Commuting - HID lights for city use?

With daylight savings time nearing an end, my evening commute will soon be carried out in the dark. I'm thinking about upgrading my lights this year, and have been intrigued by the possibility of using an HID system.

After reviewing previous discussions about HID lights, I am uncertain about whether this would be a good idea. On the one hand, I've read that HID lights do a good job of getting other drivers' attention, and can prompt them to leave plenty of room for the mysterious vehicle they see approaching. That part sounds great. On the other hand, I've read an occasional comment to the effect that HID lights may be too bright to use safely on roads. I've seen a few stories about drivers honking or flashing their brights, apparently blinded by the HID light's intensity. That part does not appeal to me.

In short, I like the idea of being highly visible to rush-hour traffic, but do not like the idea of blinding everyone around me. I live in a city, so there are a lot of other people around whose interests I feel I should take into consideration. What do you think: are HID lights too bright to use in city traffic? Is there some way of adjusting their position so as to make them less irritating to others?

I love my L&M ARC iob the handlebars and a Dinotte on the helmet. Not too bright but I keep it pointed down a little.

HID lights are about as bright as car headlights. That's the point.

Edit: I agree with the points 2manybikes and DCCommuter made below. City riding is the most useful place for HID's.

They are bright but you don't have to look right at them. You can aim any light down if you need too. These lights are on cars too with the same result. People will flash their lights at you, they want you to put on the low beam you don't have. Don't assume they are blinded, it is a highly visible color too, annoying to some.. People will complain it's human nature. I was taught in driver training to look at the right side of the road if bright lights are coming at me.

When I accidentally aimed mine right in a cops eyes at a crosswalk, I apologized.
He said " It's OK............. that light is safer because it's so bright"

.......which is more important to you? ;) :)

Car avoids you and accident is prevented, or you see some glass on the road in time to avoid it.

Guy going the other way does not complain or flash his lights.

The brighter the ambient light, the more light you need to stand out. The background light level in cities is very high. It's that simple.

Same here. I took my old 100 watt light directly to an officer the first time I went out and asked him what he thought. He said, "As long as it is pointed down and does not shine in oncoming drivers eyes it should be OK." Now, with a 50 watter I get flashed every week or two. I just adjust the beam down a little until they pass. On MUPs I put a hand partly over it when I pass other path users and say, "I try to dim my light when I pass people."

I hope it's going to work for me, since I ordered a L&M ARC last week.

I hope it's going to work for me, since I ordered a L&M ARC last week.

After you have used it why don't you post your opinion of it?

After you have used it why don't you post your opinion of it?

Will do.

I use my Nite Rider Flight in traffic and on the trails. 3 levels of HID lighting plus led's. Also use a headmount for cross country skiing!

I use my cygolite HID in town. I have it aimed down so that the center of the spot is about 20 ft in front of the bike (figuring speeds of 10-15 mph) and don't have any trouble with cars flashing brights or anything else. I didn't even think about it not using it in town.

You're worried about inconveniencing someone over your LIFE?
Think long and hard about that one.

You're worried about inconveniencing someone over your LIFE?
Think long and hard about that one.


Now recruiting new members !

On the path I take home from my fiancee's house at night, there is a guy who has a HID that's usually riding around the same time I am. That thing is STUPID bright, to the point where I have to focus on the right edge of the path to avoid looking at it. They have to be great for visibility but wow.. I dunno.

I'm mixed on the subject. I want one for the "stupid bright" visibility, but at the same time being on the receiving end of it kind of (really) stinks.

Go for what you think is best. You'll certainly be visible :)

I too am struggling with the idea current HID models being inappropriate for road use w/ oncoming traffic, caged or not. Are there any models w/ optics that truly limit the amount of light projected above the road, the way automotive headlights do it? Simply aiming it down isn't enough, I don't think.

I don't think the equation is so simple as my life vs. someone else's inconvenience. It's rather finding solutions that are safe and relatively comfortable for everyone.

I've recently started using the trailtech 13 watt HID for commuting. I have it pointed far enough ahead to light the road for 2o-25 mph for the morning darkness. No indication that it's an irritation to oncoming traffic. Don't think it would be safe to blind on coming cars. For the daylight I point it up a bit for increased visibility, again no signs that it's an irritation to others.

I too am struggling with the idea current HID models being inappropriate for road use w/ oncoming traffic, caged or not. Are there any models w/ optics that truly limit the amount of light projected above the road, the way automotive headlights do it? Simply aiming it down isn't enough, I don't think.

I don't think the equation is so simple as my life vs. someone else's inconvenience. It's rather finding solutions that are safe and relatively comfortable for everyone.


All the bulbs come from the same source. No other lenses. With the banking of a two wheeled vehicle you don't want the top of the beam chopped off anyway. When you bank the bike with the top of the beam chopped off it disappears. Some motorcycles have this problem. You are supposed to look at the right side of the road with lights coming at you. The rider coming at you can point it down, eventually it gets to the point where it is not blinding and the rider can see, maybe you could try one, or just demo one in the dark somehow? I have one that is more powerful than one car headlight, it's equal to 65 watts halogen, I can turn it down enough, All you need to do is turn it down and walk out in front of your bike and look at it. And adjust it. No big deal. Most of the 13 watt HIDs have a "low" setting too.
If there is not much other traffic on an MUP path one can put his hand over one side.

If the ground is wet or it is raining and a car is coming right at you , all the power you have will be needed to see a pothole or a bottle. If you commute all the time you should be prepared for that.

What do you think: are HID lights too bright to use in city traffic? Is there some way of adjusting their position so as to make them less irritating to others?

There is no such thing as too bright. Whatever lights you have, make sure it illuminates your path rather than other peoples' eyes and you'll be fine.

If you blind people by aiming your lights in their eyes, they won't be able to see you. Aiming an HID light down should prevent blinding others unless you have a screwball beam pattern.

Whenever you mount your lights, it's not a bad idea to lean your bike against something and look at your work from different distances and angles to make sure that you have achieved the effect you need.

You guys found any good deals on the L&M ARC Li-ion lights? Looking at 600$ here (for non-Ultra version).

Somebody recently posted a link to a site that did a comparison test of different lights against a wall with distance markings on it. I can't remember which thread it was-- can somebody repost that link?

Somebody recently posted a link to a site that did a comparison test of different lights against a wall with distance markings on it. I can't remember which thread it was-- can somebody repost that link?
http://eddys.com/page.cfm?PageID=493 from http://www.mechbgon.com/visibility/active.html :)

Thanks!

Somebody recently posted a link to a site that did a comparison test of different lights against a wall with distance markings on it. I can't remember which thread it was-- can somebody repost that link?

The first page of the "light selection guide" thread has 6 or 7 links to different beam comparison photo pages. Eacxh link goes to a different comparison, not one photo.
Links to just about all lights, prices and relative speed with that light. Not to mention a great explanation of the three types of bulbs and bike light systems. And lots more. It's much better than the recent links posted it's all in one place, including those links. All this light stuff everyone is talking about was covered in this thread last year. And more.

Wow the L&M light sure has an impressive spread. Is the L&M a flood and the NR a spot?

Thanks 2manybikes!

Thanks 2manybikes!


slvoid did 99% of the work in that thing. He did a great job!

Yahoo changed the access to my own beam comparison photos. Just click on the album
"bike light photos" The easiest thing to do is to click "slideshow".

Wow the L&M light sure has an impressive spread. Is the L&M a flood and the NR a spot?

No idea, the NR uses a standard off the shelf glass reflector. L&M uses custom made aluminium reflectors with a custom beam pattern that's much smoother.

You guys found any good deals on the L&M ARC Li-ion lights? Looking at 600$ here (for non-Ultra version).

http://www.performancebike.com/shop/profile.cfm?SKU=17588&subcategory_ID=4320
$350?

They also sell a NR one for $299 now.

You guys found any good deals on the L&M ARC Li-ion lights? Looking at 600$ here (for non-Ultra version).

US$410 @ BeyondBikes (http://www.beyondbikes.com/BB/ItemDesc.asp?IC=AC%2DLIG%2Darcligh)

Use GOTLIGHT to get an additional 10% off until Tues Oct 3.

I ordered the NiMH version.

http://www.performancebike.com/shop/profile.cfm?SKU=17588&subcategory_ID=4320
$350?


Ok you crazy cats, I just dropped $345 on that system (incl 10% off entire order code 6002330 Expires Friday 10/6/2006, and paid for the FedEx Intl shipping vs standard ground).

I'll take some pics when I get it. Wondering how insane am I to spend >300$ on a light... :)

Wondering how insane am I to spend >300$ on a light... :)

Better than spending $410 :).

I'll take some pics when I get it. Wondering how insane am I to spend >300$ on a light... :)


Mid range lights are $500 and up.

High end start about $900

Top end is about $1400.

Not kidding ! Does that thelp? :)


I hope this was just a typo from that page. 2005 ? Probably is.

Sorry, This Item is currently Out of Stock.
We expect to receive it by 02/15/05

Wondering how insane am I to spend >300$ on a light... :)
You won't after the first time you fire it up in the dark......

Ok you crazy cats, I just dropped $345 on that system (incl 10% off entire order code 6002330 Expires Friday 10/6/2006, and paid for the FedEx Intl shipping vs standard ground).

I'll take some pics when I get it. Wondering how insane am I to spend >300$ on a light... :)

Bad news: I f**ked up. The link I sent you, and the light you subsequently bought, is the nimh version.
Good news: You paid $150 less because the lithium ion version is $499.
Bad news: The nimh battery is a few ounces heavier.
Good news: The new lights with the nimh battery come with the universal charger, so for the difference in price, you can buy a lithium ion battery and have 2 batteries.
Bad news: I think they're out of stock on your light.

To give you a preview of what you're in for, here's what the HID looks like compared to some of the lower powered lights.

http://img246.imageshack.us/img246/9981/compilationez8.jpg

Right on.

If you use a helmet mount for your HID, you have a lot of control over where you point it.

It can be really useful for getitng that driver's attention who's about to turn right into your path and who is not looking left before turning. You can quickly light up their world and get their attention before they goof off and run ya over.

Also, there are plenty of cars out there on the road with very bright lights and HIDs, and they usually 2 have of them. So one small HID on a bike is no offense, it's just a small step to evening the playing field.

Right on.

If you use a helmet mount for your HID, you have a lot of control over where you point it.

It can be really useful for getitng that driver's attention who's about to turn right into your path and who is not looking left before turning. You can quickly light up their world and get their attention before they goof off and run ya over.

Happened to me yesterday... :)

Augggghh this thread is torture.

I am kinda lusting after the ARC but that price tag is just too damn hard to justify until I see for myself that lesser lights won't work for my riding conditions. Slvoid , those comparison pics are quite impressive, no denying that, but I just wonder if all that HID is really necessary for streetlit, urban 20-25mph riding.

I think I will have to buy one locally at REI and try it out alongside the cheaper competition (cygolite dual cross) so I can tell for sure if it's worth the dosh.

I received the L&M ARC HID (NiMH) light from Beyondbikes yesterday ($298 delivered). I played around with it at night to get it set up, charged it for about 2 hours, and I used it this morning on my commute.

I thought I would use the handlebar mount, but I went with the helmet mount, and I'm glad I did. Much easier to see what's going on, and as posted above, easy to give the occasional car a heads up that I'm there.

It provides a focussed beam, but I could still easily see around me. I noticed that reflective signs (including license plates) were well lit by the perimeter of the light. I passed a few people walking on back streets, and it seemed like they were wondering what the heck was coming up on them. I was definitely more visible to cars than before, especially in areas where cars crossed the bike path.

I'm happy with the purchase. I'm curious to try it out on night mountain bike rides.

Eric

Bad news: I f**ked up. The link I sent you, and the light you subsequently bought, is the nimh version.
Good news: You paid $150 less because the lithium ion version is $499.
Bad news: The nimh battery is a few ounces heavier.
Good news: The new lights with the nimh battery come with the universal charger, so for the difference in price, you can buy a lithium ion battery and have 2 batteries.
Bad news: I think they're out of stock on your light.


Good news........I just saved money on my car insurance by switching to Geico ! :rolleyes:

Bad news: I f**ked up. The link I sent you, and the light you subsequently bought, is the nimh version.
Good news: You paid $150 less because the lithium ion version is $499.
Bad news: The nimh battery is a few ounces heavier.
Good news: The new lights with the nimh battery come with the universal charger, so for the difference in price, you can buy a lithium ion battery and have 2 batteries.
Bad news: I think they're out of stock on your light.

To give you a preview of what you're in for, here's what the HID looks like compared to some of the lower powered lights.


Good news: I knew what I was getting into on the link and purposely choose the cheaper NiMH for $$ reasons
Bad news: Yeah NiMH is a fair bit heavier and slightly shorter run time... but

Good news: I was hoping they'd be compatible alright - excellent
Bad news: They are out of stock and Ms Customer Service ain't sure when they're back in

Good news: I just ordered them for $287 at BeyondBikes using coupon "GOTLIGHT" (price excludes shipping - we'll see!)
Bad news: Ah, who needs bad news!

Time to go home!

Cheers,
Al.

$287? NICE! That's a great deal!

Ok you crazy cats, I just dropped $345 on that system (incl 10% off entire order code 6002330 Expires Friday 10/6/2006, and paid for the FedEx Intl shipping vs standard ground).

I'll take some pics when I get it. Wondering how insane am I to spend >300$ on a light... :)

Can you let us know how much import tax you have to pay on this.

Sure will. I've been lucky with bike orders recently, I get them delivered to my work address, which is a computer company. Stuff marked "Electronics" oftentimes doesn't get noticed.

And of course you know about chainreactioncycles.com in NI, right? Free shipping to Ireland & UK.

Lets compare price of HID to running two Cateye blinkies on the front:
L&M HID: ~$400, No operating costs for a few years (at least).
Blinkies: Annual replacement @ $30each and new batteries quarterly=$75/year~

If the L&M runs ~5 years your cost is about equal. That's not an un-reasonable proposition, to say nothing of the advantages of having a real light.