Foo - Bye Bye Schumi

Since no one else started one, here's a thread for Schumacher's retirement. I've always been a massive fan of his, but was beginning to think that another season or two might not be the best idea. The sport will not be the same without him. Kimi in a Ferrari vs Alonso in Mclaren will be sweet in '07. Here's to hoping Schumi can end it with championship #8.

i'm beginning to wonder how great this new rivalry will be. kimi and alonso have both shown very little ability to develop a car. mclaren hasn't improved at all since the days of hakinnen, and alonso won the championship last year after inheriting what was already a good car. now he's about to lose the championship single-handedly.
another sad thing is that kimi has about the dryest personality i've ever seen. "i won. this is good. maybe next week we will win again. this will also be good."

oh well. but yeah, very sad that schumacher is leaving. maybe he'll have second thoughts and end-up back in the (benetton)renault.

Isn't Schumi one of those things they serve when you eat Dim Sum?

i'm beginning to wonder how great this new rivalry will be. kimi and alonso have both shown very little ability to develop a car. mclaren hasn't improved at all since the days of hakinnen, and alonso won the championship last year after inheriting what was already a good car. now he's about to lose the championship single-handedly.
another sad thing is that kimi has about the dryest personality i've ever seen. "i won. this is good. maybe next week we will win again. this will also be good."

oh well. but yeah, very sad that schumacher is leaving. maybe he'll have second thoughts and end-up back in the (benetton)renault.

In his defense Kimi is probably a little more sparkling in finnish. There is such a shuffle of drivers coming up that next season is totally up in the air but I think there is a good chance Schumi will take it this year and if he wanted to settle for a few less euros he could probably make a good run at it next year if he could bury the hatchet with Ron Dennis or Flavio. He's really quite young and I think he genuinely enjoys racing, he wouldn't come cheap but not many can turn as fast a lap. Anything but NASCAR.

another sad thing is that kimi has about the dryest personality i've ever seen. "i won. this is good. maybe next week we will win again. this will also be good."

Lol

Hope Michael and Ferrari end it with one last championship. I wonder if we will see him show up anywhere else? Would be nace to see a Ferrari in NASCAR.:D

i'm beginning to wonder how great this new rivalry will be. kimi and alonso have both shown very little ability to develop a car. mclaren hasn't improved at all since the days of hakinnen, and alonso won the championship last year after inheriting what was already a good car. now he's about to lose the championship single-handedly.
another sad thing is that kimi has about the dryest personality i've ever seen. "i won. this is good. maybe next week we will win again. this will also be good."

oh well. but yeah, very sad that schumacher is leaving. maybe he'll have second thoughts and end-up back in the (benetton)renault.
rofl. where is Kimi from?

he's a finn.

Hope and Ferrari end it with one last championship. I wonder if we will see him show up anywhere else? Would be nace to see a Ferrari in NASCAR.:D

Ha, i'm guessing you didn't hear what MS said about Nascar when news of montoya switching got there.

I was about to make a post about it, I came back from a century, did a few things, then watched the race. I didn't care for Lance when he left cycling but for some reason I was a bit emotional when schumi announced his retirement.

They don't call Kimi the Ice Man for no reason.

The Schu will be missed in the sport. He certainly defined "attack mode" driving like no other.

Are you freakin' kidding me!? Good riddance! Don't let the door hit you in the *ss on the way out Mikey. Flame me if you like but this is my opinion. He's overated. Until recently...he's always been able to bring a Ferrari to a horse race.

While I respect his talent and his titles, he was not a very good sportsman and (at least during the majority of the Ferrari years) drove a car that was often far superior to the other drivers. The sport has only recently made real strides to level the playing field somewhat for the other teams who do not have to epicly large wallet that Ferrari has. And Gee...suddenly he's not dominating everyone...hmmm... go figure. Very seldom did you see him own up to on track incidents that were his fault and other incidents like the Monaco qualifying crap he pulled this year, trying to run Villenueve off the track in the last race of 97 season etc..are just a few of the many reasons I say " addios Mikey...F1 will be better off without you."

rofl. where is Kimi from?

Uranus. I mean space man, ya that's it, space...

At the end of the season I will have no reason to watch.

He's overated.
While I respect his talent and his titles, he was not a very good sportsman and (at least during the majority of the Ferrari years) drove a car that was often far superior to the other drivers.

The sport has only recently made real strides to level the playing field somewhat for the other teams who do not have to epicly large wallet that Ferrari has. And Gee...suddenly he's not dominating everyone...hmmm... go figure. F1 will be better off without you."


overated...

you've got to be the one kidding me.


the man is completely on another level than the rest of the field, knows what it takes to win not just races, but championships...

neither benetton or ferrari had far superior cars or programs.

plus they've been trying to level the playing field for years and he dominated all...

start talking that "greatest ever stuff" and the man belongs in that discussion.

some of his monaco drives over the years were just what formula racing was meant to be...imo

and in the wet...come on...name his better... in modern times...

i would of loved to see him and aryton battle it out, once he settled down a bit...we were so robbed....

i'm hoping schms' doesn't do it in the end, i'm greedy...

i want more...

these new guys just aren't getting it down for me...

but F1 always lives on...

Are you freakin' kidding me!? Good riddance! Don't let the door hit you in the *ss on the way out Mikey. Flame me if you like but this is my opinion. He's overated. Until recently...he's always been able to bring a Ferrari to a horse race.

While I respect his talent and his titles, he was not a very good sportsman and (at least during the majority of the Ferrari years) drove a car that was often far superior to the other drivers. The sport has only recently made real strides to level the playing field somewhat for the other teams who do not have to epicly large wallet that Ferrari has. And Gee...suddenly he's not dominating everyone...hmmm... go figure. Very seldom did you see him own up to on track incidents that were his fault and other incidents like the Monaco qualifying crap he pulled this year, trying to run Villenueve off the track in the last race of 97 season etc..are just a few of the many reasons I say " addios Mikey...F1 will be better off without you."
But from the sounds of it, regardless of how much of an ******* he was, he seemed to be the most ineresting and entertaining character in that sports/event/whatever it is.

Yeah, I admit Michael has his flaws, but if he is so overated why would they have to level the playing field to compensate for him?

Regarding Kimi. He really used to tick me off in his early Mclaren days. I could understand about 1 in every 5 words he said. He has now vastly improved to 1 in 3. Normally I can't stand it when a driver does well and doesn't really seem to give a crap about it, but for some reason it is comical with Kimi.

Speaking of emotionless drivers, did anyone see Kubica in the interview today? Priceless.

overated...

you've got to be the one kidding me.


the man is completely on another level than the rest of the field, knows what it takes to win not just races, but championships...

neither benetton or ferrari had far superior cars or programs.

plus they've been trying to level the playing field for years and he dominated all...

start talking that "greatest ever stuff" and the man belongs in that discussion.

some of his monaco drives over the years were just what formula racing was meant to be...imo

and in the wet...come on...name his better... in modern times...

i would of loved to see him and aryton battle it out, once he settled down a bit...we were so robbed....

i'm hoping schms' doesn't do it in the end, i'm greedy...

i want more...

these new guys just aren't getting it down for me...

but F1 always lives on...

My opinions as a long time F1 follower and yours. We are both entitled to them. ;)

Yes..he is extremely talented (i never said he wasn't)and yes, he in all probability is one of the best wet weather drivers of all time. BUT...I have to utterly shake my head at you saying that Ferrari didn't have far superior cars/programs through almost all of the years Michael was there!!?? Are you freakin' kidding ME!? Man! Get real on that one! That is why I say he is overated. If you don't think having vastly superior budgets and equipment makes you look like superman...perhaps you aren't involved in racing. I have been for many years.

Otherwise...like I said..your opinion...my opinion...we're both entitled. Mostly, I never like him as a sportsman and he lack of remorse for anything he did on the track. His commments about american racing and nascar drivers in particular put the final nail in his coffin for me. So he thinks Tony Stewart has no pure driving gifts(although I'm not a fan of his at all I see the talent) or how about Jeff Gordon? or Robby Gordon?? Or road racers like Borris Said? No Michael is and always has been about Michael and his ego.

I agree that losing Aryton was tragic and a great loss to F1 and the fans. :(

I pray that he retires, as the sport will be better off without him. Alonso, Riakkonen, Massa, Rosberg, Speed and others will step in and win races. More winners, means less "Oh...Ferrari and Schu are 2 seconds a lap faster than everyone else?....Wake me when it's exciting again O.K." Last year and this year have been two of the most interesting F1 seasons in a long, long time (Indy05 excluded). The sport will not suffer when he is gone. I for one think it will be better off in the long run.:) Go Alonso!!

Yeah, I admit Michael has his flaws, but if he is so overated why would they have to level the playing field to compensate for him?.

Equipment!!! Research how EPIC the budget of Ferrari has been (and still is) in relationship to the other teams. No one will ever tell me that he wasn't in far superior cars almost all the years he was with Ferrari. Equipment, budgets and R&D/testing time etc... is what F1 has been trying to level out in the sport for a while now. And Ferrari was by far the biggest offender here. But Ferrari would have none of it, even when every other team agreed on it. Now that in itself is not Schumacher's fault mind you. BUT...He's overated, because he got to bring a Ferrari to a chariot race for a good many years now. So they were not so much compensating for him, but for the superior car/team/testing etc.. that Ferrari provided him with. He knows he's not going to dominate with the car like he used to , not have as big of technical advantage as he has had so he's stepping aside. He's smart actually. I don't buy the whole... "his skills have diminished" thing. He sees the hadwriting on the wall and knows it's better to go out on top than get his ass handed to him in the future.

Um, if it was all about budget, research, investment, and money, I think Toyota would be in a weeee bit of a better place, considering they spent more on their engine alone than most other teams (save Ferrari) spent on EVERYTHING for the season.

I'm a diehard MS fan, but I try not to argue about it. If other people can't recognise his brilliance, that's their problem, not mine. :D


I pray that he retires, as the sport will be better off without him. Alonso, Riakkonen, Massa, Rosberg, Speed and others will step in and win races. More winners, means less "Oh...Ferrari and Schu are 2 seconds a lap faster than everyone else?....Wake me when it's exciting again O.K." Last year and this year have been two of the most interesting F1 seasons in a long, long time (Indy05 excluded). The sport will not suffer when he is gone. I for one think it will be better off in the long run. Go Alonso

This seems like a pretty common argument, and my counter is this: What do you watch racing for? For competition, or for greatness? Personally, I'm in it for greatness - I want to see a stupidly fast car piloted by a stupidly talented driver, supported by an amazingly talented team. If no one else can keep up, that doesn't make it less exciting for me.

Coming from that perspective, MS and Ferrari's absolute, total, world-beating, record-smashing domination for the last 6 -8 years (save this and last year, of course) have been the most exciting thing possible.

On the other hand, it seems like you're coming at this from a perspective of "I want to see neck-and-neck competition." That's great, I guess - but if you have to cheer for the best driver from the best team to retire to get what you want, aren't you kind of cutting off the head of the sport? It would be like baseball fans getting excited when Babe Ruth retired because, hey - finally - we can see LESSER players and teams do well! YIPPEE! That just doesn't make sense to me.

Um, if it was all about budget, research, investment, and money, I think Toyota would be in a weeee bit of a better place, considering they spent more on their engine alone than most other teams (save Ferrari) spent on EVERYTHING for the season.

I'm a diehard MS fan, but I try not to argue about it. If other people can't recognise his brilliance, that's their problem, not mine. :D



This seems like a pretty common argument, and my counter is this: What do you watch racing for? For competition, or for greatness? Personally, I'm in it for greatness - I want to see a stupidly fast car piloted by a stupidly talented driver, supported by an amazingly talented team. If no one else can keep up, that doesn't make it less exciting for me.

Coming from that perspective, MS and Ferrari's absolute, total, world-beating, record-smashing domination for the last 6 -8 years (save this and last year, of course) have been the most exciting thing possible.

On the other hand, it seems like you're coming at this from a perspective of "I want to see neck-and-neck competition." That's great, I guess - but if you have to cheer for the best driver from the best team to retire to get what you want, aren't you kind of cutting off the head of the sport? It would be like baseball fans getting excited when Babe Ruth retired because, hey - finally - we can see LESSER players and teams do well! YIPPEE! That just doesn't make sense to me.
That was the way it was with Lance Armstrong too :p

Ha, i'm guessing you didn't hear what MS said about Nascar when news of montoya switching got there.

What did he say? I was sure someone would say what what I was thinking but I missed it in the news. I still can't believe JP left F1.

Its sad to see MS go, but I think it's time. It is always painfull to watch a former champion fade into oblivion. I remember watching him in the early 90's and it was obvious he had great talent. If I remember correctly, his Benetton car was not up to par with the cars of Ayrton Senna and Nigel Mansel and he seemed to be able to hang with them.

As far as the future goes, I think Raikkonnen and Alonso will provide plenty of exciting racing (if not post race interviews ;)). I think most of KR's problem have been his team/car but we'll see.

What did he say? I was sure someone would say what what I was thinking but I missed it in the news. I still can't believe JP left F1.

Of all the F1 drivers, he made the most sense switching to NASCAR, imho. He's definitely a "personality" and seems to like aggressive moves, and being in the mix close to other cars - if you look back, his "greatest moments" all seem to be daring (stooopid, IMHO) passes, not ultra-quick solo laps.


If I remember correctly, his Benetton car was not up to par with the cars of Ayrton Senna and Nigel Mansel and he seemed to be able to hang with them.

How soon people forget! When he signed with Ferrari, there was an exodus of support staff from Benetton to Ferrari. I don't recall any other such move of non-drivers following a driver, IMHO that shows he had support and recognition from the people close to him.

In his defense Kimi is probably a little more sparkling in finnish.

Y'all have to take my word on this: he is not. :) Not in his official statements anyway. I've never seen him in real life, so for all I know he could be a real sunshine there...

And I have mixed feelings about Schumi. While he is a great driver, some of his stunts during the years have been stupid, un-sportsmanlike and outright dangerous. And with Ferrari now complaining about Alonso vs. Massa in Monza and getting Alonso's starting position moved back it seems the whole team is on the Dark Side. I hope they regain some manners for the remaining 3 races, but I won't be holding my breath.

One person worth watching will be Kovalainen as he starts as a Renault race driver... as a test driver he has more experience in the Renault F1 car than anyone else.

--J

Um, if it was all about budget, research, investment, and money, I think Toyota would be in a weeee bit of a better place, considering they spent more on their engine alone than most other teams (save Ferrari) spent on EVERYTHING for the season.

This seems like a pretty common argument, and my counter is this: What do you watch racing for? For competition, or for greatness?
On the other hand, it seems like you're coming at this from a perspective of "I want to see neck-and-neck competition." That's great, I guess - but if you have to cheer for the best driver from the best team to retire to get what you want, aren't you kind of cutting off the head of the sport? It would be like baseball fans getting excited when Babe Ruth retired because, hey - finally - we can see LESSER players and teams do well! YIPPEE! That just doesn't make sense to me.

Toyota does spend a boat load of money (second only to Ferrair I think). But they don't have a true championship caliber driver on that team.

I watch all sports primarily for the competition aspect, but I can appreciate greatness. I'm more of the neck and neck, excitment, close competition guy than the two seconds faster a lap, in a better car lapping the filed snooze fest that F1 was for quite some time.

Not cutting off the head. Just, giving other talented drivers a chance to shine. Let's face it...there are even less quality rides in F1 than in Nascar or the IRL etc... Maybe three teams a season have had any real shot at a drivers championship. Even though I'm a big fan, this has always been a huge problem for F1 racing IMHO.

The sport will be better without him. Like it or not, it's more intersting when any one of say five or six guys could potentially win any given gran prix. Right now, there are basically two Michael and Fernando. Maybe throw Kimi into that mix, but that's it this year. One guy winning twelve races does not makes for very exciting racing when he clearly is going away from the entire field in his uber car.:) Just not a fan of Schu, if you are that's fine. I'm not. We'll agree to have differing points of view I guess.

Y'all have to take my word on this: he is not. :) Not in his official statements anyway. I've never seen him in real life, so for all I know he could be a real sunshine there...

And I have mixed feelings about Schumi. While he is a great driver, some of his stunts during the years have been stupid, un-sportsmanlike and outright dangerous. And with Ferrari now complaining about Alonso vs. Massa in Monza and getting Alonso's starting position moved back it seems the whole team is on the Dark Side. I hope they regain some manners for the remaining 3 races, but I won't be holding my breath.

One person worth watching will be Kovalainen as he starts as a Renault race driver... as a test driver he has more experience in the Renault F1 car than anyone else.

--J

This was an excellent post. Good to see I'm not the only one who feels this way. I've not commented on the Massa/Alnoso qualifying thing until now, but I watched it and I think it was not justified to penalize him. If anything, he probably pulled Massa along. BUT again.... Ferrari is Ferrari.:rolleyes:

Not cutting off the head. Just, giving other talented drivers a chance to shine. Let's face it...there are even less quality rides in F1 than in Nascar or the IRL etc... Maybe three teams a season have had any real shot at a drivers championship. Even though I'm a big fan, this has always been a huge problem for F1 racing IMHO.

Again, we have different viewpoints. :D That's one of the things I LIKE about F1. There's actually some DIFFERENCE in the cars and teams, though certainly a lot less now than a few decades ago. It's not just another cookie cutter motorsport where everyone's driving the same exact thing with different graphics.

I guess to sum it up - to me, F1 is really about three things:

1) The driver
2) The car
3) The team

Other motorsports tend to concentrate on the driver, and that's fine. I really enjoy the fact that, in F1, there are obviously some cars quicker and some slower than the rest. I enjoy cheering for the people who have managed to scrape together the means to make a superior car. I enjoy cheering for the team that can pull off the fastest pit stop - and, I enjoy cheering for a driver who can, even when those things don't go quite right, still manage to pull away from the pack.

On top of that, the fact that F1 depends on more than just the driver means that, every few decades, we get a magical moment when all of the above pieces are operating at 100% and working together seamlessly. You're taking the approach that Mikey's dominance was boring. From my point of view, it's been one of the most exciting times in F1 history. Smashing pretty much every record considered "important" is certainly an amazing feat, and I'm glad that I was around to witness it.

Equipment!!! Research how EPIC the budget of Ferrari has been (and still is) in relationship to the other teams. No one will ever tell me that he wasn't in far superior cars almost all the years he was with Ferrari. Equipment, budgets and R&D/testing time etc... is what F1 has been trying to level out in the sport for a while now. And Ferrari was by far the biggest offender here. But Ferrari would have none of it, even when every other team agreed on it. Now that in itself is not Schumacher's fault mind you. BUT...He's overated, because he got to bring a Ferrari to a chariot race for a good many years now. So they were not so much compensating for him, but for the superior car/team/testing etc.. that Ferrari provided him with. He knows he's not going to dominate with the car like he used to , not have as big of technical advantage as he has had so he's stepping aside. He's smart actually. I don't buy the whole... "his skills have diminished" thing. He sees the hadwriting on the wall and knows it's better to go out on top than get his ass handed to him in the future.

Ok, last time I'm gonna go back and forth on this. You have your opinion and you are entitled to it. However, using your logic hasn't every World Campion been overated? When was the last time someone won it without the best car? That's the whole appeal of F1 in my opinion. Builde the best car you can and put the best driver in it you can afford. I think you need to do some research on the budget thing to. Ferrari has one of the largest in the sport, but Toyota and Honda are very close. When you consider that palace Mclaren built a few years back they are nothing to sniff at either.

To Saabfan,

You do make a compelling case for your point of view. And perhaps differing point of views and desires as to what is exciting are the main thing we have been discussing. I point out "discussing" because I have thoroughly enjoyed the response in this thread(most notably yours). :) All the replies and counter replies have been pretty respectful and engaging. Our views, although coming from different places, are well founded and well written. People can agree to disagree and still have intelligent conversations. :) ;) And while you have not changed my mind or I yours,I respect your opinion and I've found our dialogue interesting. Thanks!:D

Cycle17,

I can definitely understand your point of view, as well. The way I see it though, there are lots of other motorsports out there that are exciting in the way you're looking for, while MS's dominance has been totally amazing, and pretty unique to F1.

That said, I'm looking forward to the next few years. I think we've finally got our next rookie champion. I won't say who though, because that'll probably spark a whole new debate!

I remember at one point, Mercedes/Mclaren had a superior car than Ferrari. When Ferrari had Schumi and Barichello, and Mercedes had Hakinenn/Couldhart.

Or was it Schumi/Irvine? I can't remember, it's all a blur.

Mclaren-Mercedes arguably had a superior car in '04 and '05 or so. Of course, they seemed to have trouble keeping it in one piece. :D

It's not really so much about the car than it is about the tires.

That's arguable. :D