Fifty Plus (50+) - B 17 to narrow

After over 600 miles and the dents in the saddle are showing pretty good the Brooks B17 is to narrow. Do you think I should try thr B 67 or try something else without springs.The B 17 is a nice saddle but to narrow for me. Thanks George

I would try something wider, and probably within the Brooks line. Still, my champion flyer is sprung, and I like it. If you don't have a suspension seat post, you might go the spring route, though not the flyer. It is just a B-17 with springs.

Hi George,

Can I ask what makes you think it's too narrow? What are the symptoms? I ask, because I used to think wider saddles were better too. Now, I find the narrower saddles are actually more comfortable for me.

Steve

Hi Steve,I'm just about on the rivets on the top and I'm on the frame on the bottom. O called the dealer and he said I could try a B 67 and is sending it. I just don't know if I want a sprung saddle or not.I kind of thought it was to narrow,but I wanted to wait until I had it broken in. I just sat in it today for my whole trip and when I got home I checked it out and that's how I made my mind up. The dealer agreed with me. George

I'm kind of in a bind now because I don't know which way to go.George

George,

Do you have an extra seatpost and a small backpack? If so you could mount the new seat on the post, adjust to the correct angle, back and forth, etc., and then take the B-17 mounted to the post in the backpack. Ride some distance out (10-15 miles?), swap seats, and then ride back. This way you are comparing both over the same road and the swap will take fewer tools and time. Let us know how it works out.

FWIW, I'm inclined to wonder if width is really the problem. You're right there, of course, and I won't argue if you think it is. But I'm a pretty big guy (6'4"/250), and the depressions where my sit bones hit my B-17s are in at least an inch and a quarter from the edge on each side. I could be a LOT wider than I am and still fit the thing, and not that many people are a lot wider than I am. If you haven't already spent the money, you might try adjusting the tilt of the saddle a millimeter or two at a time, up or down. I've found a tiny adjustment makes a big difference.

I'm going to get a Salsa seatpost so I can adjust tilt or fore & aft without affecting the other.

Hi George,
What ever happened to your wife's B67? You said you liked it a while ago. I love mine. For the style of bike you have, it would work well for weight distribution. You won't feel like you are rocking because the springs are very firm. I use an ordinary B17 on my Sequoia, but the posture is a little more aggressive that on my other bikes. Still, I think about a Champion Flyer occasionally...

Keep us informed.

My wife tried the B 67 womans and tried the mens as well and she didn't care for either. I was trying to make the B 17 work and I still may.I sent it back to were I bought it and told them to look at it and tell me what's going on.After riding the Brooks and then trying the Serfas I'd like the get mine back.After all is said and done if it does'nt work I'm going to ride my B 17 until the new unsprung B 68 comes out. Thanks George

George:
I send you a PM but just in case you did not get it, here it is:
You motivated me to make a test ride with my Brooks Proffessional saddle.
I never pay attention to it since this is not my focus but today I did it because of your reports.
I did 50 miles in pooring rain on this saddle. No stich was dry and the saddle was not dry either. I report to you no problems.
Next day:
Same saddle, was not raining. Saddle was fine, my A** did not hurt at all. I paid attention were I was sitting on the saddle. About 50% on Aerobars which means I sit flat, way back on the saddle, the other 50% sitting upright and 75% back from the nose of the saddle. In either case, no problem.
I was going for speed and my focus was to catch this other guy half my age. Perhaps that distracted me from saddle problems.
In my opinion, the Brooks Proffessional is a nice piece of work.

In my opinion, the Brooks Proffessional is a nice piece of work.

I agree with Will. He rides for speed and distance. I ride for exercise and relaxation (of the mind). My Brooks Professional is the best saddle I've ever sat upon. I bought mine on ebay. It was NOS, an '84, that looked as if it had never been used. I mounted it last winter and it replaced a Trico gel saddle (which even with its cutout was a numb-er). It took about 4 hours of riding on a trainer not to feel too hard, and about another 3-5 hours to feel really comfortable. But since May, when the bike came off the trainer and went back outdoors, the Professional has felt super. I never hurt, I never go numb, I never have complaints. I'm also a big guy at 6' 1", 245 lbs. Narrow doesn't bother me.

The Pro being 10mm narrower I thought I would be sitting on the Rivets. I know I'm missing something please explain. Thanks again George

The Pro being 10mm narrower I thought I would be sitting on the Rivets. I know I'm missing something please explain. Thanks again George

George:
I am now thinking that you have special issues which some of us not have. According to you, you are sitting much more upright for health reasons.
I also sit more upright than most performance bikers but probably not like you.
In the position I ride, my bones are clearly supported by the leather saddle and not on the rivets.
The feeling is as if I sit on a comfortable leather round bar. My legs are free to pedal due to the low friction of this saddle and also because it is narrower.
I often use the Aerobars. In that case I slide back on the saddle where the rivets are. That is not an issue because my weight is much supported on the elbows and less on the saddle.
I am trying to help you but feel you need someone to look what you are doing.
I suspect that your weight rests fully on the saddle as where as my weight is balanced between saddle and bars and legs on the pedals.
If all your weight is on the saddle, I do not know what to tell you.
Will

George:
I am trying to help you but feel you need someone to look what you are doing.

BINGO! Internet discussion boards are great ways to communicate, but there are times when nothing works like face to face. You could try sending some pictures, but if you could find a knowledgeable person to work with on this, you would probably have a lot better chance of making sense of the situation. I realize that may be a lot easier said than done. The woods are not crawling with Brooks experts.

BluesDawg wrote: "The woods are not crawling with Brooks experts."

Very true. The only experts I know of are right here in BF. It's the only place you'll find tons of 'em in one spot. Ditto on the pic. That would help. What is your normal riding position??? Upright or racing? Show us your rig. Maybe with you standing next to it for some idea of height reference.

BluesDawg: Please PM me about your 80's Something S-12-S. Got a line on one just for grins.

I sent the B 17 back to Wallingford and talked to them yesterday. They said that the saddle wasn't to wide I was sitting to far back.After hearing that I dug up most of the pictures on this forum and mine looked like a lot of others I saw. I think if I was to sit closer to the nose I'd be sitting on it. I'm really glad that it isn't to narrow because I like the saddle very much. When I get the saddle back I'll see if I can post some pictures. If it's just a matter of copy and paste. I never posted any pictures on A forum,please explain.The reason I thought the saddle was to narrow is the dents are starting to show and on the front 2 rivets I'm about 1/4 inch on either side from the rivets. I would think on the bottom I'd be on the frame. It is comfortable and I told them to send back the saddle and I wont worry about the fit.I've gone a little over 20 miles on it without stopping for a saddle break and I felt fine.I'm trying to take it somewhat easy so I don't get hurt and so far it's been working. I'm sorry to be such a pain in the saddle about this but I really like the sport and I really want it to work.When I get this Arthriris under control I'd like to start touring a little. George

George,

Posting pictures is simple but make certain to use "reply w/ quote" or "reply" and not "Quick Reply" which automatically is under the latest post.

After you have typed your message scroll down below the dialogue box and you will see a button marked "Manage Attachements." Click on that button. A separate window then pops up and you have two options. "Upload file from your computer" or "Upload file from a URL." I use the computer option and click on "Browse." Then find the file name for the picture in your computer, highlight and click "open" then click "upload."

A few tips: Know the name of the picture file, where it is located on your computer, and that it is under 100 kb in size (but not too small or people can't see the picture very well).

Good luck! :)

Thanks pastor,Ill try it when I get my saddle back.

I'm trying to post a picture

I tried about 5 times and it does'nt seem to work,thanks anyhow,George

Hi George,
I went nuts trying to post pics. Then, a gal by the handle of LollyPop told me to
1)go to TinyPic.com
2)click Browse
3)double-click your pic from My Pictures or wherever the Browse command lands you.
4)click Up Load
It will appear as a Link or an IMG (image).
5)Copy the Link or IMG (which posts an actual pic) by highlighting, then right click to select Copy
6)click Back til you are back in your Reply, then Paste.

Then add your text.
Me and old Trek after 70 miles last winter:
http://i10.tinypic.com/4fuwzup.jpg

George -
Is your seatpost a straight or setback seatpost? - I ride a B-17 and find that I need a setback seatpost to put the saddle as far back as I like.

Thanks guys,I'll try again with the picture. I took the measurement where I think I'll be pretty close to where I'm suppose to be and I have been reading about setback seatpost and after the measurement I should know if I need one. I did read that in some cases that the saddle didn't slid back as far as it should for some people.I sat on a stool against the wall and put a level against my knees too the wall and came up with 26".I don't know if that's longer than most people but at this time that's all I can go by.I was thinking that I cant slid it back to far or I'll be sitting on the nose of the saddle.George

http://i9.tinypic.com/34t98ub.jpg

I think it was John,thanks a lot,George

My wife tried the B 67 womans and tried the mens as well and she didn't care for either. I was trying to make the B 17 work and I still may.I sent it back to were I bought it and told them to look at it and tell me what's going on.After riding the Brooks and then trying the Serfas I'd like the get mine back.After all is said and done if it does'nt work I'm going to ride my B 17 until the new unsprung B 68 comes out. Thanks George

George, I presume you say it's too narrow because the indentations are close the sides of the saddle. Can you post a picture so we can see what you mean? Perhaps then someone will chime in with "Wow, that's gotta be wider than the B-17 is made for!" or "You have some other problem; my butt is at least that wide."

Just in the throes of saddle exploration; changed from Brooks Pro to Alias 130 to E3 Form to Alias 143... I think the Alias is the right width.

Ken Freeman

I hope to get my saddle back tomorrow and then I'll post some pictures, now that I know how.George

I sent the B 17 back to Wallingford and talked to them yesterday. They said that the saddle wasn't to wide I was sitting to far back.After hearing that I dug up most of the pictures on this forum and mine looked like a lot of others I saw. I think if I was to sit closer to the nose I'd be sitting on it. I'm really glad that it isn't to narrow because I like the saddle very much. When I get the saddle back I'll see if I can post some pictures. If it's just a matter of copy and paste. I never posted any pictures on A forum,please explain.The reason I thought the saddle was to narrow is the dents are starting to show and on the front 2 rivets I'm about 1/4 inch on either side from the rivets. I would think on the bottom I'd be on the frame. It is comfortable and I told them to send back the saddle and I wont worry about the fit.I've gone a little over 20 miles on it without stopping for a saddle break and I felt fine.I'm trying to take it somewhat easy so I don't get hurt and so far it's been working. I'm sorry to be such a pain in the saddle about this but I really like the sport and I really want it to work.When I get this Arthriris under control I'd like to start touring a little. George

I think you may need to try sliding your saddle farther back on the seatpost, if your butt seems to be trying to go there anyway.

I've found with my ongoing saddle oddyssey that I need to place the saddle where my butt wants to be for the way I want to ride and what is healthy for my body. I like to get my center of gravity close to above the BB. It reduces the weight on my hands. This results in needing to have my sit bones farther back than the Brooks design will allow, even with a setback seatpost. You can sit farther forward, but in my case I'll get excessive perineal pressure, and excess weight on my arms. I do use a setback seatpost, both the Campy 2-bolt and Thomson setbacks. I'm probably a candidate for a custom frame in the future.

My best solution so far has been to go to the Specialized Aliases, for which the widest part of the saddle is a few centimeters farther behind the rail center than for the Brooks designs. I miss the ease of position adjustment afforded by the smooth Brooks leather, however.

Ken

Hi George,
Glad to see you were able to post a pic. Here's what I see:
you have a bike that is similar to my Specialized Sequoia in geometry. These types are popular for guys our age because they are not for racing about the countryside like Lance-a-Likes. Still they are light and fast and fun. There is a pic of mine here that shows that the saddle, a B17, is about equal in height to the tops of the bars. That's where I ride most of the time. Conversely, your bars are WAY higher than the saddle. It lookls like you are trying to effect a comfort bike posture on a recreational roadster. Probably feels good on the wrists and hands but your backside obviously hates it. Too much weight and shock to the ischials, I'll bet.

I'll stick to my first instincts and re-recommend a sprung saddle. Or, lower those bars to re-distribute some weight.

http://i10.tinypic.com/4gqaely.jpg

George,
Several years ago, Jane and I had tried B-66s and B-72s and found them to be uncomfortable.

Recently, due her back problems and my bad shoulders, I've had to raise our bars to 4" above our saddles. This change of position made all the difference in the world. Now, despite having more weight on our butts, we don't have any saddle discomfort using B-66s and B-67s.

BTW They don't need too much break-in time. But to speed up the process, I slather Proofhide on the underside and melt it in with a heat gun. Probably not Plan A for a saddle you plan to get 30,000 miles out of. But we both have several bikes and don't put enough miles on any one of them to give the saddle a "Proper" break in. The downside of having a lot of bikes, is paying for so many Brooks saddles.

George,
Several years ago, Jane and I had tried B-66s and B-72s and found them to be uncomfortable.

Recently, due her back problems and my bad shoulders, I've had to raise our bars to 4" above our saddles. This change of position made all the difference in the world. Now, despite having more weight on our butts, we don't have any saddle discomfort using B-66s and B-67s.

BTW They don't need too much break-in time. But to speed up the process, I slather Proofhide on the underside and melt it in with a heat gun. Probably not Plan A for a saddle you plan to get 30,000 miles out of. But we both have several bikes and don't put enough miles on any one of them to give the saddle a "Proper" break in. The downside of having a lot of bikes, is paying for so many Brooks saddles.

Well said and true.

Proofide will soften the leather if you use alot of it. The heat will get it in there. I use the oven set on low to heat the saddle to just barely 'hot.' Then, it's a heavy application of SnoSeal (underneath only). This is very different from Proofhide in that it does not soften the leather. It's just beeswax and waterproofs the saddle. Proofide has the wax and other ingredients that tend to condition the hide. It's all good.

http://i9.tinypic.com/2zgc9vp.jpg My seatbones marks

http://i9.tinypic.com/433bc0m.jpg

http://i9.tinypic.com/4cbq8ew.jpg

I put some oil on the one picture so you can see where my sitbones are.I have a setback seatpost as well. If I knew how to make these big pictures into thumb nails I would have done that.Oh well,thanks George

nice bike

after reading this thread, it seems odd that so many would recommend a saddle that is not comfortable and trying to figure out ways to make it work...the first thing that i did with our Treks was to swap the seats...my wife's 7300 has a Selle Italia Grand Am XO, my 7.5fx has a WTB Rocket V, my 730 has an old Giant MTB seat that I found in a parts basket at my lbs, and my daughter's 7500fx has a WTB Speed She Race

just a long way of saying that I always follow my surgeon cousin's advice...if it doesn't work, cut it out

BTW...Brooks saddles have always been recommended as the best seats for women up here...they're not as long as standard saddles, and a little narrower that apparently works better for the female tush

My wife used my old Brooks BN9 and an old Wrights leather saddles, but they now are in a shadow box on my daughter's wall.

after reading this thread, it seems odd that so many would recommend a saddle that is not comfortable and trying to figure out ways to make it work.Not comfortable? The ingredients of a fine meal only become tasty after someone has invested time and effort into making it so. Those who want the ultimate in comfort know that it takes time and effort to mold a leather saddle to their individual anatomy. Just like breaking in a good pair of leather shoes. If you start with the wrong ingredients for the meal, or the wrong saddle for your bottom, the result will be less than satisfactory.

Those who need instant gratification can eat at McDonald's and buy padded saddles.

Does it tell you anything that the more experience a rider has, the more likely they are to ride a Brooks?

Jane and I have been riding together for almost 40 years and have tried several dozen saddles, hoping to find something that would be comfortable all day long. In this past year, we've both come to the same conclusion;

A padded saddle feels good when you first get on it, but that's the best it's going to feel all day. When we get on our Brooks' they feel hard for the 1st minute or two, but that's the worst they're going to feel all day.

This may not apply to other models, but at least if the bars are "old fart high", it does apply to the B66/67.

Thanks to our new Brooks', this is the 1st year in two decades we've ridden our upright bikes more than our recumbents.

nice bike

after reading this thread, it seems odd that so many would recommend a saddle that is not comfortable and trying to figure out ways to make it work...the first thing that i did with our Treks was to swap the seats...my wife's 7300 has a Selle Italia Grand Am XO, my 7.5fx has a WTB Rocket V, my 730 has an old Giant MTB seat that I found in a parts basket at my lbs, and my daughter's 7500fx has a WTB Speed She Race

just a long way of saying that I always follow my surgeon cousin's advice...if it doesn't work, cut it out

BTW...Brooks saddles have always been recommended as the best seats for women up here...they're not as long as standard saddles, and a little narrower that apparently works better for the female tush

My wife used my old Brooks BN9 and an old Wrights leather saddles, but they now are in a shadow box on my daughter's wall.

If I were George I'd appreciate people suggesting ways to address my problem without saying I should spend another ~$100 plus or minus to try another unknown saddle. As a responder I can suggest a Selle Italia or a Specialized Alias, but any different saddle still requires some exploratory adjustment to find its best spot for you on that bike.

BTW BTW: I could not get my wife to stay on a Brooks Team Pro S for more than 30 seconds in the living room - that saddle for that girl did not even get a road test.

Ken
Ken

I was curious about the B17 and bought one for my touring bike. It took approximately 300 miles to break it in. It wasn't uncomfortable to begin with and it didn't improve a great deal but as my friend Phil said, "It's less uncomfortable than other saddles."

I guess I shouldn't worry about it either.They said I'm sitting to far back on it.I thought it was to narrow.I can say one thing it's the most comfortable I had out of five.George

I guess I shouldn't worry about it either.They said I'm sitting to far back on it.I thought it was to narrow.I can say one thing it's the most comfortable I had out of five.George

You might still end up thinking it's too narrow, but I think you should get it moved back about 1/4 to 1/2 inch before you really decide. Your sit bones are too close to teh saddle rail, according to Wallingfords, tight? There are two ways to look at the cause of this:

1. either you are sitting to far back for the saddle, or

2. the saddle cannot be moved far enough back to accommodate your old butt (and knees!).

The first interpretation says that you are sitting somehow "wrong," and that you are capable of changing how you sit. I don't believe we should accept such explanations, because guess, what, I'm in charge of the bike, not the other way around. I also think our bodies tend to adopt positions that suit them well, and that we should adjust our bikes to match our bodies.

My personal choice would be to move the saddle back to accommodate my body and cater to what it thinks it needs to do. I have done this on several bikes, and the result has been that several saddles I hated have become very usable. I hope you'll try this, because I think it might help. If it doesn't, just reverse the change!

Best regards and good luck,

Ken (again)

Hi Ken,thanks for the help,but I have a setback seatpost and I have the saddle back as far as it will go. I talked to the people at Wallingford where I bought the saddle and they said to try the B 67.I asked what would be the difference if I cant slid this one back far enough. The B 67 would be the same setback and they said it would push me forward. The only problem I have with that is my knee wont be over the pedal the way it's suppose to be.I just thought about riding it the way it is. They said I would probably break the frame. I can't believe I'm the only person out of all the people that have the B 17 and can't use it.I took a measurement from the handlebars to my sitbones and it is 29"and my thigh is 26" from the front of my knees to the wall. I wish some of you guys would take that measurement and tell me what you come up with. Thanks again George

I took a measurement from the handlebars to my sitbones and it is 29"and my thigh is 26" from the front of my knees to the wall. I wish some of you guys would take that measurement and tell me what you come up with. Thanks again George

Hard to believe but my measurements are:
29" from straight bars to center of sit-bones.
26" from the front of my knees to the wall I lean against.

The difference between us is my height of bars to saddle. I am about even on one bike and a few inches below on the road bike.
My height is 184 cm bare footed.
Inseam is 87 cm.
I am riding four bikes at this moment. Size 60, size 58, size 52, size 54 Tandem.
Of these, the 58 is the right one and fits perfect.

Guess what Will,my inseam is the same as yours and I'm 2.54 cm taller.If they are telling me I'm sitting to far back in the saddle I guess they are going to get a saddle back with a broken frame. George

PS. I know your going to like that new bike Will,take care and thanks again.

George,
Have you tried playing with the tilt of the saddle? Now that my bars are higher, I find that having the nose tilted up about 8-10 degrees causes me to sit further back on the saddle, without undue pressure on my squishy bits. YMMV as I'm on B-66/67s not B-17s

I had it tilted up when I first got it so I wouldn't slip over the nose,but now I have it level and it feels pretty good.I just thought I was to close to the rivets and that's how we ended up with this thread.I'm just going to live with it because I don't want to play around with all kinds of different saddles.George