General Cycling Discussion - Happy Fourth!

http://pages.prodigy.net/jonrutherford/4thbear.jpg

Watch out for those SUV's!:)

That's a cute picture JonR. :) Is he/she a friend of the bear shown as your avatar?

For those of you who may be sweltering in the heat, maybe this will cool you off.

Sorry but I haven't figured out how to paste the picture in my message.

Ron

Here's a happuy 4th July to all of the American contingent in the forums (about 98% of you...heheh).

I still think you'd have been better off under British Sovereignty though... discuss...

Anyone for a few bars of "God save the Queen...?"

Have a goodun!!! :thumbup:

Rich :D

Originally posted by Rich
Here's a happuy 4th July to all of the American contingent in the forums (about 98% of you...heheh).

I still think you'd have been better off under British Sovereignty though... discuss...

Anyone for a few bars of "God save the Queen...?"

Have a goodun!!! :thumbup:

Rich :D
You know Rich I think you are right. At least it would be better than the yahoo we call president now!

All Hail King George the 2nd!

and that is a very cool picture, and I don't beleive in youthful indiscretion, thats full of craft....

Originally posted by RonH
That's a cute picture JonR. :) Is he/she a friend of the bear shown as your avatar?


Ha! I love that snowman, poor guy.

If you want to put an image right in the message, when you're composing the message, use the "IMG" VB tag. It has to point to someplace on the Web where you store images, not your own computer.

I don't know if that bear is a girl or a boy. He/she resists all attempts at physical examination and bites and snarls fiercely, despite the bland exterior. It has never spoken to the avatar bear. I guess they're pretty much loners.

This should hit home!
http://www.geocities.com/grace24u/4thofjul.html

God bless America!

God bless the whole world!

God bless us, every one! (Even that little snot nosed Tiny Tim!)

That is quite a grand Site, Long Live America

hunter--thanks for the great site. This melting pot of the world is the crown jewel. God bless her and keep her!! Happy fouth to all and long live BFC!!! Ride long and Prosper. Stan.

I can't stand people who use patriotism to legitimize their religious beliefs. Do they think we forgot that the reason we're here in the first place is to escape from religious persecution and to win separation of church and state?

Originally posted by mwmw
I can't stand people who use patriotism to legitimize their religious beliefs. Do they think we forgot that the reason we're here in the first place is to escape from religious persecution and to win separation of church and state?

mwmw, I pondered whether to respond by private message or on the forum. I chose to respond here, because I think you echo a common thought in today's society.

I'm not sure anyone was trying to "legitimize their religious beliefs", at least not Hunter. Besides, "God Bless America" was written and has been around quite a while. :) I think the author of the web page was simply trying to express his or her gratitude to God for the gift of a country that allows the freedom to "speak freely" and live our lives with our faith integrated into the whole of our lives.

Religious beliefs don't need legitimizing by government anyway. The founding fathers of the United States were mostly quite strong believers and left Europe so they could live, walk, and talk their faith without persecution. Unfortunately, our country has taken separation of church and state to mean that you can no longer speak freely without being labeled a lunatic. We hear so often to not discuss politics or religion. I think that is true to the extent that those discussions ARE sensitive. But if we leave those two VERY significant areas out of our communications, we all lose because they are SO important to our lives!

While this is a bike forum, we humans do not compartmentalize our lives into little boxes. Besides, God won't fit in a box anyway! ;) It is natural for our beliefs and what we hold dear to spill over into all that we do. Some people get excited about a new bike, or a new experience, or the Fourth of July...would that we all got excited about God in our lives.

As for me and my house we will serve the Lord...then I'm a patriot. I don't think God needs legitimizing through patriotism, but He desires all of our hearts. :)

Alpha Geek,
VERY WELL PUT!!
I too thought about a response, after reading your's I will.
I was not a A.G. stated trying to impose religon on anyone here. Neither do I think the person who built the site was. However to address some of the points that mwmw brought up.
This country (U.S.) was founded to escape opression of the King of England. The people who established this country on paper, wanted a republic. A country that is operated by representation, by a majority vote. Not the Monarchy of government they had with the King of England.
The seperation of church and state is an often misconstrued phrase. It does not mean the church is seperate from the state. It means the state has no jurisdiction in the church. The state cannot make policy in the church, or interpret GOD's word as it fit's the state. Since the King off England at that time controlled the church, there was persecution, at the level of Bible interpretation. This however was not the only motivation for the succesion of this country form England.
Patriotism is defined as one who loves his country and upholds it's interest. Having said that one does not have to have faith in GOD to qualify. As a matter of fact the word "patriot" is not in the Bible.
Am I a patriot of the US? Yes absolutely! Should my faith in GOD be grounds for my level of patriotism? NO! My faith in GOD is seperate from my patriotism. Just like there are other's who share the same faith, in different part's of the world, they are patriot's of their own country.

Alpha Geek and Hunter--VERY WELL put. there are those who say this country is sliding down hill. After reading both your posts I am assured that quite the contrary is the truth. There are people of character all over this great country!! We are blessed to live in this country. The lord is my shepard. ride long and prosper. Stan.

To return to the OP, our bike club's Happy Fourth didn't have to look out for SUVs, it was the tractor-trailer rig that sent five of us, spread out over two miles, off on the shoulder or into the ditch. The president of the trucking company has been innundated with phone calls and email, so we'll see how happy the driver's Fourth will turn out to be.

To return to the hijack, I can assure Stan that atheists like me do have a complex and ingrained system of morality, have a sense of honor and duty and responsibility, and think character is important, independent of my views on the separation of church and state.

Happy B-Day, USA.

UncaStuart--with a batting avg. like that you know it was deliberate. I'm glad no one was hurt. Often times when a big rig traveling at speed gets real close, they actually create a vacumn and tend to "pull" you in before blowing you off the road. Anyway, that has been my experience.
If you would like, post or mail pertinent info and I'd be glad to send an email to this carrier also. Perhaps we could get several BFC members on board.
To disagree on views and respect are not mutually exclusive(think i said that right) What i'm trying to say is I respect your view. ride long and prosper. Stan.

UncaStuart, I'm very sorry to hear of the mishap you five cyclists experienced. If it had just been one cyclist affected, I might think it was an unavoidable thing--after all, big rigs aren't all that maneuvarable.... But spread out like that--doesn't sound good. Please let us know any further developments.

Stan: Ride Long and Prosper to you too, sir. The love of bicycling is a big tent and I'm sure we can all fit under it with mutual respect. Thanks also for your words of support. As you and Jon noted, the fact that many cyclists were affected spread out over a few miles indicated that it wasn't accidental, but rather a specific disregard (or even antagonism) for cyclists. More information: as we straggled into the country store/deli that was our lunch stop, what did we see there but the truck, unloading cases of soda! Once a few of us had compared notes that it wasn't an isolated case for each of us (after all, with the number of miles we put in, we each have a number of close calls per year), one of our number went to the driver to explain (politely but firmly) that his driving had put a number of people in jeopardy. The response was "I don't give a f**k." So the next day, the 5th, our guy called the transportation director for the trucking company (who turns out to be a bicyclist) and gave him the license numbers of the truck and trailer, and followed up with a (once again) polite but firm email. We shall see what comes of this. I shall keep you posted.

Hope you get some results on this UncaStuart...

The guy who gave you guys grief deserves to be pulled down a peg or two.

Cheers

Rich

Originally posted by UncaStuart
So the next day, the 5th, our guy called the transportation director for the trucking company (who turns out to be a bicyclist) and gave him the license numbers of the truck and trailer, and followed up with a (once again) polite but firm email. We shall see what comes of this. I shall keep you posted.

I love it! What goes around comes around. Lets hope the director gives a lesson in cycling etiquette to our big rig bozo.

Another point: if the cyclists were reasonably close to the right edge of the road, then this truck driver had to violate the law, for he must either pass them safely or wait behind them until it is safe to pass without endangering anybody. Under normal circumstances it can never be legal to force somebody off the road.

UncaStuart, you guys must have used a lot of self restraint, especially with the response that guy gave you, in not getting into it with him.

I admire you for that, and let's hope your way of dealing with this gets results. That guy deserves to have his license lifted (if he has one!), or worse.

Originally posted by aerobat
That guy deserves to have his license lifted (if he has one!), or worse.
Glad to hear that opinion, aerobat, for I was thinking as I wrote the post above, that he probably ought to be sent to prison for recklessly endangering people's lives. Certainly it's happened to many, and for less.

UncaStuart--Your postings are articulate and diplomatic, very statesmanlike. Have you considered politics? You'd get my vote.

The government of the United States is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion.
George Washington

Hey UncaStuart...good job making contact with the trucking company big wigs. I have often sworn I was gonna write a letter to a retailer or restaurant that annoyed me and have actually done it alot less often. Ya' gots to hate that the transportation director is cyclist!;) I would have figured you'd get a polite "we'll look into it" but, if the director rides...who knows!

Originally posted by JonR
Another point: if the cyclists were reasonably close to the right edge of the road, then this truck driver had to violate the law, for he must either pass them safely or wait behind them until it is safe to pass without endangering anybody.
So true. Ordinarily I ride within 6-12 inches of the fog line and maintain a steady position so as not to surprise overtaking motorists. The stretch of road involved in this incident is a ridgeline mountain road where the shoulder pavement disappears and reappears on a whim--so normally I stake my claim to my rightful piece of asphalt and have no problem with the swarms of motorcycles who frequent this wonderful road (Skyline Boulevard in the Santa Cruz Mountains between Los Gatos and San Mateo, for those of you familiar with the San Francisco peninsula), or the the pickups of the mountain folk, or the BMWs of the Silicon Valley folk. And certainly I am not bashful about taking the lane when I deem it would be foolish to leave enough space that a car might figure it can squeeze by without crossing the line. However, a glance in my mirror (never leave home without one™) as I heard the engine of the truck gave me enough information to make me choose to cede my lawful place and take refuge on the shoulder, which, luckily, existed on this part.


Originally posted by aerobat
UncaStuart, you guys must have used a lot of self restraint, especially with the response that guy gave you, in not getting into it with him.
The rider who talked to the driver and who contacted the truck company was certainly restrained, considering that last year his wife came within a hair's-breadth of being killed in a similar situation: they were riding their tandem when a dump truck forced them onto a gravelly shoulder. The bike skidded out from under them and his wife bounced off the rear wheel of the dump truck, getting deep bruises that matched the bolt pattern on the wheel. A split second earlier and she would have been under the wheel.

Sometimes I think, all this happens to us and we still ride! But I can't imagine my life without being able to swing a leg over a bike. My wife, who, bless her heart, has to trust me as the captain of our tandem when things like this happen, still organizes her life to ensure that we get enough miles in during the week. Things would certainly be more gray, dull, and flaccid without a bicycle ride to straighten things out.


mwmw: You are too kind, thank you. Knowing a number of local and national politicians, and the character that propels them, I will not adopt the easy jaded pose many take to besmirch public servants; however, I know that isn't where my talent lies, considering how indecisive I am when my wife asks me what movie we should go see, or even what route we should take on the tandem. Plus I haven't recovered from coming in second in the voting for Sophomore class vice president in high school!

Rich, AlphaGeek, J.R., thanks for the support!