Group Rides - +s and -s?

[ticwanos]

I have never done a group ride. Except for the times I have gone for slow rambles with my wife, I have always ridden solo. I ride in T-shirts, cutoff and sneakers on vintage steel (the most I have ever paid for a bike is $70), so I definitely come across as the ol' grey-bearded phart that I am (I'm 56), instead of a studly young fashion plate mounted on a cutting edge, 12 lb wonder. Still, I am curious and I have been wondering what are the pros and cons of group rides. The husband (he is 59) of a co-worker experienced a bad crash on a group ride and got out of biking completely; I do NOT want to do that. I have read a few threads in various forums that have described "hammerfests", cliches, and sundry negative vibes projected to newbies, so my first impression is that it may not be for me. But part of me would like the camradery (sp?) that I expect would be part and parcel of riding with like-minded souls. Am I missing out on anything? What is the good, the bad and the ugly here? Inquiring minds want to know. Thanks.

[DnvrFox]

The answer is - "It depends!"

There are as many types of group rides as there are group rides.

Today, I am leading a small group ride for the "seniors" in our church. It will be relaxed, likely about 15 miles, we will stop frequently to regroup, and we will go to lunch afterwards.

I have been on group rides where they give you a map, fail to introduce anyone, point in a direction, and off you go. Absolutely NO camaraderie. Might as well ride solo. Sixty miles on your own.

And I have been on group rides where the average speed is about 14 mph, there are introductions, etc. and you all sort of ride together. No drafting, simply recreational.

So, it depends. Whatever you want, you are likely to find it if you search it out.

How about forming your own group?

[rm -rf]

If you find a local club, call or email the ride leader to get more details. Sometimes the rides turn into faster rides than they are originally set for.

The Cincinnati Cycle Club has the usual fast rides, but also has easier paced rides. Here's a few examples. The CCC rides list the average speed for the ride, which is lower than the speed on flat roads, since it includes slow hills and stopping at lights.

SLOW RIDE / 9:30-10:00am / 10-20mi. / 10mph. / Designed for new riders or those who want an easy ride. Routes and starting location vary. Call to confirm start time and location or consult Rideline. This ride will go on nice days only.

THURSDAY WANDERERS / ~10:00am / 25-35mi. / 11-12mph. / Different route each week. Moderate pace (11-12 mph) adjusted to riders needs. No one left behind. Lunch is usually after the ride. Call Ken or join the Ride Line Email List on the CCC website for information on exact starting time and location.

[Pat]

There are plenty of rides out there that cater to riders who are not the least bit interested in "hammerfests". You just need to find out about the clubs or groups in your area and investigate.

[bcoppola]

In my corner of the world I have three clubs to choose from: the "Slow Spokes" -- name says it all. Relaxed, social, smallish groups. The Clinton River Riders (my club), pretty much a middle of the road outfit with rides from easy to pretty fast. And then the Wolverines, who count among their current members and alumni some top amateur and pro racers including some TDF and Olympic riders. Fast but still quite social, which surprised me. Also tend to be large groups. Doing 20mph+ thru a subdivision in a pack of 30+ riders can be, um, exhilirating if not a bit scary! I ride with all three depending on the pace and convenience. Of course, with the Wolverines I do mainly their "recovery" and "moderate" rated rides.

I ride with all three, depending on who has a ride at a pace I want on a night that's convenient.

Riding with a group, and the social interaction, are motivators for me. If I had to count on my motivation to ride solo I'd be a lard butt. I do ride solo once or twice a week in addition to 2-4 club rides per week.

Also, as often noted, riding with a group can push you to ride faster (even allowing for drafting) and farther than you might solo.

But it all depends on your personality.

[stonecrd]

As said it depends completely on the club. I tried out three different ones before I found one I liked. Some are just hammerfests others are just recreational. I was lucky to find a big club in the area that has multiple A+, A, B, C, D and starter rides. Each week they run at least 4 rides at about the same distance 40mi and with different average speeds and stop or no stop. The nice thing about this for me is that if I feel good I go out with the A+ and if I get dropped the A group sweeps us up. On some weekends I feel like taking it easy I may go out with the B or C group. I find riding in big 20-40 rider groups a lot of fun and when you are in the A+ group going 25mph in the middle of the group it is quite an adrenaline rush.

[rule]

There is a big club in my area that frequently rides out from their city into my neck of the country woods. I encounter their rides out on my training loop. You can ride up to their beginner groups and feel like you are missing out on some good times. They are friendly, engaging and clearly having a blast. All the same, you can ride up on their intermediate groups and it can be hit and miss. Their A rides are typically all business. It is pretty consistent, and a lot of that goes hand in hand with the levels of competitiveness from the different ride groups. It's funny how your perspective about this club can depend upon which of their groups you encounter.

The only way to find out is to do some riding on your own with the groups in your area. The good part is that it really isn't that hard to figure out if a group is for you. And with most groups it is definitely easy enough to explore their rides without having to accept the prospects of a crash in the bargain. Clubs like that don't typically last long.

I say go for it.

[bkaapcke]

I like riding with a few friends (not more than 4). The pace is usually faster than when I ride alone and yet it is easy because you don't notice the pace when riding/chatting with friends. It aslo avoids the accident potential encountered with a large group. By the way, if you are a committed rider, get over this $70.00 bikle thing. You will really enjoy nice equipment. bk

[ticwanos]

This is helpful information. Thanks to all. Clearly the only way I will know what it is about is to get out there and do it. Won't know till I try it. If I'm lucky I'll find some peers. Regards the $70 bike thing -- with two kids in college, I just try to find the best garage sale vintage steel I can and try to keep them in optimum condition. One of these days I'll find that Paramount! One more question to all -- What are your best - and worst - experiences with group rides. I'll bet there are some trancendental - and horrific - tales out there.

[Mojo Slim]

My favorite rides are with 2 - 4 friends of similar age/interests/speed. We had a blast on a local century earlier this year. Light rain, headwinds (then 8 whole miles of tailwind), sunshine, wildlife, one long, steep hill and ending in a hailstorm so think the stones were bouncing off our helmets and the road was covered so much for a few miles that we had to ride in the tracks of cars that had gone by (in the opposite direction). We all agreed it was one of our favorite rides ever because we enjoyed each other.

[will dehne]

One more question to all -- What are your best - and worst - experiences with group rides. I'll bet there are some trancendental - and horrific - tales out there.

Riding with a group will provide distractions which may cause accidents. OTOH, group rides will provide help if you need it and the visibility of the group may make you a little safer from speeding cars. (iffy)
Biking long distances: Pace lines will increase your speed significantly. However, pace-lines are not for sight-seeing. You concentrate on this wheel one foot in front of you.
I did Pace-lines and Pelotons with the Michigan Wolverines. (as bcoppola posted above) The guys were very competitive and made it a quest to drop outsiders like me.
I did Pace-lines and Pelotons across the USA. That was a lifesaver for 150 miles/day against wind and driving cold rain.
I prefer solo rides or a loosely connected group. (Except on XC or fast centuries)

[jppe]

Some of my most memorable rides have been with groups, while other memorable rides have been solo. I prefer solo rides when I need some time to think, work on particular things like intervals, or climbing or just want to sit up and do my own thing.

On the other hand there is nothing like a group ride where you're riding with folks of similar ability. You're moving along at a faster pace while exerting less energy. Plus I really enjoy "socializing" with other cyclists and meeting different people who have a similar interest. It's critical that on group rides folks use common sense and the basic safety measures to prevent an accident. The key to enjoyable group rides is riding with folks of a similar ability and with people that look out for each other.

For me, there's a time and place for both group and solo rides. I really enjoy both of them.

[TysonB]

Ticwanos,

I like the groups I ride with. We live in a small town of 6,500 people and there is a core group of 25-30 regular riders of all abilities. On any given Wednesday evening 15 - 20 of these will ride. We all meet at the Y and head for dinner at the same time . . . some have left early in groups of 2-5. Others ride a shorter route. Others race the whole route at 20 mph plus. The idea is that we all get to the dinner spot at about the same time. It's really fun. A trailer and a few p/u's bring the bikes back to our YMCA after dark with all of us tired fat and full of pie!

On Saturdays, it's at 'em at 6:15 a.m. if light is available. Then 4-6 of us hammer it out. The best riders are young guys who can, but DON"T drop us others. We others take brief pulls at the front or suck wheel the whole way. No one cares and everyone gets all the workout they want. The A+ guys can ride a few hills and do intervals on their way back home after a cup of coffee and B/S with the rest of us.

These are fun rides. Hope you can find a situation like these for yourself. You will find you stretch yourself a bit and the time goes fast if you're talking and playing around while riding. BTW, at some level this is a sport like any other, and it has inherent dangers. Crashing is part of the sport and can happen at ANY time, in pace lines or not. Be careful out there.

Tyson
Cushing, Oklahoma

Sorry for the longish post.

[doctor j]

I rode solo exclusively for about a year on my Cro-Moly Specialized HardRock with knobbys. Rode the roads and not the trails. I was a bit hesitant to ride with a group until I got my legs in shape. Recently, I happened upon a group on my return trip, and they invited me to ride in with them. I had a great time. This group consists of men and women, road bikes, mountain bikes, and recumbents. Age range is from 20's to late 60's. There are a few speed demons in the crowd, but they stop after a while and let the group catch up. This group rides some fairly narrow roads that I would not ride alone, no shoulders, but with a bunch of bikes, there is visibility. Riding with the group has allowed me to look at what people are riding, and learn what they like about their bikes and what they don't like. I've enjoyed the group thing thus far.

[big john]

I have been riding with a local club off and on since 1989 and I live for group rides. I still ride solo sometimes but I really look forward to the fun of group rides with the right people. Most of the regulars can drop me in the hills, but they always wait and don't seem to mind. We tell jokes and stories, discuss politics and, of course, bikes and bike racing. These people add so much to my riding and I would truly miss them if I went solo all the time.
It's true that it can be dangerous riding with others, but be careful and you will figure out who to avoid.

[roadfix]

I have been riding with a local club off and on since 1989 and I live for group rides. I still ride solo sometimes but I really look forward to the fun of group rides with the right people. Most of the regulars can drop me in the hills, but they always wait and don't seem to mind. We tell jokes and stories, discuss politics and, of course, bikes and bike racing. These people add so much to my riding and I would truly miss them if I went solo all the time.
It's true that it can be dangerous riding with others, but be careful and you will figure out who to avoid.

+1.... I ride with John's group from time to time. Definitely a great bunch of people to ride with!..:)

[dbg]

I'd go one further and look for group rides on multi-day tours. I love it. The annual Wisconsin trip I've joined has a little of everything. One day you'll find yourself desparately hanging on to a paceline and feeling really cool earning your big lunch. The next day you might be riding sweep helping out with repairs and flats and keeping track of the kids. Other days are just like a long party --you mingle and socialize up and down the line enjoying the company and scenery. And at the end of every day there are beers and snacks waiting under the overhang of that night's motel. I mostly don't ever want it to end.

[will dehne]

Above posts make me feel like an extinct dinosaur. I love nothing more than a solo Tandem ride with my wife on Wisconsin's long Rails to Trails. We are married for over 40 years and still find great pleasure in these tours.
We have tried group tours and found pleasure in the independence of our solo rides. We often do vacations for one or two weeks that way.
I am not trying to convince anybody but let you know that there are other folks out there.

[backinthesaddle]

Over the past month...

...I've soloed,where I could choose my own route and my own pace, good for training

...I've been on long group rides, which are sociable and challenging at the same time, some riders ahead of me to challenge me, some riders side by side to talk to, some behind me, which is especially gratifying as now I'm no longer the last.

...I've been on organized rides where we're given a cue sheet in the morning, and eventually you find your way to the destination, either riding alone or with spontaneous groups that form and then dissolve

Each one I've enjoyed in its own way, my favorites are #1 for doing it my way, and #2 for kicking back and following someone else's lead, don't really have to pay attention to the directions.

[DMF]

I like riding with a few friends (not more than 4). The pace is usually faster than when I ride alone and yet it is easy because you don't notice the pace when riding/chatting with friends. It aslo avoids the accident potential encountered with a large group. Starting with a large group doesn't mean riding with a large group. I do a couple of 'Moderate' weekly rides here in nearly-urban Atlanta and while they may start with 40-80 riders, they quickly break down into smaller groups. Some hammer, some stroll. I rarely find myself in a group larger than six.

One thing to watch for is navigation. Best is a marked route. Second best is to identify a rider of your speed that knows the route. Navigating from a map or cue sheet is a pain.

[DMF]

Also in a group ride you will need to add communications that you don't have solo. Signal your turns (and watch for others' signals), signal when slowing. Call cars and other items of interest. ("Babe up!") Call your location on turns and overtaking. Communications within the group greatly reduces the chance of wrecking.

I've clashed handlebars on a turn - no fall - and it was my fault for not making the other rider aware of my presence. I also fell off once on a slow climb, but that would have happened were I solo. No other problems (except maybe stopping at two beers afterwards; one group is ride with is self-described as "a drinking club with a bike problem" ;) ).

[bcoppola]

Above posts make me feel like an extinct dinosaur. I love nothing more than a solo Tandem ride with my wife on Wisconsin's long Rails to Trails. We are married for over 40 years and still find great pleasure in these tours...

Yeah, well, you two are obviously weird. ;)

I kid, of course! Sounds perfectly lovely. If you can get along for weeks at a time on a tandem your marriage must be great.

[Artkansas]

For me, riding with a group takes all the fun out of it. I spend all my time trying to avoid hitting someone else. The only group ride I've ever really enjoyed was in a parade. ;)

[roadfix]

For me, riding with a group takes all the fun out of it. I spend all my time trying to avoid hitting someone else.

You need to ride with people you know.....

[BluesDawg]

I never ride unless I'm by myself or with somebody.

[will dehne]

Yeah, well, you two are obviously weird. ;)

I kid, of course! Sounds perfectly lovely. If you can get along for weeks at a time on a tandem your marriage must be great.

I post this to give ideas to some who may try this:
I love biking and being outdoors. My wife likes being with me and being social. OK, so I make every effort to provide her with social interaction on these bike tours. For instance: The terminal point of one trip is a Historical Hotel in Trempealeau, Wi. We can always count on fun parties in that place. This includes good food, good wine, great Tiramisu and great company.

[lhbernhardt]

The paradox of group riding is that you need to ride with a group in order to learn to ride well, but then you want to avoid riding with a group because its constituents do not ride well...

I will tell you how I learned the craft of cycling. Back in 1971 or so, a sports car enthusiast mentor (who was also into good bikes, in fact owned a Schwinn Paramount) talked me into riding a bicycle. He thought "I'd like it." I went to Velo Sport in Berkeley, one of the legendary bike shops in North America (the other one in Northern Cal was Spence Wolf's Cupertino Bike Shop) and bought a $75 Centurion LeMans. It had bolt-on steel-rimmed wheels (I replaced the bolts with wing nuts - remember wing nuts?), cottered cranks, a high-tensile carbon steel frame, and shift levers located on the stem. I did get toe clips installed, though. I think my first piece of bicycle maintenance was replacing those dumb shifters with some downtube shifters.

I rode that bike from Oakland to Cal State Hayward, often going by way of Redwood Road thru the East Bay hills. Once I did the ride in the rain and nearly killed myself when the bike would not slow down on a wet descent no matter how hard I pulled on the brake levers, due to the steel rims. Little by little, I learned. But the biggest leap in learning occurred when I rode that cheap 10-speed clunker to UC Berkeley one Sunday morning in November to ride with the Berkeley Wheelmen. So here I was with this cheap heavy steel bike with steel rims. I did have a wool jersey and shorts, though. All the other guys had nice, light, shiny European bikes decked out with Campagnolo equipment and really light wheels with 390-gram Clement Campionato del Mundo tubulars, the preferred training tire at that time. But the reason I learned anything at all that day was because the ride leader, Noel Charonnat ("Shar-nay"), could easily see just how hopeless I was, and he made sure that I didn't get dropped. Well, I did my part to stay with the group on the flat, but when we hit the hills, there'd always be some guy who would drop back and shepherd me back into the group. And while we rode, he'd point out a few simple things. About how to sit, and how to pedal, and what equipment might be useful in case I flatted. And over the winter I picked up the etiquette of riding in a group by osmosis.

And now, almost forty years later, I can comfortably ride in the middle of a big group. I've been in situations on our 200-meter track where I've been bumped sideways (hard!), or bounced between two other riders, but I can still keep the bike upright. And I've been told that my wheel is one of the smoothest and easiest to follow, but all of that goes back to those early days in Berkeley where some kind individuals were careful to pass on the legacy of cycling to someone who was a little wet behind the ears.

So if you really want to learn the Craft of Cycling, ride with a group of the most competent cyclists you can find. They'll usually be older guys, and they'll be quick, but they won't be concerned with hammering because they won't feel like they have to prove anything. And that's how you distinguish the really good riders.

- L.

[DnvrFox]

I post this to give ideas to some who may try this:
I love biking and being outdoors. My wife likes being with me and being social. OK, so I make every effort to provide her with social interaction on these bike tours.

+1

When I ride with my wife, "social" rules. To her, an ideal ride is somewhere where we can ride and stop for coffee and "talk." Even better if there are some compatible couples or others who also like to "talk." Those are her priorities, and I honor them. And, it is a whole different aspect of bicycling, which is good for me.

[will dehne]

The paradox of group riding is that you need to ride with a group in order to learn to ride well, but then you want to avoid riding with a group because its constituents do not ride well...

I will tell you how I learned the craft of cycling.

So if you really want to learn the Craft of Cycling, ride with a group of the most competent cyclists you can find. They'll usually be older guys, and they'll be quick, but they won't be concerned with hammering because they won't feel like they have to prove anything. And that's how you distinguish the really good riders.

- L.

I found your post very enjoyable to read, and yes, I also benefited from group riding in Detroit Metroparks.

[NOS88]

I found your post very enjoyable to read....


+1 great story!

[centexwoody]

Wonderful post & it makes me want to learn how to ride in a group:

my experience these days is negotiating the Rhine River pathways north & south on both sides of the river around Bonn- 8 -12 miles in each direction. Actually through quiet stretches and then riding through/with walkers, joggers, rollerblades, slow/medium/ fast cyclists, unicycles, motorized wheelchairs - the entire gamut of NON-MOTORIZED human locomotion.

Fortunately the bike paths are marked (90% of the time) to distinguish them from pedestrian walks so rights-of-way for different modes of travel are established by social (& probably legal) standards.

To get back to this thread: the experience was really intimidating until I figured out how to just trail someone for a kilometer or two to see how I was supposed to ride through different sections. If the ADFC local riding chapters had a more convenient schedule aligned with my own, riding with them would have improved my riding style & negotiation of traffic much faster. When I get back to Texas, I'm going to sample the clubs riding in my hometown...

[backinthesaddle]

The paradox of group riding is that you need to ride with a group in order to learn to ride well, but then you want to avoid riding with a group because its constituents do not ride well...

I will tell you how I learned the craft of cycling. Back in 1971 or so, a sports car enthusiast mentor (who was also into good bikes, in fact owned a Schwinn Paramount) talked me into riding a bicycle. He thought "I'd like it." I went to Velo Sport in Berkeley, one of the legendary bike shops in North America ...

So if you really want to learn the Craft of Cycling, ride with a group of the most competent cyclists you can find. They'll usually be older guys, and they'll be quick, but they won't be concerned with hammering because they won't feel like they have to prove anything. And that's how you distinguish the really good riders.

- L.

great story, reminded me of my early cycling years, hanging out at VeloSport, riding the Berkeley Oakland hills. Never rode with Berkeley Wheelmen though, so I never developed all the smooth riding skills, group skills, and speed you described. Rode with Grizzly Peak Cyclists (actually rode back when they were called Grizzly Peak Pedal Pushers). But any constant riding in the hills will develop strength and endurance, as I've redisovered in the last year or so since I started riding again. Group rides will sometimes challenge you, sometimes slow you down. I always hope there's someone as patient as the guys you describe, and I hope that I can reach that pinnacle of patience myself when other cyclists may need my help and support.

[ScrubJ]

Tomorrow (Sunday the 17th) will be my third group ride. Love them! I was lucky enough to find a group of a broad range of ability, so there is always someone of my pace. I seem to end up mid pack most of the time.

We have several fast ride groups here, but I'm not up to their ability or equipment level yet.