Touring - Let me dream

Maybe the summer after next I want to tour to Colorado to see some relatives and friends maybe keep on doing some long distance tours after that one. Is there such thing as a steel frame touring bike with disc brakes? What should I look for I am in the dreaming stage right now

Maybe the summer after next I want to tour to Colorado to see some relatives and friends maybe keep on doing some long distance tours after that one. Is there such thing as a steel frame touring bike with disc brakes? What should I look for I am in the dreaming stage right now

I can't think of any off hand. Generally speaking, however, disc brakes and racks/fenders don't make for a good combination. You can put a rack on a disc equiped bike but it's usually not a simple operation. All of the available space has been taken up by the disc caliper and the mounting tabs on the bike. I have a cyclocross bike I just put fenders on that has disc tabs and the tabs themselves provide interesting challenges. If I had calipers in the mix, I'm not sure I could mount either racks or fenders. There's lots of solutions to this problem but none of them are nearly as good as a regular rack mounted to the frame.

There are other issues about touring bikes and discs to consider. First is the dish on the rear wheel. Now you have a wheel that is dished on both sides. The attack angle of the spoke is steeper which puts more stress on the spoke head. This could make the wheel weaker. Might not, since the forces are now more balanced between sides but my money is on a weaker wheel.

Also, if you break a spoke...on either side...you might have to remove the disc to replace it. Means carrying another tool and keeping track of some rather small bolts that aren't easy to find if you drop one in the grass nor would they be that easy to replace in Bumchuck, ID.

You are now riding on a front wheel that is dished. Dishing makes the wheel weaker. You might be prone to breaking front spokes too. Having replaced my share of spokes in the field, I'm not going to volunteer to replace more of them ;)

Finally, I'm not sure that discs are all the necessary anyway. I've ridden my share of high mountain roads with screaming descents on loaded bikes that only have cantilevers. I never felt that they weren't enough to stop me. Me and gravity like each other very much and I take every opportunity to get the most out of the relationship :D

Thanks for the insight. Are cantilever brakes the better way to go?

Thanks for the insight. Are cantilever brakes the better way to go?

Depends on whether you are using brifters or barend shifters. With brifters (Shimano STI), you can use cantilevers or, with some futzing, v-brakes. I was never that impressed by the travel agents route for v-brakes. If you have barend shifters, you can get road levers that are v-brake compatible. I haven't tried those.

If you go with a flat bar, you can use either.

for the ideal touring bike which one brifters or bar end shifters?

for the ideal touring bike which one brifters or bar end shifters?

Personal choice. I like brifters for which I shall be consigned to the fires of Hell! (According to some people;) ) Others like barends but they are just Neanderthals (according to some people ;) )

Honestly one doesn't have a clear advantage over the other. I never like barends because they are constantly getting bumped when I stopped and I would out of gear to start. I was never fond of reaching down to the drops to shift...it just felt ackward. In my experience even downtube shifters were easier to use. But barends allow for friction mode if your bike is out of adjustment or the index shifting goes wrong...not a common occurence but it can happen.

Brifters, on the other hand are right where your hands end up most of the time anyway...at the brake hoods. They are easy to use and intuitive. They require little or no effort to make the shift. But, everything...and I mean everything...has to be perfectly aligned! If the cables are sloppy on either front or rear derailers, it's gonna complain. If the derailers are off, it might not make the shift or it might skip or just be a total PITA. I am overstating a little. If something goes wrong with the shifter...again not a common occurence...you don't have friction mode. You might be stuck riding a 3 speed or a 9 speed for a ways until you can get it fixed.

And then there is that problem with brakes. Brifter will only work with cantilevers or v-brakes with adapters. Barend will work with cantilevers or directly with v-brakes, depending on your lever choice. Cantilevers are good brakes but not the simpliest to get adjusted properly. V-brakes are good brakes too but you have to have special levers.

Try bikes equiped with both and you can decide. The Trek 520 comes with barend. Most everything else I've seen comes with brifters

What things should I look for in a ideal touring bike crank size chain wheel size sprocket size

Personal choice. I like brifters for which I shall be consigned to the fires of Hell! (According to some people;) ) Others like barends but they are just Neanderthals (according to some people ;) )
OK, I have barends on two road bikes, two cyclocross bikes and my touring bike. They're OK on the road bikes and they work OK for cyclocross RACING. But they sort of don't work well for me on the Touring bike or for recreational offroad cross work.

That's because I don't hear all that good and when there's any noises I can't tell if I'm dragging gears or not. Also I discovered that when I'm climbing those LONG SLOW STEEP AND LONG AND DID I MENTION LONG hills with cars racing by trying to see how close they can come to you before your blood boils, you don't want to take your hands off of the brake levers to shift.

So while I prefer barends because they're simple, cheap and effective I will no doubt change over to Brifters soon on the touring bike.

If you look at touring bikes as a class, these guys and the pro-brifter message are in the minority. So if you are being swayed by the numbers, that's how they run.

On the practical side, brifters are highly reliable until they break down. They are designed to take a huge number of shifts, in racing conditions, and they should provide you with huge reliability until the party is over. From that point on you will wish you had something more fixable. But a lot of people probably don't cover the terrain to reach that point.

The other reason for not wanting brifters is that a touring bike has a wider range of gears on it, and the average properly configured touring bike often comes with an even wider range of gears since they can't know who is going to buy it. So you get something like a 26, 36, 46, with an 11-34 in the back. Now what that kind of range lacks is the sort of spacing that makes rapid shifts appealing, You have some wide gaps in there and you have less reason to shift back and forth like a grasshopper on a hotplate, than yo have with a tightly stacked road set. Also you can end up on the kind of highway that rolls on at 4% for 40 miles, not like poping up and down on single track with rapid fire shifting. On the other hand, if you set up your cogs for a lot of double shifts you may want something like a brifter.

If you can find a steel frame with a 1.125" stearing tube, you can buy the Nashbar steel touring fork. I know at least one custom builder who uses them, they work fine. They are about 40 bucks if you stack all the coupons on them, and you can run a front disc with then. The front disc is all you need since it will do most of the stopping for you.

So there isn't anythign wrong with brifters, if they suit your reliability needs, the terrain you want to cycle and your wallet, go for them.

I like brifters does anyone carry extra parts like bar end shifters just in case?

Some people mount downtube shifters and carry cables so they can recable if necesarry. That would probably be an easier fix.

If you like Brifters then I wouldn't worry, if they are in good repair they will probalby see you through. Worst case you will be hugely inconvenineced and learn why some people like barends. But there are lots of things that can go wrong. Just build the bike you want and hope for the best.

You can mount a rear disk and rear Tubus Cargo or Logo racks and a front disk and a Tubus Tara racks on an Co-Motion Americano frame. The Old Man Mountain Sherpa works too, but makes taking the wheels off a pain.

If you look at touring bikes as a class, these guys and the pro-brifter message are in the minority. So if you are being swayed by the numbers, that's how they run.

I would say that brifters or barends are in the majority or minority. I have no data on it and, I suspect, neither do you. I will say that barends are in the minority in production bikes, however. Of the readily available touring bikes i.e. the ones you might see in any bike shop - Cannondale, Trek, Jamis, Fuji, Bianchi, REI, etc. - only one has barends. All the others are Shimano STI equipped.



On the practical side, brifters are highly reliable until they break down. They are designed to take a huge number of shifts, in racing conditions, and they should provide you with huge reliability until the party is over. From that point on you will wish you had something more fixable. But a lot of people probably don't cover the terrain to reach that point.

The delicacy of brifters (or any shifter for that matter) is overblown. Shifters can fail just like any other part on a bicycle. But they don't fail that often. I've only ever had one shifter in 26 bikes and probably 40 different shifters fail. I've replaced lots of shifter to upgrade but not due to failure. Also, if a shifter is going to fail, it's just a likely to fail near home as it is out in the middle of nowhere. I don't know about you but I put lots more miles on my bikes...all of them... within 50 miles of home than out on the road.


The other reason for not wanting brifters is that a touring bike has a wider range of gears on it, and the average properly configured touring bike often comes with an even wider range of gears since they can't know who is going to buy it. So you get something like a 26, 36, 46, with an 11-34 in the back. Now what that kind of range lacks is the sort of spacing that makes rapid shifts appealing, You have some wide gaps in there and you have less reason to shift back and forth like a grasshopper on a hotplate, than yo have with a tightly stacked road set. Also you can end up on the kind of highway that rolls on at 4% for 40 miles, not like poping up and down on single track with rapid fire shifting. On the other hand, if you set up your cogs for a lot of double shifts you may want something like a brifter.

All I have to say is...Huh? I have a touring bike with a range of 46/34/22 and a rear cluster of 11-34. My 105 STI and my Tiagra before that shifted it just fine. Just because the shifters work well with close gear ratios doesn't mean that it won't work well with wide range. That's more a function of the derailer than of the shifter.


If you can find a steel frame with a 1.125" stearing tube, you can buy the Nashbar steel touring fork. I know at least one custom builder who uses them, they work fine. They are about 40 bucks if you stack all the coupons on them, and you can run a front disc with then. The front disc is all you need since it will do most of the stopping for you.


There's also the Surly LHT. But the caveat for all bare frames is that they are going to be far more expensive then a built bike. If you have mechanical experience, a wad of cash and know what frame fits you, you can build a great bike. If you don't have the mechanical experience, the wad of cash or aren't sure of the fit, go to a shop.

I like brifters does anyone carry extra parts like bar end shifters just in case?

The only spare parts I carry on tour are extra tubes (3 per bike), a couple of spare master links, some spare spokes, and zip ties. I make sure my bike is in good condition before I leave. I ride the bike hundreds of miles before I go, train with weight on the bike (I use rice in my panniers), and listen for stuff that might be wrong near home so I can repair it easily. Do not do any major repairs or rebuilds the night before you leave. Do not buy or build new wheels the night, or even week, before you leave!

Also take the best tool you have with you ...your brains! If something goes wrong, use what you have at hand to fix it long enough to get you to the next bike shop. Lots of stuff can happen out there but that doesn't mean that it will happen.

If I were touring in remote areas, I might carry more stuff. But for you, a trip to Colorado from the "middle of nowhere" really isn't that remote. If you were to break something really important, UPS is only a day away.

UPS is same day if you pay the big bucks. I will look at the comotion frame I am looking at something I can build up over a while I like doing these type of projects I have all sorts of projects I want to do. I would like to do such as transfer my MTB parts to a soma hard tail I would like to build up a cross check some day. I think this is the going to be the most rewarding for me. I like the built in Spoke holder on the LHT talk about handy.

UPS is same day if you pay the big bucks. I will look at the comotion frame I am looking at something I can build up over a while I like doing these type of projects I have all sorts of projects I want to do. I would like to do such as transfer my MTB parts to a soma hard tail I would like to build up a cross check some day. I think this is the going to be the most rewarding for me. I like the built in Spoke holder on the LHT talk about handy.

If you are stuck in Pomeroy, WA 300 miles from the start of your tour and 300 miles from the end of your tour, that one day is an eternity ;) Would be even worse if you were in Eads, CO or any of around 1000 podunk towns that I can think of. Next day UPS is only for emergencies however.

"The delicacy of brifters (or any shifter for that matter) is overblown. Shifters can fail just like any other part on a bicycle. But they don't fail that often. I've only ever had one shifter in 26 bikes and probably 40 different shifters fail."

In other words if you buy 40 sets of shifters, they turn out to be durable. I suppose these aren't all personal units there are different family members here. Still it's a far cry from one person going around the world, (or the person who wants that grade of component just to avoid hassle on much shorter trips). Gets back to my point, brifters are race proven and will probably shift the first 10K times as well as anything, as long as you enjoy fritzing with the brakes and adjustments. So for the annual holiday, no problem.


"All I have to say is...Huh? I have a touring bike with a range of 46/34/22 and a rear cluster of 11-34. My 105 STI and my Tiagra before that shifted it just fine. Just because the shifters work well with close gear ratios doesn't mean that it won't work well with wide range. That's more a function of the derailer than of the shifter."

I didn't say they wouldn't work, I said they aren't necesarry. With wider gear spacings I have found myself riding in essentially the same gear for the afternoon, or that's the way it feels. Compare that to the city where I shift up and down agressively at every light and stop sign. I"m not saying a person shouldn't prefer to use them anyway

HS who has been living on his bike for 50 years has a three speed gear hub. I doubt even Lanc could have won with a 3 speed gear hub. It's race tech and it isn't necesarry on touring bikes though it may be desireable.

Also, for consistancy, when warning about the cost and technical difficulty of a ground up build, shouldn't one also mention that brifters are costly and techical to sellect and maintain also?

"There's also the Surly LHT"

Doesn't run discs.

In other words if you buy 40 sets of shifters, they turn out to be durable. I suppose these aren't all personal units there are different family members here. Still it's a far cry from one person going around the world, (or the person who wants that grade of component just to avoid hassle on much shorter trips). Gets back to my point, brifters are race proven and will probably shift the first 10K times as well as anything, as long as you enjoy fritzing with the brakes and adjustments. So for the annual holiday, no problem.

No, that 40 sets is mostly for me. Some were Shimano, some were Suntour, some for mountain bikes and some for road bikes. I've owned 28 bikes total since I started riding seriously. Some of the shifters were changed because of technology changes - friction to index, 5 or 6 or 7 or 8 or 9 speed changes (don't you just love Shimano :rolleyes: ), Suntour going out of business, Thumbies to Rapidfire, etc. Others were changed because I wanted a higher level of components...Ah Vanity! Thy name is Stuart! :D

The only one that failed for me was on my daughter's bike and that was because a cable jammed in it and I couldn't get it to function after I got the cable out. It was just easier to get a new shifter.

I wouldn't say that it's a far cry from a person going around the world by bicycle. Day-to-day riding puts just a much strain and wear on parts as going around the world, it's just easier to fix stuff that goes wrong at home. Those 28 bikes have a combined mileage of 90k miles on them in all kinds of conditions. That's a lot to ask of parts.


I didn't say they wouldn't work, I said they aren't necesarry. With wider gear spacings I have found myself riding in essentially the same gear for the afternoon, or that's the way it feels. Compare that to the city where I shift up and down agressively at every light and stop sign. I"m not saying a person shouldn't prefer to use them anyway

With the shifters right at my hands, I tend to shift more often for minor adjustments to terrain. Because I don't have to reach down to shift, I'm more likely to change gears for uphills (mostly) and downhills. I just find I shift more often with the shifters right there.



Also, for consistancy, when warning about the cost and technical difficulty of a ground up build, shouldn't one also mention that brifters are costly and techical to sellect and maintain also?


Costwise, brifters are a little more expensive that barend/brake levers but the difference, at the Tiagra level anyway, is modest. A barend/brake lever is going to cost around $120 +/- $30 while a set of Tiagra STI are going to cost around $160 +/- $10. Sora is even less than that. 105 and Ultegra are much more expensive.

As for set up, they aren't any harder to maintain or adjust than barends. I've found all of mine to be very simple to set up.

Lotta people out on teh n. Tier this sumemr with discs. mainly Surlies or one-off customs.
I'd rather have v's myself. Easier to have serviced anyhwere and more than enough power.
I love my Dia-Compe levers with Avid-Sds and some bar-end shifters.

I like brifters does anyone carry extra parts like bar end shifters just in case?

The bike I brought last year came with brifters. I hate the things, but I also have an issue with my right hand and can't feel the little lever. So I put some old fashioned friction shifters on sideways in a complicated fashion within reach of my left hand, without leaving the handlebars.

Should they fail, the brifters are still on the bike, I could always reconnect the brifters in an emergency.


About disks, I have seen some bikes set up with a front disk only, and still retaining the canti bosses for rack mountings on the front fork. Also good to bolt a spare canti brake on in case the disk has problems.

I like that Idea of the downtube shifters I could mount some on here with the clamp on style.Put brifters on instead of the brake levers and bar ends. Then mount some brake levers like the interupt style. On cyclo-x bikes but have them only operate the cantis. I like that they use a tandem wheel on the back to stop wheel breakage. The only justifications for disc brakes in my mind is that I would like to have the utmost control over a bike which is fully loaded going down a steep hill. I haven't been over a hill were if you use your canti brakes to much it will over heat the rim causing the tube to go flat. So if I operate it via a disc brake system I should be okay

http://www.co-motion.com/graphics/americanoCP.gif

So I prefer brifters as well, but I've only done light touring so far (support vehicles, credit cards, etc). I've considered that a spare set of downtube shifters and cables might be on the supplies list if I went for a long, unsupported tour. They are pretty small and light. Other things I might carry: extra chainring bolts, extra master links, ... I'll have to make a list. Hmmm.

Campy brifters are repairable. I've never opened any myself but I've read instructions and while a clean-room isn't necessary you aren't going to fix-em at the side of the road either.

Since Colorado doesn't have water I haven't considered disk brakes. I've always wondered why I never see front disks with read cantis or Vs. Rear rack problem is solved and the read disk seems unnecessary.

I'm not sure this helps you much, but to theoretically answer your question: yes. The practical issues? Well, Dawes Sardars are extremely rare to get hold off stateside, and are only sold in the UK. Another potential issue is that the Sardar only comes with the 26" wheels. I have one with Avid road discs, and love it. I did have to make my own rear rack brackets to avoid disc caliper interference, but it wasn't too much of a problem (at least for me). I love my disc brakes by the way, and wouldn't want to go back to non-discs -though as I've posted before, good v/canti brakes with pads are more than adequate anyway.

Nobody has said mix and match yet. Discs get in the way of rear racks. I have an Axiom rack for disc that is supposedly rated at 100 lbs, but it's nothing but a pain. It is not as stiff because of the eccentric link and moves a lot, even with a 30 lb load. You certainly don't need the braking power in your rear wheel anyway. Even with a loaded tourer, the front brake has the primary stopping power. That said, put a cantilever brake on the rear. I do like the front disc, expecially on rainy commutes. I'm currently building a front wheel around a Shimano DH-3D71 generator hub for commuting and touring. The lights available are quite bright - you may need to suppliment with HID or something if riding long distances in the dark, but it's nice to know you don't have to worry about batteries on a long tour with the generator hub. I love brifters since I spend most of my time on the hoods and can shift/brake easily without moving my hands. It never occured to me to worry about shifters failing before. If this occured, you could manually change gears to get where you need to go for parts. Isn't the diversity of opinions great! Dreaming for the next year will prove just as rewarding as the acutal experience.

I looked at the comotion website and it said I can get only front disk. I like what you guys are talking about rack getting in the way.It is true that the front disc is the most important in stopping power. So I can just canti the back and save some hastle. Thanks for the opinions I wonder if the LHT has a front disc fork. That will work with it the generator hub is a awesome idea as well I wonder if I can get solar panels to power the laptop talk about touring in luxury.

"With the shifters right at my hands, I tend to shift more often for minor adjustments to terrain. Because I don't have to reach down to shift, I'm more likely to change gears for uphills (mostly) and downhills. I just find I shift more often with the shifters right there."

Right but take a mega cassette, its got a 24(6) and a 34 for the steep terrain, I don't know about you but I just am not moving the levers like window wipers. I agree with your shifting strategy, I'm just not sold on this particular application. Also, there are are times when one is in the drops or tops, and I think I have as much convenience in certain postions as i would with brifters. One of my favorite positions with a crosswind or quartering wind is one hand on the hood and the other low, it changes things up and kinda stretches that part that can get stiff in the back, 50% chance of nailing the shifts (granted the reverse is not much of a bargain). Also, I use this position on hills where the terrain dictates a lot of shifts and I am perfectly comfortable as long as I can spin.

I used to have bar ends back in the 10 speed days, and then more recently 100% MTBs with the shifting options they offer. When I was contemplating going back to bar ends, I really wondered whether I would be able to handle the shifting convenience. I just haven't found it a problem. I guess we are both saying the same thing.

One tactical problem I have taking US advice is that the whole country has room service, everything is so near, you can get stuff that takes me two weeks, if at all, overnight or just a few days, took me about 4 months to get a pair of Paul brakes. This is hardly the middle ages up here in Can. but I am just not going to get replacements. There is not one single pace like Spicer or Nashbar or Bikeman in the country. And you can call every bike shop in the city area of about 10 million and not find some rather simple stuff like a 13-34 cassette, or a chromo rack. In honesty, in downtown Toronto finding a brifter is actually pretty easy. Once I get two days out of town, my options are fix it or fold it, in most cases.

In the US there are shifter/brake options around, even at Rivendell for under 100 and if you shop at more discount places you can beat that by a fair amount. I'm not sure most serious opinion supports the idea tiagra brifters can beat the simpelr bar ends for reliability.

And then a further point is that when you go for straight road levers you have a lot of choices you don't have with the Shimano Brifters, whether relative to brake compatibility comfort, etc...

Another point would be that if you go the Rohloff route, the brifter or barends are out, and a people still seem to cough up the dough and make do with the convenience liminations. For some reason touring brings out the desire for extreme reliability over extreme convenience. It's possible the US has got beyond that, but not everywhere has. The technology is presumably going to get more reliable and more convenient, so at some point there should be some convergence happening.

Brifters with a few thousand miles on them, a couple hard landings and no complaints. Wouldn't have it any other way. Wife's bike is similar, a couple thousand miles, a couple hard & soft landings and no problems. Spending all this time debating the merits of brifter durability doesn't seem worth the time if you're not leaving the US or even Canada. First, what are the odds? Someone's bound to have their own anecdotal story, but really, what are the odds a brifter is going to bust on you? Even if that remote chance did occur, what are the odds you have no means of getting a new one relatively quickly in the US or even Canada? If you're on a long-distance trip, what's a 1-2 day hold up for shipping? Surely you have planned rest days and a couple contigency days on a big tour, or you can get to a town or shop with the help of strangers. If you were going to travel to second world or third world areas, then this discussion becomes applicable, otherwise I fear it does nothing more than cause undue consternation on new tourers.

I completely agree. Sure brifters with more parts are going to be less reliable, but what is "less reliable"? I've cycled thousands and thousands of miles on brifters with nary a complaint or problem. As I've posted on another thread, I wouldn't change out my brifters for the world -except if I happened to be going on a tour of Outer Mongolia or similar where if they did break, I'd be in more trouble.

Practically speaking to me, brifters give you advantages in shifting and hand control that no other current road bike shifters provide you, plus more than reasonable reliability. To each their own, but for where I tour I just don't see any need to change to a shifter that provides less hand and shifting control (and please, don't tell me that isn't true -why do you think pros use brifters and not barcons or downtubes?) for an increase in reliability that is not (for practical intents and purposes) a difference maker.

I'm not saying non-brifters are bad or that they don't work, just for me brifters make so much more sense.



Brifters with a few thousand miles on them, a couple hard landings and no complaints. Wouldn't have it any other way. Wife's bike is similar, a couple thousand miles, a couple hard & soft landings and no problems. Spending all this time debating the merits of brifter durability doesn't seem worth the time if you're not leaving the US or even Canada. First, what are the odds? Someone's bound to have their own anecdotal story, but really, what are the odds a brifter is going to bust on you? Even if that remote chance did occur, what are the odds you have no means of getting a new one relatively quickly in the US or even Canada? If you're on a long-distance trip, what's a 1-2 day hold up for shipping? Surely you have planned rest days and a couple contigency days on a big tour, or you can get to a town or shop with the help of strangers. If you were going to travel to second world or third world areas, then this discussion becomes applicable, otherwise I fear it does nothing more than cause undue consternation on new tourers.

This is how I got the friction shifters on to replace the brifters. I can change both gears with the left hand, without leaving the bars. I usually ride on the hoods, and the top shifter is the rear. The brifters are there for the brakes only.

http://www.bicyclewa.com/shifters4.jpg

The full article I wrote with the necessary modifications is here http://www.bicyclewa.com/bikestuff/?p=22

I looked at the comotion website and it said I can get only front disk. I like what you guys are talking about rack getting in the way.It is true that the front disc is the most important in stopping power. So I can just canti the back and save some hastle. Thanks for the opinions I wonder if the LHT has a front disc fork. That will work with it the generator hub is a awesome idea as well I wonder if I can get solar panels to power the laptop talk about touring in luxury.
You can charge your laptop batteries off the generator hub as well with a little electronic tinkering. Rollup solar panels are available but plenty pricey for the good ones. LHT doesn't have a disc front fork standard, but finding a steel front fork with disc mounts is not difficult. Since your still in the dreaming stage, ask Surly, they would probably do a special order with disc mounts on the LHT fork. Just make sure the rim and lacing pattern on the front wheel are set up for disc brakes, the forces in the wheel are significantly different than a rim brake setup. Now that picture of the Co-motion is something to dream about!

"what are the odds a brifter is going to bust on you? Even if that remote chance did occur, what are the odds you have no means of getting a new one relatively quickly in the US or even Canada?"

To me this is the internet, everything seems different here. When I plan my next bike changes here, a lot of details I never really notice on the road seem very important. Out on the road the single most important thing after comfort, is that the stuff doesn't break. Do you guys hear yourselves talking: I'm not sure who said it above but the idea that it's OK to spend one's layover days waiting for brifters is pretty ridiculous. In the real world, any part that causes you to take a multi day pit stop you are never going to have on your bike again.

"and please, don't tell me that isn't true -why do you think pros use brifters and not barcons or downtubes?"

Maybe because they have spare bikes? Show me a touring pro who uses them. There may be someone, it would be interesting to hear what they say. Race cars use paddle shifter because they go around the gear box at every turn and there are a lot of turns. But it's not required for my F-150. In pro racing they don't walk home if the gear breaks, and the fact is you have to be at the same level as all the other riders, even if your gear fails periodically, you have no chance of winning without competitive gear. They can have brand new gear for every race or season if they want. It's maitained by very good techs at every stage. That isn't touring.

Even leaving personal preference aside, I don't say one shouldn't run brifters. My main claim is that they aren't necesary where I ride. A good example was the ride I took into Cornwall, Ontario last year. I did a really big day's mileage because the Hwy slopes barely perceptibly in the direction I was going, and I had a tailwind. I barely had to shift all day. As I got to withing 10 miles of my destination the Hwy paralleled a nice bike trail. so I pulled onto it. Well no sooner had I started down this paved trail than it started to go up and down very steeply over short intense hills. With a full load on I was instantly flailing the gears trying to keep up with this roller coaster. As soon as I could, I got back on the road. I use the MTB equivalent of brifters off road without argument because I just couldn't handle the rapid changes without. But most loaded touring is on roads were this is not relevant so simplicity has won out.

I do ride my touring bike around town but mostly I keep it for touring. Around town I would certainly prefer brifters. So probably that is another factor: are we talking about pure touring bikes, or compromise rides.

So if you need them use them. But there is a design spiral and it's rare to find things that are better in every way.

"and please, don't tell me that isn't true -why do you think pros use brifters and not barcons or downtubes?"
Maybe because they have spare bikes?

Sorry can't resist, then why don't they have spare bikes with non-brifters on then? The reason they use brifters is because they have been found to be the best for retaining control and shifting gears -if they weren't, they simply wouldn't be ubiquitous in the pro circuit. It's true that pro riders aren't going to be stuck out in the middle of nowhere, but that's the reliability issue that has certainly been addressed to my satisfaction through experience and riding.

That raises some good questions though;it would be very interesting to find out how long pro racers use top of the line Shimano or Campy brifters, and the reliability reports. Would they throw away DuraAce brifters simply because they were old? Or do they part them off to training bikes and only use brifters that are within a time frame of being new in races? Do 100,000 mile one-previous-pro-racer brifters end up on ebay? Anybody know?

But I think we both agree, it's horses for courses -whatever you prefer.

Do you guys hear yourselves talking: I'm not sure who said it above but the idea that it's OK to spend one's layover days waiting for brifters is pretty ridiculous. In the real world, any part that causes you to take a multi day pit stop you are never going to have on your bike again.

It was me, I fess up. No, waiting an extra day because a brifter failed is no way to spend a touring day, BUT, again, I stress what are the odds? I can pack 2 spare tires in case two tires shred, but what are the odds? I don't carry a spare bottom bracket because what are the odds? I read of rack struts failing once in a blue moon, but I don't take a spare rack. Going on a big tour? Fine, if your brifters have 6,7, 8,000 miles on them, replace them. Going outside North America or way into the boonies for an extended time? Fine, Consider downtubes or bar-cons. Failed to plan for contingencies for all the other things that can go wrong besides brifters? Fine, consider a switch.

I just think all the fuss over brifter reliability does more to put irrational fear in new tourers than is justifiable.

why do you think pros use brifters and not barcons or downtubes?

They use barcons on time trial bikes (talk about needing precise shifting) and Lance Armstrong used a downtube shifter on his climbing bike. The reason they use brifters is to shift from the hood and deep in the drops.

Barcons aren't much less efficient or convenient. I like having a friction shifter for the front deraileur. I also like that my brake levers don't move lateraly (what a stupid design). I like being able to shift several gears in a single motion. I ride on the bends so I'd have to move my hand to shift, regardless of shifter type. It takes a fraction of a second to move to the rear shifter, while the other stays on the front brake.

For instance the LHT has the posts for down tube shifters I could just mount down tube shifters and carry cable and keep on riding?

I like that Idea of the downtube shifters I could mount some on here with the clamp on style.Put brifters on instead of the brake levers and bar ends. Then mount some brake levers like the interupt style. On cyclo-x bikes but have them only operate the cantis. I like that they use a tandem wheel on the back to stop wheel breakage. The only justifications for disc brakes in my mind is that I would like to have the utmost control over a bike which is fully loaded going down a steep hill. I haven't been over a hill were if you use your canti brakes to much it will over heat the rim causing the tube to go flat. So if I operate it via a disc brake system I should be okay



With that bike, the cable stops are brazed on so mounting a clamp would be more difficult but possible. But don't over think the whole mess. Touring is about adaptation more then anything else. Be prepared for disaster but don't carry a whole bike shop with you just because you expect disaster. Drivetrain failure isn't that common an occurance, even on very long tours. If you shifter breaks out in the field, just adjust the derailer to a single gear and use the other shifter to adjust for terrain. If you chain breaks, just carry a spare masterlink and make it into a one speed. If your frame breaks, carry zipties and a knife, fashion a splint from a tree branch and ride to the next town. Rims can overheat if you ride the brakes all the time but if you use them judiciously, you can come off some very steep mountains and never have a problem.

Your best tool is your brain but don't overuse it...you'll get a cramp ;)

Thanks for the help I think the LHT is the best way to go especially if I could get the Nashbar fork with it that supports disc

Shemp, I completely blew the casing on my Schwalbes, which I gather is pretty rare, bad stuff happens. I agree brifters are pretty reliable gear. But let's just assume someone asks the question "which is more reliable?". Seems like it would be useful if there was an answer. Then people can choose their own course, which is what it;s all about.

Erik. You added a few new ones to my list. Cool.

word on the street is that both curt goodrich (http://www.curtgoodrich.com) and tom kellogg (http://www.spectrum-cycles.com/index.htm) are now regularly building strong steel forks in the newer 1.125" size. you would have to reach them to verify for certain.

2 year old thread....

edit: deleted as I'd posted before

Didn't see that till I posted! D'oh!


2 year old thread....