Advocacy & Safety - Sharing with other travel modes

As a cyclist, what do you prefer? Do you prefer riding with motorists, or do you prefer riding with pedestrians? (Don't say you prefer riding with other cyclists. :D ) Or do you have a preference?

(If it's ok with everyone, I want to avoid multiple cross-posting, that is, two or more posters developing a "conversation" with each other. Please try to address the question at hand rather than debate your preference with others here. Thanks in advance, and Peace be unto thee. ;) )

Motorists by a mile.

With motorists because they're in the street with me and peds aren't. Besides, peds are too slow and would get in the way.

Definitely motorists, but I only ride on streets where I can go at or near the same speed as cars, or where there is lots of room for motorists to safely get around me.

I don't understand the question... If you are riding with someone, doesn't that make them a cyclist too? Or do you mean riding 'alongside' motorists or pedestrians?

If I ever found myself riding alongside pedestrians I would probably wonder what I was doing on the sidewalk. Having said that, riding with motorists would be my choice but not really because I enjoy it a hell of a lot.

I am ok with sharing with every one.

Its very funny to hear cyclist complain about pedestrians slowing them down.

Motorists here too, peds would slow me down too much.

It's not surprising that everyone on this board is giving the same answer so far. Maybe the results would be different on another board, such as Recreational & Family or even maybe slightly on Commuting.

Its very funny to hear cyclist complain about pedestrians slowing them down.
Why? If you ride among them, do you slow down for them, or just zip by?

Why? If you ride among them, do you slow down for them, or just zip by?

The OP asked us not to get into this.

Cyclist dont mind making motorist slow down, but cant stand to be slowed by anyone.:D

The OP asked us not to get into this.

Cyclist dont mind making motorist slow down, but cant stand to be slowed by anyone.:D

Which is simply to say: nobody enjoys being slowed.

Road

(and if pedestrians are legally using road I am happy sharing with them too)

Al

Which is simply to say: nobody enjoys being slowed.

Not exactly,more like some some cyclist are just as bad as cagers.

I myself dont mind being slowed by cyclist or peds, or dogs turtles lizards.
I do however hate it when Jeff Gordan gets in my way:D

I changed my answer--motorists.

Motorists by a mile.

Ditto.

Though if all the motor traffic is Mercedes, BMW and Crotch Rockets it might be close. The biggest thing is cars are a lot more predictable than peds. Even the bad cars have the advantage of usually being identifyable beforehand, with peds you usually have no warning at all when they suddenly decide to do something stupid. For that matter cars don;t have the manuverability to be able to do many of the stupid things peds do.

Definitely motorists, but I only ride on streets where I can go at or near the same speed as cars, or where there is lots of room for motorists to safely get around me.

Wow, you wouldn't go anywhere in my town. Once I leave my tiny neighborhood, I am in 35MPH traffic. If I want to go anywhere beyond the local grocer, I will be in 45 and 50 MPH traffic. That is just the way the streets are.

The only "same speed traffic" is right in my tiny neighborhood... less than a mile in length, and maybe a 1/2 mile wide.

I am ok with sharing with every one.

Its very funny to hear cyclist complain about pedestrians slowing them down.

I tend to agree. What I want is enough room to work with whomever is there... a wide lane to work with flowing motorists and a wide path to work with slower peds.

My honest preference is an isolated country road where I am the only one on the road. Bit of overhanging trees... giving me shade and dappled light. A touch of a breeze, off of a river, with the breeze blowing across the path, so it is neither head nor tail wind. A beautiful view... gentle rolling hills and a promise of a good wine and meal at the end of the ride... followed by a nap on a soft pillow...

OOPs did I go too far :o

I tend to agree. What I want is enough room to work with whomever is there... a wide lane to work with flowing motorists and a wide path to work with slower peds.

My honest preference is an isolated country road where I am the only one on the road. Bit of overhanging trees... giving me shade and dappled light. A touch of a breeze, off of a river, with the breeze blowing across the path, so it is neither head nor tail wind. A beautiful view... gentle rolling hills and a promise of a good wine and meal at the end of the ride... followed by a nap on a soft pillow...

OOPs did I go too far :o

Methinks you have your priority in order:)

Riding with motorists? Too "dangerous", they zip pass you at 50 to 100 km/hr.

Riding with pedestrians? Too slow and unpredictable.

So, after some thought, I would prefer riding with horses. Horses probably show me a lot of respect.:lol:

Riding with motorists? Too "dangerous", they zip pass you at 50 to 100 km/hr.

Riding with pedestrians? Too slow and unpredictable.

So, after some thought, I would prefer riding with horses. Horses probably show me a lot of respect.:lol:

Too much methane for me.:)

My honest preference is an isolated country road where I am the only one on the road. Bit of overhanging trees... giving me shade and dappled light. A touch of a breeze, off of a river, with the breeze blowing across the path, so it is neither head nor tail wind. A beautiful view... gentle rolling hills and a promise of a good wine and meal at the end of the ride... followed by a nap on a soft pillow...

OOPs did I go too far :o
:lol: You forgot the beautiful female feeding you grapes... :D

<ahem>

:D

I prefer motorists, but like Gene, give me a quiet road all to myself... I really don't like the stuff coming from their tailpipes, but it's not a perfect world.

Actually, the worst crash I had was due to a pedestrian attacking me in broad daylight. Going over the bars headfirst can be pretty bad, no cars around.

At least motorists have to pass a nominal test of rules of the road before getting a license. If pedestrians could be "trained" similarly to share an MUP (such as: don't walk 3 abreast across the path, stay to the right, expect to be passed by bicyclists on the left, don't let dogs wander all over the path, etc.), I might be swayed. I'd feel safer because a collision wouldn't be as likely to result in death. However, since peds aren't trained, and since it's chaotic out there on sidewalks and MUPs, I'll go with riding with automobiles any day.

Its very funny to hear cyclist complain about pedestrians slowing them down.

Which is simply to say: nobody enjoys being slowed. I don't think it's really too much to do with pedestrian SPEEDS per se, but the fact that they are completely unpredictable and do not "share the sidewalk". Honestly, I often hate dealing with pedestrians when I am a pedestrian myself: too often a large group of them, for example, will try to block the whole sidewalk and not give a hoot. Now when was the last time you saw cyclists block all lanes in all directions (CMs don't count :D)? If pedestrians would at least more or less keep to the right and "compactify" large groups a bit to give some passing room to faster/opposite-direction traffic, I would much prefer them to motor vehicles even if they are much slower. But as of now - cars all the way.

My response depends on the situation.

Example: The San Luis Rey river MUP runs roughly parallel to the Highway 76 expressway. Eastbound, I prefer the MUP, to avoid high-speed free right turns and merges at the access ramps. Westbound, blissfully free of fast diverges and merges, I prefer the 76 shoulder.

I love country roads
( Country roads, take me home
To the place I belong
West virginia, mountain momma
Take me home, country roads
)
I would love more ubiquitous terms such a RFP/Z this is a ****** Free Path or Zone. I don't care who it is that I am passing or is passing me as long as they don't endager me. I like peds they are cool to talk to can't do it when you lock your self in a cage.

Motorists. There are usually more of them on the road than there are peds on the sidewalk/footpath, which makes them more given to following the herd mentality and thus more predictable. Besides, cars are heavy, ponderous beasts, which limits their ability to change direction quickly. If I behaved on the road the way pedestrians behaved on shared paths, I'd be dead within about five minutes.

Motorists. There are usually more of them on the road than there are peds on the sidewalk/footpath, which makes them more given to following the herd mentality and thus more predictable. Besides, cars are heavy, ponderous beasts, which limits their ability to change direction quickly. If I behaved on the road the way pedestrians behaved on shared paths, I'd be dead within about five minutes.
Its simply a matter that cars and bicycles are vehicular and generally follow vehicular rules, so co-mingling is natural.
It is not the pedestrians fault, low speed or a form 'defective' behavior for being hard to flow with, it is simply the nature of pedestrian movement.

Al

Polite motorists and polite pedestrians.

I fancy myself as a polite cyclist, so it all works out. :)

I don't think it's really too much to do with pedestrian SPEEDS per se, but the fact that they are completely unpredictable and do not "share the sidewalk". Honestly, I often hate dealing with pedestrians when I am a pedestrian myself: too often a large group of them, for example, will try to block the whole sidewalk and not give a hoot. Now when was the last time you saw cyclists block all lanes in all directions (CMs don't count :D)? If pedestrians would at least more or less keep to the right and "compactify" large groups a bit to give some passing room to faster/opposite-direction traffic, I would much prefer them to motor vehicles even if they are much slower. But as of now - cars all the way.


You have a valid gripe about people not caring and being unpredictable, especially in groups, but that is people not necessarily peds.
I have been on lots of paths where cyclists were blocking the entire path and going above the posted speed limit to boot.

I was just going by the folks complaining about peds being slow.

For convenience and safety, I choose to ride on roadways and only occasionally use Multi-Use Paths if they are shortcuts or if I am ready for a slow, lazy ride to the park with my son in the trailer. I never ride on sidewalks.

I sometimes avoid busy roads when pulling my son in the trailer, though, for family harmony and avoidance of some strong social taboos, and this avoidance will occasionally put me on a Multi-Use Path. But by myself I never choose the path instead of the roadway.

You have a valid gripe about people not caring and being unpredictable, especially in groups, but that is people not necessarily peds.
I have been on lots of paths where cyclists were blocking the entire path and going above the posted speed limit to boot. That is true as well. It's just that such behaviour is much more common with pedestrians since they are not accustomed to following any rules unless there is a danger of being struck by a motor vehicle. Anyway, we were given a choice between peds and motorists in the OP, and I don't find groups of motorists blocking all lanes and driving at 5 mph while their dogs on extendable leashes are happily running around the road. :D


I was just going by the folks complaining about peds being slow. Did anyone actually complained about peds' being slow? I think they complained about being slowed down by peds - and that's very different. I have no problem with slow-moving road/path users as long as they are not blocking traffic unnecessarily: most of the time, one isn't slowed down too much by such traffic and if one is - well, one's just supposed to accept it, they have a right to be there too. Cyclists hate blocking traffic, and a lot of the time endanger themselves just to let cars flow more freely... :( But peds block traffic and do crazy things on shared paths all the flucking time, hence the cyclists' frustration.

I almost creamed somebody's little fluffy dog the other day on my bike. Count me in as preferring to ride my bike alongside other motorists, but if the bike path is empty, I prefer to ride on it all alone.

I hate retractable leashes.

3rd or 4th post " "Besides, peds are too slow".

This is just a people thing some are always in a hurry, cagers, or motorists as I like to call them, complain about being slowed by bikes, bikes complain about being slowed by peds, peds complain about bikes and last but not least the Hare thinks the Tortoise is slow.

I don't think it's really too much to do with pedestrian SPEEDS per se, but the fact that they are completely unpredictable and do not "share the sidewalk". Honestly, I often hate dealing with pedestrians when I am a pedestrian myself: too often a large group of them, for example, will try to block the whole sidewalk and not give a hoot. Now when was the last time you saw cyclists block all lanes in all directions (CMs don't count :D)? If pedestrians would at least more or less keep to the right and "compactify" large groups a bit to give some passing room to faster/opposite-direction traffic, I would much prefer them to motor vehicles even if they are much slower. But as of now - cars all the way.

Funny thing is... this is the extact set of complaints motorists have about cyclists. Saturday mornings on rural highways round here can get tricky with bicycle clubs out and can block all lanes of traffic for short periods of time if we are rude.

Funny thing is... this is the extact set of complaints motorists have about cyclists. Saturday mornings on rural highways round here can get tricky with bicycle clubs out and can block all lanes of traffic for short periods of time if we are rude.

I have had this happen to me several times,
Being a cyclist I dont really mind to much, and somtimes there are ladies in the group:D

Really, everywhere I ride pedestrians are a very rare animal. Kind of like the Florida Panther. I know they're around, but it's very rare to see one.

I'll choose motorists by default, and since that's the kind of riding I'm used to, I would still choose motorists if presented with an area where peds were prevalent.:)

Funny thing is... this is the extact set of complaints motorists have about cyclists. Saturday mornings on rural highways round here can get tricky with bicycle clubs out and can block all lanes of traffic for short periods of time if we are rude. Come on, that happens only:

- on Saturday mornings
- on certain otherwise mostly deserted rural highways
- and, as you mentioned, for a short period of time .

Pedestrians do it all the time.

And do you really mean "all lanes"? Even the ones in the opposite direction?? :eek: Surely not. Peds, on the other hand... I really would love it if they only occupied the right half of the path! At least when there is other traffic present. That's all I ask for, really...

If by "peds are too slow" you're talking about "I don't want to be stuck behind a group of peds going at their speed," then I completely agree. Humans fast-walk at about 4mph. That's why on an MUP it's critical that there's always room to safely pass. It's not about going fast. It's about not biking at speeds that are too low to give you the forward momentum that keeps you from tipping over.

When I walk my bike, my bike tells me I'm walking at around 3 mph.
When I ride my bike (easy), my bike tells me I'm biking at around 15 mph.
When I ride my bike (hard), my bike tells me I'm biking at around 22 mph.

To have the same relative amount slowing, cars would have to be going
75 mph when I'm biking easy or
110 when I'm biking hard...

Come on, that happens only:

- on Saturday mornings
- on certain otherwise mostly deserted rural highways
- and, as you mentioned, for a short period of time .

Pedestrians do it all the time.

And do you really mean "all lanes"? Even the ones in the opposite direction?? :eek: Surely not. Peds, on the other hand...

Yes all lanes. or both lanes with a double yellow.

Cant happen on deserted highway.:rolleyes:

Peds are only in my way for a short period of time.

Cyclists are just like everybody else, and being just like everybody else they dont want to admit it.:rolleyes:

Come on, that happens only:

- on Saturday mornings
- on certain otherwise mostly deserted rural highways
- and, as you mentioned, for a short period of time .

Pedestrians do it all the time.

And do you really mean "all lanes"? Even the ones in the opposite direction?? :eek: Surely not. Peds, on the other hand...

Yea, I'm mostly agreeing with you. But motorists are contrained by other motorists, and when one cyclist takes a lane, which most of us do on a regular basis, many times it leaves the motorist nothing to do but wait. Which is precisely what you complain about with peds. But no matter, I'm not agreeing with the motorist's complaints, just pointing out that their complaints are very similar to yours directed against pedestrians. And god knows, there are plenty of cyclists who complain of other cyclists on MUPs getting in their way.

BTW, oncoming traffic combined with poor sight lines do a good job at blocking the opposite traffic direction. And rural highways make up most of the Portland Metro area west of the river and they are, by far, nowhere near deserted of car traffic.

When I walk my bike, my bike tells me I'm walking at around 3 mph.
When I ride my bike (easy), my bike tells me I'm biking at around 15 mph.
When I ride my bike (hard), my bike tells me I'm biking at around 22 mph.

To have the same relative amount slowing, cars would have to be going
75 mph when I'm biking easy or
110 when I'm biking hard...

When I walk my bike it says I am walking around 6 mph.
When I ride normal it say around 10mph.
When I ride hard it says around 9mph.
same rules dont aply for everyone.

For me it is a lot more frightening to be going 55mph in a car and have a cyclist in my path, than cruising along on my bike at 12mph and have Ped in my path.

I don't expect peds on general MUPs to follow any set of 'walking' rules. Nowhere is it said they must. No where should there be general laws on how to walk on a path.

But there are certain and specific MUPs that have rules for pedestrian (and cyclist) use. When these are in place and posted frequently (i.e. at every trail entrance) then one should expect they should be followed by ped and cyclist alike. This is especially the case for MUPs that have a delineated bicycle/walk portion. For these pedestrians should never be on the bicycle side.

But these specific cases with rigourous pedestrian rules need to be appropriately applied. Afternoon family walks need to be casual with families and friends walking side by side, kids running around, with no rear view mirrors or constant shoulder checks and 'lane' changing merges required. Of course peds should try and be courteous rules posted or not, it is just that we cyclist can and should not expect them to behave like vehicles do on roads.

Al

Yea, I'm mostly agreeing with you. But motorists are contrained by other motorists, and when one cyclist takes a lane, which most of us do on a regular basis, many times it leaves the motorist nothing to do but wait. Which is precisely what you complain about with peds. Nope, not at all. Cyclists only take one lane at a time. They also stay predictable by travelling in a straight line.

My complaint with pedestrians is not that they take up space. I am of a firm opinion that everybody is entitled to as much space on a shared roadway as is necessary for safety and convenience. If a cyclist needs to take the lane - he's entitled to that. My main complaint is that pedestrians take up WAY more space than that. They basically spread out to take all available space, at all times. I do not complain about waiting, I complain about unnecessary waiting, about chaos.


And god knows, there are plenty of cyclists who complain of other cyclists on MUPs getting in their way. And I'm one of them too. :) In fact, the reason I try to avoid MUPs is because other people - pedestrians, cyclists and rollerbladers "get in my way". Now, "getting in my way" doesn't mean legitimately slowing me down - it means blatantly disregarding any sort of reasonable arrangement for traffic flow on an MUP and endangering everyone around.


But these specific cases with rigourous pedestrian rules need to be appropriately applied. Afternoon family walks need to be casual with families and friends walking side by side, kids running around, with no rear view mirrors or constant shoulder checks and 'lane' changing merges required. Maybe I'm just a freak, but a lot of the times when I go out for a walk around Toronto with my friends/family I get frustrated. My frustration stems from the fact that there are no rules around the sidewalks and I have to concentrate on navigating around random passers-by as opposed to enjoying my stroll and a conversation with my companions. In fact, my companions and I have to shift position all the time, going single-file and moving out of the way to be able to avoid the other humans travelling in random directions all around us. I would find a walk a lot more relaxing if our group could sort of "establish position" and not worry about dealing with everpresent chaos around. Alas, that only happens when the group is large enough so that it forces other people to go around it, which surely is unfair to those other people... It's fine in low-traffic areas and aggravating in busy areas.

In my university days, I was constantly frustrated with pedestrian traffic around campus. There were some narrow passages (due to construction) that were extremely popular and it only took a group of three or four drag-assers to prevent hundreds of students from getting to their classes on time. I won't even mention trying to go in the direction opposite to the general "traffic flow": it was plain painful. Blind corners in campus building corridors were also a mess: you could never predict where other peds would be around there and I witnessed many a collision and many more a near-collision because of that. Of course, those collisions are not fatal or even injurous most of the time, but surely they are not pleasant.

That's what always puzzled me: people get absolutely infuriated when they are driving and a cyclist slows them down for a few seconds - even though the cyclist does it just to be safe, but when they are pedestrians they don't seem to mind other peds slowing them down for a lot longer than that - even though other peds do it simply because they met someone the know and are too lazy or inconsiderate to move their asses a couple metres away to where they can chat without interfering with anybody's movement.

Riding with motorists. Period.