taking the lane [Archive]

redden

10-02-06, 01:21 PM

Helmet Head

10-02-06, 01:24 PM

I rarely get passed closely now that I take the lane by default (and only move aside to allow faster traffic to pass when safe and reasonable to do so).

When I used to keep to the right by default (whenever it was safe and reasonable to do so), I used to get close passes regularly.

LittleBigMan

10-02-06, 01:41 PM

CliftonGK1

10-02-06, 02:26 PM

I had someone use the left lane to make a right-on-red because he didn't want to wait behind me in the correct lane. The officer that pulled him over as he rounded the corner didn't think he made such a good decision.

TRaffic Jammer

10-02-06, 02:27 PM

^^^^yea officer^^^^

genec

10-02-06, 02:31 PM

^^^^yea officer^^^^

Yeah, but they aren't aways around... when idiots make bad decisions.

CliftonGK1

10-02-06, 02:32 PM

^^^^yea officer^^^^
This was the same intersection, roughly same time of the morning, where an officer pulled up next to me in the pouring rain and commented about how he was impressed because he could see my bike from 3 stoplights back as he was approaching. Maybe it was the same one...

mechBgon

10-02-06, 02:46 PM

This was the same intersection, roughly same time of the morning, where an officer pulled up next to me in the pouring rain and commented about how he was impressed because he could see my bike from 3 stoplights back as he was approaching. Maybe it was the same one...What kind of visibility stuff are you using? Was it dark?

redden

10-02-06, 03:28 PM

I'd suggest moving more to the left. Some motorists don't realize when a lane's too narrow to share.

I was about half a foot left of center in the lane. Figured if I were any further over I'd be buzzing the cars. This is the 1st time I've had some do this when I clearly had possession of the lane. My other option would have been to go right of the construction cones but that seemed like a bad idea at the time.
Do u ever deliberately weave a little to make yourself look unsteady in the hopes of getting a wider berth?

wheel

10-02-06, 03:49 PM

I was about half a foot left of center in the lane.?

Well I suggest either center of lane or first tire markings on the right leave the rest for buffer.

The point here is not to have enough room for a motor and a bicycle. So the Motor has to move over into the other lane or hit you. This might mean they will still be in your lane and adjecant lane buzzing you.

Bekologist

10-02-06, 03:54 PM

i get close passes by drivers regardless of my lane position- and if i'm too center or left, they pass on the right!

drivers will close pass cyclists, across double yellows, into the face of oncoming traffic.

"close passes in the city,
they pass close in the country,
they pass close all thru the town."

sbhikes

10-02-06, 04:06 PM

I've had people try to pass me on the right, while I was making a left turn from the center of the left turn lane, while THEY were also making a left turn from the SAME LANE!

I believe that many motorists don't have a clue what to do when they see a bicycle in traffic. And that's not for lack of people using good destination positioning, either. I am not the only cyclist by any means who uses destination positioning. And yet there is always someone out there who just doesn't get it.

redden

10-02-06, 04:13 PM

Not sure what destination positioning is. Could u define?

Speedo

10-02-06, 04:27 PM

drivers will close pass cyclists, across double yellows, into the face of oncoming traffic.

Yep, happened to me last Thursday...

'nother

10-02-06, 04:40 PM

2manybikes

10-02-06, 04:50 PM

What kind of visibility stuff are you using? Was it dark?

I knew you were going to say that ! :)

CommuterRun

10-02-06, 04:54 PM

I agree with LittleBigMan. My default road position is the right tire track, but when I take the lane I take the middle of the lane or the left tire track. One thing I have found is that positioning myself in the left tire track tends to make some on-coming drivers a little antsy. As if they expect me to suddenly loose control of the bike and somehow swerve into their lane.

Redden, destination positioning is (in a nutshell) choosing your road position based on your intended direction of travel, i.e., at an intersection, middle of the left turn lane for left turns, middle of a (usually the right, but there can be exceptions) straight ahead lane for traveling straight through, middle of the right turn lane for right turns, etc.

Normally the right most lane for the cyclists intended direction is used. However, there may be exceptions. Such as if turning left with multiple left turn lanes the cyclist may desire to use the left most lane if they intend to make another left very soon. This sort of thing mitigates having to turn, then change lanes to turn again. Road debris may be another reason to not use the right most lane and there are others.

redden

10-02-06, 04:54 PM

Haven't gotten pinched yet as you say, but I occasionally get impatient honks, drivers tailgating me and revving engines, and "Get the #@*$ out of the road!" shouted at me when I yield back the lane (even when there are multiple lanes and ample opportunity for them to pass, it's comical). I suppose I am still missing some critical acronym-based techniques and/or beliefs that are supposed to eliminate this kind of thing in drivers.
I can't see the difference between tailgating someone on a bicycle and pointing a gun at them. Either way your threatening a life. It should be a felony.

Something related to that.
http://tinyurl.com/nvxoy

redden

10-02-06, 04:58 PM

Haven't gotten pinched yet as you say, but I occasionally get impatient honks, drivers tailgating me and revving engines, and "Get the #@*$ out of the road!" shouted at me when I yield back the lane (even when there are multiple lanes and ample opportunity for them to pass, it's comical). I suppose I am still missing some critical acronym-based techniques and/or beliefs that are supposed to eliminate this kind of thing in drivers.

I can't see the difference between tailgating someone on a bicycle and pointing a gun at them. Either way your threatening a life. It should be a felony.

related link
http://tinyurl.com/nvxoy

noisebeam

10-02-06, 05:05 PM

Riding in center of lane will not eliminate close passes, but it certainly helps reduce it. Keep you eye on same direction traffic in your mirror and use hand signals to encourage slowing and/or safe passing.
Al

Helmet Head

10-02-06, 05:08 PM

redden

10-02-06, 06:01 PM

Controlled weaving can help in some situations.

It's what the CHP does on freeways to get motorists' attention and to get them to slow down for a hazard.

It surprisingly effective for increasing passing margins too.

Ya the CHP saved my a** with that tatic when my chain broke on the 101. I was straddling the center divider, seemed like the safest place to be. CHP really seems to be there to protect and serve. Very professional.

genec

10-02-06, 06:23 PM

I can't see the difference between tailgating someone on a bicycle and pointing a gun at them. Either way your threatening a life. It should be a felony.

Something related to that.
http://tinyurl.com/nvxoy

Tend to agree and even the local police feel the same way when a vehicle is pointed at them...

However, neither police nor public tends to feel that way about vehicles "pointed" at cyclists... or driven in an aggressive manner around cyclists. I wonder why?

redden

10-02-06, 06:28 PM

Tend to agree and even the local police feel the same way when a vehicle is pointed at them...

However, neither police nor public tends to feel that way about vehicles "pointed" at cyclists... or driven in an aggressive manner around cyclists. I wonder why?
Sure wish that weren't true. Think it might have something to do with being considered a nuisance on the road. Also the feeling of entitlement to go as fast as possible. I don't drive a car very often but being caught in traffic is incredibly frustrating.

'nother

10-02-06, 08:59 PM

CHP really seems to be there to protect and serve.
Protect and swerve? :p

Bekologist

10-02-06, 09:21 PM

Controlled weaving can help in some situations.

It's what the CHP does on freeways to get motorists' attention and to get them to slow down for a hazard.

It surprisingly effective for increasing passing margins too.

Protect and swerve?

"The Protect and Swerve technique?" Does this mean I have to start riding my bike like i'm traffic calming with a police car now?

Helmet Head

10-02-06, 09:52 PM

"The Protect and Swerve technique?" Does this mean I have to start riding my bike like i'm traffic calming with a police car now?
Only if you want to.

Seriously, if you're in a bike lane and a line of cars is passing you uncomfortably close, get the zig-zag going and watch them instinctively give you some space...

crazybikerchick

10-02-06, 10:40 PM

Ever get pinched when taking a lane. Happen to me last week on Sepulveda Blvd. Construction zone eliminated the shoulder/bike lane, so I took the right lane. Driver in a Honda came within inches. Caught him in traffic and expressed my displeasure. Seemed clueless.
By take the right lane, I assume you mean you are riding in the center of the lane. So either the Honda is straddling the two lanes, or the lane is exceptionally large (in which case you don't need to "take" it). I do find though that sometimes when taking the lane, this irritates some drivers to the point where they will pass within inches by straddling the lane I'm taking and the next one over. Annoying. This is why I prefer riding with a friend, much easier to take the lane with two abreast - there's no straddling the lane now.

Bekologist

10-02-06, 10:46 PM

this thread is about taking the travel lane i think, head. am i supossed to do the drunken sailor swerve, or the police car shuffle? the only time i use that technique in the travel lane is when i want to piss the drivers off.

whatever you say, fire marshall.

vrkelley

10-02-06, 10:53 PM

Do u ever deliberately weave a little to make yourself look unsteady in the hopes of getting a wider berth?

:eek: Bek, it's the 90's all over again! Redden...it's a good way to get creamed.

KnhoJ

10-02-06, 10:55 PM

Ever get pinched when taking a lane. Happen to me last week on Sepulveda Blvd. Construction zone eliminated the shoulder/bike lane, so I took the right lane. Driver in a Honda came within inches. Caught him in traffic and expressed my displeasure. Seemed clueless.
All the time. I think a lot of it depends on where you live and your native species of drivers. I swear I could take the left lane and the right lane drivers would move two lanes over into oncoming traffic to pass on the left.
If the speed difference isn't too high, I'll play tag. An open palm on the trunk lid is worth a thousand profanities. It smacks right through the number one rule of driving a car: Never touch anyone you share the road with. Drivers might threaten to touch each other, (and occasionally succeed by Accident) but only a pedestrian or cyclist has the ability to reach out and touch someone on the road without destructive results.

-In your avatar: Is that an african grey in a cardboard box? May I suggest a nice cage (http://www.calcages.com/)? Might hold up a little better... :D

CommuterRun

10-03-06, 02:18 AM

Only if you want to.

Seriously, if you're in a bike lane and a line of cars is passing you uncomfortably close, get the zig-zag going and watch them instinctively give you some space...
Some motorists use this tactic, too. When pulling a boat trailer in traffic, if the car beside them won't back off and let them change lanes, they start the trailer swaying. 99 times out of 100 the surrounding vehicles will back off and give them more room.

Obviousy, the bigger the boat, the better this works.

TRaffic Jammer

10-03-06, 06:46 AM

Pouring rain.... really pouring, simply took the urban lane all the way to work. One slight asshat, other than that not so much as a horn.

stonecrd

10-03-06, 07:25 AM

There is no solution for stupid drivers. I live in a gated community and when I ride back in there is only one lane I can get around the gate. I always take the lane about 100ft from the gate, however, many times drivers will buzz pass me on the left, swerve in front of me and then stop at the gate to wait for it to open! I then have to hit my brakes to avoid plowing into their back end. I also have a traffic circle before I get to my house that I always take the lane in. If I stay to the right I will frequently get pinched to the curb, I don't care if they honk, wave or shout they can wait.

sbhikes

10-03-06, 07:48 AM

-In your avatar: Is that an african grey in a cardboard box? May I suggest a nice cage (http://www.calcages.com/)? Might hold up a little better... :D
I think birds prefer cardboard boxes. Or bathrooms cabinets. Mmm tasty.

LittleBigMan

10-03-06, 07:55 AM

I was about half a foot left of center in the lane. Figured if I were any further over I'd be buzzing the cars. This is the 1st time I've had some [car buzz me] when I clearly had possession of the lane.
Ya, it's happened to me, too. Sounds more like they're trying to teach us some kind of insane lesson.

At least you have a better chance to avoid a collision where you are (close to center) than if you had no room to move right.

Dang, what farm grows these kinds of fruits?

TRaffic Jammer

10-03-06, 08:25 AM

I was actually left of centre in order to secure my lane this morning. Too much rain and poor visibility to mess around with idiots trying to thread the needle.

zippered

10-03-06, 08:29 AM

over the years i've learned the roads i ride on pretty well. there are some places i *know* are trouble and can anticipate accordingly.

i have to say that taxis are the worst for sharing the road. mind you, i think a lot of that has to do with the fact that i'm perceived as a courier and therefore as some sort of professional daredevil that is accustomed to mixing it up with metal coffins...

so when i take the lane i make sure to keep checking behind myself a lot and if i see a car getting too close, then i stick my left arm out, point, steer to the centre of the lane... oh and pray like hell they don't decide to rear end me.

TRaffic Jammer

10-03-06, 08:36 AM

I AM accustomed to mixing it up with metal coffins...it's them I don't trust on days like this. I don't mind gettin' close as long as I can be reasonably assured they aren't going to wiggle zig or zag. In today's wet and rain, I wasn't taking the slightest chance. Safe distances are the rule, and even I queued up at the lights with the cars, no threading for me today. I was doing loads of shoulder checking and pointing as well.

zippered

10-03-06, 09:06 AM

ditto. well, except for the today part.

i totally push the envelope, but a lot of close calls have made me a bit more cautious, especially in worse weather conditions. the words of the first driver to hit me still ring in my head: "but i wasn't expecting there to be a cyclist at night in the rain" (ok, so some lights and something other than a leather jacket would have helped!)

bottom line is there's a big difference between a bike approaching a car and a car approaching a bike.

oh and i was refering to the drivers that think that just because you ride fast with a certain kind of bike, with lots of gear that they don't have to look out because you're oh i don't know... "used to it" or "crazy and don't care" or "won't get hurt" because you have a bit of foam on yer head...

TRaffic Jammer

10-03-06, 09:22 AM

Oh yea I get that alot and while grateful of the compliment, I will point out to them (when possible) that my skills mean nada if they nail me. If I nail them it's a bit of body work and paint, the other way round it's a funeral potentially. Now while it is very hard to nail me, why tempt it by driving like they do....give me some room and we all get where we need to be safely. Madly accelerating and breaking because there is a bike in front of you..... I'll never understand it.

genec

10-03-06, 09:33 AM

Madly accelerating and breaking because there is a bike in front of you..... I'll never understand it.

Even without the bike, it makes no sense. I think that this tends to happen due to frustration of motorists and the high performace vehicles they have, and which they want to "zoom zoom," but can't, due to the realities of traffic.

But of course there is an ad on their radio right now telling them they are in "the ultimate driving machine... "

TRaffic Jammer

10-03-06, 10:00 AM

Well nothing says city driving like a minimum of 300 horsepower at your big toe.

noisebeam

10-03-06, 10:39 AM

I think that this tends to happen due to frustration of motorists and the high performace vehicles they have, and which they want to "zoom zoom," but can't, due to the realities of traffic.

Maybe for some, but I think it is more to do with mindless (careless, non-engaged, thoughtless) driving. It seems* mentally easier to keep up with the nearest obstical in front of ones vehicle than to engage the (minimal) thinking it takes to drive at at a steady speed.

Note I said 'seems' mentally easier, in reality I think while it takes a different (and slightly more engaged) thought process to drive slow and steady (vs. zoom, brake, zoom) it is actually overall is less taxing to ones mental health as the zoom, brake, zoom does increase stress levels.

Al

joejack951

10-03-06, 10:48 AM

I sometimes enjoy driving in slow traffic because it lets me hone my stay-off-the-brakes skills. I'll try to keep a slow and steady enough speed (while everyone else accelerates/brakes/accelerates/brakes...) with enough distance in between me and the next car such that I never have to actually brake or stop. It makes traffic much more bearable if you never completely lose momentum. Obviously this isn't always possible since no one else seems to be playing the same game usually.

genec

10-03-06, 10:50 AM

Maybe for some, but I think it is more to do with mindless (careless, non-engaged, thoughtless) driving. It seems* mentally easier to keep up with the nearest obstical in front of ones vehicle than to engage the (minimal) thinking it takes to drive at at a steady speed.

Note I said 'seems' mentally easier, in reality I think while it takes a different (and slightly more engaged) thought process to drive slow and steady (vs. zoom, brake, zoom) it is actually overall is less taxing to ones mental health as the zoom, brake, zoom does increase stress levels.

Al

I agree with your comment on over all less taxing... as this IS what I do in bumper to bumper traffic... So that being the case... why do motorists do just the opposite?

Along the same lines... when traffic in front of you is moving at say 40MPH on the freeway... why do motorists drive 65+ to get to line up behind the last car?

That one has never made sense to me... watching drivers tailgate, pass, zoom to tailgate again... just makes no sense at all.

noisebeam

10-03-06, 11:26 AM

why do motorists do just the opposite?

The reason I think it is done is this is the behavior one gets from mindless driving, in which case the instinct that takes over is the closer one is to ones destination, the faster one will get their.

I've noticed that folks on cell phones are the worst offenders of tailgaiting mindlessly and zooming to fill gaps.

When I drive in stop and go traffic I find it quite relaxing to just cruise at 10-15mph, let a (often signifcant) gap develop in front of ones vehicle and let that buffer colaspse and expand as traffic ahead stops and gos. It can be a game sometimes to too see how long one can sustain a slow and steady speed while others zoom to 30mph, stop hard, zoom, repeat all around you. Sure some drivers will fill the gap you leave ahead, but that makes no difference to ones steady state progress.

Al

stonecrd

10-03-06, 11:51 AM

When I drive in stop and go traffic I find it quite relaxing to just cruise at 10-15mph, let a (often signifcant) gap develop in front of ones vehicle and let that buffer colaspse and expand as traffic ahead stops and gos. It can be a game sometimes to too see how long one can sustain a slow and steady speed while others zoom to 30mph, stop hard, zoom, repeat all around you. Sure some drivers will fill the gap you leave ahead, but that makes no difference to ones steady state progress.

Al

This of course is one of my annoyances. Traffic can be moving at a reasonable 20-30mph rate, however, some people don't want to risk stopping so they leave large gaps which when multiplied means people are traveling even slower the farther behind they are. This then causes people to try and overtake and fill the gap causing braking further slowing everyone down. If everyone kept up with traffic and just kept just a car length or two depending on speed between them then overall traffic would flow better.

noisebeam

10-03-06, 11:54 AM

This of course is one of my annoyances. Traffic can be moving at a reasonable 20-30mph rate, however, some people don't want to risk stopping so they leave large gaps which when multiplied means people are traveling even slower the farther behind they are. This then causes people to try and overtake and fill the gap causing braking further slowing everyone down. If everyone kept up with traffic and just kept just a car length or two depending on speed between them then overall traffic would flow better.
Actually thats not true in the situation I was describing (true stop and g, not slow 20-30mph). In fact if everyone drove at a slower but steadier rate, the road could hande more, not less traffic. In true stop and go there is no option to overtake and fill gaps.
Al