Mountain Biking - avid mechanical discs

anyone know of any reason i shouldn't get avid mechanical disks for my rocky mountain element? my friends keep saying i should get hayes hydro, but if avid mechs work and are far cheaper, why not?

Originally posted by gonesh9
anyone know of any reason i shouldn't get avid mechanical disks for my rocky mountain element? my friends keep saying i should get hayes hydro, but if avid mechs work and are far cheaper, why not?

Because you like the smell of brake fluid? ;)

I have a couple questions regarding this topic too.

I'm going to get the avid mech disc brakes. That I'm sold on. I need disc hubs though. I saw a shimano XT disc hub set for $60 on pricepoint. Or 2 deore disc hubs are $40 total. Is it worth the extra $20 to go with XT? Will these work with the avids? Is it difficult to replace the hubs? I have stock matrix 750 rims (on an '01 Trek 4500). Would it be less painful just to buy some new wheels altogether? I don't have a lot of tools and I don't know how hard it would be to attach my old rims to new hubs.

thanks

It would definately be less painful and a lot better of an upgrade to do a whole wheelset. XT hubs are bombproof and have never heard of problems with them. I have a pair laced to mavic X223 rims. Any disc will fit any hub as long as you're not talking about the new XTR stuff which is a whole differant subject all together

Xt's are good hubs (definately not bombproof as I know lots of people who have damaged them but they go big). Xt's are a signifigant (wow I can't spell) over Deore.

Excuse my flippant reply from earlier. However, I was just talking to some of the guys at my LBS and the subject of hydraulic vs mechs came up. One person brought up a point I hadn't really considered before. He says that from his experience, Avid mechs may work fine in dryer conditions but in the really muddy riding world where we live [PacNW], sincve the caliper mechanism isn't sealed up like in hydros they can become gunked up. Also the cables themselves can get gunked up like with traditional linear pull brakes. Can anyone relate on the performance impacts when this happens? I know how my V-brakes get when the actuators get gunked up. I don't think it really hurts them much. The loss in braking is more from having stuff in the contact area which as far as mech vs hydro discs should be similar.

I just got some hayes hydros. I haven't even used them yet except to test them on the street. I will tell you this. They are a pain to set up and make them work right. (see my thread "finally, the "how to...etc")

They do have a learning curve, and don't brake well at first. I've yet to get past "at first", so i can't say how they'll be. But consider what others say...most seem to love them and many say they suck till broken in over the course of a few rides.

On the bright side, the learning curve isn't as bad as i thought it would be during the 1st hour or so of messing with them. The problems i had i figured out pretty easily. But as i said, i've yet to use them other than a few short tests, so it'll be a few rides before i can evaluate them.

So consider this....the avid mechanicals *may* not be any easier to set up other than the lack of having to bleed them. And the power and/or feel *may* not be as good. Also consider that at jensonusa.com you can get the hayes for $99 a wheel, which isn't much more than the avids.

I'm not suggesting either one, but just giving you some food for thought.

Avids ARE easier to set up. Many people say they feel almost as good as hydros. As far as mud goes on my last ride (which was mud city Florida swampland) they hooked up beautifly. and at $69 bucks a wheel Here (http://pricepoint.com/product6.html) I'd say the savings are significant. As for being sealed:

From cambriabike.com
Sealed Mechanism
The caliper is fully sealed to prevent contamination. Seals are located behind the brake pad and on the brake arm. Cable stop seals are also provided to prevent any contamination of the cable. No other mechanical disc provides this level of sealing. The result is improved long-term brake performance and less maintenance.
Avid Full Metal Jacket Disc Brake Cable Set
What's even more efficient than hydraulic fluid? This stainless steel conduit. A sealed system with no compression and no friction. Zero. So your cable cable-actuated disc brakes will work like new long after some other systems have given up the ghost OR
Avid Flak Jacket Cable Set
Your cables are to your bike what your nerves are to you. A good cable system delivers smooth, quick movements and increases your bike’s reaction time to cockpit requests. Avid takes this performance to a new level with its Flak Jacket cable housing. Avid’s own Shield-Lock ferrules ensures the entire system is completely sealed from the elements.

I'm running a set of Rhynolites laced to XT hubs and I have no complaints so far. Oh and montlake I'd say it would be less painful to swap the whole wheelset. (What better reason to upgrade?)

When you want to know about a product ask the guy who has one.

If you've got limited experience in wheel building, forget swapping just hubs. If your hub flanges are different diameters (I'd bet money they are) then you also need all new spokes. Plus matrix rims aren't the greatest, and not really worth relacing to new hubs. If you check out some mail-order, you can find some XT disc hubs laced to decent rims for under $200. I wouldn't recommend anything less!

As far as contamination, I'd only be concerned with the Avid's if you NEVER clean your bike, and NEVER maintain it. You will NOT get so much contamination on a single ride to affect the performance of the AVID's.

Set-up of Hayes may be a bit more time consuming initially, but then very little after that. Avid's will be easier to set-up, but no matter how good they're set-up they won't work as well as properly set-up Hayes Hydro's. Sorry, truth hurts! Avid's do work very well, better than any other mechanical on the market and better than some hydro's. Just not better than a quality Hydro!

You ought to check out www.wheelworld.com they have a disc upgrade package deal including brakes, levers, rotors, and wheels for like $400.

L8R

Personally I think the hayes are much easier to set up than the avids! They both bolt on the exact same way! With the avids you have many dials to adjust on the caliper depending on how you want them to feel, where you want them to grab, and all that stuff, and then you still haven't even gotten to the lever adjustments yet. UGG. Plus the hayes brakes keep their adjusments, the avids...you have to fiddle around with once in a while. They don't self adjust for pad wear.
The avids do work very well for mechanical, but hydros...with the exception of very few...work as good, but usually better. And yes you do have to worry about contamination of cables and the caliper it's self on the avids.... spend the few extra bucks on they hydros...you'll be happier in the end. Of course that is my point of view.

:beer:

And just get a set of pre built wheels.... you can get them cheap! Plus you dont have the headaches of finding spokes(disc wheels have many different spoke lenths...), lacing it, making sure it's tensioned/and dished correctly.

There was a test in Bicycling magazine about one year ago. The Avids on whole beat all of the hydraulics. The only thing that the Avids lost at was "feel". As a result of that test and the recomendation of the LBS I put Avids on my bike. They cannot be beat! I ride trails on the FL coast with lots of rain, mud and sand. Not a problem yet.

where's the cheapest place to get hayes hydros?

Very nice! The package deal at wheelworld.com is $299!

the kit from wheelworld comes with deore hubs though. the same set-up with XT can be bought on pricepoint for $280 except I'm confused as to why there are two mavic 223 wheelsets available at different prices.
can someone explain to me why
this set is $140 (http://pricepoint.com/product50.html) and why this set is $170 (http://pricepoint.com/product165.html) :confused:
thanks

Someone smoked something funny and has two seperate entries in the db...one is wrong and one isn't :)

I put a pair of Avid mechanical disks and a pair of Mavic x317s on XT hubs on my MTB earlier this year and can't think of anything but superlatives to say about the combo. I had to purchase the Brakes Components adapter to mount on the rear of the bike, but it also works as advertised. I am really pleased with the set-up and highly recommend. I weigh 200 and ride XC and the 160mm disk does all I need. So much better than V-brakes I replaced. Especially in any type of wet.

where's the cheapest place to get hayes hydros?

This is where i got mine. $99 per wheel. Cost me $223 total including shipping. They bought a bunch of bikes from some manufacturer and parted them out. They had Hayes, so hence a great deal, plus they are cut, pre-bled, and ready to bolt on. Just look at the cable lengths listed on the page linked below and measure your bike to be safe.

http://www.jensonusa.com/store/product.asp?number=05215

By the way......i was EXTREMELY impressed with jensonusa.com. When he told me my bike would require a adapter for the rear mount i guess i sounded a bit dismayed, so he threw it in free. Then when i got them, i found one washer missing. It's a wierd shaped one i knew i couldn't find at a hardware store. So i called them and ONE DAY LATER a fedex package arrived with a few washers ! One day !! Plus they went to pains to get info i asked about. I think jenson is one high caliber store. I will buy all my parts from them for now on unless the price is much higher than elsewhere, which judging by what i've seen so far isn't likely.

Originally posted by dazco
This is where i got mine. $99 per wheel. Cost me $223 total including shipping. They bought a bunch of bikes from some manufacturer and parted them out. They had Hayes, so hence a great deal, plus they are cut, pre-bled, and ready to bolt on. Just look at the cable lengths listed on the page linked below and measure your bike to be safe.

http://www.jensonusa.com/store/product.asp?number=05215

By the way......i was EXTREMELY impressed with jensonusa.com. When he told me my bike would require a adapter for the rear mount i guess i sounded a bit dismayed, so he threw it in free. Then when i got them, i found one washer missing. It's a wierd shaped one i knew i couldn't find at a hardware store. So i called them and ONE DAY LATER a fedex package arrived with a few washers ! One day !! Plus they went to pains to get info i asked about. I think jenson is one high caliber store. I will buy all my parts from them for now on unless the price is much higher than elsewhere, which judging by what i've seen so far isn't likely.
ya, after your post, I looked it up on jenson ... Those are the 2000 models and I emailed them about the differences. They said that 00-02 is the same and 03 has a few minor changes. I'm debating whether to get these or the avid mechs.

I also got my Avid mechs. at JensonUSA. $69.95/wheel. Simple, idiot-proof to install. No bleeding, no mess. I have had excellent service and response from Jenson, as well.

Originally posted by ParamountScapin
I also got my Avid mechs. at JensonUSA. $69.95/wheel. Simple, idiot-proof to install. No bleeding, no mess. I have had excellent service and response from Jenson, as well.
70/wheel? mechanical?

Has anyone had problems with the Avids squealing when breaking? Only my front brakes do it, and I tried cleaning the rotors and pads with Dawn (degreaser). It's slightly better now, but still squeals.

Any ideas to get rid of the squeal? They're great otherwise. Btw, these are new; only used 3 times.

Any ideas to get rid of the squeal?

I tried this and it worked well for my hayes. Sand the brake pads with about #400, then clean them thuroughly with rubbing alcohol. Also clean the discs with alcohol. This totally got rid of it except when braking extremely hard, and even then it wasn't as loud.

Thanks, i'll try that. I guess I should also compare the front pads to the rear ones.