Mountain Biking - Titanium Bolts question.

Hey,
I'm trying to shed some more weight off my xc bike and I have a few questions about Titanium bolts. First and foremost, are they really worth it? Secondly, I cannot seem to find the ones I am looking for, so I am wondering if they even exist? What I would like is 6 or 12 Ti bolts to replace the standard ones used to mount the rotor to the hub/s on my avid's. Also, if they don't come in a set of 6 what individual ones will I need? Thanks for any help on this!

http://hyperbolts.chainreactionweb.com/catalog/
http://www.racebolts.com/
http://www.tekbolt.com/homepage.html

Don't do it. If you end up with cheap Ti bolts on your brakes, you're asking for trouble. And the weight savings is hardly worth the expense. Crank bolts are a bigger savings, at a lower price. Skewers, bars, seat, and seatpost are the other places to save.

Why are you trying to shed weight? Are you a racer? Or do you simply want a lighter bike because that is the "cool" thing?

Just run three bolts per rotor, that's all you need. And there's no additional cost.

Personally I have left my rotor bolts alone, that is just me though. Some run three ti bolts and three aluminum bolts in their's. Anyway, here is what I did.

Aluminum bolts:
front derailleur clamp, front derailleur cable pinch bolt
rear derailleur pinch bolt
shifter clamp bolts
brake lever clamp bolts
bottle cage bolts
top cap bolt (tighten with steel bolt then replace)
Chainring bolts

The only titanium bolt I went with was the seatpost clamp bolt.

Here is the weight differences between them, not including the chainring bolts.

http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b148/LowCel/bolts.jpg
http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b148/LowCel/albolts.jpg

I have that same scale. As far as hardware goes, depending on the age of your components, you can probably get a Ti pivot bolt for your rear derailleur. A good thing to have, and saves weight too. But Lowcel is right - you won't save much weight.

PM me if you're interested in the spare lightweight bits I've got floating around here.

I have that same scale. As far as hardware goes, depending on the age of your components, you can probably get a Ti pivot bolt for your rear derailleur. A good thing to have, and saves weight too. But Lowcel is right - you won't save much weight.

PM me if you're interested in the spare lightweight bits I've got floating around here.

They also make an aluminum breakaway bolt for the rear derailleur that is pretty nice and light.

Boy I would love to pay lots of money to save another 20 grams off my bike.:rolleyes: Just take a dump before you ride, free weight savings. Have you replaced any braze on bolts you aren't using with plastic ones yet?

Actually I have plastic bolts for my bottle cage bolts (no bottle cage).

As for the dump I do that as well. On top of that I try to watch what I eat a little more closely leading up to a race.

As for the money, some people don't mind spending extra money on things they enjoy. You don't have to like it or understand it.

On a final note, you may want to check your math, it was actually 31 grams. ;)

Boy I would love to pay lots of money to save another 20 grams off my bike.:rolleyes: Just take a dump before you ride, free weight savings. Have you replaced any braze on bolts you aren't using with plastic ones yet?

I don't see any reason to impose your personal budgetary constraints on anyone else, especially since the OP didn't mention cost being an issue.

I pull the braze on bolts and seal the holes with a dab of RTV sealant. I'm not sure of the weight savings vs. plastic bolts though.

As for the money, some people don't mind spending extra money on things they enjoy. You don't have to like it or understand it.
If you are willing to piss away good money on useless stuff then sure. Saving 30 grams WILL NOT make you a better rider period My 33lb "x-country" bike takes me past most of the riders in my area, you know why?

If you are willing to piss away good money on useless stuff then sure. Saving 30 grams WILL NOT make you a better rider period My 33lb "x-country" bike takes me past most of the riders in my area, you know why?

Because you are the man?

Because you are the man?

Yup, we can all only dream of being half the man he is, or at least half the man he "thinks" he is. :rolleyes: One of these days us mere mortals may be worthy of being on the same forum as him, and all of his "vast" knowledge.

If you are willing to piss away good money on useless stuff then sure. Saving 30 grams WILL NOT make you a better rider period

I agree completely, however 30 grams here, 50 grams there, 25 grams over there eventually adds up.

Hey,
I'm trying to shed some more weight off my xc bike and I have a few questions about Titanium bolts. First and foremost, are they really worth it? Secondly, I cannot seem to find the ones I am looking for, so I am wondering if they even exist? What I would like is 6 or 12 Ti bolts to replace the standard ones used to mount the rotor to the hub/s on my avid's. Also, if they don't come in a set of 6 what individual ones will I need? Thanks for any help on this!

They exist... here (http://hyperbolts.com/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=26&products_id=253) :)

Not too much weight savings with the rotor bolts though. When I replaced every bolt on my bike with a Ti or aluminum bolt, the total savings was about 60-70 grams.

PS. I really don't understand the hate to the people who talk about weights. I'd appreciate if someone could explain why.

PS. I really don't understand the hate to the people who talk about weights. I'd appreciate if someone could explain why.


Most people don't understand that it becomes a hobby within it's self. I know that a light bike will make me faster, not necessarily enough to make up positions in a race however sometimes there is only a difference of a few seconds so who knows. I do realize that saving a few pounds, never the less ounces on a bike will not take someone from being a mid-pack racer to a podium finisher. I think that some people believe having a light bike will work miracles, it just doesn't happen.

With that said, most of the time I'm trying to save weight on the bike it is because to me it is fun to have a light, reliable bike. It is a challenge.

Little bits count in large amounts. I apply that to many things in life.

I am not a weight-weenie but I do not get annoyed by what other people enjoy. I'm sure there are many that would question why anyone would spend so much on a bike when any old Huffy Wal-Mart bike would do.

Some people have money....some do not. Why impose your bitter attitude to those who have some to spend on the things they love?

The cold reality is that, in an XC race, a guy who would otherwise be the exact same speed as you WILL beat you by lightening his bike, every time.

I realise that two guys having exactly the same time in a race is unlikely, but why make things more difficult anyways?

But is it worth it? If you are obsessed enough with weight saving, them you have to go the distance: Get a speadsheet, put in the weights for everything, the costs for everything, and the math with speak for itself.

That said, I haven't done any bolt-changing since the 90s.. mostly I just screen for mysteriously heavy parts and try to replace them. There are always a few boat-anchor parts on my bikes that need swapping before I ever start counting things to the gram.

The cold reality is that, in an XC race, a guy who would otherwise be the exact same speed as you WILL beat you by lightening his bike, every time.

Ever lost a two hour race by less than five seconds? I have, it sucks!!!

However, in that case it wasn't a little weight that got me, it was not having the kick at the end that the other racer did. He wanted it more than I did that day, he earned it.

Wow, thanks for all the responses guys, I appreciate it. I think, for now at least, I'll just do the 3 bolt thing for the rotor. Some unexpected problems arised last night that I need to deal with now {couple spokes popped out due to stripped nipples** so I have to cover that first. I will probably end up doing a complete spoke/nipple overhaul. I want to swap out my straight spokes for some double-butted {hey, that saves me like 70 grams per wheel**.

I will probably end up doing a complete spoke/nipple overhaul. I want to swap out my straight spokes for some double-butted {hey, that saves me like 70 grams per wheel**.


You could use titanium spokes!!!!!

Ever lost a two hour race by less than five seconds? I have, it sucks!!!

However, in that case it wasn't a little weight that got me, it was not having the kick at the end that the other racer did. He wanted it more than I did that day, he earned it.
Ah, but should your bike have been lighter, you could've had just the right amount of kick to take the finish. You would've saved energy for the whole race and you may have been enough ahead that his kick at the end wouldn't be enough to take it.

Just think of all the energy you save going up hill on a light bike v. a heavy one.

Of course, everything would've been different though so no way of knowing what would've happen.

Some of us just have extra cash to piss away on bike and other things. I spent over $10k on a camera, not just as a tool for my business, but because I enjoyed owning and using such a precision tool. Others may want to spend money on a big screen TV, which is a waste, in my opinion. I just don't see why people need to be so critical of how others spend their discretionary income. We built a titanium tandem, but I still put food on the table, and a roof over our heads. Get over it.

I don't see any reason to impose your personal budgetary constraints on anyone else, especially since the OP didn't mention cost being an issue.

I pull the braze on bolts and seal the holes with a dab of RTV sealant. I'm not sure of the weight savings vs. plastic bolts though.

I don't think this is the gist. Someone mentioned that there is a general hate for weight weenies. Actually, I seem to think that there is a disdain by weight weenies for bikes that are a couple pounds heavier.

A performance cyclist who is fit and trim and competing has need for a marginally lighter bike that will shave some seconds off his performance. For a recreational cyclists, who use their bike for recreation and fitness, the whole weight shaving thing could be considered an excercise in madness. Why would you spend $500 shaving a half pound off your bike when you could eat right and exercise more to shave a couple of pounds off your ass?

To me the whole bike weight thing strikes as an OCD behavior. We want to catch people before they go over that cliff. We want to tell people that your riding SKILL is more important than the weight of your bicycle. This is kind of the gist of Mountain Biking is that you need technical skill to complete courses. If you neglect this and buy equipment instead to overcome your shortcomings, then you're kind of defeating the whole point of mountain biking. Buy a road bike and stick to paved roads. I guarantee you the road bike will be lighter.

Because you are the man?
Why do you have to take everything so personally? Grab a pipe and lighten up. All I was suggesting is that in MY opinion saving 30 grams by going to bolts that have a lower shear force is stupid. Why don't you just drill holes in the frame? That'll save some real weight.

willtsmith_nwi - huh? I was responding to vw addicts post (which I quoted).

For a recreational cyclists, who use their bike for recreation and fitness, the whole weight shaving thing could be considered an excercise in madness. Why would you spend $500 shaving a half pound off your bike when you could eat right and exercise more to shave a couple of pounds off your ass?

In our case, our tandem was built with S&S couplers so we could travel with it. When your bike is part of your luggage, and you may spend 8 hours a day riding in hilly areas, every little bit helps. Besides, it's heaps cool enough to be used in advertising: http://www.atcracing.com/Extreme/tandem.htm


All I was suggesting is that in MY opinion saving 30 grams by going to bolts that have a lower shear force is stupid.

Perhaps in the case of the brake rotor bolts. But replacing your pivot bolt with anything other than a steel one is a great idea.

Perhaps in the case of the brake rotor bolts. But replacing your pivot bolt with anything other than a steel one is a great idea.
Ummmm, i've seen broken pivot bolts as well. But if you don't mind your bike breaking down in the middle of nowhere with a slim to none chance for a repair than go for it. Replacing strong hardware with lighter stuff to save a few(very few) grams is a BAD IDEA. You guys need to get over your "I am always right" attitude already.

You guys need to get over your "I am always right" attitude already.

So when pretty much everyone disagrees with you they all need to get over their "I am always right" attitude? Maybe you need to look in the mirror before making statements like that.

Just because you don't agree with something doesn't mean that everyone that does is wrong. So you have no need or can't justify the money for a light bike and/or components. Fair enough, don't buy one. Simple enough. I don't have the need for a 45 pound downhill bike, that doesn't mean that I don't see the need for one by others. If they want / need one then good for them. I hope they enjoy it.

Ummmm, i've seen broken pivot bolts as well. But if you don't mind your bike breaking down in the middle of nowhere with a slim to none chance for a repair than go for it.

You do realize that one can always carry spares, don't you.;)

Ummmm, i've seen broken pivot bolts as well. But if you don't mind your bike breaking down in the middle of nowhere with a slim to none chance for a repair than go for it. Replacing strong hardware with lighter stuff to save a few(very few) grams is a BAD IDEA. You guys need to get over your "I am always right" attitude already.

Aluminum derailleur bolts are made to break, so that the derailleur itself doesn't break. If you are in the middle of nowhere, it is easier to carry an extra bolt instead of an extra r.d.

I don't think this is the gist. Someone mentioned that there is a general hate for weight weenies. Actually, I seem to think that there is a disdain by weight weenies for bikes that are a couple pounds heavier.

A performance cyclist who is fit and trim and competing has need for a marginally lighter bike that will shave some seconds off his performance. For a recreational cyclists, who use their bike for recreation and fitness, the whole weight shaving thing could be considered an excercise in madness. Why would you spend $500 shaving a half pound off your bike when you could eat right and exercise more to shave a couple of pounds off your ass?

To me the whole bike weight thing strikes as an OCD behavior. We want to catch people before they go over that cliff. We want to tell people that your riding SKILL is more important than the weight of your bicycle. This is kind of the gist of Mountain Biking is that you need technical skill to complete courses. If you neglect this and buy equipment instead to overcome your shortcomings, then you're kind of defeating the whole point of mountain biking. Buy a road bike and stick to paved roads. I guarantee you the road bike will be lighter.


Weight savings has been a key part of auto racing, motorcycle racing, and bicycle racing since day one. Again, it sounds like a financial constraint for you, and thats too bad, but that doesn't make it wrong for the rest of us who want a light bike. Of course weight weenies have a disdain for heavy bikes.. who the heck wants a heavy bike.

Of course weight weenies have a disdain for heavy bikes.. who the heck wants a heavy bike.

Horses for courses.

http://www.paradigmhosting.net/images/moabaliscious2.jpg

You want a strong bike, not necessarily heavy though.

Would you make the bike lighter if it didn't sacrifice durability?

You want a strong bike, not necessarily heavy though.

Would you make the bike lighter if it didn't sacrifice durability?

High speed stability on rough terrain benefits from a heavier bike. They don't skip around as much. The same goes for a heavier wheelset/tire combo.

There are plenty of folks that want a heavier bike...

High speed stability on rough terrain benefits from a heavier bike. They don't skip around as much. The same goes for a heavier wheelset/tire combo.

There are plenty of folks that want a heavier bike...

...but not many of the fast ones who also consider cornering important.

For resistance to deflection, I'll take suspension over inertia any day.

...but not many of the fast ones who also consider cornering important.

For resistance to deflection, I'll take suspension over inertia any day.

...and with the state of equipment these days, that equals a heavier bike (when compared to the weight weenie, or even "trail bike" offereings).

what about using a steering dampener?

...and with the state of equipment these days, that equals a heavier bike (when compared to the weight weenie, or even "trail bike" offereings).

Pete, first off let me start this by saying I'm not arguing with you or disagreeing. Simply trying to have a civil discussion. For my riding style I benefit from the lightest bike possible, while still being functional. However, that isn't really what this concerns.

Now that I got that out of the way, time for my question. Why is it that a lot of downhill racers try to make their bikes as light as possible, granted that is still in the upper thirty to lower forty pound range. A lot of them will run dura ace derailleurs and cassettes. They will also look for lighter, yet extremely strong wheelsets, tires, etc. I know that weight is not their top priority, however if there are two equal parts from what I understand they will choose the lighter (if price is not a concern).

Because less unslung weight = better handling.

Why is it that a lot of downhill racers try to make their bikes as light as possible, granted that is still in the upper thirty to lower forty pound range. A lot of them will run dura ace derailleurs and cassettes.

Because some courses are pedaling courses rather than pure gravity courses. BTW, folks are running DA derailleurs because they are short cage and have more ground clearance, less chain slap, and they run can a close ratio cassette.


what about using a steering dampener?

A steering damper doesn't give you that planted feeling at the rear tire that a "heavy" bike can give you.


Because less unslung weight = better handling.

That generalization is in the same class as "who the heck wants a heavy bike?"

In my experience a heavy bike will handle better at highs speeds (more stable) than a light bike. It's easy to try this for yourself. Find a steep loose, rocky high speed descent. Ride it with a "normal" set of tires. Then ride it with the same tires and DH tubes. Then ride it with a set of heavier tires and DH tubes.

The handling changes are quite obvious.

Because some courses are pedaling courses rather than pure gravity courses. BTW, folks are running DA derailleurs because they are short cage and have more ground clearance, less chain slap, and they run can a close ratio cassette.


I was aware of the tighter gear ratios and the shorter cage. I guess the weight is just an added bonus to that one then.

Oh, also I do notice the lighter bikes being more sketchy. The rider has to decide if it is worth it for him / her to gain the time on the climbs.

We're obviously dealing with a sliding scale here. "Heavy" is a relative term. Terrain is variable, as is rider ability. I don't think anyone (even the weight weenies in this discussion) wants the lightest bike possible, but instead the lightest bike practicable.

I have to disagree that heavy bikes handle better. They might feel more solid, but I dont think that relates to a better time on the DH racecourse, although it might give a bit more confidence to a novice to intermediate DH rider.

In the example you give, I think the 'handling' difference comes from the higher-volume tires and resistance of the wheels to flex, and would actually make the bike harder to manuver down anything but the straightest, most wide-open course.

I myself spend about equal time on a 23-lb XC rig and a 43-lb DH rig. If there was some way I could lighten the DH rig to the weight of the XC bike without making it more flexy or giving up strength or suspension travel, I probably would*. The guys are winning DH races on the light(er) stuff these days.


* - Without mortgaging my house again.

In the example you give, I think the 'handling' difference comes from the higher-volume tires and resistance of the wheels to flex, and would actually make the bike harder to manuver down anything but the straightest, most wide-open course.

In my example the "resistance of the wheels to flex" remains the same. Same wheel.

Even using the same volume tires, yet substituing a dh tube for a normal tube and/or using a heavier version of the same tire (same volume), you can feel a difference.

It's more stable through corners at high speeds because the gyroscopic effect is greater due with the heavier wheelset...

Why is it that a lot of downhill racers try to make their bikes as light as possible, granted that is still in the upper thirty to lower forty pound range. A lot of them will run dura ace derailleurs and cassettes. They will also look for lighter, yet extremely strong wheelsets, tires, etc. I know that weight is not their top priority, however if there are two equal parts from what I understand they will choose the lighter (if price is not a concern).
JG answered most of this already as far as DHers running road derailleurs. I want to add to that by saying that concern with weight varies by the level of DHer. Pros can afford to be more weight conscious and go for the lighter parts on their rigs because there is a mechanic and a trailer-full of spares in the pits. Us rank amateurs quite often have to make everything last a whole season, so we might make the trade-off for a little-bit-heavier part in hopes that it will last a bit longer. (Like why I finally went to Mammoths this season so I'd quit bending rims.)

There's also something to be said for the spinning mass of a heavier wheelset in its resitance to deflection (think flywheels and gyroscopes). The benefits gained, though, are offset by the increase in unsprung weight. BTW, I saw above a reference to "unslung weight" - -the term is actually "unsprung weight;" and it is a suspension system's nemesis. Reducing unsprung weight (something we learned from our MX bretheren) is the grail that has DHers excited about the possibilities of the new G-Box, V-Boxx, etc. bikes.

I can't think of any race machines that benefit from being heavier. Certainly not a car or motorcycle.

Ummmm, i've seen broken pivot bolts as well. But if you don't mind your bike breaking down in the middle of nowhere with a slim to none chance for a repair than go for it. Replacing strong hardware with lighter stuff to save a few(very few) grams is a BAD IDEA. You guys need to get over your "I am always right" attitude already.

It's not about getting home. There are plenty of bikes made today (including custom frames) that don't have a replaceable hanger. I'd rather walk my bike home, or cut the chain shorter and limp home, than have the hanger break off. And that's why some people prefer to replace the steel ones.

In this case, I am right.