No criminal charges for Oregon drivers who killed 3 cyclists

[noisebeam]

HH - I don't think you should twist and take such a narrow view of Gene's comment on 'flippant attitude' toward driving to suit your well intentioned (and dare I say important) agenda. The reasons for the attitude while they include it, go way beyond 'dumbed' down road facilities and also include considerations such as accident probability*, media portrayal of driving, tollerance for accidents, auto safety equipment, law enforcement and other.

*I think my other catch phrases are descriptive, but what I mean by accident probability is that a one can drive with carelessness and do such things as not fully stop and look on red before turning (or drifting over fog line) hundreds or even thousands of times and thru probability get away with it and develop a comfort zone that not giving a full look (or drifting)is fine and never caused a problem before. But 1/1000 or 1/10000 is just not good enough when life is at stake.

Al

[Helmet Head]

Don't get me wrong, Al. I'm not blaming the flippant attitude on bike lanes alone.

But bike lanes are a symptom of the much bigger problem that I am blaming the flippant attitude on: the dumbing down of our roadways, if you will.

This is immediately obvious to any American who drives in Europe, where the roads demand that the driver pays attention, and to any European who notices how he slips into mindlessness driving on American roads.

[genec]

Don't get me wrong, Al. I'm not blaming the flippant attitude on bike lanes alone.

But bike lanes are a symptom of the much bigger problem that I am blaming the flippant attitude on: the dumbing down of our roadways, if you will.

This is immediately obvious to any American who drives in Europe, where the roads demand that the driver pays attention, and to any European who notices how he slips into mindlessness driving on American roads.

Gee, the roads I drove in France were very much like our roads... with the exception of the fantastic quality of the pavement itself, the very clear and understandable road signs (even in French) and the round-abouts. Heck, they even had bike lanes over there... and even special stop lights for cyclists in certain places. (Paris)

The roads were narrower and the speeds were generally lower, and most of the autos were considerably smaller... at least the ones I saw on the nice hiway from Paris to the south of France and later back to Paris again.

I saw cyclists ranging from locals out doing shopping and moving a just more than a pedestrian pace to local commuters (in traffic circles) to what appeared to be a road club (the latter in bike lanes even). I did not see the propensity for the use of helmets that currently prevails in the U.S., nor did I see motorists driving in an agressive manner as one might see in rush hour traffic in the U.S.

Taxies tended to be the most aggressive motorists, and most of their aggression was illustrated through the generous use of the horn, not in weaving, un signaled lane changes, as one sees here, in the States.

At one point I even saw a Hummer in the streets (in Bandol)... but wondered how in the world it could be parked anywhere as most parking spots were quite narrow. I did not see any other SUV type vehicles. However, small vans were quite evident.

[atbman]

[QUOTE=R-Wells]So you believe that he intentionaly hit the truck?

Where on earth did you get that idea from? Please re-read my post - I said that the act (of driving slap bang into the rear of a largeish vehicle which was displaying flashing lights) was one of criminal negligence. Please look up negligence. You won't find the idea of intentionality anywhere in the definition

The thing I dont get is how some folks seem to think people could be perfect if they just paid more attention.

That's not a bad idea, funnily enough. paying more attention willget you closer to perfect. Or, as arnold Palmer once famously said, "The more I practice, the luckier I get"

[genec]

[QUOTE]
"The more I practice, the luckier I get"

Exactly.

And no one needs to be perfect... but "trying harder" sure would help.

[remsav]

Not quite,it showed that many people couldnt count the times the basket ball was passed and watch for the gorilla.

Watch the video one time and come back and tell us eveery thing you see.

Dont cheat now

That sounds like classical magician tricks that I watched on discovery channel by a university pychology class, in that one they were told to count the cards (misdirection) as he flipped them over one by one but the actual trick was changing the red backed cards into blue. Funny thing was he didn't do any tricks other then having some blue cards in the deck, in the replay you can clearly see the red cards change to blue but initially it seemed like magic.

The driver was obviously distracted or asleep for him to miss a truck with a flashing lights. At least he was smart enough to listen to the insurance company and not admit fault or he'll most likely face some jail time.

[Helmet Head]

Gee, the roads I drove in France were very much like our roads... with the exception of the fantastic quality of the pavement itself, the very clear and understandable road signs (even in French) and the round-abouts. Heck, they even had bike lanes over there... and even special stop lights for cyclists in certain places. (Paris)

The roads were narrower and the speeds were generally lower, and most of the autos were considerably smaller... at least the ones I saw on the nice hiway from Paris to the south of France and later back to Paris again.

I saw cyclists ranging from locals out doing shopping and moving a just more than a pedestrian pace to local commuters (in traffic circles) to what appeared to be a road club (the latter in bike lanes even). I did not see the propensity for the use of helmets that currently prevails in the U.S., nor did I see motorists driving in an agressive manner as one might see in rush hour traffic in the U.S.

Taxies tended to be the most aggressive motorists, and most of their aggression was illustrated through the generous use of the horn, not in weaving, un signaled lane changes, as one sees here, in the States.

At one point I even saw a Hummer in the streets (in Bandol)... but wondered how in the world it could be parked anywhere as most parking spots were quite narrow. I did not see any other SUV type vehicles. However, small vans were quite evident.
You did not sense that drivers paid more attention there than here?
You did not feel that you yourself were less apt to succumb to "minddrift" then you are on our roads?

[genec]

You did not sense that drivers paid more attention there than here?
You did not feel that you yourself were less apt to succumb to "minddrift" then you are on our roads?

In fact I did... to both your comments... but was that due to the road itself... or the fact that I was a visitor.

Regarding the road itself... I honestly did not see any major differences, except the things I mentioned. Narrower, less signage, but clearer meanings, and the usual striping. Limit lines were missing... that perhaps was the biggest single thing.

Bike lanes and traffic lanes did indeed exist.

Edit: Frankly it did seem simpler... and maybe that is exactly what you are alluding to. That the control of the roads here tends to direct a motorist more. It is a subtle thing. And certainly I did not stress over it at all... it was quite comfortable and inviting. I drooled over the roads and the potential for cycling... really.

[R-Wells]

That sounds like classical magician tricks that I watched on discovery channel by a university pychology class, in that one they were told to count the cards (misdirection) as he flipped them over one by one but the actual trick was changing the red backed cards into blue. Funny thing was he didn't do any tricks other then having some blue cards in the deck, in the replay you can clearly see the red cards change to blue but initially it seemed like magic.

The driver was obviously distracted or asleep for him to miss a truck with a flashing lights. At least he was smart enough to listen to the insurance company and not admit fault or he'll most likely face some jail time.

How in Gods name do you know what that driver did or did not do?

You have absoloutly zero factual evidence in the case, and yet you know what happened?

Magic trick?

You watched the video and came to the conclusion that it was a magic trick?

These videos are a common teaching tool to show people they can be distracted, by such things such as having to much focus on one thing, or by having 4oz of beer, or by having to little sleep.

How did you come to the conclusion it was just a magic trick?