Advocacy & Safety - Traffic fines on bikes

First of all, this is my first post to this forum, found it while searching for bicycle related traffic laws.
Looks like a great forum, I've already learned a few things!
I just moved back into Portland, Oregon, after living out in the suburbs for a year.
My job is in downtown Portland, so I decided to save $10/day on parking while riding my bike.
Anyways, this is my 2nd week riding to work, and today I got a traffic citation for not yielding properly at a stop sign.
Now, the route I take is an established bike path, protected bike lanes, etc, down to the Broadway bridge from north Portland.
There is a right hand turn from the 1-way street with a protected bike lane, the bike lane just continues the turn right heading towards the Broadway bridge merging with traffic.
About 4 cyclists had just turned (without yielding to the stop sign) and myself and another cyclist made the same turn (slowing down signifigantly but not fully stopped) and made the right hand turn.
Low and behold, and motorcycle cop rides up next to us and forces us to turn off the road. He said he witnessed us running into traffic, not yielding to the stop sign.
There wasn't any incoming traffic, though we did not stop.
I suppose if we would have stopped, the cyclists a few seconds behind us could have run into us, not expecting us to fully stop (its pretty busy for bikers there).
The fine for this "violation" is $250, and is likely going to affect my car insurance as well.
I read that many states exempt cyclists from fully stopping, such as Idaho, you can slow to a stop sign, but not fully stop and continue on.
Oregon just says "cyclists must obey the same laws of the road", but what is stopping for a bike?
Dismounting, slowing down signifigantly, what?
I plan to fight the ticket, saying it wouldve been more dangerous to stop there, regarding cyclist traffic behind me, and it is a protected bike lane that continues on hudding the right of the road. No chance to interrupt car traffic flow or anything.

Any ideas?

First of all, this is my first post to this forum, found it while searching for bicycle related traffic laws.
Looks like a great forum, I've already learned a few things!
I just moved back into Portland, Oregon, after living out in the suburbs for a year.
My job is in downtown Portland, so I decided to save $10/day on parking while riding my bike.
Anyways, this is my 2nd week riding to work, and today I got a traffic citation for not yielding properly at a stop sign.
Now, the route I take is an established bike path, protected bike lanes, etc, down to the Broadway bridge from north Portland.
There is a right hand turn from the 1-way street with a protected bike lane, the bike lane just continues the turn right heading towards the Broadway bridge merging with traffic.
About 4 cyclists had just turned (without yielding to the stop sign) and myself and another cyclist made the same turn (slowing down signifigantly but not fully stopped) and made the right hand turn.
Low and behold, and motorcycle cop rides up next to us and forces us to turn off the road. He said he witnessed us running into traffic, not yielding to the stop sign.
There wasn't any incoming traffic, though we did not stop.
I suppose if we would have stopped, the cyclists a few seconds behind us could have run into us, not expecting us to fully stop (its pretty busy for bikers there).
The fine for this "violation" is $250, and is likely going to affect my car insurance as well.
I read that many states exempt cyclists from fully stopping, such as Idaho, you can slow to a stop sign, but not fully stop and continue on.
Oregon just says "cyclists must obey the same laws of the road", but what is stopping for a bike?
Dismounting, slowing down signifigantly, what?
I plan to fight the ticket, saying it wouldve been more dangerous to stop there, regarding cyclist traffic behind me, and it is a protected bike lane that continues on hudding the right of the road. No chance to interrupt car traffic flow or anything.

Any ideas?You have to come to a complete stop.

That's just a statement of law, not a debate about what the law should or shouldn't be. If you don't want a ticket, obey the traffic laws. BTA has a Bike Legal Clinic on September 20:


Bike Legal Clinic - 9/20

Bike Lawyer Ray Thomas will teach a legal clinic at BTA headquarters
(1979 SW 5th, downtown Portland) for new and old cyclists alike, from
6-7 pm on September 20th. If you’ve ever wondered about the legality
of your favorite shortcut, riding on sidewalks, passing cars on the
right, leaving the bike lane, or anything else, he is the one to ask!

Ray teaches cyclists how to be safe, well-informed, and well-behaved,
and how to stick up for their rights when there’s trouble.

RSVP to info@bta4bikes.org. For more information, email
michelle@bta4bikes.org.I highly recommend this; first, you can ask Ray Thomas for advice about your citation. Second, and more importantly, you can pick up a free copy of his booklet he wrote for the BTA on the bicycle laws in Oregon. It's worth having, and is normally $10.

one thing i've done is to put one foot down when i'm at a stop sign, even if i don't totally completely come to a perfect stop. i've heard you should put both feet on the ground to make it clear that you've stopped.

in oregon we have the "basic rule" and that means you have to do whatever is safest, whether it's against another law or not. maybe you could mention that in court. although i just found out that we (oregon cyclists i mean) have to signal that we're slowing and stopping! so if you say "the cyclists behind me would have been surprised if i'd stopped," they might say "you should have signaled your stop." then again, who even recognizes the "stop" signal? either way, i've heard of people getting their tickets dismissed because they followed the basic rule. also the cop might not show up to a hearing if he has something better to do.

I'd say fight it. Although... a cop that would ride up beside you to tell you to pull over when you're on a bike might be one to debate you in court...

I would still try and explain why coming to a full stop would have been dangerous.

Why would coming to a full stop be dangerous? It's the law no matter if you're in a car or on a bike. Is it only "dangerous" to you because you had to unclip?

I dont think in the 2 weeks I've been on this route, I've seen anyone stop there.
There were others behind me who would probably not expect it either.
Sure it's the law, I dont dispute that, but in that spot, it'd be unwise to stop there.

Why? you don't abide by the law?

one thing i've done is to put one foot down when i'm at a stop sign, even if i don't totally completely come to a perfect stop. i've heard you should put both feet on the ground to make it clear that you've stopped. ... At a stop sign, I can make a far smoother, safer launch if I track-stand, rather than unclipping, and I would never consider taking BOTH feet out of the toeclips at a stop sign or even a red light.

... The fine for this "violation" is $250

In California, a "sign" violation, such as rolling through a stop sign, costs about $150, half the price of running a red light, causing a collision, or speeding. We can all debate "same rights, same rules," but automobile-sized fines are arguably excessive for bicyclists, because, for minor violations such as yours, an errant motorist is a far greater threat to public health and safety than an equally errant bicyclist. Throw yourself on the mercy of the court; the judge does have the discretion to reduce your fine.



... likely going to affect my car insurance as well.

It won't affect either your driving record or your auto insurance premium IF you make sure the conviction CLEARLY notes that you were bicycling, not motoring. When bicycling, some of us carry a passport instead of a driver's licence, to make absolutely sure there is no confusion on this issue.

A local town was getting tired of cyclists blowing stop signs and had a meeting about how to solve the problem. Before the meeting, a cyclist (working undercover!) took some video of that intersection to show at the meeting.

They were surprised to find that more bicyclists stopped at this particular stop sign than motorists did. About 1 out of every 10 cars stopped... several didn't even slow down. All the cyclists slowed down, and about half of them stopped. They have since given up thier bonehead ideas on restricting bike traffic.

What does this mean to the OP? Not much, I guess. I'd pay the fine and get on with life.

Az

one thing i've done is to put one foot down when i'm at a stop sign, even if i don't totally completely come to a perfect stop. i've heard you should put both feet on the ground to make it clear that you've stopped.

in oregon we have the "basic rule" and that means you have to do whatever is safest, whether it's against another law or not. maybe you could mention that in court. although i just found out that we (oregon cyclists i mean) have to signal that we're slowing and stopping! so if you say "the cyclists behind me would have been surprised if i'd stopped," they might say "you should have signaled your stop." then again, who even recognizes the "stop" signal? either way, i've heard of people getting their tickets dismissed because they followed the basic rule. also the cop might not show up to a hearing if he has something better to do.

Putting your foot down on a bike is analagous to putting your car in neutral or park at a stop sign. Stopping means you are not moving forward end of story, doesn't matter what your feet are doing.

Yesterday, I slowly rolled past a cop car on the right, and made a right turn at a blinking red without a complete stop. It was probably stupid on my part, but the cop did nothing. Unless they are getting a specific message from above to stop this behavior, I think that most cops don't care as long as you look like you are being responsible.

Yes, if you want to be treated as an auto, you should behave as a motorist in some ways. However, no motorist obeys all laws. Certain ones are routinely ignored, and drivers are even expected to ignore some. A biker is kind of expected to ignore a few laws, while remaining safe. They are sometimes different from the laws that motorists are braking. OP - tough brake. Sounds like you were very unlucky.

well, i know what "stopping" means. i'm talking about using your feet to communicate to other people that you've stopped. if there are police officers waiting to give tickets, then making a big show of stopping would be a good idea.

About track stand vs. foot down stops in Portland, OR: The traffic division commander of the Portland police has stated many times and for the record that track stand is an acceptable stop in the city. I do not know about other cities in Oregon, but it wouldn't hurt to ask their police departments.

I see quite a few cyclists in Portland disregard stop signs and red lights. All I can think is that the people on bikes around here must be really financially well-off to be able to risk $242 traffic tickets. I do have other more civic-minded reasons why I obey traffic laws, but I have to say the $242 ticket is a most compelling reason to follow the law. Unlike all these presumably wealthy and carefree folks on bikes, I don't have that kind of money to throw around.

I agree with Blue Order that Ray Thomas' legal clinic is not to be missed, and it is relevant to the law in the entire state, not just Portland. In fact, when I went in May, there were a bunch of people there who were told by either the officer who issued the ticket or the judge if they had gone to court that if they went to this and had Ray sign something, they'd reduce the ticket fee or waive it altogether. If you haven't gone to court yet and might miss the Sept. 20 clinic date, you might consider calling the officer yourself and see if s/he would be willing to work something out with you if you went. The worst they could do is say no.

Yes, if you want to be treated as an auto, you should behave as a motorist in some ways.

In my hood, there is no excuse for most motorist behavior. I think I should act a little better than that. :)

But complete stops at stop signs, one foot down? Only if I want trigger a road rage incident from the car behind me.

When bicycling, some of us carry a passport instead of a driver's licence, to make absolutely sure there is no confusion on this issue.
Don't fool yourself, doesn't make any difference. If the policeman wants to, he can get your driver's license number (if you have one)from the radio dispatcher and put it on the ticket. And he probably will do that since a passport provides no home address, current or past.

If someone else figures giving a phoney name and no ID to the policeman will game the system, the lack of confirmation from the radio dispatcher will only add to the cyclist's woes.

I would have stopped for the stop sign, but that's just me.

I have no problem with law enforcement enforcing traffic law in regards to cyclists.
Same roads, same laws, same enforcement, same penalties. The vehicle type is unimportant.

Since we physically can't speed most of the time like cars do (unless you're a terribly strong cyclist), running stop signs is our little guilty pleasure.

I kid, I kid.

Don't fool yourself, doesn't make any difference. If the policeman wants to, he can get your driver's license number (if you have one)from the radio dispatcher and put it on the ticket. And he probably will do that since a passport provides no home address, current or past.

If someone else figures giving a phoney name and no ID to the policeman will game the system, the lack of confirmation from the radio dispatcher will only add to the cyclist's woes.

It all depends on the jurisdiction. Even in Canada, it varies from province to province.

In Ontario, the law says demerit points apply only to motor vehicles and therefore not to cyclist, because while a bicycle is a vehicle, it is not a motorized vehicle. Thus you only pays the fines but no demerit points will be applied - just make sure the police officer writes "bicycle" on the ticket.

But in Quebec, demerit points do apply to cyclists: http://www.mtq.gouv.qc.ca/en/publications/reseau/velo/guide_velo_mai04_en.pdf

Not a good idea to give phoney name and ID ---- you may be arrested for this with more serious charges which may affect your career, credit ratings, etc.

well, i know what "stopping" means. i'm talking about using your feet to communicate to other people that you've stopped. if there are police officers waiting to give tickets, then making a big show of stopping would be a good idea.

Cops look at your wheel to see if you have stopped. If the wheel isn't turning, you have stopped.They do the same with cars, motorcycles and trucks.

Hello Skullone - Sorry you got a ticket. Special enforcement is sporadic while always stopping at a stop sign to obey the rules of the road can almost put you in more hazard from getting run over by fellow cyclists... I am not sure if this would make a good defense for not stopping. Good luck.

Why is this still an issue? If the law says stop then STOP! there is no middle ground as to its intent! stop! If the intent was to slow down and look cautiously, than the sign would have been YEILD!

It all depends on the jurisdiction. Even in Canada, it varies from province to province.
Agree that traffic violations by cyclists may or may not affect the cyclists' driving record depending on the local jurisdiction. My point is that not showing a driver's license to the police officer is no protection from getting cited for driving violation points. Using a passport (with no home address) for ID on a traffic stop is almost a guarantee that the officer will use his on board computer or radio dispatcher to get the cyclist driver's license ID with a current home address.

All I can say is even though you are in the wrong, still fight it. Fight every ticket every time no acceptions. Just think, while you are fighting it, if the cop shows up at all, at least he won't be out writing other bikers tickets during that time.

I agree you should have stopped. If you are concerned about stopping with cyclists behind you, display the slow/stop signal. However, I do think that the fine and points on your driver's license are rather excessive, and that would really burn me, too.

If you have a philosophical objection to cyclists being subjected to stop signs, I don't know if a court case is the way to fight it. Most people (including probably the cop and the judge) will probably figure you're just trying to wiggle out of it, rather than seriously considering your argument. Moreover, while bringing in some allies from local advocacy organizations might bolster your case, I can't imagine many of them jumping at the chance to help you defend illegal behavior.

On the other hand, even if you are really just trying to wiggle out of it, it might well be worth your time and effort given what you could avoid if you win. And I think in most places, if the cop doesn't bother to show up, you automatically win. (Don't take this as qualified legal advice.)

Apart from your experience, however, you do raise an interesting question: If a bike lane continues around a right-hand turn, why should a bike need to stop? Maybe the answer is simply the obvious: Because you can't always trust cars not to be heading for it. I can imagine that cars making a right-turn next to you could very frequently stray into the bike lane as they turn. Certainly tractor trailers will. So overall, I think the stop signs are appropriate for safety. (Although I would say that taking the full car lane is the most safe option, but I'll stop before this turns into a bike lane debate. Oops, I said it! :eek:)

Moreover, while bringing in some allies from local advocacy organizations might bolster your case, I can't imagine many of them jumping at the chance to help you defend illegal behavior.

After attending Ray Thomas' legal clinic for Oregon cyclists, I can confidently say that local advocacy organizations won't jump at the chance. Ray's a great guy, a hard core cyclist, and as my housemate and I learned on a ride with him after the clinic, a fairly regular lawbreaker, but even he says if you break the law and get caught, you pay the ticket. Simple as that.

Fight it. When you get a court date, ask for a reschedule. Usually they try to get all the cop's appearances bunched on one day. If you get a delay, chances are, he won't show for just you -- and the charges will be automatically dropped. Even if he does show up, judges often lower the offense or give warnings if you show up and honestly show concern about the issue.