timtheroadbiker
03-07-03, 01:55 PM
I am thinking about training with the CTS. Does it work, is it good. I was going for the excel one for 49 dollars a month. Have any of you done the CTS training if so please tell me about it.
Road Cycling - CTS Training
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Maurizio
03-07-03, 06:51 PM
Aaaahhhhhh CTS...
I spent aproximately a year with them under the 'Elite' program, which goes for about $280 a month I think. I had a small "coaching scholarship" from them which reduced the price by about $100 a month. Still, it was very expensive, and I had to question whether the services I recieved were really worth the price. I had a personal coach, fully customized program, ability to have my coach change the program at any time I wished, contact via phone 1-2 times week (self-initiated) for as long as I wanted, and however many e-mails I wanted to send.
I'm pretty sure that for the $50 a month that you're considering, that you'll get minimum contact with the coaching staff, and a fairly cookie-cutter program that they already have on file with little customization.
So costs asside, did I get way strong and thrive under the program? Is it better than not having a coach? These questions are HIGHLY dependant on the individual. Personally, the answer for me was no. Immagine having the entire month's workouts laid out beforehand, and then on some day when it's pouring rain out being told to ride 4 hours when you probably only want to spend 1-2 hours on a trainer indoors. Other times it will be a perfect day out, and I found myself wanting to do 120 miles, but my coach only had 1.5 hours perscribed. It was annoying as heck, and probably a third of the time, I did my own thing instead of what I was told to do, and told my coach about it afterward. For that reason, my program was constantly changing. It didn't seem worth it. The intense structure that they try to impose is the kind of stuff that burns a lot of riders out -- like my cousin, who was a semi-pro XC mtn. racer with a lot of potential. Once people started telling him that he needed structure to his training (which he didn't, he was doing just fine...) it stopped the fun, and he quit in less than 6 months. Sad...
I also felt that my coach was ALWAYS undertraining me. Seriously so. My coach must have figured, 'Hey, he's young, relatively new to the sport, and has to go to school, I best not push him too hard' but I rarely had more than a 12 hour week perscribed for me. And way too many rest day's to boot. I will admit that the off-season weight lifting program that was outlined for me was quite difficult, very complex and in depth, and seemed to be well thought out. I have been doing about 18-20 hour weeks during the school year and about 25 hour weeks once I get out for the summer, since quiting CTS about 6 months ago. I think I've grown much stronger under my own guidance and the bigger miles. ---- There are ways to improve faster than through training with CTS, since they almost certainly won't push you to your limits. If your goals are modest, then this is ok. If you want to go pro next year, look elsewhere ----
For some the program will work great. For those who don't want to ever think about constructing a program for themselves, or know exactly how to go about doing such a thing. For those who know that having a workout perscribed for them will mean that you will do it. For those who don't mind that adhering to the program outlined for you will probably mean riding 95% of the time by yourself.
The program took a lot of the fun of it out for me, since it was hard to do the workouts (intervals and such) while riding with others. My training beliefs are a lot less scientific than a lot of the stuff Carmichael and Friel preach. I have more of a 'euro-old-school' approach to training: big hours, ride hard when you're rested, ride easy when you're tired, and sleep a lot. And I throw in super-intense days where I blow myself out as needed. I ride a lot with local racing pals, and that (for me at least) keeps the training enjoyable.
If you've read five books on cycle training theory and understand basic principles of periodization, you're better off writing up your own program. Better yet, try and find some local rider who's a lot better than you, ride with them all the time, and let them basically be your 'mentor.'
A bit on myself: I'm seventeen years old. I've only raced two seasons (about to enter my third). I started the CTS coaching in the middle of my first season and quit towards the begining of my seccond season. In my two seasons racing I've become a Cat 2. Since deciding not to spend the aprox. $2,400 a year on coaching, I've used some of the cash that I'm saving on supplements and stuff like Endurox.
I do still have people who look out for me, and take a look at what I'm doing for my training. These people can kind of be considered coaches I guess. They may tell me to work on some aspect of training, but they don't perscride very specific workouts for particular days -- I do that for myself.
I think that CTS has something like a 6 month minimum that you can sign up for, so even at only $50 a month, you will be making a significant investment. Think about it...
- Maurizio
I spent aproximately a year with them under the 'Elite' program, which goes for about $280 a month I think. I had a small "coaching scholarship" from them which reduced the price by about $100 a month. Still, it was very expensive, and I had to question whether the services I recieved were really worth the price. I had a personal coach, fully customized program, ability to have my coach change the program at any time I wished, contact via phone 1-2 times week (self-initiated) for as long as I wanted, and however many e-mails I wanted to send.
I'm pretty sure that for the $50 a month that you're considering, that you'll get minimum contact with the coaching staff, and a fairly cookie-cutter program that they already have on file with little customization.
So costs asside, did I get way strong and thrive under the program? Is it better than not having a coach? These questions are HIGHLY dependant on the individual. Personally, the answer for me was no. Immagine having the entire month's workouts laid out beforehand, and then on some day when it's pouring rain out being told to ride 4 hours when you probably only want to spend 1-2 hours on a trainer indoors. Other times it will be a perfect day out, and I found myself wanting to do 120 miles, but my coach only had 1.5 hours perscribed. It was annoying as heck, and probably a third of the time, I did my own thing instead of what I was told to do, and told my coach about it afterward. For that reason, my program was constantly changing. It didn't seem worth it. The intense structure that they try to impose is the kind of stuff that burns a lot of riders out -- like my cousin, who was a semi-pro XC mtn. racer with a lot of potential. Once people started telling him that he needed structure to his training (which he didn't, he was doing just fine...) it stopped the fun, and he quit in less than 6 months. Sad...
I also felt that my coach was ALWAYS undertraining me. Seriously so. My coach must have figured, 'Hey, he's young, relatively new to the sport, and has to go to school, I best not push him too hard' but I rarely had more than a 12 hour week perscribed for me. And way too many rest day's to boot. I will admit that the off-season weight lifting program that was outlined for me was quite difficult, very complex and in depth, and seemed to be well thought out. I have been doing about 18-20 hour weeks during the school year and about 25 hour weeks once I get out for the summer, since quiting CTS about 6 months ago. I think I've grown much stronger under my own guidance and the bigger miles. ---- There are ways to improve faster than through training with CTS, since they almost certainly won't push you to your limits. If your goals are modest, then this is ok. If you want to go pro next year, look elsewhere ----
For some the program will work great. For those who don't want to ever think about constructing a program for themselves, or know exactly how to go about doing such a thing. For those who know that having a workout perscribed for them will mean that you will do it. For those who don't mind that adhering to the program outlined for you will probably mean riding 95% of the time by yourself.
The program took a lot of the fun of it out for me, since it was hard to do the workouts (intervals and such) while riding with others. My training beliefs are a lot less scientific than a lot of the stuff Carmichael and Friel preach. I have more of a 'euro-old-school' approach to training: big hours, ride hard when you're rested, ride easy when you're tired, and sleep a lot. And I throw in super-intense days where I blow myself out as needed. I ride a lot with local racing pals, and that (for me at least) keeps the training enjoyable.
If you've read five books on cycle training theory and understand basic principles of periodization, you're better off writing up your own program. Better yet, try and find some local rider who's a lot better than you, ride with them all the time, and let them basically be your 'mentor.'
A bit on myself: I'm seventeen years old. I've only raced two seasons (about to enter my third). I started the CTS coaching in the middle of my first season and quit towards the begining of my seccond season. In my two seasons racing I've become a Cat 2. Since deciding not to spend the aprox. $2,400 a year on coaching, I've used some of the cash that I'm saving on supplements and stuff like Endurox.
I do still have people who look out for me, and take a look at what I'm doing for my training. These people can kind of be considered coaches I guess. They may tell me to work on some aspect of training, but they don't perscride very specific workouts for particular days -- I do that for myself.
I think that CTS has something like a 6 month minimum that you can sign up for, so even at only $50 a month, you will be making a significant investment. Think about it...
- Maurizio
poptart
03-07-03, 07:08 PM
I found this interesting:
From and interview with Allen Lim ( you can see the full article at http://www.bike.com/template.asp?date=2%2F13%2F2003&lsectionnumber=5 )
DB: A lot of coaches have recently turned to the Internet to coach and consult athletes. It appears to be quite lucrative. Are you considering pursuing a portion of this web-based market?
Are you kidding me? First, let’s define what coaching is and is not. When I think of a coach I think of someone in my community who is physically present. A person who not only determines the activities or training for the day but who also serves as a role model, mentor, and friend to the athletes he or she coaches both on the field and in the classroom. Coaching is about developing a solid relationship with an athlete and I don’t know if you can do that with someone you haven’t met, with someone who you don’t see on a daily basis. Although I personally use the Internet to share and communicate with the athletes I work with, it’s no substitute for being out on the motor or bike with them. It’s no substitute for actually sitting down with one another and planning the program together. And it’s definitely no substitute for actually being at a race, in the follow vehicle, and communicating over the radio. Coaching is way more than a training program. A training program is way more than just a prescription of duration and intensity. My vision of coaching is to work with a group of juniors in my local community, to help out at the local bike shop or with the college team. Ultimately, I’d take a dollar from my neighbor to help him lose a few pounds before I’d take a hundred from someone over the Internet. Maybe I’m being naive and idealistic. Maybe it just doesn’t matter enough.
**************
To find a local coach check here (if you are in the US):
http://www.usacycling.org/membership/?support/coaches.html#find
From and interview with Allen Lim ( you can see the full article at http://www.bike.com/template.asp?date=2%2F13%2F2003&lsectionnumber=5 )
DB: A lot of coaches have recently turned to the Internet to coach and consult athletes. It appears to be quite lucrative. Are you considering pursuing a portion of this web-based market?
Are you kidding me? First, let’s define what coaching is and is not. When I think of a coach I think of someone in my community who is physically present. A person who not only determines the activities or training for the day but who also serves as a role model, mentor, and friend to the athletes he or she coaches both on the field and in the classroom. Coaching is about developing a solid relationship with an athlete and I don’t know if you can do that with someone you haven’t met, with someone who you don’t see on a daily basis. Although I personally use the Internet to share and communicate with the athletes I work with, it’s no substitute for being out on the motor or bike with them. It’s no substitute for actually sitting down with one another and planning the program together. And it’s definitely no substitute for actually being at a race, in the follow vehicle, and communicating over the radio. Coaching is way more than a training program. A training program is way more than just a prescription of duration and intensity. My vision of coaching is to work with a group of juniors in my local community, to help out at the local bike shop or with the college team. Ultimately, I’d take a dollar from my neighbor to help him lose a few pounds before I’d take a hundred from someone over the Internet. Maybe I’m being naive and idealistic. Maybe it just doesn’t matter enough.
**************
To find a local coach check here (if you are in the US):
http://www.usacycling.org/membership/?support/coaches.html#find
RobRyb
03-08-03, 04:14 PM
I've been training with CTS for nearly 6 months now. I've never raced, but I want to start in the Spring. I'm 39 years old, married, have a family, job, mortgage, etc. My training goals were necessarily limited because of my family situation. I was also willing to face the fact that I'm a bit old for being a novice racer.
I picked the least expensive CTS option, $29/month, 3 month minimum with the option to bail out in the first month. The options are much nicer now. Service has gone up while the price has gone down.
I stuck with the regimented schedule that Maurizio described so well. I rode long hours in the rain, usually by myself. I bought lights for my bike so I could ride at night or very early in the morning. When the weather was just too bad, I hit the trainer. It hasn't been easy, but I have to say that my outlook on training has become considerably more positive.
I was about to drop CTS when they changed the deal (as I mentioned earlier). Now I have one coach instead of working with whomever answers the phone. The schedule is adjusted for me when things come up. Still, I'm expected to hold up my end of the deal by performing all of my scheduled exercises whenever possible. The East Coast of the US has been very wet and relatively cold this winter, but I put my time in.
I feel stronger now than ever. I have none of the joint aches and muscle cramps I used to suffer from. I enjoy "training" sessions the way I used to enjoy simply riding (and the schedule includes interval days and simple riding days).
I think that success in a regimented progam like CTS has much to do with one's life experiences. After high school I joined the Marines. Four years of that will give you a hardcore (Corps?) view of training. Then I went to college where I really struggled for the first two semesters; the culture shock was a bit much. Again, I relied on my sense of discipline to pull me through. A disciplined approach is consistant with my style.
At first I also thought CTS was too easy and I complained about it quite a bit. I was steeped in the "no pain, no gain" school of training. But the coaches kept explaining that the body needs to recover in order to grow. I also remembered the time, years ago, when I trashed my triceps in the weight room and had to give up lifting for 3 months until the bruises went away. I decided to give the progam a chance as it was written. I think it was the best decision I've made since I started cycling.
My schedule is just coming out of hibernation. I've spent the winter building a foundation. Now my coach and I are supposed to build something on it. I will not be able to fully answer the original question for another six months or so. For now I can only say that I'm confident that my winter with CTS was time well spent.
To start my first racing season I'll be doing weekly training races hosted by the Chesapeake Wheelmen. For my first "real" race, I picked a local event on May 24. If that goes well, I'll be a die-hard CTS fanatic. Timthebiker, I'll let you know. Until then, consider this an honest but guarded endorsement of CTS.
I picked the least expensive CTS option, $29/month, 3 month minimum with the option to bail out in the first month. The options are much nicer now. Service has gone up while the price has gone down.
I stuck with the regimented schedule that Maurizio described so well. I rode long hours in the rain, usually by myself. I bought lights for my bike so I could ride at night or very early in the morning. When the weather was just too bad, I hit the trainer. It hasn't been easy, but I have to say that my outlook on training has become considerably more positive.
I was about to drop CTS when they changed the deal (as I mentioned earlier). Now I have one coach instead of working with whomever answers the phone. The schedule is adjusted for me when things come up. Still, I'm expected to hold up my end of the deal by performing all of my scheduled exercises whenever possible. The East Coast of the US has been very wet and relatively cold this winter, but I put my time in.
I feel stronger now than ever. I have none of the joint aches and muscle cramps I used to suffer from. I enjoy "training" sessions the way I used to enjoy simply riding (and the schedule includes interval days and simple riding days).
I think that success in a regimented progam like CTS has much to do with one's life experiences. After high school I joined the Marines. Four years of that will give you a hardcore (Corps?) view of training. Then I went to college where I really struggled for the first two semesters; the culture shock was a bit much. Again, I relied on my sense of discipline to pull me through. A disciplined approach is consistant with my style.
At first I also thought CTS was too easy and I complained about it quite a bit. I was steeped in the "no pain, no gain" school of training. But the coaches kept explaining that the body needs to recover in order to grow. I also remembered the time, years ago, when I trashed my triceps in the weight room and had to give up lifting for 3 months until the bruises went away. I decided to give the progam a chance as it was written. I think it was the best decision I've made since I started cycling.
My schedule is just coming out of hibernation. I've spent the winter building a foundation. Now my coach and I are supposed to build something on it. I will not be able to fully answer the original question for another six months or so. For now I can only say that I'm confident that my winter with CTS was time well spent.
To start my first racing season I'll be doing weekly training races hosted by the Chesapeake Wheelmen. For my first "real" race, I picked a local event on May 24. If that goes well, I'll be a die-hard CTS fanatic. Timthebiker, I'll let you know. Until then, consider this an honest but guarded endorsement of CTS.
RobRyb
03-14-03, 02:01 PM
OK, I just finished my second CTS field test about two hours ago. If you are not familiar with it, the test consists of riding two 3 mile time trials with a short break in between. The first test was back in October. Today's test came in a bit below the first effort. That sounds bad, but consider that the following:
* first time I took the test I was coming out of a summer of fast riding, not a winter of slow muscle building.
* it was about 70 degrees F when I took the first test. Today was 36 degrees.
* my log describes the wind of that October day as "calm." Today I faced a tough headwind through part of each lap.
Granted, the wind became a tailwind for part of the lap, but it's probably like riding hills. The downhills never really make up for the uphills and you end up burning more calories than you would over flat terrain. Shearing winds don't help, either.
Overall, I'm very pleased with these results and I'm going to give CTS another six months. I can't really afford a local coach, although I'd imagine that's the best option for those who can (I'm paying $22/month). If I train without a coach, I'm certain that I'll never come up to racing speed. I can compare my weight, size of my thighs, and my log entries from before CTS and see that I'm making progress. Now I'm anxious to see if they can deliver the goods after a tough winter's training.
Good luck, Tim, and please let us know what you decide. I'd also like to know in October or November if your choice met your expectations.
* first time I took the test I was coming out of a summer of fast riding, not a winter of slow muscle building.
* it was about 70 degrees F when I took the first test. Today was 36 degrees.
* my log describes the wind of that October day as "calm." Today I faced a tough headwind through part of each lap.
Granted, the wind became a tailwind for part of the lap, but it's probably like riding hills. The downhills never really make up for the uphills and you end up burning more calories than you would over flat terrain. Shearing winds don't help, either.
Overall, I'm very pleased with these results and I'm going to give CTS another six months. I can't really afford a local coach, although I'd imagine that's the best option for those who can (I'm paying $22/month). If I train without a coach, I'm certain that I'll never come up to racing speed. I can compare my weight, size of my thighs, and my log entries from before CTS and see that I'm making progress. Now I'm anxious to see if they can deliver the goods after a tough winter's training.
Good luck, Tim, and please let us know what you decide. I'd also like to know in October or November if your choice met your expectations.
Wampus
12-09-03, 05:38 AM
I know this has been awhile with this thread but, I was wondering how you made out RobRyb with CTS. I am enjoying a "free" first month with them and debating if I should continue and at what level of service.
I think that they are doing a good job up to this point but I am also enrolled at the Expert level. $150/month for 4 hours of time. Once a week feed back is nice but it is a fair bit of money.
I think that they are doing a good job up to this point but I am also enrolled at the Expert level. $150/month for 4 hours of time. Once a week feed back is nice but it is a fair bit of money.
sebring
12-09-03, 08:27 AM
Why not buy the box set of CTS trainer videos instead. For $50 a month, your probably going to get what's prescribed on each video with rest days in between.
RobRyb
01-12-04, 07:39 AM
Wampus,
Sorry for the slow reply, I haven't checked this board in awhile. I finally dropped CTS due to an inability to keep up with the training. My "other" life just overwhelmed my cycling life (wife & three kids, job, house, etc.).
During the time I could keep up I found that CTS provided a very good schedule. I was enrolled in the cheapest plan, $30/month, 1/2 hour phone time with a coach. It's not a very good plan because they often switch coaches on you. That's the entry level position for them. I only entered two races last year and finished with the pack in the first one. By the time I raced again my training effort had slipped considerably and I was nowhere near ready. Nobody's fault but mine.
The thing I found lacking was that there is NO face time with a coach. There were countless times that I wanted the experience of a coach with me while I trained. Even riding with a coach once per month would have made a world of difference. Certain things just take experience (like sprinting and hill climbing at racing speed). That's where a coach just can't help you over the phone.
Best of luck!
Rob
Sorry for the slow reply, I haven't checked this board in awhile. I finally dropped CTS due to an inability to keep up with the training. My "other" life just overwhelmed my cycling life (wife & three kids, job, house, etc.).
During the time I could keep up I found that CTS provided a very good schedule. I was enrolled in the cheapest plan, $30/month, 1/2 hour phone time with a coach. It's not a very good plan because they often switch coaches on you. That's the entry level position for them. I only entered two races last year and finished with the pack in the first one. By the time I raced again my training effort had slipped considerably and I was nowhere near ready. Nobody's fault but mine.
The thing I found lacking was that there is NO face time with a coach. There were countless times that I wanted the experience of a coach with me while I trained. Even riding with a coach once per month would have made a world of difference. Certain things just take experience (like sprinting and hill climbing at racing speed). That's where a coach just can't help you over the phone.
Best of luck!
Rob
Wampus
02-22-04, 07:35 AM
Thanks Rod,
I did sign up and continue with the $150/month level. So far most of my work has been indoors. I will say that it has been helpful just to be accountable to someone. Everything changes when you have to explain to someone else why you didn't jump on the bike. Your excuses that sounded good at the time seem lame when vocalize them :) . The "other" life does take priority (wife, 2 kids, dog, house ect....) Cycling to me has always been a way of getting rid of the stress and keeping fit. I will not be winning any races, it's just fun to get out there and maybe be with some of the better riders.
I have been getting stronger and everything is going in the right direction. I have a strange work schedule so the coaching does help in making up a workout plan. It has been helpful listing to an experienced person why I am doing somethings and what is happening in the overall plan.
It is difficult to learn the technical stuff from over the phone. You really need to be with someone to see and experience it. This is a definate downside. I'm going to give it a go for awhile and see how this works out. I plan on a seeing how I sit in August and re-evalute. So far, just me being on the bike is a major plus. I have always hung it up come winter and started from square one in the spring, this year will be a lot diffrent.
Thanks for the feedback!
I did sign up and continue with the $150/month level. So far most of my work has been indoors. I will say that it has been helpful just to be accountable to someone. Everything changes when you have to explain to someone else why you didn't jump on the bike. Your excuses that sounded good at the time seem lame when vocalize them :) . The "other" life does take priority (wife, 2 kids, dog, house ect....) Cycling to me has always been a way of getting rid of the stress and keeping fit. I will not be winning any races, it's just fun to get out there and maybe be with some of the better riders.
I have been getting stronger and everything is going in the right direction. I have a strange work schedule so the coaching does help in making up a workout plan. It has been helpful listing to an experienced person why I am doing somethings and what is happening in the overall plan.
It is difficult to learn the technical stuff from over the phone. You really need to be with someone to see and experience it. This is a definate downside. I'm going to give it a go for awhile and see how this works out. I plan on a seeing how I sit in August and re-evalute. So far, just me being on the bike is a major plus. I have always hung it up come winter and started from square one in the spring, this year will be a lot diffrent.
Thanks for the feedback!
jon123
02-24-04, 05:00 PM
I have been doing CTS for about 6 months now and my results are mix of everything I have heard so far. The rigidity of the program-bad. I live in NYC, so the weather is variable, and impossible to ride outside in the winter. So I improvise on the workouts. I probably don't get as much as I otherwise would, but as we say in the bronx, what'chu gonna do? If nothing else, for a beginning rider, it gives you some ideas about how to train effectively and vary your workouts to work on different aspects of riding. Having said that, I wouldn't spend 280 dollars a month on that if you put a gun to my head.