Singlespeed & Fixed Gear - i hate UPS

- and people who don't know how to properly package a bike when shipping it halfway across the country.

anyway it's my first post. been lurking awhile, whatever

UPS brought me this yesterday:
http://i30.photobucket.com/albums/c310/ryanemmans/damage009.jpg

the frame was wrapped in a plastic bag and i don't think it was insured. i'd like to get it repaired (more than likely at the expense of the seller, but i haven't heard back from him yet). it's an early 90's cannondale and as you know it is aluminum. suggestions?

ouch sorry mang.

Did you ask the seller to insure it? You may be sol.

If it was just wrapped in bag it's not really UPS' fault.

Can that be repaired? I thought a massive dent like that in alum. would completely **** it. This true? I'm really sorry man. I LOVE those frames so much. I would of had a ulcer if that showed up at my doorstep. Hope you can figure **** out with it.

- AL? don't think it's repairable... you might try emailing cannondale?

- here's an FAQ:

http://draco.acs.uci.edu/rbfaq/FAQ/8e.3.html

quote:

"* Can it be repaired?

Just about any damage to a steel frame can be repaired. Almost any
damage to an aluminum or carbon fiber frame is impossible to repair."

yeah i'm also thinking it's unfixable being aluminum and all, in which case i would have to send it back and get a refund, sadly. i'm trying to keep my hopes up.

I wonder if the seller did something like that on purpose. Did you have pics of the seatpost before he sent it? I'm paranoid though... :D

Also - you may want to take it to a good brass instrument repair place. They might be able to pop it out from the inside - strength wise I have no idea if it would work with Al.

popping it out from inside might be possible. the reason it is difficult to repair aluminum is because it work hardens. that is it becomes brittle when you bang on it and bend it back and forth. this effect can be relieved by heating and cooling the area being worked. this is called annealing. don't know what effect that would have on the factory heat treating of the aluminum tube, if there is is any. but it would be worth trying to do since the dent is in an accessible area of the frame. I guess. I don't like aluminum frames though...

here is a photo from a the auction before i purchased it:

http://i19.ebayimg.com/06/i/08/4a/87/08_3.JPG

there doesn't appear to be a dent here.

i just received an email from the seller saying he only insured it for $100. he said he packed the bike better than the factory would pack it and that UPS is at complete fault. i might ship it back and insure it for the full amount, in which he could take the damaged frame to UPS and get all the money and send it back to me, so neither of us would lose any money. he seems somewhat honest with no intentions of screwing me over. let's hope so.

Damn, that sucks. I would also be seriously bummed if that showed up on my doorstep...Good luck with the insurance plan, hopefully the guy is decent and will help you out.

My Mercier came dented via UPS...
I worked for UPS for a very short time and they are
all good people but the problem is they are on unreasonably
ridiculous timelines as dictated by management. Management times every
process in seconds, from the moment the package arrives at the
destinations hub 'til it gets to your door and they routinely beat people
down for not making the unrealistic standard. Being gentle with
packages could concievably cost someone thier job over time.
Really.
Hope it works out for you...Id be :cry: over that.

That's a good idea with the insurance. Anything worth more than $20 I insure for that reason - ya just don't know.

Good luck!

While I do think that UPS should be held accountable for something they caused damage to, your plan sounds like insurance fraud to me. Just sayin.

While I do think that UPS should be held accountable for something they caused damage to, your plan sounds like insurance fraud to me. Just sayin.

On the contrary. I wholeheartedly endorse that. **** UPS.

I went through a very similar situation with an improperly packaged vintage guitar. It arrived with a crack down the back of the neck-- seller insisted that she'd used enough packing material (two crumpled styrofoam take-out boxes) and refused to give me a refund. She hadn't insured it, though I'd paid for insurance.

I filed a claim with paypal stating the item arrived "not as promised." They read my claim and found in my favor-- as soon as I supplied a tracking number proving that I'd shipped the item back to the seller, they refunded 100% of the item's price.

The seller freaked out on me and left negative feedback, but I got to avoid losing a few hundred bucks on a piece of driftwood. I suggest you do the same if you can't work things out with the seller.


also: the seller in my case wanted UPS to pick up the package for inspection, but I knew if I gave the package up, it'd take several weeks for them to decide, most likely, that it was improperly packaged. In that time I would have lost my right to dispute the transaction w/ PayPal, so I refused to give UPS the guitar and let PP sort it out. Sometimes you just gotta play rough.

bull, wrapping it in plastic ( thickness of a trashbag?) is not better than factory wrapping. what did the exterior of the box look like when it arrived at your house? i've worked at UPS too, and management does make ridiculous demands on deadlines. but i never saw a bike box get destroyed or crushed that would cause frame damage, most had wheel axles poked through the box, which sometimes caused damage to the threads or QR levers and would need new axles, but not that often usually it just didnt look very professional. bike shops knew to expect this more or less and often they packed it much better with extra protection on the axles. and some boxes did fall completely apart spilling the contents on the conveyer lines and in the trucks, it sucked but we would gather everything up and take it to be reboxed. but like i said this doesnt happen that often, most likely because people who do ship packages often know better than to pack a box expecting it to be hand-carried from their door to yours. if you dont know by now, all packages sent through UPS/USPS/FedEx/DHL/etc are put in cargo trailers driven on highways, or cargo holds on airplanes for airmail, then run through sorting conveyors and then put on trucks to be delivered: pack like its going to be manhandled and you're covered, ever watch throwers loading luggage in airplanes? theyre much worse than the package handlers/truck loaders at the UPS plants ive been to. use packing peanuts and thicker or multiple boxes for fragile objects like bike frames, its pretty common sense. a sheet of flexible plastic may help with scratches (good idea) but its not going to do anything else.

My 2 cents... Try talking to MANAGEMENT, not the guy working the desk, at UPS. Be as reasonable as you can. Don't go in mad, and see what they'll do first.

After that, get mad and yell and scream, but it's usually better to start out nice. And since you think the seller is on the up and up, I say get the money out of UPS if you can. Good luck, sorry 'bout your frame.

*edit* Spud makes a good point too. But I still say get the money out of UPS if you can.

i really don't understand how that big ass dent got in such a weird part of the frame. it's not even on the outside of the frame. i don't know. seems fishy. the seller could have shown u a pic b/f the dent, and then sold the frame while trying to blame UPS. not saying UPS might not be responsible. bagels, we'll get through this, u wait and see.

But then why not insure it before shipping it? Weird - unless the dent happened while he was stripping the frame? But again why not insure it?

yeah...how was the box? if not much going on - and seller could have pre-dented that as well - then it looks like seller gave you a pre-dent pic and set you up on the sale. dealing w/ ups could be a major let down - i rarely hear good coming from that. but like stated above - start w/ mgmt and kill 'em w/ kindness. then get mean.

i just received an email from the seller saying he only insured it for $100. he said he packed the bike better than the factory would pack it and that UPS is at complete fault. i might ship it back and insure it for the full amount, in which he could take the damaged frame to UPS and get all the money and send it back to me, so neither of us would lose any money.

That's insurance fraud, homie.

That's insurance fraud, homie.

Yeah it is.

UPS insures anything up to $100 for free, so he didn't insure it at all. How much did the frame cost? did the box look like it sustained any damage that could have caused that dent? (like a big hole right above the dent area? if UPS doesn't see it your way, or if the box is in perfect condition, i'd try to get it out of the seller.

iirc, the auction was for the complete bike...

the box has a huge hole on one side and a hole on the inside cardboard divider that he used to separate the wheels from the frame (he sold it as a complete bike, i only had intentions of keeping the headset, BB and crankset - all suntour superbe pro). from the looks of it, a hub axle punctured the cardboard to cause the dent even though the hubs were taped up with cardboard and individually wrapped. i'll post photos of the box later tonight when i get home.

as far as the insurance thing goes, i see how it's fraud and i'm also somewhat hesitant (it was his idea, not mine). the paypal thing sounds like a good idea though because after all the item did not arrive as described. i'll have to talk to UPS first and see what they have to tell me. i just really want my money back. i'm hurtin' here guys..

My other 2 cents... That just plain sucks.

I work for UPS, loading the trucks in the morning. We are put under pressure its a 4ft wide belt with tons of pacages coming. I load 2 trucks over 1300 pacakages a day. I try to be as gentle as possible but I will admit there are times when i have to be rough. I have found that companies who ship alot, package well. I am not applying faulkt but I think everyone understands if you are ailing a 2000 dollar plasma screen to a friend you will have 6 inches of foam around it won't you? If it was a shippers fault or the seller posting an old pic and taking you for a ride, who knows.

I know it sucks to be f-ed either way speak to the seller, otherwise talk to UPS customer service. Best of luck hope iot works out for you.

A lot of eBayers jip people on shipping. I work at FedEx Kinko's and I don't know how many packages I've taken from pro eBayers who declare nothing for extremely pricey items in order to maximize their profit (they say it costs $50 to ship, but in truth it only costs $20). That's probably why the fellow only put it down for $100.