Even with Lance Armstrong's chain of victories, here in Texas, bicycling is still viewed as:
A children's sport [1].
A way to get around for people either too poor to afford a car, some hippy whose Love Bug is in the shop, or someone convicted of DWI [2].
Now the puzzle... how does one convince people that bicycling is actually as good if not better than hopping in a car or Suburban [3] for various distances, and that it is a valid sports activity, and not just for kids.
[1]: Same with soccer... Only a rare few actually bothered to care about the World Cup other than snickering about the Head Butt of Death.
[2]: Texas is doing some serious clamping down on DWI (recently adding a $1000/year fee for convicted drunk drivers to keep their license), but its still too common, as people do drive without licenses. In theory, after DWI #3, the person gets tacked with felony hard charges.
[3]: Its common to see people hop into their vehicle, drive 30-40 feet, repark, then walk into another shop in the same strip mall.
R-Wells
09-26-06, 04:17 PM
Even with Lance Armstrong's chain of victories, here in Texas, bicycling is still viewed as:
A children's sport [1].
A way to get around for people either too poor to afford a car, some hippy whose Love Bug is in the shop, or someone convicted of DWI [2].
Now the puzzle... how does one convince people that bicycling is actually as good if not better than hopping in a car or Suburban [3] for various distances, and that it is a valid sports activity, and not just for kids.
[1]: Same with soccer... Only a rare few actually bothered to care about the World Cup other than snickering about the Head Butt of Death.
[2]: Texas is doing some serious clamping down on DWI (recently adding a $1000/year fee for convicted drunk drivers to keep their license), but its still too common, as people do drive without licenses. In theory, after DWI #3, the person gets tacked with felony hard charges.
[3]: Its common to see people hop into their vehicle, drive 30-40 feet, repark, then walk into another shop in the same strip mall.
I was with you untill the soccer bit, just not my cup of tea.
If we have to some how connect cycling to soccer i will have to take up hang gliding and give up cyling.:)
What would be the sense in riding a bike 30-40 feet?:D
mlts22
09-26-06, 04:36 PM
I was with you untill the soccer bit, just not my cup of tea.
If we have to some how connect cycling to soccer i will have to take up hang gliding and give up cyling.:)
What would be the sense in riding a bike 30-40 feet?:D
I personally don't keep up with soccer either (not my cup of tea either), but was using that as an another example.
Guess its a chicken and egg scenario here. Until businesses put in support for bicycle commuters, people won't commute, and the other way around... wish I knew something to do (other than the usual advocacy channels), even if its getting a business to install a bike rack.
noisebeam
09-26-06, 04:54 PM
A children's sport [1].
.
I see it being perceived more as an elisit euro doper sport, a sport for arrogant males, a recreational activity for beer bellied old farts, a playground mobility for chlidren and a way for the down and out to get around.
Al
sgtsmile
09-26-06, 04:55 PM
And it is not like Lance was liked in Texass either with the ppl throwing things at him, and him needing an escort by, you guessed it, a chevy suburban....
rando
09-26-06, 04:59 PM
I see it being perceived more as an elisit euro doper sport, a sport for arrogant males, a recreational activity for beer bellied old farts, a playground mobility for chlidren and a way for the down and out to get around.
Al
+1
I think that about covers it...
genec
09-26-06, 05:05 PM
I see it being perceived more as an elisit euro doper sport, a sport for arrogant males, a recreational activity for beer bellied old farts, a playground mobility for chlidren and a way for the down and out to get around.
Al
Sadly all true... so how does the image get changed?
Have a president or two ride bikes around "down home" on the ranch? How about if the winner of seven major annual races focuses on cycling rather than cancer?
Maybe the price of gas has to go so high that moms cycle with their little darlings to school instead of driving the 1/2 mile in the SUV.
How about if one of the major networks put on a show featuring Real Cyclists...
What about if there was a bicycle night at the local Baskin Robbins?
How about if bike racks were installed at the school and Sponge Bob started riding a bike when he leaves the pineapple under the sea.
The real answer is no one thing will do... it has to be a gradual change in society.
Keith99
09-26-06, 05:21 PM
The only way to get cycling accepted in Texas is to start with Mountian (off road) bikes. Once it is made clear that you can use a bike to get rarther off road during hunting season without spooking the game and that a really skilled hunter can even shoot without dismounting then bikes will be accepted.
For the road selling all bikes with insulated panniers for beer would be a good start however.
mechBgon
09-26-06, 05:26 PM
A co-worker also enlightened me that people stereotype bicycle commuters as convicted DUIs. Having started bicycle commuting in grade school, I guess it never occurred to me.
At any rate, my approach, whether it really works or not, is to try to show some class, show the stereotypes are wrong (unpredictable, unlawful, not concerned about others) by following traffic code pretty strictly, making a point of being predictable, stopping for people in crosswalks, saying hi to the dog-walkers, stuff like that. Sort of "ambassador" behavior. Hopefully it's not all wasted effort :)
R-Wells
09-26-06, 05:32 PM
A co-worker also enlightened me that people stereotype bicycle commuters as convicted DUIs. Having started bicycle commuting in grade school, I guess it never occurred to me.
At any rate, my approach, whether it really works or not, is to try to show some class, show the stereotypes are wrong (unpredictable, unlawful, not concerned about others) by following traffic code pretty strictly, making a point of being predictable, stopping for people in crosswalks, saying hi to the dog-walkers, stuff like that. Sort of "ambassador" behavior. Hopefully it's not all wasted effort :)
Whats really bad is now the DUI's are riding bikes around drunk, giving us a bad rep.
genec
09-26-06, 05:36 PM
Whats really bad is now the DUI's are riding bikes around drunk, giving us a bad rep.
Not a lot of DUI cyclists in Spandex.
sbhikes
09-26-06, 06:26 PM
Sounds like a regional problem to me. Lost of normal people ride bikes in Santa Barbara.
noisebeam
09-26-06, 06:38 PM
Sounds like a regional problem to me. Lost of normal people ride bikes in Santa Barbara.
Here too Almost all cyclists I encounter commuting or recreationally are as normal as any random set of folks one would encounter otherwise. My post was about the perception that I perceive some non-cyclists have about road cycling as a sport and transport, with a little bit of exaggeration thrown in for effect.
Al
RocketsRedglare
09-26-06, 06:50 PM
Cycling is pretty much accepted here too. Most people can differentiate between a serious cyclist and some borracho riding his kid's bike on the wrong side of the street or on the sidewalk.
But then there are the "italianos". These arse clowns are the ones that give cyclist a bad rep. The ones that ride in packs usually 4 or 5 abreast, running stop signs, yelling at people to get out of their way. Sad thing is, that they don't see themselves that way.
sgtsmile
09-26-06, 07:26 PM
The only way to get cycling accepted in Texas is to start with Mountian (off road) bikes. Once it is made clear that you can use a bike to get rarther off road during hunting season without spooking the game and that a really skilled hunter can even shoot without dismounting then bikes will be accepted.
For the road selling all bikes with insulated panniers for beer would be a good start however.
Already done: mtn bike magazine reported once (or was it bike mag?) about one of the nicest trail systems to be found in that part of the world was in Waco Texas. It was in a state park in the middle of the city, where the ranger was an avid mtn biker..... it was sort of a mtn bike meca for those who live in the area. I have a hard time supporting the idea of shooting while riding though :D but the idea of them as good off road transport makes sense (since they are of more use often than a powered vehicle)
randya
09-26-06, 07:33 PM
As long as cycling is viewed more as 'sport' and 'recreation', nothing's gonna change. IMO, Lance didn't help to raise the visibility of cycling as basic transportation one single iota.
I-Like-To-Bike
09-26-06, 07:35 PM
Sadly all true... so how does the image get changed?
...How about if the winner of seven major annual races focuses on cycling rather than cancer?
Sad? Are you serious? Or are your priorities that far out of whack? I suggest you refocus on what is important in the greater scheme of real life.
Helmet Head
09-26-06, 07:58 PM
The first thing you should is stop caring about what other people think about your passions and interests.
Caring about what other people think about that is pathetic, and only makes you look pathetic.
And rightfully so, I might add.
R-Wells
09-26-06, 08:07 PM
I think the problem is TV and the Big Screen.
I mean, try to imagine Danny Glover and Mel Gibson chasing bad guys on a Tandem.:roflmao:
Adiankur
09-26-06, 09:12 PM
I would really love to see the action movie where everyone was riding a bicycle. Yes it would be a comedy, but it would still be very cool.
AlmostTrick
09-26-06, 09:41 PM
The first thing you should (do) is stop caring about what other people think about your passions and interests.
Caring about what other people think about that is pathetic, and only makes you look pathetic.
And rightfully so, I might add.
^^^Bicycle advocacy at its finest. :rolleyes:
Like the OP I would also like to change the image of bicycling in my area. Calling us pathetic certainly won't help attain this goal.
Roughstuff
09-26-06, 10:29 PM
Even with Lance Armstrong's chain of victories, here in Texas, bicycling is still viewed as:
A children's sport [1].
A way to get around for people either too poor to afford a car, some hippy whose Love Bug is in the shop, or someone convicted of DWI [2].
Now the puzzle... how does one convince people that bicycling is actually as good if not better than hopping in a car or Suburban [3] for various distances, and that it is a valid sports activity, and not just for kids.
[1]: Same with soccer... Only a rare few actually bothered to care about the World Cup other than snickering about the Head Butt of Death.
[2]: Texas is doing some serious clamping down on DWI (recently adding a $1000/year fee for convicted drunk drivers to keep their license), but its still too common, as people do drive without licenses. In theory, after DWI #3, the person gets tacked with felony hard charges.
[3]: Its common to see people hop into their vehicle, drive 30-40 feet, repark, then walk into another shop in the same strip mall.
Texas, schmexas! Some of our reputation is deserved, some is not.
Racing to me seems an elite affair with almost no spinoffs for us touring guys, or commuters from what they tell me.
Cycling is, like it or not, associated with left wing anti-auto environmentalist wackos. For a sample, look at the politics and religion threads, as well as sneering about 'cagers' and 'fossil fuel' addicts.
You can make a great statement for cycling and safe driving while you are in your car as well as on a bike, by driving more slowly and courteously, and making it a point to share the raod with riders. Everyone talks about 'how can we control traffic' when in fact, when you are in a car, you are in a great position to control traffic for the benefit of cyclists whom you see.
For myself, I find riding to be great advertisement for cycling as recreation and short commutes.
roughstuff
newbojeff
09-26-06, 10:50 PM
I would really love to see the action movie where everyone was riding a bicycle. Yes it would be a comedy, but it would still be very cool.
Why a comedy? I've got a script right here for a hard action movie about a bike messenger who runs afoul of the NSA and international terrorists. Lots of wire-fu type action. The title?? FIXED!!
dauphin
09-26-06, 11:00 PM
I see it being perceived more as an elisit euro doper sport, a sport for arrogant males, a recreational activity for beer bellied old farts, a playground mobility for chlidren and a way for the down and out to get around.
Alwhich part of that is wrong? :D
unkchunk
09-26-06, 11:44 PM
I think that cycling advocates need to distinquish utilitarian cycling from recreational cycling. Sure there is the over lap of the bicycle. But environmental, less cars on the road, and less oil consumed benefits goes to utilitarian cycling, not recreational cycling. That's just the way it is. Driving to the forrest with a mountain bike on an SUV or driving to an assembly point for a group ride with a road bike strapped to the car is... another car on the road. If you want people to drive less, then you have to stay away from Lance Armstrong.
Helmet Head
09-27-06, 01:45 AM
I think that cycling advocates need to distinquish utilitarian cycling from recreational cycling. Sure there is the over lap of the bicycle. But environmental, less cars on the road, and less oil consumed benefits goes to utilitarian cycling, not recreational cycling. That's just the way it is. Driving to the forrest with a mountain bike on an SUV or driving to an assembly point for a group ride with a road bike strapped to the car is... another car on the road. If you want people to drive less, then you have to stay away from Lance Armstrong.
If you want people to drive less, that's anti-motoring advocacy, not bicycling advocacy, and you're in the wrong forum.
cazzooo
09-27-06, 01:47 AM
To Hell with Texas and Bush and Texas Culture
SingingSabre
09-27-06, 03:06 AM
How do I change someone's perception of cycling?
With enthusiasm and a big ol' smile while riding in traffic. I love riding, I know it, and I am not afraid to show it *claps hands*.
tomcryar
09-27-06, 07:35 AM
A co-worker also enlightened me that people stereotype bicycle commuters as convicted DUIs. Having started bicycle commuting in grade school, I guess it never occurred to me.
At any rate, my approach, whether it really works or not, is to try to show some class, show the stereotypes are wrong (unpredictable, unlawful, not concerned about others) by following traffic code pretty strictly, making a point of being predictable, stopping for people in crosswalks, saying hi to the dog-walkers, stuff like that. Sort of "ambassador" behavior. Hopefully it's not all wasted effort :)
I agree 100%. And with what SingingSabre wrote. There are other things we could do, like somebody posted about getting more bike racks (or something safer) installed at more businesses. Little things like this will go aways when dealing with the motorists. As for cazzooo---there are tons of good people (culture) in Texas...........
R-Wells
09-27-06, 08:03 AM
I agree 100%. And with what SingingSabre wrote. There are other things we could do, like somebody posted about getting more bike racks (or something safer) installed at more businesses. Little things like this will go aways when dealing with the motorists. As for cazzooo---there are tons of good people (culture) in Texas...........
Tons of good people?
Thats just 2 of us!
tomcryar
09-27-06, 08:06 AM
mega-tons?? :D
R-Wells
09-27-06, 08:18 AM
mega-tons?? :D
Thats better:)
He can say what he wants about Texas,
I have lots of long, wide roads to ride on,dudes in pickups dont throw stuff at me or try to run me of the road. cause Im one of them and they know I have a pickup with a gun rack too:D
Heck we got dude with gun racks on thier mountian bikes out here.
sbhikes
09-27-06, 08:20 AM
You could switch to recumbents. Drunks don't ride recumbents. Engineers and brainy nerds ride recumbents. Recumbents are expensive, too, so it indicates you probably have a decent job.
DCCommuter
09-27-06, 08:23 AM
Sadly all true... so how does the image get changed?
Have a president or two ride bikes around "down home" on the ranch?
Google "president bush bicycle." The guy spends more time riding his bike than I do.
sbhikes
09-27-06, 08:48 AM
Google "president bush bicycle." The guy spends more time riding his bike than I do.
And if anybody can promote the image of bicycle as a toy for drunks, it's the Prez.
aerodave
09-27-06, 09:19 AM
I guess I don't really care what people think of me when I'm riding. (However, I agree that the DUI assumption isn't as likely for a guy in spandex.) If they think I'm weird, or that cycling is unusual, then so be it. All I care about is that they don't try to kill me.
I-Like-To-Bike
09-27-06, 10:41 AM
You could switch to recumbents. Drunks don't ride recumbents. Engineers and brainy nerds ride recumbents. Recumbents are expensive, too, so it indicates you probably have a decent job.
Brainy? Maybe in your case, others too; but not always. Read BF postings from at least one recumbent fan for the last week or so for confirmation. Do you think any non biker, and probably most other bikers for that matter, have any idea what recumbents cost? I doubt if most ever gave it a moment's thought, much less inquired.
R-Wells
09-27-06, 10:46 AM
I am going to point out that seeing men in lycra is not the reason I enjoy riding;)
banerjek
09-27-06, 10:57 AM
The best way to change the image of cycling is when people see that it's a great way to get around. This morning, traffic was backed up pretty bad for the last 2 miles of my commute. I blew by them. There was no accident or any other problem -- traffic has been slower lately because the sun is in the drivers' eyes.
Shortly after I arrived at the health club where I change, one of the guys I regularly see walked in and said "My wife and I passed you just as you turned onto 22 [about 10 miles away] and you still beat me." Practically all of the route is highway, and all but the last mile of that path (for cars -- I switch to surface streets about 2.5 miles out) has a speed limit of at least 50.
There are many reasons why I ride, but this guy reminded me of one of my favorites :D
noisebeam
09-27-06, 11:07 AM
I really don't think there is an image that needs to be changed. If the intent is to get more folks to cycle, the problem is not image.
Al
Eli_Damon
09-27-06, 11:08 AM
Some people will not be receptive to any of your efforts to change their attitudes. If you want to change attitudes, you should start with those are receptive, namely, people who would like a more efficient way to travel but are not convinced that cycling is feasible. Or people that already ride bicycles but no often or not properly. Try hosting a showing of Ted White's documentary films about cycling or an effective cycling course. Organize a Critical Mass ride. Changing attitudes is a slow and frustrating process. It can't be done quickly or by force.
geo8rge
09-27-06, 11:22 AM
A way to get around for people either too poor to afford a car, some hippy whose Love Bug is in the shop, or someone convicted of DWI [2].
A sceptic would say this is a question of class. Upper classes in general try to prevent lower classes from moving around. In NYC for example a sidewalk infraction (no injury just a cop sees you on a sidewalk) is an excuse to run a check on existing warrents. Needless to say you will not see much bike riding, by locals, when the police are doing sweeps. I bring this up because I think you are being naive about why things are the way they are. With that said if you are serious find out which churches the poor people attend and see if they will let you make a presentation. Remember that a bicycle requires money and knowledge to keep it running. Poor people start of with hard to maintain bikes, don't know how to maintain them themselves, cannot afford to pay others to do it for them, and are more likely to have them stolen.
unkchunk
09-27-06, 11:46 AM
If you want people to drive less, that's anti-motoring advocacy, not bicycling advocacy, and you're in the wrong forum.
Nope. It's part of the dialectic, so it's valid. But if you really want to go down this road to pedanticsm, feel free to let me know. I'm sure we could form a group ride here.
jimmuter
09-27-06, 11:57 AM
The first thing you should is stop caring about what other people think about your passions and interests.
Caring about what other people think about that is pathetic, and only makes you look pathetic.
And rightfully so, I might add.
+1
I know many have knee jerk reactions when they see HH's name on a post, but when you're right, you're right.
SingingSabre
09-27-06, 12:05 PM
Google "president bush bicycle." The guy spends more time riding his bike than I do.
Ah, but he was convicted of a DUI...and, come to think of it, he never drives himself anywhere anymore.
Hmmm...
rando
09-27-06, 02:46 PM
Texas, schmexas! Some of our reputation is deserved, some is not.
Racing to me seems an elite affair with almost no spinoffs for us touring guys, or commuters from what they tell me.
Cycling is, like it or not, associated with left wing anti-auto environmentalist wackos. For a sample, look at the politics and religion threads, as well as sneering about 'cagers' and 'fossil fuel' addicts.
You can make a great statement for cycling and safe driving while you are in your car as well as on a bike, by driving more slowly and courteously, and making it a point to share the raod with riders. Everyone talks about 'how can we control traffic' when in fact, when you are in a car, you are in a great position to control traffic for the benefit of cyclists whom you see.
For myself, I find riding to be great advertisement for cycling as recreation and short commutes.
roughstuff
agreed!
maddyfish
09-27-06, 03:06 PM
Cycling is pretty much accepted here too. Most people can differentiate between a serious cyclist and some borracho riding his kid's bike on the wrong side of the street or on the sidewalk.
But then there are the "italianos". These arse clowns are the ones that give cyclist a bad rep. The ones that ride in packs usually 4 or 5 abreast, running stop signs, yelling at people to get out of their way. Sad thing is, that they don't see themselves that way.
^^^^^These guys are why I can't go on group rides. I stop at lights, and stop signs.
linux_author
09-27-06, 03:15 PM
I see it being perceived more as an elisit euro doper sport, a sport for arrogant males, a recreational activity for beer bellied old farts, a playground mobility for chlidren and a way for the down and out to get around.
Al
WoW! that hurts, because i'm a down-and-out, doping, arrogant male with a beer belly and a child-like attitude of the world!
:-)
p.s. i was kidding about the doping part...
smurfy
09-27-06, 11:53 PM
...and Sponge Bob started riding a bike when he leaves the pineapple under the sea.
I don't think Sponge Bob rides (he does ride the bus, though) but his next-door neighbor Squidward rides a bike that has paddles for wheels but no chain. Must be shaft drive.
Maybe we need to have a movie for the mindless masses like the Dukes of Hazzard but with a bike jumping instead of a Dodge Charger. Maybe a DK General Lee!
tomcryar
09-28-06, 12:11 AM
I don't think Sponge Bob rides (he does ride the bus, though) but his next-door neighbor Squidward rides a bike that has paddles for wheels but no chain. Must be shaft drive.
Maybe we need to have a movie for the mindless masses like the Dukes of Hazzard but with a bike jumping instead of a Dodge Charger. Maybe a DK General Lee!