getting even!?

[danimal]

okay, i don't know what's going on lately, but in the last 10 days i've been involved in a hit and run (the car slowed down, entered the bike lane, and clipped me), some teenagers shot me with a pellet gun while i was running errands, and yesterday some tourist *****hole chased me through my neighborhood because i flipped him off (after he nearly hit me while using a turning lane to pass other drivers).

granted, i was asking for it when i flipped that guy off, but seriously, where does it end? i'm so tired of feeling (and being) threatened while riding. and i'm talking ALL kinds of riding; the hit and run was a spandex-training ride and the other incidents were commuting...but in what universe is this acceptable behavior!? -scratch that, we all know it's not acceptable, but what drives me nuts is that (for drivers) harassing cyclists is a consequence-free activity. i can't speak for outside of the states, but i've ridden in numerous cities/states in the US and have an accompanying harassment story for each place.

i'm sorry to rant, but i know i'm not alone on this. what is the solution? is more advocacy the answer? is law enforcement the answer? is a nightly critical mass necessary? should cyclists start carring guns(i'm kidding)?

i feel lucky that i haven't been killed (like too many other cyclists have) by irresponsible motorists, but where does it end? what strikes me as the worst part is the general consensus by non-cyclists that when a cyclist is harassed/injured/killed that it's somehow an accepted part of riding a bike. as if, we as cyclists are at fault for being on the road!??

look, i'm not an idiot, i have a masters in urban planning and have been grappling with this issue for a long time and can't figure out a solution to what feels like a war against cyclists by (most) motorists.

where does it end?

[recursive]

Just slash the tires of all the cars you see. Eventually they'll get the point.

[CrosseyedCrickt]

where does it end?
When the *******s of the motorist community are dead.

[mwrobe1]

When the *******s of the motorist community are dead.
Um...OK.

[fordfasterr]

It will never end.

Motorists feel entitled to the road and thats it.

[Adiankur]

Some of the trails I ride are perilously close to Klan territory. Thankfully, most of them dont seem to interested in riding bicycles, but road cycling could get a bit dicey.

[dobber]

It ends when you stop letting it bother you. At that point it just become part of life.

Reflect on how many motorists you don't have run ins with. How about that one that paused and waited for you to pass. Or the stream of them that went by giving you plenty of room.

[genec]

okay, i don't know what's going on lately, but in the last 10 days i've been involved in a hit and run (the car slowed down, entered the bike lane, and clipped me), some teenagers shot me with a pellet gun while i was running errands, and yesterday some tourist *****hole chased me through my neighborhood because i flipped him off (after he nearly hit me while using a turning lane to pass other drivers).

granted, i was asking for it when i flipped that guy off, but seriously, where does it end? i'm so tired of feeling (and being) threatened while riding. and i'm talking ALL kinds of riding; the hit and run was a spandex-training ride and the other incidents were commuting...but in what universe is this acceptable behavior!? -scratch that, we all know it's not acceptable, but what drives me nuts is that (for drivers) harassing cyclists is a consequence-free activity. i can't speak for outside of the states, but i've ridden in numerous cities/states in the US and have an accompanying harassment story for each place.

i'm sorry to rant, but i know i'm not alone on this. what is the solution? is more advocacy the answer? is law enforcement the answer? is a nightly critical mass necessary? should cyclists start carring guns(i'm kidding)?

i feel lucky that i haven't been killed (like too many other cyclists have) by irresponsible motorists, but where does it end? what strikes me as the worst part is the general consensus by non-cyclists that when a cyclist is harassed/injured/killed that it's somehow an accepted part of riding a bike. as if, we as cyclists are at fault for being on the road!??

look, i'm not an idiot, i have a masters in urban planning and have been grappling with this issue for a long time and can't figure out a solution to what feels like a war against cyclists by (most) motorists.

where does it end?


I don't have an answer for you... similar situations have also put me off biking for short breaks over the last 30 years.

There is no magic formula... however I would think that greater penalities to those that harass, a 3 foot rule and PSAs might help.

[genec]

It ends when you stop letting it bother you. At that point it just become part of life.


Let me know when being hit by cans and bottles no longer bothers you.

[tomcryar]

Hostility won't solve a hostile situation. I wish I had even one answer for it, but unfortunately, I tend to agree with fordfasterr--it may never end.

[dobber]

Let me know when being hit by cans and bottles no longer bothers you.

I'm not going to let it destroy my life. Pure, plain, simple.

[genec]

I'm not going to let it destroy my life. Pure, plain, simple.

Neither am I... but it does put me off cycling a bit when I am used as a human target.

As far as "destroying your life..." one well placed full beer can can indeed do that.

So the bottom line is why do these motoring aholes think that it is OK to do this?

[sbhikes]

If it makes you feel any better they are at war with each other, too.

[N_C]

Some of the trails I ride are perilously close to Klan territory. Thankfully, most of them dont seem to interested in riding bicycles, but road cycling could get a bit dicey.

Are you of an ethnic background that could cause the klan members to notice & take action against you because of your ethnicity? If not you probably have nothing to worry about.

[TeflonJohn]

Let me know when being hit by cans and bottles no longer bothers you.

Where in San Diego are you riding at to get hit with cans and bottles?

[ItsJustMe]

Are you of an ethnic background that could cause the klan members to notice & take action against you because of your ethnicity? If not you probably have nothing to worry about.

Not true, if you're riding a bike, especially wearing spandex, you must be a ******. They'll wanna kill you for that.

(note the above is not my opinion, but is the opinion I'd be concerned about).

[ItsJustMe]

Let me know when being hit by cans and bottles no longer bothers you.

If I got hit by thrown objects more than once, I'd spend a few hundred bucks for a really decent video system with a multiplexer and multiple cameras (one forwards, one 45* back); probably about $400, and I'd do all I could to make sure they got prosecuted. If the law isn't interested, there's civil court, especially if there's physical damage. Possibly just publicity would be enough. If that doesn't work, sometimes stuff happens to vehicles when left alone at night or in parking lots. Nah, not really, but I doubt it would get that far.

[N_C]

Not true, if you're riding a bike, especially wearing spandex, you must be a ******. They'll wanna kill you for that.

(note the above is not my opinion, but is the opinion I'd be concerned about).

Now that's just stupid. Hating someone because it is thought they are gay because they wear spandex.

[itsIRIEpat]

Just slash the tires of all the cars you see. Eventually they'll get the point.
I don't slash tires, I just remove Valve from the tire. . .


Also if you are going to flip the bird to anybody, you must always assume that the individual who the bird is intended for will chase you and get out of the car to fight. You must always BE DOWN TO THROW DOWN!!!

[danimal]

....and then your cameras get eaten by asphalt along with your kit, helmet, armwarmers, gloves, bartape, and skin.

[gpsblake]

I've been harassed but it is a rare thing for me & I live in redneck terrority. I think it depends part on the area where you live, the attitude of the motorist AND IMPORTANT, the attitude and habits of OTHER BICYCLISTS. I obey all the traffic laws. I also don't flip off cars or anyone else. Flipping them off rewards the driver for harassing you or it will increase the harassment, especially for the next driver.

While there is no excuse to be harassed by a car while riding a bike, remember it may have been cycling a-hole before you breaking the law that leads up to you being harassed. That's one of the reasons why unlike so many others in here, favor much stronger police enforcement of traffic laws with bicyclist.

[CliftonGK1]

Now that's just stupid. Hating someone because it is thought they are gay because they wear spandex.
Yeah, but I actually had someone level a shotgun at me and tell me to "turn your f@ggotty ***** back where you come from" when I was out riding on some rural roads back in Athens, Ohio. It's stupid, but it happens.

[Falkon]

If I got hit by thrown objects more than once, I'd spend a few hundred bucks for a really decent video system with a multiplexer and multiple cameras (one forwards, one 45* back); probably about $400, and I'd do all I could to make sure they got prosecuted. If the law isn't interested, there's civil court, especially if there's physical damage. Possibly just publicity would be enough. If that doesn't work, sometimes stuff happens to vehicles when left alone at night or in parking lots. Nah, not really, but I doubt it would get that far.

Or you could spend that money on a Glock 17 and stop the chaser dead. In this state, being chased by a motorist is grounds for use of deadly force. I have never had such an encounter myself, so I have not had any reason to carry.

[digger]

When the *******s of the motorist community are dead.

In the immortal words of Josef V Stalin:
"Death solves all problems, no man, no problem"

Think about the ones that wave, give you room when passing, wait for your turn at a 4-way, tap the horn waaayyyy back to let you know they are there, etc.

If you look for aholes...you'll find 'em.

Digger

[bbonnn]

Now that's just stupid. Hating someone because it is thought they are gay because they wear spandex.

Yes, as opposed to the not-stupid reason for hating someone based on their skin color, religion, or actual sexual orientation.

:)

I'm just ribbing ya. Sorry.

[genec]

Where in San Diego are you riding at to get hit with cans and bottles?

Friars road, Genesee, Clairmont Mesa blvd. The last incident was about 6 years ago on Genesee... full can of beer tossed at me which hit the curb just in front of me and sprayed everywhere. The other events involved cups of ice and liquid. I was only hit once... on Friars road. Generally the throwers have pretty poor aim.

But lest you think I am the only target. Some five years ago a woman was butt slapped by some motorists while she ascended Torrey Pines grade.

But it's not just bikes... anyone following the news in the area will recall the rocks thrown at cars in and around La Jolla.

Needless to say, there are idiots out there.

[UCSDbikeAnarchy]

I had a bottle hit the ground right in front of me on Santa fe ave (parellel the 5 north fo garnet) the bottle came from someone the the freeway, so I can't be totaly sure they were aiming at me. I've been yelled at plenty.

the other day I kicked the back of a truck that was holding up the whole Garnet-balboa-mission bay drive intersection. Probably didn't help the image of bikers much, but she was already being honked at by some of the 100 cars she was holding up. It made it dangerous for me since i have to serve far out into the other lane to get throuhg the intersection (one of the worst in SD).

It's worth noting that drivers are totaly incosiderate to other drivers too, its just the other drivers have a nice little cage around themselves.

[alanfleisig]

I think the problem is with non-enforcement of motor vehicle laws. Enforcement is only conducted where it provides revenue, and not with regard to safety.

The answer is to improve enforcement of traffic laws. Because in lieu of that, you can scream, "I have the right to this lane" on your bike all you want, and no one is going to care.

The other important element is this mystical notion of the "accident." 99.9% of "accidents," car-car, car-bike, car-pedestrian, bike-pedestrian, are no accidents at all. Somebody did something stupid or dangerous, or wasn't paying attention, ignored the rules or the road.

I like driving, and prefer driving at what I consider to be a safe speed, rather than the speed limit. But the "traffic flow" speed on 55 mph roads around here is about 70. Friends won't let their kids play or ride their bikes in the most expensive suburbs, because the traffic flow in their 25 or 30 mph zones is in the 45-50 mph range. And suddenly, and most dangerously (think Ben Rothlisberger (sp?) on his motorcycle, left turning vehicles no longer yield right of way. Every day after work, I have to walk across an intersection of two six-lane roads (34th Street and 10th Avenue, NYC). Left turners fly across, at or anticipating the green, haven't a care that pedestrians may be crossing, only that they have to accelerate fast enough to clear three lanes of traffic before the oncoming traffic. Yesterday, a guy in a Jeep Cherokee did this right in front of FOUR traffic cops. When I asked them if they were going to ticket him, they gave me that silent cop, I guess you're crazy so I'm just not going to answer you look.

Enforce traffic laws. Find a new, more appropriate term for "accident." That's my 2 cents worth.

[N_C]

Yes, as opposed to the not-stupid reason for hating someone based on their skin color, religion, or actual sexual orientation.

:)

I'm just ribbing ya. Sorry.

No, prob. I know you're just ribbing, but hating someone based on ethnicity, religion is also stupid. It is ok to not like things people do, but hating them because of their sexual orientation, ethnicity or religion, ie because of who they are is foolish.

A good example is I do not like cigarette smoking. My father smokes, I love him & respect him, but do not like his decision to smoke because of the health problems it causes. He knows that but he won't quite, I may not like it but it is his choice, but I still love & respect him, he is my dad after all. But I do not hate smokers in general, just the decision they make to possibly ruin their health as a result of a bad habit.

[Paul Graham]

Now that's just stupid. Hating someone because it is thought they are gay because they wear spandex.
Um...of course it's stupid. We're talking about the Klan; they don't have any beliefs that aren't stupid.

[CrimsonKarter21]

Why don't you do what they do? Ride on a fairly busy main road with no hands, one hand shaving, one hand on your coffee mug and a newspaper somewhere. Ride in the middle of the lane (must be a 2 lane road to work), and weave.
Make sure to wear a shirt saying something like "If you can do it, so can I", or else the cagers won't get it.

[trackhub]

So many people say "well, just take the high road, and don't let it bother you". That is a lot easier said than done, especially when you have been struck with eggs thrown from a passing car, or had beer bottles, fast food remnants, or a cup of coffee tossed at you. I was hit by eggs on one occasion, and have had beer bottles tossed at me twice. (Both missed)

Yeah, Americans feel entitled to the road, (Americans vote with their right foot) and a lot of other stuff besides. You could go round and round with this, but I really think there is something in American culture that breeds bullies.

As I 've mentioned in other threads, I know some riders who have given up road riding altogether, and ride only off-road, or off-road and stationary bikes at the local gym. One fellow told me that he tried to ignore it (harassment from motorists) but that you can only ignore it up to a point. Then you have to make a decision.

[Bikepacker67]

some tourist *****hole chased me through my neighborhood because i flipped him off

Pull over into the grass, and challenge the azzhole to get out.

[SingingSabre]

So many people say "well, just take the high road, and don't let it bother you". That is a lot easier said than done, especially when you have been struck with eggs thrown from a passing car, or had beer bottles, fast food remnants, or a cup of coffee tossed at you. I was hit by eggs on one occasion, and have had beer bottles tossed at me twice. (Both missed)

Yeah, Americans feel entitled to the road, (Americans vote with their right foot) and a lot of other stuff besides. You could go round and round with this, but I really think there is something in American culture that breeds bullies.

As I 've mentioned in other threads, I know some riders who have given up road riding altogether, and ride only off-road, or off-road and stationary bikes at the local gym. One fellow told me that he tried to ignore it (harassment from motorists) but that you can only ignore it up to a point. Then you have to make a decision.

I've had plenty of threats because of my upbringing as a Jew or my heritage as a Mexican that anything someone wants to shout to me as a cyclist is just silly and trite.

I've not had anybody throw anything at me, yet, but I'm not worried about that as it doesn't seem to happen terribly much.

[0_emissions :=)]

Not true, if you're riding a bike, especially wearing spandex, you must be a ******. They'll wanna kill you for that.

(note the above is not my opinion, but is the opinion I'd be concerned about).
+1 on that. I've seen people in full spandex yelled at and I have personally been called ****** for way less than that. You're lucky it's only verbal and not actual violence. When big bubba with the belt buckle and the ropers gets out and wants to bounce your skull off the pavement, you've got yourself a real problem...:(

[FXjohn]

Don't wear spandex for awhile and see what happens

[maximan1]

When the ahole comes out to fight spray pepper spray in his eyes and then slam his car door on his head as hard as you can :)I've had dreams like that

[ken cummings]

Aside from some Haydukian act of revenge I wonder if some insurance agent could tell us if insurance companies are interested in reports about hostile/dangerous drivers? Do agents need a formal police report before wanting to know one of their insured is going to get sued sooner than later?

[Az B]

I think the problem is with non-enforcement of motor vehicle laws. Enforcement is only conducted where it provides revenue, and not with regard to safety.



+1 to the whole frickin' message. I couldn't have said it better.

I would also add that driver and rider education couldn't hurt either. There are so many people that don't know the laws of the road, including cops and cyclists.

Az

[scottmorrison99]

Now that's just stupid. Hating someone because it is thought they are gay because they wear spandex.
Stupid is a fitting description for a Klansman.

[scottmorrison99]

I have heard rumors of drivers in the SF bay area getting anonomously reported to the Bay Area Air Quality Manangement District for clouds of smoke coming from their cars shortly after harassing a cyclist. Then they have to go get a new emissions test. Costs them time, money, and is irritating. It is using their car against them. Of course, I would never do this, but I think it is probably more than an urban legend.

EDIT: This action would be illegal,do not do it.

[ItsJustMe]

A good example is I do not like cigarette smoking. My father smokes, I love him & respect him, but do not like his decision to smoke because of the health problems it causes. He knows that but he won't quite, I may not like it but it is his choice, but I still love & respect him, he is my dad after all. But I do not hate smokers in general, just the decision they make to possibly ruin their health as a result of a bad habit.

My dad smoked all his life as well. I personally believe to this day that he was one of the finest people who ever lived. But at the same time, I realized when I was about 8 years old that one day he would die from smoking and it wasn't going to be pretty. And he did, when I was in my 30s. It was a very ugly, long, painful and humiliating death.

I decided at an early age that I would never get personally involved (romantically, that is) with anyone who smokes. Not because I hate them, but because I wasn't going to go through watching someone die like that twice.

[flipped4bikes]

I think the problem is with non-enforcement of motor vehicle laws. Enforcement is only conducted where it provides revenue, and not with regard to safety.

The answer is to improve enforcement of traffic laws. Because in lieu of that, you can scream, "I have the right to this lane" on your bike all you want, and no one is going to care.

The other important element is this mystical notion of the "accident." 99.9% of "accidents," car-car, car-bike, car-pedestrian, bike-pedestrian, are no accidents at all. Somebody did something stupid or dangerous, or wasn't paying attention, ignored the rules or the road.

I like driving, and prefer driving at what I consider to be a safe speed, rather than the speed limit. But the "traffic flow" speed on 55 mph roads around here is about 70. Friends won't let their kids play or ride their bikes in the most expensive suburbs, because the traffic flow in their 25 or 30 mph zones is in the 45-50 mph range. And suddenly, and most dangerously (think Ben Rothlisberger (sp?) on his motorcycle, left turning vehicles no longer yield right of way. Every day after work, I have to walk across an intersection of two six-lane roads (34th Street and 10th Avenue, NYC). Left turners fly across, at or anticipating the green, haven't a care that pedestrians may be crossing, only that they have to accelerate fast enough to clear three lanes of traffic before the oncoming traffic. Yesterday, a guy in a Jeep Cherokee did this right in front of FOUR traffic cops. When I asked them if they were going to ticket him, they gave me that silent cop, I guess you're crazy so I'm just not going to answer you look.

Enforce traffic laws. Find a new, more appropriate term for "accident." That's my 2 cents worth.

AMEN, brother...

[R-Wells]

I have been involved in two hit and run accidents, both times my car was hit while parked in the Wal-Mart parking lot.
I have had the windows in my home shot out by teenagers with pellet guns.
My best friend shot me with a pellet gun when I was riding a bicycle when I was a teenager. He was also riding a bicycle at the time!
I tend to follow any one who flips me the bird. Isn’t that why they flipped me the bird?
I have had a can of green beans thrown at me in the grocery store by an 80 year old women.

I just don’t understand how being involved in a hit and run, or being shot at by teenagers with pellet guns or being chased by someone you offered a direct challenge, or having things thrown at you, has anything to do with “harassing cyclists”?

To me this is just people being people, lets face it, people aint very smart!

[0_emissions :=)]

+1 to the whole frickin' message. I couldn't have said it better.

I would also add that driver and rider education couldn't hurt either. There are so many people that don't know the laws of the road, including cops and cyclists.

Az
I would be in favour of 5 year re-tests until the age of 80. Why not? Oh right, it costs money, and the government isn't interested in the public's safety. I mean, the 40,000 deaths a year are nothing, right?

[ItsJustMe]

Enforce traffic laws. Find a new, more appropriate term for "accident." That's my 2 cents worth.

I agree completely.

FWIW, there are police departments who no longer use the term "accident" because actual accidents hardly ever happen. I don't remember what they call them, but I call them "incidents".

[genec]

To me this is just people being people, lets face it, people aint very smart!

Reminds me of the line from "Men in Black:" "A person is smart. People are dumb, panicky, dangerous animals and you know it."

[tbdean]

I had a bottle hit the ground right in front of me on Santa fe ave

I've had a beer bottle thrown at me at El Camino College in Torrance, I stopped and the men ran towards me. Also a basketball thrown into my front tire on Studebaker in Long Beach. In Rialto I had someone pull up behind me, at night, and follow me at 15 MPH. They followed me for a few turns until I pulled up next to a fire truck.

Since moving to Georgia I haven't had any problems. :) Of course, the first three incidents happened over 15 years, so far I've only given Georgia 8 months.

[danimal]

I just don’t understand how being involved in a hit and run, or being shot at by teenagers with pellet guns or being chased by someone you offered a direct challenge, or having things thrown at you, has anything to do with “harassing cyclists”?

To me this is just people being people, lets face it, people aint very smart!

-people sure as $hit ain't very smart, but i think what i'm getting at here is that as a cyclist i/we are much easier targets for this kind of crap because there is a (often times correct) perception that it's extremely unlikely that a motorist will face any repercussions.

[DCCommuter]

When the ahole comes out to fight spray pepper spray in his eyes and then slam his car door on his head as hard as you can :)I've had dreams like that
I bet we could do a whole thread on revenge fantasies!


Movies aren't stupid. They fill us with romance and hatred and revenge fantasies.