Gore vs. Pearl Izumi Outerwear

[SemperFi]

I've been surfing the web for awhile now trying to decide on a cycling jacket for winter riding in the Northeast...Brooklyn NY to be exact. I've also searched the numerous threads on the Forum to see what others have had to say and, I must admit, I'm more confused than ever. Every company has a different name for fabrics that block wind and rain, vent, breathe, etc.

The jackets I like the most are those from Gore and Pearl...especially those that convert to a vest since some winter days can be quite mild and removeable sleeves and pit vents seem like a good option to have. I don't plan on riding in the rain, although you can always get caught I guess, so how a jacket performs in the rain really doesn't concern me. Wind protection is important since the Northeast can get blustery at times. And then, of course, there's the breatheability factor. Like I said...all very confusing, at least to me.

I really would like to see and try on something before I buy it but the LBS's in my area don't have such a great selection and I don't want to get into the buy, return, buy, return cycle until I find something I like.

If any BF members out there ride under similar winter conditions and have a Gore or Pearl Izumi (or other) jacket that they just can't do without, I would be interested in your experiences and recommendations.

[CastIron]

I've got a PI kacket/vest that isn't worth half what I paid for it. I generally like their products, but not this one.

The Novarra rain jacket I picked up at REI for half price has turned out to be a great piece of kit.

[Jarery]

Check Ibexwear jackets for warm softshells.
Or try the other softshells made with a good non membrane material. Just google softshell and 3xdry, that will show you jackets that will breath the most and still shed the most water without being waterproof.

If you want truely waterproof, get an event material jacket (2x the breathability of the best gore) like showerspass elite. But they have no insulating value, so you still need to layer up underneath.

PI is overpriced, so is gore. Gore isnt even as breathable as they claim. if you want waterproof, get the most breathable (event), if you want almost waterproof and most breathable, get dryskin extreme material.

[tankman10024]

hey
since you live in the NYC area check out paragon sports in 18th and Broadway i was just there last weekend and they have a big selection and of course you can try them on too. Their prices are also about the same as online catalogs too

[superslomo]

I got a pretty good deal on a PI Barrier jacket, which is breathable on the back, wind/water resistant on the front.

I'll post results once it gets cold enough to require it...

[SemperFi]

Thanks, I cancelled my order because the jacket wasn't in stock in the color I wanted...and still isn't.
I've been looking at other things from NorthFace, LL Bean and Marmot too and just can't pull the trigger on anything. Been thinking of a fleece vest with a softshell wind jacket as an outer layer but don't know if this is practical.
I'll be interested in your review of the Barrier jacket.

[Portis]

Spend your money on things that protect the extremities. They are the hardest to keep warm. Combos for the torso are relatively easy and inexpensive to come by.

[SemperFi]

Is a wind resistent softshell over a 300 weight fleece vest a good layering principle?

[Jarery]

If its one of the softshells with a plastic membrane like gore windstopper, over a layer of fleece. I think you'll sweat to death. Powershield, winstopper, etc are all bonded to plastic membranes and dont breath well enough for highly aerobic activities. Awesome for running from your car to the mall entrance, but not cycling.

If its a think/lightweight softshell made of bicomponent weave like dryskin, then you'll do good. Although i find fleece to warm, and too soggy when wet. Your better with 2 thin layers than a thick fleece.

Base - skintight super thin and high wicking ability (capalene, powerdry)
Thermal mid layer - This is the layer to keep you warm, and also must wick away any sweat on the base layer (wool, winter jersey)
Shell - A thin shell that has as high a breathability as possible with no plastic membrane. (dryskin) like Marmot ATV or Cloudveil rayzar

Edit : a lot of people like the PI barrier, for cycling specific it gets high reviews

[vrkelley]

Thanks, I cancelled my order because the jacket wasn't in stock in the color I wanted...and still isn't.
I've been looking at other things from NorthFace, LL Bean and Marmot too and just can't pull the trigger on anything. Been thinking of a fleece vest with a softshell wind jacket as an outer layer but don't know if this is practical.
I'll be interested in your review of the Barrier jacket.


Semp,
The best kind of jacket would depend on on your riding conditions. What's the average temp, speed, length of commute, wind condtions etc.

[Portis]

300 weight fleece is pretty heavy. The heavier the fleece, the more breathable the shell needs to be and vice versa. Also know that the term "breathable" is a bit misleading. No jackets actually breathe, and few of the fabrics actually let enough air through to compensate when your torso becomes VERY hot.

The key is zippers. They are the thermostats of the jacket. You can fully unzip just about any jacket at 0F,and ride briskly, and you will cool quickly. Look for a jacket with pit zips, a nice front zipper and also a back vent.

What you wear underneath it will vary based on conditions and your preferance.. You will just have to experiment. Again, remember that the torso is pretty easy to make comfortable.

[rainman99]

Semp,
The best kind of jacket would depend on on your riding conditions. What's the average temp, speed, length of commute, wind condtions etc.


I have actually been wrestling with just this same analysis (Pearl Barrier v. windstopper). Many people here believe that the windstopper does not breath enough. Like Semper Fi, I am having a hard time sorting this out. My commute is 7 miles and I plan to do it when it is 25-40 F. Using a "breathable" rain jacket from REI (Stratos) left me a little clammy. I some protection from rain, but mostly I need to be able to stay warm for 45 mins on the way home. I am looking at non laminate softshells and possibly just using a nylon windbreaker over baselayer + fleece. Any additional thoughts would be welcome.

Thanks.

[Portis]

I have Powershield and Goretex fabrics. Goretex in my jacket and powershield in my tights. The goretex doesn't "breathe" hardly at all while the powershield breathes well. Still both can be useful and I use both in extreme cold.

[chipcom]

J&G Wind Jacket is my favorite year-round jacket. With a polypro base layer and a merino wool mid layer underneath, I'm good down into the teens (F). It has good pit zips for ventilation and it is fairly water resistant, just in case you get caught in the rain. Drys real fast too.

Your other option, since water resistance isn't important to you, is a good softshell like Ibex and others make.

I just got a Burley Rockpoint which I tried out today (about 32F). It looks nicer and is more water resistant, but with the same base/mid layers I was overheating big time - which is why I will probably only use it for then it's raining/snowing.

The big thing you want to look for is plenty of ventilation - front zip, pit zips, back vents, adjustable sleeve cuffs, etc. Think of your body as an engine - you need some air on the intake, as well as a good exhaust system, to keep your temperature properly regulated.

[rainman99]

J&G Wind Jacket is my favorite year-round jacket. With a polypro base layer and a merino wool mid layer underneath, I'm good down into the teens (F). It has good pit zips for ventilation and it is fairly water resistant, just in case you get caught in the rain. Drys real fast too.

Your other option, since water resistance isn't important to you, is a good softshell like Ibex and others make.

I just got a Burley Rockpoint which I tried out today (about 32F). It looks nicer and is more water resistant, but with the same base/mid layers I was overheating big time - which is why I will probably only use it for then it's raining/snowing.

The big thing you want to look for is plenty of ventilation - front zip, pit zips, back vents, adjustable sleeve cuffs, etc. Think of your body as an engine - you need some air on the intake, as well as a good exhaust system, to keep your temperature properly regulated.

Thanks, Chipcom. Your posts and some independent research on this is pushing me toward the nylon shell plus layering. What is your thought on synthetic baselayers vs. merino like ibex, smartwool and icebreaker? How about midlayers?

[chipcom]

Thanks, Chipcom. Your posts and some independent research on this is pushing me toward the nylon shell plus layering. What is your thought on synthetic baselayers vs. merino like ibex, smartwool and icebreaker? How about midlayers?

I like a polypro base layer, though I've also been happy with a 'bellana' wool base that I got from nashbar a few years ago (damned pricy though). For a mid layer, nothing beats Merino wool in my book. You can find merino wool sweaters cheap in most thrift stores and even some dept stores like Target.

Again, the big thing for the shell is ventilation - plenty of ADJUSTABLE ways to let air in and out.

[ViperZ]

I like a polypro base layer, though I've also been happy with a 'bellana' wool base that I got from nashbar a few years ago (damned pricy though). For a mid layer, nothing beats Merino wool in my book. You can find merino wool sweaters cheap in most thrift stores and even some dept stores like Target.

Again, the big thing for the shell is ventilation - plenty of ADJUSTABLE ways to let air in and out.

I use to always wear Merino Wool ski sweaters, but the advent of Polartec has changed that. I find Polartec 100-200 (fleece) is just as warm as wool and it's a lot lighter and easier to wear. My Wool sweaters stay in the closet now :)

Poly Pro base layer is good, put a 100wt Polar fleece and a wind shell with ventilation and you will be good to go. At least that's what I generally wear even down to -30C while biking. My Pearl Izumi Vagabond Shell works well with the Polypro base layer and 100 Polartec. Better than I would imagined for such a thin shell, but you do start off colder.

If my effort level is going to be less strenuous, then I'll put on a heavier weight fleece/soft shells, or one of my Wind-stopper fleeces, and/or one of my 3 layer Gore shells. It all depends on what I'm doing and the temperature outside. Sometimes there is more mucking around outside than actual riding, for times like that you need to dress a bit heavier with thicker layers.

[chipcom]

But can you get Polartec for 5 bucks at the thrift shop? ;)

[ViperZ]

But can you get Polartec for 5 bucks at the thrift shop? ;)

Do I seem like the type of person to spend $5 at a thrift shop looking for cycling clothing? ;)

However your point is valid :D Maybe not Polartec or maybe, but some type of fleece that is close. It may have some Sponsor's logo or trucking company name on it as well :lol:

[chipcom]

Do I seem like the type of person to spend $5 at a thrift shop looking for cycling clothing? ;)

However your point is valid :D Maybe not Polartec, but some type of fleece that is close. It may have some Sponsor's logo or trucking company name on it as well :lol:

It's kinda of ironic...I have bought 8 new bikes over the last 2 years for myself or others, built two from scratch on old vintage steel frames for me, buy whatever cycling gear (and clothing) I feel like just to try it out...yet lurk the thrift store for my wool riding sweaters. I think I have clothing shopping avoidance issues. :eek:

[ViperZ]

It's kinda of ironic...I have bought 8 new bikes over the last 2 years for myself or others, built two from scratch on old vintage steel frames for me, buy whatever cycling gear (and clothing) I feel like just to try it out...yet lurk the thrift store for my wool riding sweaters. I think I have clothing shopping avoidance issues. :eek:


Hey, we all have our own idiosyncrasies, sometimes I'll lurk Pawn shops hoping to find that gem of a vintage power amplifier. Besides, you never know what you'll find if you don't look. :beer:

[grahny]

has anyone tried or heard of good/bad/indifferent reporting on the PI gavia jacket... a tad overpriced as most of their stuff is, but I like their stuff... their bibs, shorts, warmers, gloves have served me very well and I'd be willing to shell out the $150 if the jacket will keep me warm for 2+hrs of winter riding. My last ride the other day was about 35 degrees + wind chill and I had on so many layers I think I constricted my breathing :)... I'd pay to be able to wear a base t, 1 winter jersey + jacket.... uh, pay that is except for Ass_o__s products.

[ragboy]

I dunno, maybe I'm a freak -- but I use the PI Zephyr shell over a mid layer and PI long sleeve base layer for my 35 minute commute and it's kept me cozy down to 10F. I paid around $60 for my PI jacket -- some say overpriced, but I'm totally satisfied with my PI gear.

[Jarery]

. My last ride the other day was about 35 degrees + wind chill and I had on so many layers I think I constricted my breathing :)... .

At 35 degrees i wear at max, 3 thin layers, and a shell. Usually at that temp its only 1 base, 1 jersey, and a shell. If you have so many layers on you cant move, id look for a different layering approach then a more thermal jacket.

[grahny]

At 35 degrees i wear at max, 3 thin layers, and a shell. Usually at that temp its only 1 base, 1 jersey, and a shell. If you have so many layers on you cant move, id look for a different layering approach then a more thermal jacket.

yeah.. I thought about that too... it really comes down to the fact that I just have all form fitting stuff, so my layers get tighter and tighter as they stack on one another, hence the lack of oxygen :).. I could move ok, it just felt constricting. I figure getting rid of all the layers except a base, a jersey and a jacket would loosen things up and still provide the same amount of warmth, but add some wind protection. The layers I do wear now keep me warm just fine, it just feels constricting since they're all form fit. The ride the other day was 35 + 15-20mph winds, so it was beating through me... my fingers and toes were the only actual cold parts.

Funny though... As I was putting on all the layers and about to walk out the door, I suddenly felt like the kid from Christmas Story all bundled up and unable to move his arms.. haha.. :D

[mscommuter]

The jackets I like the most are those from Gore and Pearl...especially those that convert to a vest since some winter days can be quite mild and removeable sleeves and pit vents seem like a good option to have. I don't plan on riding in the rain, although you can always get caught I guess, so how a jacket performs in the rain really doesn't concern me. Wind protection is important since the Northeast can get blustery at times. And then, of course, there's the breatheability factor. Like I said...all very confusing, at least to me.

I can understand your confusion, I've learned more about performance activewear in the last few months than I ever dreamed existed. :) I'm on Long Island, so fairly similar to your weather -- my positively "magical" combination for days like the last couple where it's about 22 degrees on my morning commute is a SmartWool mid-weight top, a Polartec 200 full-zip fleece, and a thin/light hooded full-zip rain/wind jacket. That's my fave combo so far - I HIGHLY recommend SmartWool, it is amazing stuff in my book, wicks beautifully, dries quickly, incredibly warm and comfy.

Personally, being a girl, I prefer having a waterproof jacket with a hood -- just in case I catch a shower so I don't have to deal too much with my hair upon arriving at work.

As someone else said, absolute key for managing your body temp is everything but your base layer if possible being full-zip. I don't have a PI or a Gore jacket, but I do know I'm getting this Golite one for Christmas and I'm very excited about it -- it'll be my first with pit zips, which I also agree are probably nifty to have. (see attachment)

Extremities are important, but I think everyone is just different -- even at 22 degrees, I'm still getting by just fine with one pair of thin non-performance tights on my lower half, thin mitten type gloves, sometimes a turtle around my neck, sometimes not. Essentially, if my arms and mid-section are warm, it plays a large role in whether the rest of me is doin' ok. Only you can predict what gets coldest on you first.

[SemperFi]

I received a Pearl Izumi Barrier jacket for Christmas from one of my boys...can't wait to try it out!

[Bob Ross]

10 or 11 years ago I bought a Performance jacket (it might have been a variation on their Century jacket but I'm not positive) that has wind/water-resistant panels on the front, and breathable fleece on the back. To this day it has provided the best combination of warmth, wind-resistance, and breathability of any jacket I've tried since.

The only things wrong with it are A) it doesn't have any rear pockets, and B) it's *too* warm for most of the riding I do in NYC. (Eg., I rarely ride below 30 degrees F.) But I think my tolerance for cold cycling has improved significantly this year.

What I've been getting a lot more use out of this year is a Canari windbreaker with zip-off sleeves. I wear it as a sleeveless vest 95% of the time; it doesn't breath for sh!t when the sleeves are attached. But with a longsleeve baselayer & a longsleeve jersey underneath the vest, it's proven to be quite warm & windproof for riding into the high 30's.

[backinthesaddle]

If any BF members out there ride under similar winter conditions and have a Gore or Pearl Izumi (or other) jacket that they just can't do without, I would be interested in your experiences and recommendations.

I've been very happy with this Gore jacket/jersey. It hung in my closet in the summer but come winter it's been the mainstay of my kit.

http://images.rei.com/media/915515.jpg


Sleeves are removable. It's very breathable and very windproof -- I didn't think that could really be done.
They advertise that it can be used without a skin layer, but for colder weather I use longsleeve merino wool jersey underneath and it's been good down to below 40F on cold mornings. Over 55 F it's too warm with an underlayer. Of course you can take off the sleeves and wear it up to maybe 65 max.

Of course, I'm in Northern California so that may not be adequate if you're in NY and doing colder winter riding.

[bac]

I've been very happy with this Gore jacket/jersey. It hung in my closet in the summer but come winter it's been the mainstay of my kit.

I also have a Gore jacket, but it's just a bit heavier with no removable arms. It does have great pit zippers, and a nice mesh lining though. I've been running it as long as I've been riding in the winter, and it's a sweet piece of fabric:

http://www.velotees.com/images/Gore1.jpg

[bac]

http://www.velotees.com/images/Gore2.jpg

[bac]

http://www.velotees.com/images/Gore3.jpg

[Slice2]

A year ago, I tried the Gore jacket above, but it bound up too much at the front of my shoulders in the riding position. It's a really well-made jacket, but it felt like wearing a rubber scuba suit. I ended up with a Barrier jacket for about $90 at Peformance. It has worked amazingly well in conditions from 20's to 50's. All I ever wear underneath is a merino baselayer with a long front zip, or just a jersey in warmer temps.

I thought the lack of pit zips would make it too hot, but it has a full width vent flap across the back, so when you open the front zipper, air flows around your upper body really well. The cut is comfortable and the sleeves are long enough but a bit tight to get on. The zipper works easy with one hand.

My only very minor complaint is that the 2 rear zippered pockets could be larger, but there are also 2 hidden zippered pockets in the front. The Zephyr outer fabric on the front of the arms & torso is pretty much windproof, and extra heat gets released out the back even with the front zipper closed up. I've had it in some torrential downpours and while not waterproof, I didn't get chilled either. It has a good amount of reflective material on the back. It's been laundered a number of times now and is still like new.

[ViperZ]

I also have a Gore jacket, but it's just a bit heavier with no removable arms. It does have great pit zippers, and a nice mesh lining though. I've been running it as long as I've been riding in the winter, and it's a sweet piece of fabric:

http://www.velotees.com/images/Gore1.jpg


That looks to be a nice piece!

[SemperFi]

Glad to hear good things about the Barrier jacket. Still haven't been on the bike with it but I like the fit and the look...feels more like a jersey than a jacket and as long as it holds up against the elements I'll be quite satisfied.

[rule]

I've been commuting the past two winters with PI Barrier gear with no complaints. I have tried a lot of stuff that wasn't near as good but cost a bunch more. The back venting really works. That Gore jacket and its pit zips looks pretty sweet though too.

Could use the Performance Bike gift cards that I got for Christmas...along with the 10% coupon that they have running today...and look, they have one that is just my size. Be right back!

:D

[Jarery]

The gore is made from windstopper, the same expanded plastic membrane as their waterproof barely breathable jackets. They just dont add the drw coating, which lets it breath a bit better, and they dont tape the seams so its not totally waterproof.

Works in very cold climates where the temperature stops any sweating, but as Slice2 posted above, it'll become a scuba suit in sweat if its warm enough to sweat. If it was 20-30 bucks though the price/performance would make it a good deal :)

[Bekologist]

fleece clothing is so mass produced and such crap, you CAN find polartec for five bucks or less at the thrift stores.


but that thrift store merino, is much more nice, for about the same price.

big downside of all synthetic base layers- they STINK- some worse than others. Patagonia's Capilene is among the worst.

if you start wearing a lot of capilene, you'll get fired from jobs, girlfriends will break up with you and heck, even your dog might leave you.

Gore is making a lot of cycling gear, even some nonbarrier microfiber shells, its not all goretex and windstopper from the W.L. Gore company anymore.

[feethanddooth]

ive got a pearl jacket that works pretty well for what i use it for, cold, dry winter rides. ive riden down to around 15 degrees with it, using the jacket as a shell in a layers, and it did its job. when it rains though it starts to bleed water after about 15 minutes in a heavy down pour. it wasnt their top line jacket though. im happy with it though.

[rainman99]

Hey Chipcom, I went ahead and bought this jacket. So here is what I have been using for down to the high 20s: two layers of icebreaker merino wool (190g and 260g) plus the J&G windjacket. This is good until it gets much below freezing and then I add a pearl izumi barrier vest, but I am hot by the time I get into work. I have not had this tested with cold rain, but I keep an additional lightweight rain jacket in my backpack as well. Definitely happier with this more breatheable combo. Thanks for the advice.

[Phantoj]

I converted to the soft-shell by picking up a Marmot ATV off of ebay ($50, the picture was blurry and description was vague). Love it! love it love it! I'll go with the eVent jacket for a real downpour, but you gotta be nuts to go out in a downpour anyway. For typical Seattle weather, it's great - comfy, flows air ("breathes"?) well, wicks great. Mine is Schoeller Extreme, I think. My wife has a newer ATV with the Marmot-branded fabric, but it appears to be pretty similar.

I might pick up a vest or convertible jacket, just because I think I would like one...

I think a smart cycling outfit would be a good LIGHT softshell like a Marmot ATV (actually that Gore "jersey" that backinthesaddle posted is a lot like my ATV) and also a cheap nylon or even PVC rainjacket for the rare deluge. I think that's smarter than spending a ton of dough on a "breatheable" waterproof and sweating in it the whole time.

[Ernesto Schwein]

for temps above 20f I think a combination of a technical cold weather jersey/jacket with a full zip and a water resistant shell is more useful than a one piece winter jacket. I've never been happy with the cost/performance ratio of Pearl Izumi stuff (and I own quite a bit of it), the best thing I can say about PI is that it is sized for north americans.