Singlespeed & Fixed Gear - IRO Mark V fork rake dilema (skids)

So I have an IRO mark V and its a blast to ride. Im getting big into freestyle stuff such as different kinds of skids, leg over the handlebars, 180, 360 etc. A trick that i almost had but was struggling with pulling out of was a 360 skid with one leg over. However, the other day I hopped on my friends newly built pista concept and was able to pull it off no problem, smooth as butter.

Now aside from the obvious fact that his bike is worth 4 times what mine is, and is plain and simple a better bike, we boiled it down to the possibility that the slacked out nature of the IRO might be to blame for the fact that i struggle to pull the skid off as smoothly on my bike, since it would cause me to be less over the front wheel.

1. Do you agree with this diagnosis?
2. If so, what can be done to correct it? (New fork recommendations, amount of rake to eliminate, etc.)

Thanks alot!
-Kia

no, more rake should make it more stable.

the pista is pretty twitchy with much less rake than most other track bikes out there like 28 i think.

Recommendation: Don't build your bike around "skids".

360 skid, what?

i had the same problem when i was learning to bunnyhop volkswagens. my recommendation is get it down on your own ride, then if you do upgrade 360 skids will just be second nature.

no, more rake should make it more stable.

the pista is pretty twitchy with much less rake than most other track bikes out there like 28 i think.

While thats true, the part that made it easier on his bike was not the stability, but rather how easy it was to engage the skid and maintain it. On my bike, it felt as though i was really muscling it to keep it going, which was not a result of the gear ratios as they are extremely close.

Recommendation: Don't build your bike around "skids".

Its not my intention to sacrafice other aspects of the bike in order to be able to do these tricks, but if there is a simple solution, such as a fork with less rake, that will make it easier without making other sacrafices, then why not?

But also, this is something that many people, myself included, are very into and beleive it to be the natural progression of the sport for those who like to think of a bicycle as more than JUST a means of transportation.

This thread is nothing without pictures... err movies.

Yea... Concepts are tight. No biggie.

Advice for the topic? Uhhhh... practice your tricks more on your bike, and you will be able to do them better than if you were on his bike.

This thread is nothing without pictures... err movies.

No videos yet, thats actually going to happen within the next couple of days with a group of us. Here are some pictures for fun though, give you a general idea.

The first is me doing a leg over, 180, seat grab skid on my IRO and the second was taken as i was 180 during one of the successful 360 attempts on my friends pista concept. Photos were taken by my friend Adam Sinding.

Any other suggestions?

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y147/Mrbiz123/Kia/DSC_0004.jpg

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y147/Mrbiz123/Kia/DSC_0099.jpg

Wow... nice bikes you guys have there. Cool pictures too.

IRO are built with a slacky geometry compared to the pista concept, so the tighter your geometry is, the easier it is to skid, do tricks, etc. a fork with less rake and or no rake will help with this if it really worth the money to you.

like, u turn skid or 180 skid?

You skid into a 180 motion. Or 360.

i was thinkin more loop dee loop skid balancing on your nuts on the bars, looks fun in my head...

but i'll never do one. if you get it on video i'd like to see that.

good shirt. real good shirt.

i have never and probably would never do all that fancy skiddin' business... but on the track, years ago i rode my jamie roy just at open sessions. it had road geometery with a 43mm raked fork and i had to fight it to keep it in the turns, while my pista takes turns effortlessly... since you're having to muscle through the skid, which probably has a ton of g force, perhaps the concept has steeper and more aggressive geometry that is more responsive under load than the iro, like what is needed on the track.

either way, i'd like to see some videos of that. those pictures look killer.

good shirt. real good shirt.


siiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiike

Isn't the concept a ton lighter as well? Mine weighs in at 16 pounds flat, and is super easy to do 180 skids on. The IRO pictured there is steel... correct?

So I have an IRO mark V and its a blast to ride. Im getting big into freestyle stuff such as different kinds of skids, leg over the handlebars, 180, 360 etc. A trick that i almost had but was struggling with pulling out of was a 360 skid with one leg over. However, the other day I hopped on my friends newly built pista concept and was able to pull it off no problem, smooth as butter.

Now aside from the obvious fact that his bike is worth 4 times what mine is, and is plain and simple a better bike, we boiled it down to the possibility that the slacked out nature of the IRO might be to blame for the fact that i struggle to pull the skid off as smoothly on my bike, since it would cause me to be less over the front wheel.

1. Do you agree with this diagnosis?
2. If so, what can be done to correct it? (New fork recommendations, amount of rake to eliminate, etc.)

Thanks alot!
-Kia

Kia,

You are right.

I used to fool around riding flatland BMX. The flatland specific BMX bikes always had a much steeper (higher angle) head tube that made front-wheel tricks much much easier.

Here's the proof:

Pista Concept (57cm): 74.5 degrees head tube angle (http://www.bianchiusa.com/07_pista_concept.html)
IRO Mark V (56cm): 73 degrees head tube angle (http://www.irocycle.com/geometry.html)

Here's a possible solution to your problem:

http://www.bianchiusa.com/typo3temp/25333b4a76.jpg

It has the exact same geometry (http://www.bianchiusa.com/07_pista.html) as the Pista Concept.

I'm sure it's not hard to find a Pista Frame/Fork for cheap.

good shirt. real good shirt.

haha, thanks BDM is the ****.



Does anyone have any idea what the rake on the Mark V fork is so I can know what to look for in a replacement? I tried measuring it myself by making a straight line down the center of the head tube and measuring the distance between that line and the center of the front hub and came up with something like 44mm, but who knows how accurate that is.

Here's a possible solution to your problem:

It has the exact same geometry (http://www.bianchiusa.com/07_pista.html) as the Pista Concept.

I'm sure it's not hard to find a Pista Frame/Fork for cheap.

Thats a pretty good idea, I had kind of thought of that, but do you think the slightly steeper head tube angle on the pista and the concept could be the cause of the tighter geometry rather than it being a fork with less rake?

The obligatory quad spoke/disc wheel on the front. Does that serve any purpose or is it soely for aesthetics? I see more and more of those and have yet to find an answer as to why people use them. Especially just on the front.

The obligatory quad spoke/disc wheel on the front. Does that serve any purpose or is it soely for aesthetics? I see more and more of those and have yet to find an answer as to why people use them. Especially just on the front.

They are made of carbon fiber, and thus extremely light. And the biggest difference you can make when lightening a bike is by reducing rotational mass (wheels for instance). So that is the purpose that they serve, and as for the front only, they don't exactly make a consumer version for track wheels because of the added stress.

lighter?

Yo that's a pimpin' Rev X you got up in front. I like it, a lot. I want one for my own fix. :D

Quit lyin' to the man... all us fixies know they just look really ****in' cool and they're not very expensive.

And uhhh... for those who are wondering:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P7Y97wkhsH0&eurl=

guys please be careful with these leg over the bar, seat grab tricks, theres a fine line before it looks like we are rollerblading.

Huh?

Thats a pretty good idea, I had kind of thought of that, but do you think the slightly steeper head tube angle on the pista and the concept could be the cause of the tighter geometry rather than it being a fork with less rake?

1.5 degree difference in HT angle is very noticeable. I would venture to guess that the 28mm fork rake of the PConcept is also shorter than the IRO. Maybe email or call IRO to get the rake value in millimeters (or inches and just convert it to mm).

Go here (http://www.bianchiusa.com/458.html) to see how to measure rake. It is basically how far forward the hub is moved from the "zero rake" point, being if the fork went straight down.

like this:

http://www.energy4life.ch/pics/round/rollerblades.jpg

he was riding a road bike 3 seconds before this picture was taken, tried a crazy skid and POOF, he's rollerblading.

Hahaha.

I'd love to see a video of the 360. Very nice pitcures btw.

exactly

like this:

http://www.energy4life.ch/pics/round/rollerblades.jpg

he was riding a road bike 3 seconds before this picture was taken, tried a crazy skid and POOF, he's rollerblading.

Hmmm. A slippery slope indeed.

eh, i think that rev x's come in around 900g for a front, which is decent. they do have the aerodynamic thing going for them too. i'm not sure if they're that much lighter at the rim (where it counts most) than an open pro. however, i'd never ride one given their history of catastrophic failure, as well as the inability to true it up should it get knocked out of whack.

I'd love to see a video of the 360. Very nice pitcures btw.

Ya i'll definately try to put it up here once we get it within the next week

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y147/Mrbiz123/Kia/DSC_0004.jpg

You should ditch the spinergy for a aerospoke or something ASAP if you are realy serious about taking cycling to the next level in it's natural progression. Putting your extremities that close to one is unbelievably stupid. And more rotational mass in front will make skidding easier.

The obligatory quad spoke/disc wheel on the front. Does that serve any purpose or is it soely for aesthetics? I see more and more of those and have yet to find an answer as to why people use them. Especially just on the front.

basicly the problem with the Spinergy wheels is that they fail, and when they fail it's massive. If a spoke breaks on a 32 spoke wheel, you've still 31 spokes to carry the load of the wheel. when a spoke breaks on a spinnergy wheel it looks like this:

http://web.archive.org/web/20021130092002/http://home.interlynx.net/~pjdu/wheel.jpg

(when this wheel broke, the rider was injured bad enough that he had to retire from racing)

Yeah, I was wondering if I was the only one concerned about putting that sort of lateral force onto a Spinergy.

Yeah, I was wondering if I was the only one concerned about putting that sort of lateral force onto a Spinergy.

with your balls. i'd never advise someone to do it, but if someone decides to on their own, i reeeeealy want to see a video of it.

But also, this is something that many people, myself included, are very into and beleive it to be the natural progression of the sport for those who like to think of a bicycle as more than JUST a means of transportation.

But also, this is something that many people, myself included, are very into and beleive it to be the natural progression of the sport for those who like to think of a bicycle as more than JUST a means of transportation.

But also, this is something that many people, myself included, are very into and beleive it to be the natural progression of the sport for those who like to think of a bicycle as more than JUST a means of transportation.

But also, this is something that many people, myself included, are very into and beleive it to be the natural progression of the sport for those who like to think of a bicycle as more than JUST a means of transportation.


i'm sorry but that is such an amazing quote. If I wasn't oppposed to sigs on principle I would probably use it.

Seriously though that revx is dangerous even if it doesn't fail. The fact that you are doing tricks like with it greatly increases your chance of serious injury.

Also for normal riding less rake will make the bike more stable not less. For your tricks where you appear to be basically sitting on the bars it may the have the opposite effect but who knows. Don't forget that your friend also seems to have a few more inches of his handlebars left then you do.

Hahahaha, nice.

i'm not exactly sure what the progression entails, other than variations on skidding. don't get me wrong, i think it's really cool. however, i wonder if this is coming about because track bikes are less played out than skateboards or bmx bikes.

my brain hurts

He meant it was awesome in it's rediculousness... don't you know dutret yet?

haha, nice save tehz.

nobody mentioned it yet, but the pista concept has a shorter wheelbase than the iro, which would make it easier to throw around. . .this is a result of both the headtube angle AND the fork rake. so swapping forks may help a little, but a bike with track geometry would be better. (compare- its waaay easier to do tricks on a bmx than on a beach cruiser, right?) ps- those pics are awesome.

why not just get a bmx bike? anyways, you have balls.balls.