not available, than a small explanation will do. I am not asking them much, I don't have unrealistic expectations; just a small N.B. with the order cancellation email would have been sufficient.
Even after I send them my 1st email they still could have explained this confusion, but instead they preferred to attack me personally.

And that promise was to what, drag their business through the cyber-mud? If they refunded your money without you even needing to ask, I don't see th point of your posting other than to whine about not getting the low price wheelset.

And that promise was to what, drag their business through the cyber-mud? If they refunded your money without you even needing to ask, I don't see th point of your posting other than to whine about not getting the low price wheelset.


+1. I'm an e-merchant and I understand that there is no motivation at all for him to make you angry. I suspect he follwed the rules he laid out for the promotion and you were too late. He might have made a mistake. If he made a mistake he should and would normally honor it if it is possible for him to do so. It might not be possible. I don't know and neither do you.

View web sites as catalogs, not as inventory listings. He didn't have something and he let you know quickly and provided a refund. That is a reasonable response and good customer service. Someone above mentioned that it is easy to keep a web site up to date with currently inventory. In fact it is very difficult and very expensive. We don't do it and never have. If we don't have something we order it in and ship it 2 or 3 days later. I think that's good customer service also.

Whenever I read this kind of muck raking, I always side with the merchant. I'll see if I can find something I need to order from him.

www.resellerratings.com

Not every online entity is there, but a lot of them are.

So you as a merchant you want to tell me, you take people's money and inform them you shipped their item. Then 4 days later you cancel their order and tell them it is out of stock with no further explanation. If you see that as correct, you are running a pretty bad business.
As I said I don't care about the wheels but I care about the way I was treated, and if it takes to post this on the web for them tocorrect their business practices why not...

If we don't have something we order it in and ship it 2 or 3 days later. I think that's good customer service also.

Sounds like that's all the OP wanted. It does seem fishy that they would just dump the order.

+1. I'm an e-merchant and I understand that there is no motivation at all for him to make you angry. I suspect he follwed the rules he laid out for the promotion and you were too late. He might have made a mistake. If he made a mistake he should and would normally honor it if it is possible for him to do so. It might not be possible. I don't know and neither do you.

View web sites as catalogs, not as inventory listings. He didn't have something and he let you know quickly and provided a refund. That is a reasonable response and good customer service. Someone above mentioned that it is easy to keep a web site up to date with currently inventory. In fact it is very difficult and very expensive. We don't do it and never have. If we don't have something we order it in and ship it 2 or 3 days later. I think that's good customer service also.

Whenever I read this kind of muck raking, I always side with the merchant. I'll see if I can find something I need to order from him.

I am not going to shop at this merchant, not so much for the inventory/web-discrepancy but for the rude response to her email. Regardless if the merchant feels the incoming email is inappropriate, I will not give business to merchants that don't know how to treat customers.

I am not going to shop at this merchant, not so much for the inventory/web-discrepancy but for the rude response to her email. Regardless if the merchant feels the incoming email is inappropriate, I will not give business to merchants that don't know how to treat customers.

+1. An excellent point. That was a rude-as-hell reply to what seemed like a pretty legit complaint.

So you as a merchant you want to tell me, you take people's money and inform them you shipped their item. Then 4 days later you cancel their order and tell them it is out of stock with no further explanation. If you see that as correct, you are running a pretty bad business.
As I said I don't care about the wheels but I care about the way I was treated, and if it takes to post this on the web for them tocorrect their business practices why not...

Consider this scenario. Perhaps the guy drop ships. Some automated system gave you a shipping notification. It was wrong and it was later corrected manually. You might not have like the tenor of the email but it was simply informational. It wasn't a personal attack. No need to get emotional about it. This post of yours was a personal attack to be sure.

I make mistakes too and I lose customers over them. I deal with about 300 emails per day and only have about 10 seconds to deal with each one. My responses are informational. They aren't intended to be rude. I don't think he intended to be rude. I think you're too sensitive. It isn't a reason to try to hurt someone's business. If your title had said "I had a bad experience with so and so." That would have been accurate. Instead you said he had bad customer service as though everything he does is bad. It is normal to be disappointed and it is fine to talk about it as long as you can be objective about it. Maybe you can see my point a little. Take care.

I think you were a bit hasty in making some accusations against the merchant. That said, I believe the merchant should have given you some explanation as to why the order couldn't be honored, with an apology that it couldn't, and with an offer to get you the wheels when next available if at all possible. Never a good business practice to leave a customer wondering what happened out of concern that they will make incorrect assumptions and consequently trade with another merchant next time.

NuBiker
...is it because I used the 20% discount and you prefer to sell it to somebody paying full price. At least offer me something else or put me on a waiting list. I am really upset with your business and customer practices. I will make sure that my buddys on the bikeforum.net and Roadbikereview.com hear about this.
Regards,
Emile



ICYCLES
As stated, the sale was limited to the quantity in stock, we do not have any stock left on the wheels. As for your threats we don't want you as a customer if you are that petty.

You made an unsupported accusation, made unreasonable demands, and then threatened the merchant if it didn't give you what you wanted.

I wouldn't be happy with how the order and cancellation was treated, either, but it looks like you got the exact kind of response from ICYCLE you deserved! :eek:

I ordered some spokes from when a while ago, they were all long by 2-5mm. THey did replace them though, but I still ended up paying 50% more and they gave me a pair of socks. But, I ordered some 240's from them which came immediately and at a good price. Just ordered a 31.8mm clamp and a GXP bottom bracket. The clamps were out of stock, so I got refunded. I wish they would list things only in stock...

Still, I have had a positive experience overall

You made an unsupported accusation, made unreasonable demands, and then threatened the merchant if it didn't give you what you wanted.

I wouldn't be happy with how the order and cancellation was treated, either, but it looks like you got the exact kind of response from ICYCLE you deserved! :eek:

You are very wrong, I made supported accusations ( the wheels are still selling on their website), Didn't make unreasonnable demands ( just asked to be informed before they cancel the order or offer something else instead), I didn't threaten the merchant if he didn't give me what I wanted ( I informed him about telling everybody about his practices, I was not interested in his business anymore).

Sounds like that's all the OP wanted. It does seem fishy that they would just dump the order.

Exactly Doc:) , I guess all docs are on the same wavelength:rolleyes: .

I have ordered several items recently from Icycles without problems. Fast shipping, etc.

I've got no skin in this game. I'm not an ICYCLE customer and I'm not an ICYCLE friend. I simply read your post and the responses and thought I'd give my opinion.

Let's review:

1. I say that you made an unsupported accusation.
Support: Unless you failed to mentioned direct evidence that you have, you cannot prove the reason for which your order was cancelled. Several other people have already posted plausible explanations for why your order was cancelled and for why ICYCLE may still show the wheels in stock. Those seemed reasonable to me. What isn't reasonable is how you went from getting your order cancelled to saying that ICYCLE cancelled your order because they "prefer to sell it to somebody paying full price."

It's unclear how you came to this conclusion. And then in your e-mail, you didn't ask for an explanation, you simply accused ICYCLE.

2. I say that you made an unreasonable demand.
Support: After re-reading your statement, I may be wrong to say you were unreasonable. I think it is reasonable for you to expect a company tell you why an order was cancelled. However, they don't have an obligation to offer you something different. While your request to be put on a waiting list is also reasonable, ICYCLE's response said "the sale was limited to the quantity in stock." That's why they didn't offer you something else, and that's why you're not on a waiting list.

3. I say that you threatened the merchant if it didn't give you what you wanted.
Support: Merchants, online or brick-and-mortar, rely on good word of mouth for business. Inversely, they're loathe to have bad world-of-mouth and will often go out of their way and beyond their obligations to satisfy an unhappy customer.

You made it clear in your initial contact to ICYCLE that you felt they were being unfair in how they handled your order and you were unhappy and you were going to tell people about it. It's not expressly written but it's sure implied by your message that if they don't give you the wheelset at 20%, as someone else put it, you would "drag their business through the cyber-mud." And this, based on your unfounded feeling accusation!

4. I say that you got the exact kind of response from ICYCLE you deserved.
Support: Uber-professional it's not, but the ICYCLE response is terribly honest and warranted. Assuming there was a legitimate reason for your order to be cancelled and the wheels were out of stock (and why wouldn't we believe so?), ICYCLE has every reason to feel offended by your accusation. And since you were pretty much being a jerk in your e-mail, and because you'd already decided you were going to tell people bad things about ICYCLE and your experience based on an unfounded accusation, they're response back was right on.

There's a quaint saying that sums this one up:
You can catch more flies with honey than with vinegar.

Next time, try being nice instead of assuming everyone's out to get you.

Back when I was selling computers to pay the bills in college, a wise manager told me, "The customer isn't always right, but the customer is always the customer."

I don't know where he got it from, but I think the folks at ICYCLES would've done well to hear that before they responded to the OP's e-mail. Whether the accusations, etc. were warranted is really kind of irrelevant--ICYCLES sent an a$$hole response with no explanation. A customer they didn't like is still a customer.

I've never been particularly impressed with their website or with their prices, so I've never ordered anything from them. Now I'm 100% sure I won't.

Based on the notes posted, neither party knows how to resolve conflict in his favor.

OP, you'll want to learn how to do that; it's an important life skill.

The OP apparently doesn't understand how to behave to in a service situation. If you come out making accusations and using threats to slander someone, you won't get what you want. If you calmly explain the situation, the outcome is usually much better.

Of course, as a "doctor" he doesn't get this and expects everyone but himself to be perfect.

Of course, as a "doctor" he doesn't get this and expects everyone but himself to be perfect.

An interesting comment, especially when placed right after the slander accusation. Oh well... :rolleyes:

I bought a couple of hubs from them a couple of years ago. The price was great, however, some 10 weeks after paying for them I still had not received them.

When I had the temerity to ask iCycles about them I was rather abruptly informed that it wasn't their problem after they shipped the item.

I waited another two weeks and not having seen them left Neutral feedback on eBay. Their response was to go back in and edit their original feedback and inform the eBay world that I was now a "Blocked Bidder".

I got my money back through Visa, never did lay eyes on the hubs.

Wouldn't even think about trying to order from them again.

Of course, as a "doctor" he doesn't get this and expects everyone but himself to be perfect.

Someone score too low on the MCATs, or is that big chip on your shoulder for some other reason?

No chips, never bothered to take the MCATs, too busy investing your money for you. There are plenty of good docs out there and I respect what they do and most deserve every penny they have or will get. I do know that a lot of docs don't seem to understand that mistakes happen.

As a doc, how would you feel if a patient called you a liar and threatened to rip your name?

As a doc, how would you feel if a patient called you a liar and threatened to rip your name?

In all honesty, I think everyone has had patients like that. Some will storm off just because your opinion doesn't mesh with what they read on the internet, even though they may be missing the boat entirely. Others will call you a hack or incompetent because they have a problem/complication that you told them about during preop counseling. Those patients aren't going away. There will always be people out there who think they already have it figured out, or don't understand why you have to rule out other things before treating a problem.

And while I've had a couple of those encounters and know friends/colleagues who also have, none of it justifies responding in kind to their immature/offensive behavior.

And while I've had a couple of those encounters and know friends/colleagues who also have, none of it justifies responding in kind to their immature/offensive behavior.

Great point Dr. Pete. The point I am trying to make is that most people are more flexible and empathetic if concerns are initially voiced in a civil manner. Its that whole honey vs. vinegar thing. Hopefully thats the lesson the OP will learn from this.

My initial post was a bit over the line. I'm sure you've interacted with folks from my profession and have your generalizations as well but you were courteous enough to keep them to yourself.

Honey definitely does work better, but when you're trying to compete in a market with places like JensonUSA and PricePoint (who, BTW, have never taken more than 1 day to ship anything, and DO have very accurate inventory info and availability dates on their site) and PBK, a company with an intact sense of self-preservation will learn to tolerate the taste of vinegar to some extent. :)

No hard feelings--that MCAT crack was over the line too. :beer:

I deal with vendors and contractors at work. We buy small parts from $20.00 to large parts, the spare roll for our heavy duty press goes for $1.6 million. I just hired a contractor for some renovation work for $940,000.00. Whether it be $20.00 or $1.6 million, we have a golden rule, "You never take any $#!+ from someone you are handing money to." I think IcyclesUSA was wrong, and that is that. When they confrimed shipping, the deal was done. When I look you in the eye and tell you it is a deal, then it is a deal, no ifs ands or buts. I expect the same.

Crummyrider, your words are wrong and uncalled for, I will be polite and respectful to you explaining that after my order was canceled I was not interested in their business period, even if they gave them for free.
I don't know about you, but it is very easy to sit behind the net and judge people. You don't know me and don't know my credentials, or my bedside manners... So no need to go there...